Author Topic: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism  (Read 2340 times)

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« on: November 26, 2010, 12:51:20 PM »
Everyone,

I accept responsibility for provoking the latest round of attacks on Catholicism--even though it was not my intention and I said so clearly in my OPs. My threads were meant SOLELY to criticize the politically-correct pandering the Vatican has done in the past couple days to the faggot and black lobbies regarding condoms and the AIDS issue. I considered this a shameful selling-out of core Catholic doctrine in order to appease the Nazi left. I did not mean to provoke a huge theological fight or to bring up past crimes of the RCC that most modern Catholics have nothing to do with. Rubystars was absolutely correct to demand an end to this.

In addition, I think that the couple of members who used this time as an excuse to fall into routine habits of bashing all Catholicism/Christianity are pretty low. I am not a Catholic, but I am a Christian, and Catholics are my fellow Christians, and I will stand up for them when attacked.

DBF.

Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 01:20:46 PM »
I don't think that even catholics follows the current pope so bashing the catholics based on the pope is logically defectice.

Offline muman613

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 01:27:17 PM »
DBF,

In my opinion your thread was not the one which caused my comments. I did not see your complaint as a bash against the religion.

The use of condoms issue is difficult to discuss. I think I understand why the RCC is against its use. Jewish faith has a similar law against its use. But I think it is reasonable to allow their use when a person is working in a business where they may be at risk for disease. Now you may say that their business is a business of sin... And maybe it is possible that their disease may be a punishment for their immoral lifestyle... But there may be an application of saving lives which may be able to repent in the future. Maybe the concept of Pikuie Nefesh {Saving a Life} is being applied in this case.

Anyway.... I am also sorry for saying something which seems to have been taken in a way I did not intend {although I also believe that you do not believe me}.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 01:33:39 PM »
Some women are FORCED into prostitution by albanian scum. They have every right to use condoms and shoot albanian nazi's.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 01:57:32 PM »
Maybe the Pope's reasoning was that people will continue to have sex no matter what, so they should, at the very least use condoms, which are better than nothing. 

Now I'm not a Catholic, but I know they're against the birth control pill, since it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself on the wall of a woman's uterus.  Their belief is that life begins the instant an egg is fertilized by a sperm, so the pill is in essence killing the fertilized egg. 

I've never heard anything about them being opposed to condoms (for married people).  The condom is just a barrier to the sperm.  And sperms by themselves are not human lives. 

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 02:03:20 PM »
Maybe the Pope's reasoning was that people will continue to have sex no matter what, so they should, at the very least use condoms, which are better than nothing. 

Now I'm not a Catholic, but I know they're against the birth control pill, since it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself on the wall of a woman's uterus.  Their belief is that life begins the instant an egg is fertilized by a sperm, so the pill is in essence killing the fertilized egg. 

I've never heard anything about them being opposed to condoms (for married people).  The condom is just a barrier to the sperm.  And sperms by themselves are not human lives. 

Lisa, not to split hairs but aren't you referring to the IUD (intra uterine device) that prevents implantation?  My understanding (and I am no expert) is that the pill prevents fertilization and therefore would in no way be equivalent to an abortion.
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Offline Sox7

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 02:09:01 PM »
Maybe the Pope's reasoning was that people will continue to have sex no matter what, so they should, at the very least use condoms, which are better than nothing. 

Now I'm not a Catholic, but I know they're against the birth control pill, since it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself on the wall of a woman's uterus.  Their belief is that life begins the instant an egg is fertilized by a sperm, so the pill is in essence killing the fertilized egg. 

I've never heard anything about them being opposed to condoms (for married people).  The condom is just a barrier to the sperm.  And sperms by themselves are not human lives. 

Lisa, not to split hairs but aren't you referring to the IUD (intra uterine device) that prevents implantation?  My understanding (and I am no expert) is that the pill prevents fertilization and therefore would in no way be equivalent to an abortion.

