Mubarak Tells Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef: I'm Fine

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It is a mitzvah of Torah to await moshiach every day, as enumerated in the 13 principles of faith. It is such an important Mitzvah that one who denies the coming of Moshiach is compared to a heretic.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/332555/jewish/The-13-Principles.htm

The great codifier of Torah law and Jewish philosophy, Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon ("Maimonides" also known as "The Rambam"), compiled what he refers to as the Shloshah Asar Ikkarim, the "Thirteen Fundamental Principles" of the Jewish faith, as derived from the Torah. Maimonides refers to these thirteen principles of faith as "the fundamental truths of our religion and its very foundations." The Thirteen Principles of Jewish faith are as follows:

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.

2. The belief in G-d's absolute and unparalleled unity.

3. The belief in G-d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.

4. The belief in G-d's eternity.

5. The imperative to worship G-d exclusively and no foreign false gods.

6. The belief that G-d communicates with man through prophecy.

7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.

8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.

9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.

10. The belief in G-d's omniscience and providence.

11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.

12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.

13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.

http://www.aish.com/jl/p/mp/48929482.html

We believe and affirm that the Messiah will come. One should not think he is detained. [Rather,] "If he should tarry, await him" (Habakkuk 2:3)

One is not to assign him a specific time of arrival, nor should one use Scripture to deduce when he is coming. For the Sages have said, "The souls of those who calculate the end will be shattered."

[One must also] believe that [the Messiah] will surpass all the kings who have ever ruled in terms of his grandeur, his greatness, and his honor. [Man should] exalt, love, and pray for him according to the prophecies prophesied about him by all the prophets from Moshe Rabbeinu to Malachi.

He who doubts or belittles [the Messiah's arrival] denies [the authority of the Torah, which explicitly promises his arrival] in the story of Bilaam and in Deuteronomy 30.

Included within this Principle is [the idea] that the king of Israel must come from the House of David and the seed of Solomon. Anyone who opposes this dynasty defies the Almighty and the words of His prophets.

-- Maimonides, 13 Principles of Faith

* * *

...

It's good that you quote the Rambam and his 13 principles of faith because the Rambam also elaborates on what the actual criteria are for a person to be called moshiah, these are very concrete accomplishments he must first achieve to be declared thus, and we have been through this on this forum before.  Furthermore, it is the Rambam who explains that the important thing is that the Messianic era is more of an age or epoch than it is about any individual person.   And it is the same Rambam who proclaims that a Jew should live in Israel and it is forbidden to leave Israel.  So we see that that halacha has nothing to do with the existence or not-yet-existence of the moshiach.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Questions:

It being a given that the Moshiach is a man, is he a mortal man?

How long does the Messianic Era last?

For eternity? ... Or does it end?

And if there is an end to it, is Moshiach still living?

Does he live forever on Earth?

[muman613]

Questions:

It being a given that the Moshiach is a man, is he a mortal man?

How long does the Messianic Era last?

For eternity? ... Or does it end?

And if there is an end to it, is Moshiach still living?

Does he live forever on Earth?

Yes, according to Rambam Moshiach will be a normal man... Let me find the Rambams explanation:

http://www.moshiach.com/topics/what/the-rationalist-approach-to-messianism.php
...

Throughout his messianic writings, Maimonides strives to accomplish two things. First and foremost, he seeks to alter the Jewish world's attitude toward their faith by making the knowledge and love of G-d the ultimate goal. He tries to make clam baba, the spiritual World-to-Come, the highest good in the hierarchy of rewards that Judaism promises its adherents and to make all other goods subservient to it. To this extent, Maimonides goes to the incredible extreme of subordinating even the messianic age to Olam Haba, domain of the souls. Nevertheless, he emphasizes that even so, one should not underestimate the instrumental value of messianisim, since it offers conditions that free man of mundane worries and dis­tractions so that he can devote himself to the single-minded pursuit of knowledge of G-d.

