Poll

Whats Your Background?

Ashkenazi
12 (34.3%)
Sephardi/Mizrahi
5 (14.3%)
Convert
1 (2.9%)
Gentile
17 (48.6%)
Mix of Ashkenai & Sephardi
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?  (Read 7497 times)

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Offline White Israelite

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2010, 02:20:11 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


Maybe it's out of shame or something, I know a lot of people from like India and Pakistan pretend they are from Mexico because they don't like their culture or background. It's so weird hearing someone from Bombay say "Yo Esse!"

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2010, 02:20:34 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


hehehe.  Yes, really.  Your comment reeks of it (I bolded the key, telling parts).  It sounds like you have some irrational need to reinforce your own practice or your own decision, or else to promote that particular choice among others.  What are you so worried about?

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2010, 02:21:09 PM »
Here is a discussion of the differences of Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews...


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/ashkseph.htm

Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews

Level:  Basic

The pages in this site were originally written from an Ashkenazic Jewish perspective, but they are currently being rewritten from a more universal Torah viewpoint.  Ashkenazic Jews are the Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe.  Sephardic Jews are the Jews of Spain, Portugal, North Africa, and the Middle East.  The word "Ashkenazic" is derived from the Hebrew word for Germany.  The word "Sephardic" is derived from the Hebrew word for Spain.

Most Jews in the US today are Ashkenazic, descended from Jews who emigrated from Germany and Eastern Europe in the mid-1800s, although most of the early Jewish settlers of this country were Sephardic.  The first Jewish congregation in the city of Philadelphia, Congregation Mikveh Israel, was a Sephardic one (it is still active).

The beliefs of Sephardic Judaism are basically in accord with those of Orthodox Judaism, though Sephardic interpretations of halakhah (Jewish Law) are somewhat different from Ashkenazic ones.  Although some individual Sephardic Jews are less observant than others, and some individuals do not agree with all of the beliefs of traditional Judaism, there is no formal, organized differentiation into movements as there is in Ashkenazic Judaism.

Historically, Sephardic Jews have been more integrated into the local non-Jewish culture than Ashkenazic Jews.  In the Christian lands where Ashkenazic Judaism flourished, the tension between Christians and Jews was great, and Jews tended to be isolated from their non-Jewish neighbors, either voluntarily or involuntarily.  In the Islamic lands where Sephardic Judaism developed, no such segregation existed.  Sephardic Jewish thought and culture was strongly influenced by Arabic and Greek philosophy and science.

Sephardic Jews have a different pronunciation of a few Hebrew vowels and one Hebrew consonant, though most Ashkenazim are adopting Sephardic pronunciation now because it is the pronunciation used in Israel.  See Hebrew Alphabet.  Their prayer services are somewhat different from Ashkenazic ones, and they use different melodies in their services.  Sephardic Jews also have different holiday customs and different traditional foods.

The Yiddish language, which many people think of as the international language of Judaism, is really the language of Ashkenazic Jews.  Sephardic Jews have their own international language:  Ladino, which was based on Spanish and Hebrew in the same way that Yiddish was based on German and Hebrew.

There are some Jews who do not fit into this Ashkenazic/Sephardic distinction.  Yemenite Jews (including people on Mechon Mamre's staff), Ethiopian Jews (also known as Beta Israel and sometimes called Falashas), and Oriental Jews also have some distinct customs and traditions.  These groups, however, are relatively small and almost unknown in the West.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2010, 02:21:38 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


Maybe it's out of shame or something, I know a lot of people from like India and Pakistan pretend they are from Mexico because they don't like their culture or background. It's so weird hearing someone from Bombay say "Yo Esse!"

Are you honestly suggesting that for an Ashkenazi Jew to adopt Sephardi customs has to be out of shame or guilt?   You really don't view your own heritage very favorably do you?   No one would want to adopt any part of it?   Wow.

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2010, 02:23:24 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


hehehe.  Yes, really.  Your comment reeks of it (I bolded the key, telling parts).  It sounds like you have some irrational need to reinforce your own practice or your own decision, or else to promote that particular choice among others.  What are you so worried about?

KWRBT,

I am surprised that you are acting like this... I did not say that either minhag is 'the correct' minhag.... You should know better than to attribute this to me. As I said I am open to every Jew regardless of their minhag, and I have no real desire to force anyone to observe the Minhag which my ancestors kept. I hope you understand what I am saying and the reason I commented to the original statement.

PS: I vaguely remember that you said you adopted Sephardic customs because you consider them to be 'more Jewish' than the Ashkenazic customs. I dont want to reopen that discussion but I understand why you did this. I do not question your reasons...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2010, 02:23:42 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


Maybe it's out of shame or something, I know a lot of people from like India and Pakistan pretend they are from Mexico because they don't like their culture or background. It's so weird hearing someone from Bombay say "Yo Esse!"