There is a "morning after" pill that blocks fertilization AND implantation. Therefore, theoretically, you could have a fertilized embryo (new life) and the pill will prevent it from sticking into the endometrium, so pregnancy never happens and it just gets flushed out with the menses.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 02:21:18 PM »
Secularbeliever, I'm not an OBGYN, but from what I've read, the pill makes certain changes to a woman's uterine lining so that a fertilized egg cannot implant itself there. It also suppresses ovulation. You can read more about it here:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_taking_birth_control_just_like_having_an_abortion

http://contraception.about.com/od/hormonalcontraception/f/howitworks.htm

The IUD, which is stands for intrauterine device is placed inside a woman's uterus.  Whereas the IUD also causes changes to the uterine lining which makes it very difficult for a fertilized egg to implant itself, it also kills sperm cells before they get to the eggs. 

 http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/intrauterine-device-iud-for-birth-control

Offline syyuge

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2010, 02:22:15 PM »
I feel happy for the mutually peaceful, mature and positive conclusions arrived. Thanx to all.
 ;D
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Offline eclactus the great

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2010, 02:24:05 PM »
So this catholic bashing was based on an arguments over PILLS? Maturity is recomended for some of the members here.

Offline cjd

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 03:39:42 PM »
No, DBF don't take so much on yourself in fact you were 100% correct in questioning they shift in policy by the Vatican for condom use... The thread went bad here
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,51101.msg482981.html#msg482981 
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Re: Vatican's Complete Sellout On Contraception Causes Widespread Outrage
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 01:52:30 AM »
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The RCC is a disgusting genocidal organization. Horrific persecution against Jews and Protestants and Orthodox Christians and even Muslims throughout history. Possibly even genocide against Jews (depending on how much the Nazis represented Catholic interests, many of them had Catholic roots) and definitely genocide against Orthodox Christians (WWII Croatia). It's a filthy organization full of gay pedophiles and mass-murdering beasts. Their views on condoms are irrelevant when they rape naive children (of their own parishoners!) during peacetime and exterminate "enemy" people during wartime.

Members with Sox7's background need to understand we are all here to work together.... Bashing the Pope and the RCC is not going to get much accomplished... The Pope is within his rights to change policy for his church without question... He is the voice of G-d here on earth for Roman Catholics... Most Catholics today do not blindly follow the Pope with his every decree however in this case I myself think the church is facing up to the seriousness of the problem and is doing whats best.
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Offline Sox7

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 03:44:17 PM »
No, DBF don't take so much on yourself in fact you were 100% correct in questioning they shift in policy by the Vatican for condom use... The thread went bad here
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,51101.msg482981.html#msg482981 
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Re: Vatican's Complete Sellout On Contraception Causes Widespread Outrage
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 01:52:30 AM »
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The RCC is a disgusting genocidal organization. Horrific persecution against Jews and Protestants and Orthodox Christians and even Muslims throughout history. Possibly even genocide against Jews (depending on how much the Nazis represented Catholic interests, many of them had Catholic roots) and definitely genocide against Orthodox Christians (WWII Croatia). It's a filthy organization full of gay pedophiles and mass-murdering beasts. Their views on condoms are irrelevant when they rape naive children (of their own parishoners!) during peacetime and exterminate "enemy" people during wartime.

Members with Sox7's background need to understand we are all here to work together.... Bashing the Pope and the RCC is not going to get much accomplished... The Pope is within his rights to change policy for his church without question... He is the voice of G-d here on earth for Roman Catholics... Most Catholics today do not blindly follow the Pope with his every decree however in this case I myself think the church is facing up to the seriousness of the problem and is doing whats best.

Fine. I'll stop.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 05:45:04 PM »
Maybe the Pope's reasoning was that people will continue to have sex no matter what, so they should, at the very least use condoms, which are better than nothing. 

Now I'm not a Catholic, but I know they're against the birth control pill, since it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself on the wall of a woman's uterus.  Their belief is that life begins the instant an egg is fertilized by a sperm, so the pill is in essence killing the fertilized egg. 