In the days of the World-to-Come, knowledge, wisdom and truth will increase, as it is said, "For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:9), and it is said, "They will no more teach everyone his brother and everyone his neighbor" (Jeremiah 31:34), and further, "I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26). [Laws of Repentance]

He further writes concerning this point:

    The days of the Messiah are not ardently longed for on account of the plentiful vegetation, and the riches which they will bring in their train, nor in order that we may ride on horses, nor that we may drink to the accompaniment of various kinds of musical instruments, as is thought by those people who are confused in their ideas on such things. No! the prophets and saints wished and ardently desired [the days of the Messiah] because it implies the coming together of the virtuous, with choice deeds of goodness and knowledge, and the justice of the king, the greatness of his wisdom and his nearness to his Creator, as it is said: "The Lord said unto me, thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee." . . . And because it implies obedience to all the laws of Moses, without interference or disquietude or constraint.... as it is promised in the words, "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother saying, Know the Lord; for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them." "And I will take away the stony heart from your flesh." And there are many more similar verses on like themes. [Introduc­tion to Helek]

Second, he strives to neutralize what might be mistaken as religious fantasy. He seems to try to counteract the people's exaggerated expectations fostered by biblical and midrashic literature and naturalize the concept of messianism by inter­preting it in terms of regular patterns of nature. Wherever possible, he seems to try to make the content of messianic beliefs consistent with the order of nature by allegorizing prophetic and rabbinic statements that in their literal sense place messianism beyond the natural order.

Maimonides wrote that the Messiah himself will be mortal and that the longevity that people will enjoy in the messianic era will be a perfectly natural consequence of the conditions that will then prevail. In perhaps his most astounding pro­nouncement concerning the messianic age, Maimonides wrote:

    But the Messiah will die but people will live for 1,000 years. The Messiah will die, and his son and son's son will reign in his stead. G-d has clearly declared his death in the words, "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth." His kingdom will endure a very long time and the lives of men will he long also, because longevity is a consequence of the removal of sorrows and cares. Let not the fact of the duration of his kingdom for thousands of years seem strange to you, for the sages have said that when a number of good things come together, it is not an easy thing for them to separate again. [Introduction to Helek]

Maimonides explains how the length of days that people will enjoy during the messianic era need not imply a miraculous change in the natural order. When human society is free of violence, when people are not burdened psychologically by anxieties resulting from scarcity and the struggle for survival, and when people become conscious of their true human pur­pose, i.e., to know G-d, "then that society will be stable and ordered and its members will enjoy satisfying and lengthy lives."

Even amid his attempts to naturalize the messianic era, Maimonides nevertheless does not altogether allegorize the powers traditionally ascribed to the messianic figure:

    His [the Messiah's] name will be great and fill the earth to its uttermost bounds. It will be a greater name than that of King Solomon and mightier. The nations will make peace with him and lands will obey him by reason of his great rectitude and the wonders that will come to light by his means. Any one that rises up against him G-d will destroy and make him fall into his hand. [Introduction to Helek]

And again in Laws of Repentance Maimonides adds:

    Because the king who will arise from the seed of David will possess more wisdom than Solomon and will be a great prophet, approaching Moses, our teacher, he will teach the whole of the Jewish people and instruct them in the way of G-d; and all nations will come to hear him, as it is said, And at the end of days it shall come to pass that the Mount of the Lord's house shall be established as the top of the mountains [Micah 4:1; Isaiah 2:2]. [Mishneh Torah, Hilkhot Teshuvah 9:8-10]

...

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/i-await-his-coming-every-day/02.htm

very long explanation of Rambams Hilchos Melachim :

Chapters 11 & 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of the Rambam

Chapter Eleven

   1. In future time, the King Mashiach[8] will arise and renew the Davidic dynasty, restoring it to its initial sovereignty. He will rebuild the [Beis Ha]Mikdash and gather in the dispersed remnant of Israel. Then, in his days, all the statutes will be reinstituted as in former times. We will offer sacrifices and observe the Sabbatical and Jubilee years according to all their particulars set forth in the Torah.