Are you honestly suggesting that for an Ashkenazi Jew to adopt Sephardi customs has to be out of shame or guilt?   You really don't view your own heritage very favorably do you?   No one would want to adopt any part of it?   Wow.

No, didn't say that but the Ashkenazi take the worse abuse of all the Jewish ethnic divisions from outsiders from the "Khazar" theories to the shoah. The Russian Jews are still somewhat looked down on by a lot of the other groups, geopolitical primarily in Israel.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2010, 02:28:32 PM »


No, didn't say that but the Ashkenazi take the worse abuse of all the Jewish ethnic divisions from outsiders from the "Khazar" theories to the shoah. The Russian Jews are still somewhat looked down on by a lot of the other groups, geopolitical primarily in Israel.

LOL, you're joking right?

Ashkenazim have always had the "upper hand" politically over Sephardi and other Jews.   See Israeli history.

In any case, I just gave you a perfectly rational reason why Ashkenazim would adopt Sephardi custom in the example I cited about Turkey.   Note that it has to do with halachic permissibility, choosing community unity and brotherhood over divisiveness, and nothing to do with shame.  Halachic permissibility (along with practicality) was always the major relevant factor in Jewish history until recently.  (two things lamentably lost in today's discourse to our great dismay).

However it is also relevant to note that these decisions can involve relevant issues of historical/linguistic accuracy and truth in general.  It is also well known that Rabbi Nathan Adler himself, a full-fledged Ashkenazi Jew, adopted the Sephardi pronunciation of several Hebrew letters because it was superior to the Ashkenazi pronunciation and in his mind, linguistically and grammatically correct, while the version he was taught was incorrect.  This of course was back before the "cultural assimilation" of Medinat Yisrael and the destruction of proper Hebrew pronunciation among even Sephardi Jews.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 02:37:19 PM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2010, 02:32:15 PM »
I am worried this is becoming a Ashkenazi Vs Sephardic argument. We should not be fighting between Jews. I did not say anything to insult or degrade the wonderful Sephardic Jews... KWRBT seems to be getting argumentative concerning the fact I was puzzled why an Ashkenazi Jew would adopt Sephardic customs. There was no implication that either minhag is the correct one... Only the question why someone would turn their backs on a long and rich Jewish culture....

KWRBT please do not blow this issue out of proportion....
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2010, 02:34:09 PM »
Im a Chassidic Ashkenazi Jew, whos family immigrated to USA from Ukraine and Poland in the 1910s...



have a friend whose now Sephardi/Mizrahi, his parents from Ukraine, he told me that Yosef Karo had  one desencended who moved to Europe modern day Ukraine

Interesting, though I don't know why any Chassid would want to change to Sephardi because we have a rich culture... I am a follower of Breslov whos Gadol is Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, a great grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, the father of Chassidus...



Sephardi is also a rich culture. 

That is not my point.... i respect fully Sephardi culture, and I have said I have many Sephardi friends in my minyan.... But my puzzlement was due to the fact that the person he mentioned has an Ashkenazi background... Most Jews will follow the minhag which their family has kept... We have discussed this before and there may be reasons a person would follow the other minhag, but most Rabbis will still recommend keeping the minhag of the family.



Sounds like someone is a little insecure.

No,  not really.... Just it is a little odd for people to change like that...


hehehe.  Yes, really.  Your comment reeks of it (I bolded the key, telling parts).  It sounds like you have some irrational need to reinforce your own practice or your own decision, or else to promote that particular choice among others.  What are you so worried about?

KWRBT,

I am surprised that you are acting like this... I did not say that either minhag is 'the correct' minhag.... You should know better than to attribute this to me. As I said I am open to every Jew regardless of their minhag, and I have no real desire to force anyone to observe the Minhag which my ancestors kept. I hope you understand what I am saying and the reason I commented to the original statement.


I was just making an observation.   I never suggested that you said either was "correct."  So you're right, I do know better than to attribute that to you - because I didn't.  I try not to attribute inaccurate things to people - any people.

I also never suspected you of forcing anyone to observe minhag your ancestors kept.   What I did infer was a certain defensiveness behind your "puzzlement," which I found a bit curious.  I thought it was expressed in the words you wrote.  


Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2010, 02:34:39 PM »
*sniff sniff I smell a troll*

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2010, 02:36:00 PM »


PS: I vaguely remember that you said you adopted Sephardic customs because you consider them to be 'more Jewish' than the Ashkenazic customs. I dont want to reopen that discussion but I understand why you did this. I do not question your reasons...



