Why not a whisper from Feiglin?

[wonga66]

Feiglin is a member of the Likud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

He was strongly anti-Pipi, had quite a following & some influence.

Why not a peek from him in the current farrago?! Has he been bought/threatened/in fear of he being injured like his son in "an accident"?!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Feiglin is a member of the Likud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

He was strongly anti-Pipi, had quite a following & some influence.

Why not a peek from him in the current farrago?!

Everyone knows he's against bibi.  He has no seat in the govt.

Perhaps you don't read or watch the hebrew media and maybe that's why you don't hear any peeps.


In any case, what will his protest accomplish?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He's not much better than Lewinsky. He has denounced the Jewish saints Yigal Amir and Dr. Goldstein (may G-d avenge his blood).

G-d, not P*nis Lewinsky, has kept him from gaining any kind of power or influence because of how he has desecrated the name of those two holy martyrs.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

He's not much better than Lewinsky. He has denounced the Jewish saints Yigal Amir and Dr. Goldstein (may G-d avenge his blood).

G-d, not P*nis Lewinsky, has kept him from gaining any kind of power or influence because of how he has desecrated the name of those two holy martyrs.

[/b]


That's rather presumptuous of you, but if those criteria really determined who takes power, surely Bibi, barak, and livni would be picking cherries on a plantation in Cambodia right about now.    I think this type of view is silly, and in reality the reason he hasn't taken power is the failure of his strategy.  With a better strategy or with more time, or other factors, he can take power like anyone else can.

Or, perhaps, he can't take power like anyone else outside the establishment can't.   Either way, there is no "curse" from on high.   Certainly not anything we are privy to.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

1: Maybe G-d puts evil people in power to teach a lesson to the so-called righteous for their compromising, or failure to do what is right. That's the entire story of the Tanach and the punishments that happen to the Israelites.

2: Feiglin isn't the answer. His movement has existed for many, many years and it's smaller than Hayamin, which isn't even based in Israel.

3: We shouldn't be aspiring for Feiglin to take power. There are real Kahanists both within and outside of Israel who would do a much better job.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I never said Feiglin "is the answer." 

I disputed your claim.


I also never said that G-d doesn't put evil people in power, but you claimed that the reason Feiglin is not in power is because G-d is preventing him since he supposedly said something against Jewish heroes.   That's funny because shouldn't he then be PUT into power in order to teach Jews a lesson since you're trying to say he's so evil (chas veshalom - he is certainly a great man)?   Make up your mind.




And when you say we shouldn't aspire for Feiglin to take power, I think that's insane.   If Feiglin did take power, that would be a great day for the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel.    Have you ever looked at his platform and what he wants for Israel?   

JTF and hayamin disagree with Feiglin's strategy and maybe on some minor points but to say that it would be anything but a great day if he took power is just partisan blindness.

Btw, name me those kahanists inside israel who would do a better job and what have they done compared to what he has done?  A whole lot of nothing.  Come on.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I never said Feiglin "is the answer." 
 
I disputed your claim.

If he is willing to slander the names, and in the case of one the memory, of two Jewish saints just for political correctness, do you not think that that demonstrates that he would be willing to make unpleasant compromises?

I also never said that G-d doesn't put evil people in power, but you claimed that the reason Feiglin is not in power is because G-d is preventing him since he supposedly said something against Jewish heroes.

Lewinsky, Holemert, Hitler, etc. don't pretend to be great people or the answer. Feiglin on the other hand runs as a reformist, an alternative, a solution-maker. He presents himself as a figure of light, and yes, I do think G-d will hold him to a higher standard for that.

That's funny because shouldn't he then be PUT into power in order to teach Jews a lesson since you're trying to say he's so evil (chas veshalom - he is certainly a great man)?   Make up your mind.

How is he a great man if he made a blood libel against the memory of one of the holiest Jewish men in history? Name three Israelis today that you know for a fact would be willing to sacrifice their lives right now to save other Jews from an Arab massacre.

And when you say we shouldn't aspire for Feiglin to take power, I think that's insane.   If Feiglin did take power, that would be a great day for the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel.    Have you ever looked at his platform and what he wants for Israel?

He's an improvement over Lewinsky and the rest of the current batch of losers. That's all I will say. Maybe he would completely crumble and sell out once in power just like Begin did. I can't prove that he will but he is secular and secular people, in the end, will cave because they have no deeper truths that they stand on.