      Whoever does not believe in him, or does not await his coming, denies not only [the statements of] the other prophets, but also [those of] the Torah and of Moshe, our teacher, for the Torah attests to his coming, stating:[9]

      And the L-rd your G-d will bring back your captivity and have compassion upon you. He will return and gather you [from among all the nations].... Even if your dispersed ones are in the furthest reaches of the heavens, [from there will G-d gather you in].... G-d will bring you [to the land]....

      These explicit words of the Torah include all that was said [on the subject] by all the prophets.

      There is also a reference [to Mashiach] in the passage concerning Bilaam, who prophesies about the two anointed [kings]: the first anointed [king],[10] David, who saved Israel from her oppressors, and the final anointed [king] who will arise from among his descendants and save Israel [at the End of Days].[11] The following [quoted] phrases are from that passage:[12]

      "I see it, but not now" - This refers to David; "I perceive it, but not in the near future" - This refers to King Mashiach.

      "A star shall go forth from Yaakov" - This refers to David; "and a staff shall arise in Yisrael" - This refers to King Mashiach.

      "He shall crush all of Moab's princes" - This refers to David, (as it is written,[13] "He smote Moab and measured them with a line"); "he shall break down all of Seth's descendants" - This refers to King Mashiach, (about whom it is written,[14] "He will rule from sea to sea").

      "Edom will be demolished" - This refers to David, (as it is written,[15] "Edom became the servants of David"); "his enemy, Seir, will be destroyed" - This refers to King Mashiach, (as it is written,[16] "Saviors will ascend Mount Zion [to judge the mountain of Esau....]").

   2. Similarly, in regard to the Cities of Refuge, it is stated,[17] "When G-d will expand your borders... you shall add three more cities." This command has never been fulfilled. [Surely,] G-d did not give this command in vain, [and thus the intent was that it be fulfilled after the coming of Mashiach]. There is no need to cite prooftexts on the concept [of the Mashiach] from the words of the prophets, for all [their] books are filled with it.

   3. One should not entertain the notion that the King Mashiach must work miracles and wonders, bring about new phenomena within the world, resurrect the dead, or perform other similar deeds. This is [definitely] not true.

      [A proof can be brought from the fact that] Rabbi Akiva, one of the greatest Sages of the Mishnah, was one of the supporters of King Ben Koziva, and would describe him as the King Mashiach. He and all the Sages of his generation considered him to be the King Mashiach until he was killed because of [his] sins. Once he was killed, they realized that he was not [the Mashiach]. The Sages did not ask him for any signs or wonders.

      [Rather,] this is the main thrust of the matter: This Torah, with its statutes and laws, is everlasting. We may neither add to them nor detract from them.[18]

   4. If a king will arise from the House of David who delves deeply into the study of the Torah and, like David his ancestor, observes its mitzvos as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law; if he will compel all of Israel to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the breaches [in its observance]; and if he will fight the wars of G-d; - we may, with assurance, consider him Mashiach.

      If he succeeds in the above, builds the [Beis Ha]Mikdash on its site, and gathers in the dispersed remnant of Israel, he is definitely the Mashiach.[19]

      He will then perfect the entire world, [motivating all the nations] to serve G-d together, as it is written,[20] "I will make the peoples pure of speech so that they will all call upon the Name of G-d and serve Him with one purpose."

Chapter Twelve

   1. One should not entertain the notion that in the Era of Mashiach any element of the natural order will be nullified, or that there will be any innovation in the work of creation. Rather, the world will continue according to its pattern.

      Although Yeshayahu[21] states, "The wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat," these [words] are an allegory and a riddle. They mean that Israel will dwell securely together with the wicked gentiles who are likened to wolves and leopards, as in the verse,[22] "A wolf of the deserts despoils them, a leopard watches over their cities." [In this Era, all nations] will return to the true faith and no longer plunder or destroy. Instead, at peace with Israel, they will eat that which is permitted, as it is written,[23] "The lion shall eat straw like the ox."