This is more than a slight misrepresentation of reality, (not to mention over-simplification), but I've come to understand why you would have no interest to open a discussion of that nature.

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2010, 02:39:13 PM »
*sniff sniff I smell a troll*

I do not think Mizrahi4Life is a troll.. He just doesn't understand how things work at JTF...

We get along with all kinds of righteous Gentiles, some of them may be Christian, some of them may be Hindu, every one of the main JTF members appears to me to be a righteous individual.

There will always be friction within a group of people who have such brilliant heads on their shoulders, and we look forward to the challenge of answering questions and solving problems. We must not spend very much time fighting between ourselves.

I hope that Mizrahi4Life will end up being a good JTF member...

PS: KWRBT if you would like we can discuss this in Private Messages... I dont really want to have a machlokes with you at this time...



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Mizrahi 4 LIFE

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2010, 04:27:40 PM »
*sniff sniff I smell a troll*

dr why you assume i'm a troll?

Offline Mizrahi 4 LIFE

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2010, 04:29:06 PM »
we all G-d's children Jewish or Gentile, but we Jews (Ashkenaz, Sephardi, Mizrahi, or Convert) are a family.

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2010, 04:40:26 PM »
Gentile/Christian/member of CUFI, MEF, ZOA, Jewish Policy Center, The Freedom Center and Conservative all the way/supporter of Israel-America-and Freedom- anti-Sharia Law takeover. 

Offline Mizrahi 4 LIFE

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2010, 04:48:52 PM »
Gentile/Christian/member of CUFI, MEF, ZOA, Jewish Policy Center, The Freedom Center and Conservative all the way/supporter of Israel-America-and Freedom- anti-Sharia Law takeover. 

its great to know that many Gentiles support Israel and the Jewish people

Offline Confederate Kahanist

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2010, 04:49:27 PM »
*sniff sniff I smell a troll*


ugghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!1


Is he or she posting pictures of dead Jews or whatever?


Is he or she making wild accusations against,Israeli,Jews or whatever?


I don't think so.


Chad M ~ Your rebel against white guilt

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2010, 08:30:06 PM »
Christian/Catholic/Gentile/ American born from Italian parts.
RIGHT WING AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT. IF YOU WANTED TO PROVE YOU WEREN'T A "RACIST" IN 2008 BY VOTING FOR OBAMA, THEN PROVE IN 2012 YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT FOR VOTING AGAINST OBAMA!

Offline Nekama

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2010, 08:39:54 PM »
Ashkenazic and Gaelic but 100% Jewish.

By the way I love Sefardim. 

Offline Mizrahi 4 LIFE

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2010, 08:49:28 PM »
*sniff sniff I smell a troll*


ugghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!1


Is he or she posting pictures of dead Jews or whatever?


Is he or she making wild accusations against,Israeli,Jews or whatever?


I don't think so.




thank you friend my first name is Yaniv (male name)

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2010, 10:48:31 PM »
Ashkenazi, my mother's family was from Poland and my father's was from the Ukraine.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2010, 11:08:12 PM »
Ashkenazi, my mother's family was from Poland and my father's was from the Ukraine.

Shalom Brother,

You describe my family exactly... Mothers family from Poland, Fathers from Ukraine... Maybe we have a common ancestor :)
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraelForever

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2010, 12:44:47 AM »
I am an Ashkenazi Jew.  My grandparents were from Russia, Romania and Poland.  Woody Allen, Larry David, Allen Dershowitz or Goldberg (the wrestler) could easily be in my family with that look.

Offline muman613

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2010, 12:57:48 AM »
I am an Ashkenazi Jew.  My grandparents were from Russia, Romania and Poland.  Woody Allen, Larry David, Allen Dershowitz or Goldberg (the wrestler) could easily be in my family with that look.

Very interesting... Romania comes up AGAIN.... My boss is a very nice Romanian man whom while I was driving home tonight I ran into at the gas station while filling up, seeing him there got me thinking about Romania... Today an IDF helicopter crashed in Romania killing 6 Israelis and a Romanian.. And now I read this thread where you are part Romanian... My experience with those Romanians at my work is a good one...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraelForever

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Re: how many Jews and Gentiles do we have on this forum?
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2010, 01:30:23 AM »
I do not consider myself part Romanian at all.  Nor do I consider myself part Russian or part Polish.  That's because I'm not.  I'm 100% Jewish.  The fact that my mother's mother lived in Romania does not make me Romanian.  They were Jews who happened to live in those countries.  If a Jewish family from New York moved to France, would they be French?  Thanks to vicious anti-Semitism all over the world, Jews fled all over the place.  But if they married other wandering Jews and remained Jews, then their children were also Jewish, and they never became "French", or "Polish" or "Romanian", etc.  I was never even in Romania.