JTF and hayamin disagree with Feiglin's strategy and maybe on some minor points but to say that it would be anything but a great day if he took power is just partisan blindness.

I would call the issue of making a blood libel against a martyred Jewish hero more than a "minor point".

Btw, name me those kahanists inside israel who would do a better job and what have they done compared to what he has done?  A whole lot of nothing.  Come on.

Michael Ben-Ari, Noam Federman, etc.

[wonga66]

Feiglin here is no Kahane.

But he's about as rightwing as you're currently able to get away with in Israel without being jailed.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

But he's about as rightwing as you're currently able to get away with in Israel without being jailed.

He is not required by law to denounce the saints Amir and Goldstein. That is BS.

[wonga66]

"saint" in Hebrew is tzaddik. Baruch has been called "gever" and "hakodosh", & Yigal "hakanoy".

But "tzaddik" is generally reserved in unsere schprach for the exceptional like R.Kahane.

And there are real doubts whether Amir & Goldstein ever actually killed anybody!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I never said Feiglin "is the answer." 
 
I disputed your claim.

If he is willing to slander the names, and in the case of one the memory, of two Jewish saints just for political correctness, do you not think that that demonstrates that he would be willing to make unpleasant compromises?

I also never said that G-d doesn't put evil people in power, but you claimed that the reason Feiglin is not in power is because G-d is preventing him since he supposedly said something against Jewish heroes.

Lewinsky, Holemert, Hitler, etc. don't pretend to be great people or the answer. Feiglin on the other hand runs as a reformist, an alternative, a solution-maker. He presents himself as a figure of light, and yes, I do think G-d will hold him to a higher standard for that. 

It still doesn't give a rational basis for your nutty view that he's cursed or that God doesn't like him.

That's funny because shouldn't he then be PUT into power in order to teach Jews a lesson since you're trying to say he's so evil (chas veshalom - he is certainly a great man)?   Make up your mind.

How is he a great man if he made a blood libel against the memory of one of the holiest Jewish men in history? Name three Israelis today that you know for a fact would be willing to sacrifice their lives right now to save other Jews from an Arab massacre. 

Made a blood libel?  Wow you're going overboard.  I still haven't seen these supposed quotes.

And when you say we shouldn't aspire for Feiglin to take power, I think that's insane.   If Feiglin did take power, that would be a great day for the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel.    Have you ever looked at his platform and what he wants for Israel?

He's an improvement over Lewinsky and the rest of the current batch of losers. That's all I will say. Maybe he would completely crumble and sell out once in power just like Begin did. I can't prove that he will but he is secular and secular people, in the end, will cave because they have no deeper truths that they stand on.

No, he isn't!   He is not secular, he's religious zionist!  Where do you get this stuff from?

JTF and hayamin disagree with Feiglin's strategy and maybe on some minor points but to say that it would be anything but a great day if he took power is just partisan blindness.

I would call the issue of making a blood libel against a martyred Jewish hero more than a "minor point". 

This is new for me.  What do you mean by "make a blood libel" against a person?

And didn't you admit to me a few days ago that you hadn't even seen the quote yourself but thought that you heard Chaim mention it once?   How can you be so sure about something which is a vague recollection?   So sure of it to not only call it "slander" but to also claim it's a blood libel (again, what does that mean?)  ?   This is not befitting you dbf.

Btw, name me those kahanists inside israel who would do a better job and what have they done compared to what he has done?  A whole lot of nothing.  Come on.

Michael Ben-Ari, Noam Federman, etc.

  [/quote]

And Michael Ben Ari achieved what that is on such a scale greater than Moshe Feiglin? 

Noam Federman is not a politician so it's not even relevant to this.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I will send Chaim a PM about this. He has given the exact quotes before on Ask JTF but I don't remember them verbatim. They were in one of Feiglin's books.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You said "kahanists" as if it's some kind of huge stable of people waiting to do something vast.  There is no such movement anymore, there are individuals out there who have point of views similar to Kahane (or were once his students), and Moshe Feiglin is one of those people actually.   There are also a bunch of people who call themselves "kahanists" but do nothing and achieve nothing.   In either case, if Moshe Feiglin achieved his plan it would be a great day in Jewish history.  The problem is it hasn't worked and probably won't within likud party.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I will send Chaim a PM about this. He has given the exact quotes before on Ask JTF but I don't remember them verbatim. They were in one of Feiglin's books.