      Similarly, other prophecies of this nature concerning Mashiach are analogies. In the Era of the King Mashiach, everyone will realize what was implied by these metaphors and allusions.

   2. Our Sages taught:[24] "There will be no difference between the current age and the Era of Mashiach except [our emancipation from] subjugation to the [gentile] kingdoms."

      The simple meaning of the words of the prophets appears to imply that the War of Gog and Magog[25] will take place at the beginning of the Messianic Age. Before the War of Gog and Magog, a prophet will arise to rectify Israel's conduct and prepare their hearts [for the Redemption], as it is written:[26] "Behold, I am sending you Eliyah(u)[27] [the prophet, before the advent of the great and awesome Day of G-d]."

      He will not come [in order] to declare the pure, impure, nor to declare the impure, pure; nor [will he come in order] to disqualify the lineage of those presumed to be of flawless descent, nor to validate lineage which is presumed to be blemished. Rather, [he will come in order] to establish peace in the world; as [the above prophecy] continues,[28] "He will bring back the hearts of the fathers to the children."

      Some of the Sages say that Eliyahu will appear [immediately] before the coming of Mashiach.

      All these and similar matters cannot be [clearly] known by man until they occur, for they are undefined in the words of the prophets. Even the Sages have no established tradition regarding these matters, beyond what is implied by the verses; hence there is a divergence of opinion among them.

      In any case, neither the sequence of these events nor their precise details are among the fundamental principles of the faith. One should not occupy himself at length with the aggadot and midrashim that deal with these and similar matters, nor should he deem them of prime importance, for they bring one to neither the awe nor the love [of G-d].

      Similarly, one should not try to calculate the appointed time [for the coming of Mashiach]. Our Sages declared:[29] "May the spirits of those who attempt to calculate the final time [of Mashiach's coming] expire!" Rather, one should await [his coming] and believe in the general conception of the matter, as we have explained.

   3. During the Era of the King Mashiach, once his kingdom has been established and all of Israel has gathered around him, the entire [nation's] line of descent will be established on the basis of his words, through the prophetic spirit which will rest upon him. As it is written,[30] "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier."

      He will purify the lineage of the Levites first, stating that "This one is a priest of defined lineage" and "This one is a Levite of defined lineage." Those whose lineage he does not recognize will be relegated to the status of Israelites. This is implied by the following verse:[31] "The governor said to them, '[They shall not eat of the most holy things] until a priest arises [who will wear] the Urim and Tumim.' " From this verse one can infer that the genealogy of those presumed to be of unquestioned [priestly and levitical] lineage will be traced by means of the prophetic spirit, and those found to be of such lineage will be made known.

      He will define the lineage of the Israelites according to their tribe alone; i.e., he will make known each person's tribal origin, stating that "This one is from this tribe" and "This one is from another tribe." However, concerning a person who is presumed to be of unblemished lineage, he will not state that "He is illegitimate," or "He is of slave lineage," for the law rules that once a family has become intermingled [within the entire Jewish people], they may remain intermingled.

   4. The Sages and prophets did not yearn for the Messianic Era in order that [the Jewish people] rule over the entire world, nor in order that they have dominion over the gentiles, nor that they be exalted by them, nor in order that they eat, drink and celebrate. Rather, their aspiration was that [the Jewish people] be free [to involve themselves] in Torah and its wisdom, without anyone to oppress or disturb them, and thus be found worthy of life in the World to Come, as we explained in Hilchos Teshuvah.

   5. In that Era there will be neither famine nor war, neither envy nor competition, for good things will flow in abundance and all the delights will be as freely available as dust. The occupation of the entire world will be solely to know G-d. The Jews will therefore be great sages and know the hidden matters, and will attain an understanding of their Creator to the [full] extent of mortal potential; as it is written,[32] "For the world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the ocean bed."

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Questions:

It being a given that the Moshiach is a man, is he a mortal man? 

I wasn't aware that there was a different type of man.

How long does the Messianic Era last?

