Poll: who is a Jew?

[AsheDina]

My Mother is a Portuguese Crypto/Marrano Jew, and raised me SERIOUSLY strict with the help of my Nana.

My father is 1/2 WASP, 1/2 Iroquois Indian. Sorry to say, he is a rotten, unrighteous, Jew hating gentile.

We were not religious. I have always believed in ONE G-d, THE G-d of the Torah, period.  I didnt get involved in 'religion', I am spiritual. G-d does miraculous things around me too great for words.

As far as 'who am I close to?'  It depends. I have met many "Christians" that are baked wind morons for socialism. I have met more "Jews" than you can shake a stick at that are bleeding heart Kommies. 

I feel to be a good Jew, (this is my opinion) is to not sit by watching your brother/sister taking a beating, and fight. I feel that a good Jew (that is not religious) should follow the Commandments and love his/her brethren.

I will take up for any person that shows they are #1. loyal to G-d and believers in the ONLY G-d, #2. faithful #3. righteous.

I guess thats all for me.

[AsheDina]

This is not a new question/argument.

I remember it was brought up early on in the history of The State of Israel.

Can't remember which prominent personality said it, but after frustrating attempts to forge a definition some one said "Anybody crazy enough to want to be a Jew is a Jew!"

Not Jewish Law, but makes a good point from the perspective of most Jews!    

  too right.

[Meerkat]

law of return standards are fine

[muman613]

This is not a new question/argument.

I remember it was brought up early on in the history of The State of Israel.

Can't remember which prominent personality said it, but after frustrating attempts to forge a definition some one said "Anybody crazy enough to want to be a Jew is a Jew!"

Not Jewish Law, but makes a good point from the perspective of most Jews!    

  too right.

I guess that makes Steven Weigang a Jew... He is so crazy he thinks he is a Jew...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

[Yaakov Mendel]

What is there to explain. Our Holy Torah told us how to determine if a person is Jewish... It is only if the person has a Jewish mother or has gone through the halachic conversion process...

Of course. What is there to discuss here ?

[Rubystars]

I guess that makes Steven Weigang a Jew... He is so crazy he thinks he is a Jew...

After I edited funny stuff into his wikipedia page I was given a warning that if I did something like that again I'd be banned from editing Wikipedia. 

[Debbie Shafer]

I believe that you can be Jewish with Jewish blood, but need to believe the Torah and practice Judisim to really call yourself a jew.  Not just by blood but by belief and loyalty to your religion. Thankyou.

[Meerkat]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

[Meerkat]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

yes, i thought the nuremberg laws applied to 1\at least 1/2 jews.

also, why do you make it sound like defining a group in of itself is a bad thing?

[Zelhar]

I think one point needs to be cleared. Secular Jews is something quite recent, about 150-200 years or so. Before that all Jews were virtually religious, at least by culture, appearance and education. And they lived in Christian or Islamic countries that themselves didn't have a secular society. Back then, it was impossible to marry a gentile wife, live a secular life with her, and call this family and the children "Jewish".

So the reason why we need records nowadays is that everyone can pretend to be a secular Jew. While it is virtually impossible to fake an orthodox Jew.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

yes, i thought the nuremberg laws applied to 1\at least 1/2 jews.

also, why do you make it sound like defining a group in of itself is a bad thing?

When you adopt the nazi definitions for how to "define a group," it is a bad thing.    What right do nazis have to define the Jews?   And why should modern-day ignorant Jews adopt the nazis' incorrect definitions that go against our own culture, history, religion, and tradition?

[Meerkat]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

yes, i thought the nuremberg laws applied to 1\at least 1/2 jews.

also, why do you make it sound like defining a group in of itself is a bad thing?

When you adopt the nazi definitions for how to "define a group," it is a bad thing.    What right do nazis have to define the Jews?   And why should modern-day ignorant Jews adopt the nazis' incorrect definitions that go against our own culture, history, religion, and tradition?

i didnt, untill i saw this poll, i thought the nuremberg laws said "1/2 jews"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

yes, i thought the nuremberg laws applied to 1\at least 1/2 jews.

also, why do you make it sound like defining a group in of itself is a bad thing?

When you adopt the nazi definitions for how to "define a group," it is a bad thing.    What right do nazis have to define the Jews?   And why should modern-day ignorant Jews adopt the nazis' incorrect definitions that go against our own culture, history, religion, and tradition?

i didnt, untill i saw this poll, i thought the nuremberg laws said "1/2 jews"

 

No matter what you thought about Nuremberg laws, you are adopting the Nazi criteria when you say that 1/4 Jews should be considered Jews.   What is a 1/4 Jew?  There is no such thing.   You are making Judaism into a race, following the model of the German nazis, simply because the Israeli law you are accustomed to employed that model, whether you realized that or not.    Whether you knew the fact or not, the Israeli law employed that nazi model.   Whether it's 1/2 vs. 1/4 etc is inconsequential to the argument.

