Poll: who is a Jew?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Please explain your opinion.

[muman613]

What is there to explain. Our Holy Torah told us how to determine if a person is Jewish... It is only if the person has a Jewish mother or has gone through the halachic conversion process...

[TruthSpreader]

A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha) - one who is born to a Jewish mother or gone through an Orthodox conversion process

[briann]

A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha) - one who is born to a Jewish mother or gone through an Orthodox conversion process

Exactly what I was going to say.  BTW, I think its offensive that you bring up the Nuremberg laws as an option.... can you kindly remove that.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha) - one who is born to a Jewish mother or gone through an Orthodox conversion process

Exactly what I was going to say.  BTW, I think its offensive that you bring up the Nuremberg laws as an option.... can you kindly remove that.

Why? The Law of Return is based on them.

[Dr. Dan]

There is nothing to explain.. A Jew is Jew according to Halacha and not according to man made rules or if someone feels Jewish..If someone truly feels Jewish, then he/she should seek an Orthodox Rabbi's counsel to convert.

[briann]

A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha) - one who is born to a Jewish mother or gone through an Orthodox conversion process

Exactly what I was going to say.  BTW, I think its offensive that you bring up the Nuremberg laws as an option.... can you kindly remove that.

Why? The Law of Return is based on them.

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.  THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.  and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Without the Torah, there was never any such thing as a Jew.  Without G-d setting up that delineation for us in the Torah, our collectivity as a nation could not have persisted.  And it always persisted based on the Torah delineations as explained by halacha, the traditional backbone of Judaism and Jewish culture, until a few generations ago in the post-enlightenment period when reformists suddenly tried to create a new religion because certain countries allowed them to come out of the ghetto (but then later forced them back into the ghettos, deported them, and murdered them along with those who never left).  

But even those early reformers did not question what was actually a Jew.  They did institutionalize their own conversions which were never recognized by anyone but themselves, but they never questioned that a Jew had a Jewish mother.   That developed later on because the membership numbers in reform "synagogues" were dwindling and they felt they could increase membership and dues ($$$) by "inviting" non-Jews as Jews simply because they married a Jew, or their father was Jewish, etc.    Nowadays, thanks to postmodernism many Jews think any subject is a free-for-all and any arbitrary definitions apply and you simply choose the most 'tolerant' or "inclusive" view or else you're an antiquated bigot.   Twisted and incorrect.

[Zelhar]

A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha) - one who is born to a Jewish mother or gone through an Orthodox conversion process

Exactly what I was going to say.  BTW, I think its offensive that you bring up the Nuremberg laws as an option.... can you kindly remove that.

Why? The Law of Return is based on them.

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.  THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.  and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

I thought the reference was to the Israeli law of return. Although that law don't define a person with one Jewish grandfather as a Jew, it grants him the right of making aliyah. What's more is that some Jews and not so few of them actually think of Jews as a race and that a person with a fraction of Jewish blood is Jewish if he "feels Jewish".

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.

I think you mean insensitive.
On the contray! You're using the same argument as "by calling the Arabs Nazis, you're disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust". Fighting against Nazi-like Laws is not insensitive but is actually recognition of the past and their suffering and an attempt to make sure it will not happen again.

THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.

It doesn't matter, the Law of Return is as immoral as the Nurenberg laws because it's a DIRECT copy of them. Jewishness defined by race - hence, Russian Neo-Nazi skinheads are welcome because they had a Jewish grandfather.
 

and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

I know being honest and non-PC is pathetic for you.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

You stand on that? (not that it matters, on the contray, you're strengthening my point..)

[IsraelForever]

I voted "A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha)" -- which, by the way, I think is kind of lenient.  I would prefer that it was that your mother AND father were Jews.  (I hope I don't get too much flack for this.)

[The One and Only Mo]

That's like asking if 1+1 is 2 or another number. Whatever the Halacha says, you know?

[muman613]

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.