Ok, but the fact that you thought Feiglin was secular shows that you really don't know who he is or what he's about.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I really thought that he was, my mistake.

[Secularbeliever]

"saint" in Hebrew is tzaddik. Baruch has been called "gever" and "hakodosh", & Yigal "hakanoy".

But "tzaddik" is generally reserved in unsere schprach for the exceptional like R.Kahane.

And there are real doubts whether Amir & Goldstein ever actually killed anybody!

How many people saw Amir kill Rabin?  Who killed the Arabs who died in the cave the night Goldstein went there and fired his weapon?  Conspiracy theories are not a way to deal with reality.

[Secularbeliever]

He's not much better than Lewinsky. He has denounced the Jewish saints Yigal Amir and Dr. Goldstein (may G-d avenge his blood).

G-d, not P*nis Lewinsky, has kept him from gaining any kind of power or influence because of how he has desecrated the name of those two holy martyrs.

So a great Jew who has worked and at times suffered for his beliefs is useless because he does not agree with assassinations and indiscriminate killing?  Chaim would tell you that Feiglin is a good Jew and a good man.  To hate someone every time you find something you disagree with is a hard way to go through life.  You end up hating everyone because there is always something you disagree on and you will always find it.

[muman613]

He's not much better than Lewinsky. He has denounced the Jewish saints Yigal Amir and Dr. Goldstein (may G-d avenge his blood).

G-d, not P*nis Lewinsky, has kept him from gaining any kind of power or influence because of how he has desecrated the name of those two holy martyrs.

So a great Jew who has worked and at times suffered for his beliefs is useless because he does not agree with assassinations and indiscriminate killing?  Chaim would tell you that Feiglin is a good Jew and a good man.  To hate someone every time you find something you disagree with is a hard way to go through life.  You end up hating everyone because there is always something you disagree on and you will always find it.

Bravo!

Yes, I too believe that Feiglin is a good Jew and his prayers are for a strong Jewish state in Eretz Yisroel. It is ludicrous to denigrate him for this. It is a pretty strong accusation that DBF makes.

 

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Moshe Feiglin is a good Jew but the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Feiglin has strenghtened the Likud by remaining in that evil traitorous party. Feiglin urges Israeli rightwingers to vote for the Likud.

Feiglin has also diverted many Jewish activists from working to build more Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria. Fieglin has convinced them to instead devote their time and energy and money to taking over the Likud, something which will never happen.

Fieglin has raised and spent millions of dollars on his futile campaigns. If JTF had that type of money, I believe we would already be a mass movement and Israel would be a different country.

We certainly must not hate Feiglin, G-d forbid, he is a good Jew and a loyal Jew. But we must recognize that his mistakes have cost the Jewish people dearly.

DBF is correct that Feiglin publicly condemned Dr. Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir. I consider Feiglin's condemnations to be appalling. In his book, "In A Place Where There Are No Men", Feiglin devotes an entire chapter (perek yud, Chapter 10) to "The Murder of Rabin". When Jewish heroes are willing to give their lives to save the Jewish people, I think it is despicable to condemn them. If Feiglin does not have the guts to defend them, then he should at least say nothing. But to condemn them is disgraceful, in my view.

I hope that Feiglin will finally realize that he has made a terrible mistake, G-d willing.

[Dr. Dan]

בס''ד

Moshe Feiglin is a good Jew but the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Feiglin has strenghtened the Likud by remaining in that evil traitorous party. Feiglin urges Israeli rightwingers to vote for the Likud.

Feiglin has also diverted many Jewish activists from working to build more Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria. Fieglin has convinced them to instead devote their time and energy and money to taking over the Likud, something which will never happen.

Fieglin has raised and spent millions of dollars on his futile campaigns. If JTF had that type of money, I believe we would already be a mass movement and Israel would be a different country.

We certainly must not hate Feiglin, G-d forbid, he is a good Jew and a loyal Jew. But we must recognize that his mistakes have cost the Jewish people dearly.

DBF is correct that Feiglin publicly condemned Dr. Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir. I consider Feiglin's condemnations to be appalling. In his book, "In A Place Where There Are No Men", Feiglin devotes an entire chapter (perek yud, Chapter 10) to "The Murder of Rabin". When Jewish heroes are willing to give their lives to save the Jewish people, I think it is despicable to condemn them. If Feiglin does not have the guts to defend them, then he should at least say nothing. But to condemn them is disgraceful, in my view.