I've never heard anything about them being opposed to condoms (for married people).  The condom is just a barrier to the sperm.  And sperms by themselves are not human lives. 
Lisa, I'm not against birth control. I don't even think that everyone needs to or should have children. However, Catholic doctrine has for hundreds of years taught that no form of contraception other than periodic abstinence is acceptable, and that every single sex act must be open to procreation. I have never agreed with that but for the entire life of the church, that was their position and they stuck to it.

Now, just this week, under constant pressure from the queer and negro lobbies, the pope decided that it is okay for male prostitutes and black Africans to use condoms because AIDS is "the greater evil". I was disgusted at this politically-correct selling-out of doctrine. That was it. Period. That was the purpose of my thread. The pope could have used his power and influence to speak the truth--that AIDS is G-d's punishment for sodomy, but no, he didn't. He said what the NWO wanted him to.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2010, 06:31:16 PM »
All I have to say is that thank Gd Judaism's approach to all this is common sense.  Sex is not permitted outside of marriage and should be between a man and woman.  There is nothing in Judaism that sex should only be done for procreation, but also to fulfill a husband's duty to pleasuring his wife.  Thank Gd there is nothing much more to this nor compromise...I wish other religions can see it this way also, but oh well. To each their own.



Maybe the Pope's reasoning was that people will continue to have sex no matter what, so they should, at the very least use condoms, which are better than nothing. 

Now I'm not a Catholic, but I know they're against the birth control pill, since it prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself on the wall of a woman's uterus.  Their belief is that life begins the instant an egg is fertilized by a sperm, so the pill is in essence killing the fertilized egg. 

I've never heard anything about them being opposed to condoms (for married people).  The condom is just a barrier to the sperm.  And sperms by themselves are not human lives. 
Lisa, I'm not against birth control. I don't even think that everyone needs to or should have children. However, Catholic doctrine has for hundreds of years taught that no form of contraception other than periodic abstinence is acceptable, and that every single sex act must be open to procreation. I have never agreed with that but for the entire life of the church, that was their position and they stuck to it.

Now, just this week, under constant pressure from the queer and negro lobbies, the pope decided that it is okay for male prostitutes and black Africans to use condoms because AIDS is "the greater evil". I was disgusted at this politically-correct selling-out of doctrine. That was it. Period. That was the purpose of my thread. The pope could have used his power and influence to speak the truth--that AIDS is G-d's punishment for sodomy, but no, he didn't. He said what the NWO wanted him to.
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2010, 10:05:44 PM »
Yes, Dr. Dan, I do agree. I think that G-d gave us the book Song of Songs to celebrate (marital) sex and prove that it is not intrinsically about procreation.

That being said, I completely respect my Catholic brothers and sisters who feel differently--but I do not respect the Vatican being so cavalier about discarding 1,000+ years of core doctrine in order to suck up to the NWO and its faggot and schvartze organs.

Offline muman613

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2010, 10:37:33 PM »
Yes, Dr. Dan, I do agree. I think that G-d gave us the book Song of Songs to celebrate (marital) sex and prove that it is not intrinsically about procreation.

That being said, I completely respect my Catholic brothers and sisters who feel differently--but I do not respect the Vatican being so cavalier about discarding 1,000+ years of core doctrine in order to suck up to the NWO and its faggot and schvartze organs.

Well, actually the Jewish take is that the Song of Songs describes the intimate relationship between Hashem and the Jewish people, and the entire song is allegorical...

Quote
http://www.ou.org/chagim/pesach/shir.htm
“Shir HaShirim,” The Song of Songs, is one of the five “Megilot,” or Sacred Scrolls, that are part of the Hebrew Bible. It is a timeless allegory of the relationship between HaShem and the People of Israel, in terms of the love between a man and a woman. It is recited on “Pesach,” the Holiday that celebrates the liberation of the Jewish People from slavery in Egypt.