I think you mean insensitive.
On the contray! You're using the same argument as "by calling the Arabs Nazis, you're disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust". Fighting against Nazi-like Laws is not insensitive but is actually recognition of the past and their suffering and an attempt to make sure it will not happen again.

THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.

It doesn't matter, the Law of Return is as immoral as the Nurenberg laws because it's a DIRECT copy of them. Jewishness defined by race - hence, Russian Neo-Nazi skinheads are welcome because they had a Jewish grandfather.
 

and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

I know being honest and non-PC is pathetic for you.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

You stand on that? (not that it matters, on the contray, you're strengthening my point..)

I think you meant contrary...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa=X&ei=xs9pTLvVPI2csQPY_YTwBg&ved=0CAQQBSgA&q=define%3Acontrary&spell=1

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.

I think you mean insensitive.
On the contray! You're using the same argument as "by calling the Arabs Nazis, you're disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust". Fighting against Nazi-like Laws is not insensitive but is actually recognition of the past and their suffering and an attempt to make sure it will not happen again.

THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.

It doesn't matter, the Law of Return is as immoral as the Nurenberg laws because it's a DIRECT copy of them. Jewishness defined by race - hence, Russian Neo-Nazi skinheads are welcome because they had a Jewish grandfather.
 

and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

I know being honest and non-PC is pathetic for you.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

You stand on that? (not that it matters, on the contray, you're strengthening my point..)

I think you meant contrary...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa=X&ei=xs9pTLvVPI2csQPY_YTwBg&ved=0CAQQBSgA&q=define%3Acontrary&spell=1

I never liked you

[muman613]

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.

I think you mean insensitive.
On the contray! You're using the same argument as "by calling the Arabs Nazis, you're disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust". Fighting against Nazi-like Laws is not insensitive but is actually recognition of the past and their suffering and an attempt to make sure it will not happen again.

THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.

It doesn't matter, the Law of Return is as immoral as the Nurenberg laws because it's a DIRECT copy of them. Jewishness defined by race - hence, Russian Neo-Nazi skinheads are welcome because they had a Jewish grandfather.
 

and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

I know being honest and non-PC is pathetic for you.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

You stand on that? (not that it matters, on the contray, you're strengthening my point..)

I think you meant contrary...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa=X&ei=xs9pTLvVPI2csQPY_YTwBg&ved=0CAQQBSgA&q=define%3Acontrary&spell=1

I never liked you

Seriously? I thought you did like me...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Because you are being incensitive to the souls who lived through that period.

I think you mean insensitive.
On the contray! You're using the same argument as "by calling the Arabs Nazis, you're disrespecting the victims of the Holocaust". Fighting against Nazi-like Laws is not insensitive but is actually recognition of the past and their suffering and an attempt to make sure it will not happen again.

THe Nurenburg law basically made Jews subjects to the state, it treated them like garbage, told them they would be jailed if they associated with 'Aryans' in the wrong way.

It doesn't matter, the Law of Return is as immoral as the Nurenberg laws because it's a DIRECT copy of them. Jewishness defined by race - hence, Russian Neo-Nazi skinheads are welcome because they had a Jewish grandfather.
 

and to leave that as an option is pathetic.

I know being honest and non-PC is pathetic for you.

Also, I believe the Nurenburg laws ultimately required 2 grandparents.  

You stand on that? (not that it matters, on the contray, you're strengthening my point..)

I think you meant contrary...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa=X&ei=xs9pTLvVPI2csQPY_YTwBg&ved=0CAQQBSgA&q=define%3Acontrary&spell=1

I never liked you

Seriously? I thought you did like me...

Joking

[muman613]

Thanks..

 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I voted "A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha)" -- which, by the way, I think is kind of lenient.  I would prefer that it was that your mother AND father were Jews.  (I hope I don't get too much flack for this.)

What is that preference based on?  And why should it be considered?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I can't believe that out of all these choices, 3 people voted for the nuremberg laws!

[cjd]

Well most people got it right... The three might be classified as margin of error votes

[IsraelForever]

I voted "A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha)" -- which, by the way, I think is kind of lenient.  I would prefer that it was that your mother AND father were Jews.  (I hope I don't get too much flack for this.)