[Meerkat]

law of return standards are fine

Stop hijacking Judaism you filthy Liberal
Yet I'm not surprised you sympathize with a Nazi-based law

until i saw this poll, i thought the Nuremberg laws, you had to be half, not 1/4 like in th+e law of return.

So you thought that the Israeli law of return outdid the nazism of the nuremberg laws?

yes, i thought the nuremberg laws applied to 1\at least 1/2 jews.

also, why do you make it sound like defining a group in of itself is a bad thing?

When you adopt the nazi definitions for how to "define a group," it is a bad thing.    What right do nazis have to define the Jews?   And why should modern-day ignorant Jews adopt the nazis' incorrect definitions that go against our own culture, history, religion, and tradition?

i didnt, untill i saw this poll, i thought the nuremberg laws said "1/2 jews"

 

No matter what you thought about Nuremberg laws, you are adopting the Nazi criteria when you say that 1/4 Jews should be considered Jews.   What is a 1/4 Jew?  There is no such thing.   You are making Judaism into a race, following the model of the German nazis, simply because the Israeli law you are accustomed to employed that model, whether you realized that or not.    Whether you knew the fact or not, the Israeli law employed that nazi model.   Whether it's 1/2 vs. 1/4 etc is inconsequential to the argument.

i said the "law of return" because that was the poll option, my actual opinion is either 1/4th or a convert to most sects (with a sufficiently long conversion process).

[Meerkat]

also, if some muslim guy's maternal grandmothers mother (great grandma) is jewish, while everyone else is muslim, is he a jew? on a theological level and on a legal level?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Halakcha itself is clear on who is a Jew, and who is not a Jew.  -- Having a Jewish mother is crucial [or a legitimate conversion].

Nuremberg laws granting Israeli citizenship were adopted to help the people of Europe who were being slaughtered because they had Jewish relatives and were considered Jewish by Nazis and their helper anti-Semites who would kill them, no?  Are people allowed to immigrate to Israel because they are "part Jewish" [but not actually Jewish Jewish] given full Jew status by the State [the State has no Semikhah backing, so are they forcing "halakcha" standard Jewish status on society?]?  I am not sure I understand fully the State involvement.  A secular government [anti-Judaism] has little to no place ruling over Jews of Israel [despite what Israel's history and current status are; clearly many things need to change].

I do think the Jewish people should be moved to protect people who are persecuted by anti-Semites because they have Jewish family, who find themselves [mistakenly] targeted as Jews. -- I'm just not wise enough to say if the State of Israel has a responsibility to be a haven for such people; it is a tremendous thing for a country to absorb people in it, especially a State as small as Israel [what a naqba Israel is absorbing and tolerating black Muslim Nazis who invade the State, as well as Arab Muslim Nazis who squat on Jewish land and claim it for their own.].  Israel is a Jewish State, and should never compromise what that means, or allow it to be compromised [clearly Israel does not run as a Jewish State today, and never has; moving further away from a Jewish idealed State is a travesty, and if non-Jewish immigrants brings negative change than it should not happen].

The yardstick is, "is it good for the Jews"? [first and foremost].

[White Israelite]

Halacha may say otherwise but if you travel to most countries, those countries do not consider someone Jewish by religion but by a bloodline or race and even on the ethnicity forms, they declare the person different ethnically. My dads parents census from Southern Romania state ethnic "Evrei" which means "Israelite". The term Jewish is not very commonly used in Europe, so it is to distinguish Jews from the rest of the population as the world does not see it as a "religion". Even in the South (US), people associate Jews as being a racial group of people like Germans or Italians. We do not choose to be put into this category, the world made the decision to make us a race regardless if we think so or not.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Halacha may say otherwise but if you travel to most countries, those countries do not consider someone Jewish by religion but by a bloodline or race and even on the ethnicity forms, they declare the person different ethnically. My dads parents census from Southern Romania state ethnic "Evrei" which means "Israelite". The term Jewish is not very commonly used in Europe, so it is to distinguish Jews from the rest of the population as the world does not see it as a "religion". Even in the South (US), people associate Jews as being a racial group of people like Germans or Italians. We do not choose to be put into this category, the world made the decision to make us a race regardless if we think so or not.

It's not a religion.   It's a religio-nation.  It's a combination of ethnicity and religion.  Other nations calling us different things or "defining" our race as they desire to define it, has nothing to do with reality and nothing to do with the question of "How should WE define ourselves?"   Supposed WE were the Israeli govt, with say over Jewish life, without needing input from germany, or romania, or italy, which we don't need.   How should we do it?   That's the only relevant question.

And the answer to the question is simple as well.   We should define ourselves as we've always defined ourselves as a religio-nation, whereby anyone with Jewish mother is Jewish and any valid convert is Jewish.  Anyone else will need to convert, simple as that.   This is in line with our history, culture, tradition, and halacha without letting others hijack those things from us, as no self-respecting nation allows their cultural heritage to be hijacked and redefined by outsiders.   Especially by outsiders like nazis or antisemitic europeans who have only bad intentions and only evil hatred for us as a people.    Why would someone accept the designs of the groups that hate us?      It appears that stockholm syndrome strikes again....