I hope that Feiglin will finally realize that he has made a terrible mistake, G-d willing.

If haymin took over the knesset would you consider feiglin for a seat

[Yaakov Mendel]

Ron brought an interesting quote from Feiglin in a recent thread :

"Read Feiglin's book "In A Place With No People" chapter 10 ("The Murder of Rabin").

He condemns and smears him, saying: "I strongly condemn this criminal murder.." and "I couldn't sleep all night. A murder of a Prime Minister in Israel - the State of the Jews - was an impossible thing for me, beyond all imagination. For some reason I thought that it can't happen in our place. Something was destroyed in that night, when the Israeli society lost its innocence in the freezing smile of a psycopath." (page 168)"

Not exactly a Kahanist point of view... I agree that, at least, Feiglin should have kept silent. Condemning Amir in such a virulent way without saying a word about all the evil Rabin has done, starting with his prominent role in the Altalena massacre, is disgusting.

[Secularbeliever]

Consider the practical impact of Rabin's assassination.  Pro settler Jews have been marginalized.  One secular anti Oslo Jew noted that after the assassination he stopped seeing Jews without Kippahs at demonstrations.  If Feiglin is a well meaning Jew whose mistakes have cost us, Amir is the same on steroids.  Can someone tell me one positive result of Rabin's killing?

[wonga66]

The conspiracists will tell you that Rabin was actually on the verge of pulling out of Oslo, and that he was taken out by TPTB. In which case his death was a bad thing!

OTOH, Guzofsky stated at the time: "Who cares who killed Rabin! The main thing is that he's dead!"

Or to quote Stalin: "What's the problem? Kill the man!"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The conspiracists will tell you that Rabin was actually on the verge of pulling out of Oslo,

The only problem is, there is no evidence to support this.

[wonga66]

"PERES STAGE MANAGING RABIN'S MURDER
                                                                                 
         
       In remembrance of the 15th anniversary of the Rabin assassination on Nov. 4, an alternative explanation is floating widely around with the subject:hero rabin was murdered by peres for "peace".
     
The evidence is Rabin's newly rediscovered last speech to The Knesset, on October 5, 1995, in which he defies the Peres/Oslo "peace" process with the declaration that,
"We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines ...First and foremost, united Jerusalem ...as the capital of Israel, under Israeli sovereignty."
"The security border of the State of Israel will be located in the Jordan Valley... The establishment of blocs of settlements in Judea and Samaria, like the one in Gush Katif."       

My readers have read this claim from me for 13+ years and I didn't need specious Knesset evidence as sole proof. I caught and exposed Peres backstage, stage-directing the Rabin
hit. This series is merely a fraction of the evidence I sent to a Hebrew site:
http://conspil.com/2010/10/18/15rabin/




      Visit there even if you don't read Hebrew. You'll get much from all the photos. Follow the sequences of events:

   Photos 1 and 2 - Defying protocol, Peres precedes
Rabin, walks down the back steps of the rally, shakes a few hands, turns
right and walks some fifteen feet to Ibn Gvirol Street to greet more
well-wishers. 
   Photos 3,4 and 5- Peres returns and is headed towards his
car, the first limo in line, when he stops in front of Rabin's limo and
engages in a discussion with secret service personnel. We see an
ambulance a few feet from Rabin's vehicle. If anything were to happen to
the Prime Minister, trained paramedics were there to immediately tend to
him.
   Which is why Photo 6 is so significant. Rabin's scheduled
driver was replaced at the last minute by Menachem Damti. In this photo,
Peres deems it essential that he have a little talk with Rabin's driver.
Why? What could Peres possibly have said to Rabin's driver? "Now
drive carefully and make sure Yitzhak gets home safe and sound?"

      In fact, Peres called Damti to him for many reasons, but one was to make sure as soon as Rabin's bodyguard Yoram Rubin pushed him into the limo, that Damti took off to Ichilov Hospital, 2 minutes away. There could be no time for the paramedics to get to him first.
      Beating the paramedics to the punch required instantaneous reaction, because in photos 7 and 8, taken as soon as Amir's blank bullets were discharged at 9:30, two ambulance teams jumped into action within a fraction of a second.
      "