What is that preference based on?  And why should it be considered?

It's just my personal preference.  I know that it won't be considered, nor do I expect it to be.  I don't set such rules.  But I'm expressing my feeling about the rule, that's all.  Now maybe I'm wrong about this, but if you had a friend who came from a Jewish mother and a Jewish father and a Jewish household, and you had another friend whose father was Christian, which friend would you feel closer to as a Jew? 

As I understand it, the Halachach reasoning for only the mother being the determinant factor is because it's always certain who the mother is.  I would have made a different ruling, that's all.

[MassuhDGoodName]

This is not a new question/argument.

I remember it was brought up early on in the history of The State of Israel.

Can't remember which prominent personality said it, but after frustrating attempts to forge a definition some one said "Anybody crazy enough to want to be a Jew is a Jew!"

Not Jewish Law, but makes a good point from the perspective of most Jews!    

[cjd]

I voted "A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha)" -- which, by the way, I think is kind of lenient.  I would prefer that it was that your mother AND father were Jews.  (I hope I don't get too much flack for this.)

What is that preference based on?  And why should it be considered?

It's just my personal preference.  I know that it won't be considered, nor do I expect it to be.  I don't set such rules.  But I'm expressing my feeling about the rule, that's all.  Now maybe I'm wrong about this, but if you had a friend who came from a Jewish mother and a Jewish father and a Jewish household, and you had another friend whose father was Christian, which friend would you feel closer to as a Jew? 

As I understand it, the Halachach reasoning for only the mother being the determinant factor is because it's always certain who the mother is.  I would have made a different ruling, that's all.

There are thousands of years of debate on issues like this I would think that they have looked at all the angles by now... I think they have it figured out fairly well...

[david1967]

If Jews go back several generations, either Sephardic, Ashkenazic or Mizrahi/Middle Eastern, there's no way to tell how much non-Jewish blood from rapes and pogroms are a part of every family's tree.  In the middle ages, if people who claimed to be Jews moved into a different community or country, did they require them to show documentation like ketuba, brit milah record etc? or did they simply accept them into the Jewish community based on their word?  Did they give them a test to see how much they knew about Judaism?  I doubt it.  After the Holocaust, when survivors would marry and/or immigrate to Israel, did the Rabbis require documentation from them to prove their Jewishness?  No, because it was impossible; everything had been destroyed during the war.  
The checking of documentation by the Rabbis is a modern concept.  It developed after the huge influx of formerly Soviet Jews after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1990, as a response to many instances of fraud by non-Jewish Russians attempting to leave the former Soviet Union.  
In my opinion, there should be 2 different standards for aliyah and marriage.  I think the status quo that exists in Israel now is fine.  However in my opinion, there should be civil marriage there, only between a man and woman, as well.  Even a non-halachic Jew must serve in the Israeli army and risk his/her life for the Jewish state.  At the least, they should be allowed to marry in a civil ceremony in Israel. If they are killed while serving in the army, they should also be allowed to be buried in a military cemetary.  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I voted "A Jew according to the Jewish Law (Halacha)" -- which, by the way, I think is kind of lenient.  I would prefer that it was that your mother AND father were Jews.  (I hope I don't get too much flack for this.)

What is that preference based on?  And why should it be considered?

It's just my personal preference.  I know that it won't be considered, nor do I expect it to be.  I don't set such rules.  But I'm expressing my feeling about the rule, that's all.  Now maybe I'm wrong about this, but if you had a friend who came from a Jewish mother and a Jewish father and a Jewish household, and you had another friend whose father was Christian, which friend would you feel closer to as a Jew? 

It depends how the person in question was raised.   I would "feel closer" to the Jew with Christian father if that Jew never stepped foot in a church and still celebrated Jewish holidays, hanukah, etc.   And if the Jew with Jewish mother AND father was actually raised without any Jewish upbringing, I wouldn't feel close to him at all.   But whether or not he is Jewish is an existential question and has nothing to do with how close you or I feel to the person.