Quote
http://ohr.edu/explore_judaism/ask_the_rabbi/ask_the_rabbi/3158

This last idea is related to one of the many interpretations of a verse in Song of Songs, the allegorical and quintessential love song between G-d and the Jewish people. The verse states, “If you are stirred up, arouse the love until it is desirous” (2:7). The Hebrew word used here for desirous is “techpatz” which is related to “chefetz” which literally means “object”. Accordingly, the verse is giving powerful, practical advice on how to keep the flame burning, the explanation of the verse being as follows: If you are stirred to seek G-d, the way to maintain that arousal is by connecting it to tangible objects and acts – namely by taking upon yourself practical observance of the mitzvoth.

Quote
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/rosenzweig/archives/ekev58.htm

Chazal (an abbreviation for "our wise men [Rabbis] of blessed memory") teach us that the relationship between Hashem and Israel is compared to a marriage. When the Torah was given on Mt. Sinai, the covenant between Hashem and Israel was actually a marriage ceremony. Shir Hashirim (King Solomon's Song of Songs) portrays the relationship between two lovers as an allegory of the relationship between Hashem (the male) and Am Yisrael (the female).

But I agree that the Torah does not forbid contraception in marriage...

There is a commandment concerning spilling seed though, which needs to be considered.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2010, 10:43:53 PM »
I found this interesting discussion on this topic:



http://rabbibuchwald.njop.org/2005/10/24/bereishith-simchat-torah-5766-2005/

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The mitzvah of “p’roo ur’voo” also raises several issues regarding the prevailing attitude of Judaism toward sexuality. Many Christian sects believe that humankind is tainted by the “Original Sin” that stems from the perfidious relationship of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Later in Christian history, when the celibate class gained control of the so-called “kingdom,” all sex was deemed bad, and only celibacy was considered proper. Judaism, in stark contrast, considers procreation a mitzvah. While there are many concerns regarding sexual acts performed with improper intentions, Judaism generally views sexuality as holy and pure, especially if it is founded on holiness and purity. The Talmud actually teaches that when a sexual act is performed in the spirit of holiness, G-d Himself is present.

That procreation is a foremost feature or purpose of sexuality is clear from the prohibition of onanism, which is the wanton spilling of seed. This prohibition is derived from the text that describes the death of the sons of Judah (Genesis 38) who spilled their seed, rather than consummate the sexual act with their brother’s widow, since they knew that the child would not be called by their names.

This, of course, raises many difficult issues. Is having sex with a sterile or menopausal woman a waste of the male seed? Is one allowed to have sex with his pregnant wife, since the relationship can not result in the birth of a child?

The answers to these questions lie in a well-known verse that is found in Exodus 21:10, concerning the law of the Jewish maidservant. The verse states that if the master or his son betroths the Jewish maidservant, he may not treat her as a second-class wife, “Sh’ay’rah, k’soo’tah, v’oh’nah’tah lo yig’rah,” her food, her clothing and her sexual pleasure may not be diminished. From here our rabbis learn that a wife has the right to demand sexual pleasure, irrespective of whether the act can result in the birth of a child. In effect, the positive commandment of sexually pleasing one’s wife, overrides the negative commandment of wasting seed.

We see from the law of the Jewish maidservant, that not only is the sexual act a mitzvah, but providing pleasure during that act is a mitzvah, as well. Although there have been “Victorian” periods of Judaism, especially in the late 19th century, mainstream commentators all regard sexuality in Judaism as a positive force.

In Jewish life there are two ways of achieving immortality. One may achieve immortality by bearing children who follow in one’s religious and ethical path. However, not all people are fortunate enough to have children, and it is in this context that the Talmud (Sanhedrin 19b) states: “Kol ha’m'la’mayd et ben cha’vay’ro Torah…k’ee’loo y’la’doh,” anyone who teaches Torah to his neighbor’s child, it is as if he physically bore that child.
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Explaining My Threads On Catholicism
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2010, 03:03:22 AM »
It doesn't really matter to me what either the Catholic Church or Judaism believe on the matter... what does matter is that a teaching over a thousand years old is just thrown out the window because we have to make niceynice with the queers and negro savages that screw everything that moves.