For eternity? ... Or does it end?

I think it's supposed to continue going although I guess anything's possible.

And if there is an end to it, is Moshiach still living?

Does he live forever on Earth? 

Well we believe that eventually in the future at some time of Hashem's choosing, there will be resurrection of the dead whereby all righteous people will have eternal life.   I believe moshiah will be a righteous person so he should be included as one of the people resurrected.    If that does not happen during his lifetime, then he can die.    Some sources speak about a moshiah ben Yosef who is killed or dies before the other moshiah ben David comes.

But this also (moshiah ben yosef) can refer to an era rather than an individual.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

And a leader can be wrong.  The Torah says it if you don't believe me...

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

all i say is leave Chaham Ovadiah Yosef alone! dont speak bad about him, hes the biggest Rabbi in the world!

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

בס''ד

I am Sephardi/Mizrachi and he is not my leader. So he is not the leader of all the Sephardim.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

בס''ד

I am Sephardi and he is not my leader. So he is not the leader of all the Sephardim.

Same here

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

בס''ד

I am Sephardi/Mizrachi and he is not my leader. So he is not the leader of all the Sephardim.

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house. other Jews dont like him because of politics and because of his views

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

all i say is leave Chaham Ovadiah Yosef alone! dont speak bad about him, hes the biggest Rabbi in the world!

I didn't "speak bad" (sic) about him.  But see, your problem is that if I say he made a mistake or challenge his judgement on logical grounds, to you that is "speaking bad" about him.   But it's not.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

בס''ד

I am Sephardi/Mizrachi and he is not my leader. So he is not the leader of all the Sephardim.

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house.

And that's relevant how?  LOL

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

please no hating in chaham Ovadiah Yoseh Shlita, hes the greatest rabbi today in the world.

And please no worshiping of men.   It (it being avoda zara) is the worst of averoth.

no one is worshipping! Chacham Ovadiah Yosef Shlita, if the Chief Sephardic/Mizrahi Rabbi in the world. he is the leader of all Sephardim/Mizrahim

בס''ד

I am Sephardi/Mizrachi and he is not my leader. So he is not the leader of all the Sephardim.

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house. other Jews dont like him because of politics and because of his views

בס''ד

He is a Torah sage and I respect his Torah knowledge. But he was responsible for the Oslo accords which led to the murder of 1800 Jews, Hashem yikom damam. To get government bribes, he orders his corrupt Shas party to support the most evil Erev Rav traitors who are destroying Israel.

He is a leader who preaches surrender and galut cowardice. Most other Torah sages in our generation do not agree with him on issues that are essential to Jewish survival.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house. other Jews dont like him because of politics and because of his views

And until the 1980s, many left-wing kibbutznik households in Israel had portraits of Joseph Stalin hanging.

Your point being?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house. other Jews dont like him because of politics and because of his views

And until the 1980s, many left-wing kibbutznik households in Israel had portraits of Joseph Stalin hanging.

Your point being?

With all due respect there's no basis for comparison between the Communist Hitler and Rav Ovadia Yosef.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

With all due respect there's no basis for comparison between the Communist Hitler and Rav Ovadia Yosef.

My point is that just because large numbers of Israelis feel a certain way doesn't make them right.

[muman613]

with all due respect to you and any other Sephardic/Mizrahi Jew, most religious Sephardim/Mizrahim have pictures of the Chaham in their house. other Jews dont like him because of politics and because of his views

And until the 1980s, many left-wing kibbutznik households in Israel had portraits of Joseph Stalin hanging.

Your point being?

With all due respect there's no basis for comparison between the Communist Hitler and Rav Ovadia Yosef.

I certainly agree with this...

We can disagree with Rav Yosef without resorting to such disrespect..

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I certainly agree with this...

We can disagree with Rav Yosef without resorting to such disrespect..

I already explained myself, see above.

[muman613]

I certainly agree with this...

We can disagree with Rav Yosef without resorting to such disrespect..

I already explained myself, see above.

I understand your analogy...