Jan 16th: A Kahanist Jew Answers Back

[Irish Zionist]

12th video 

[JTFenthusiast2]

Great videos IZ.  I look forward to re-hearing Chaim's responses each week!

[Yaakov Mendel]

I would like to make the following suggestion : from a political point of view, I think it's not a good idea to say that the world should support Israel because it's G-d's commandment. The reason why I am saying this is because it's a fact that : 1) Many people do not believe in G-d; 2) Many people do not believe in the Bible. In the West and, more importantly, in Israel, secular minds will resent this argument. We cannot afford to alienate the support of non-religious people, because they make up the majority of the citizens of Western societies, including in Israel itself, and they may support us for many other reasons if we don't scare them away by giving them the impression that we stand for religious dogmatism. There's plenty of arguments we can use other than religious ones to win them over to our political agenda. And we all know that Rabbi Meir Kahane loved the Jewish people as a whole, and wanted to save all Jews, religious or not, with the hope, of course, that they would turn back to the Torah later.

I hope you understand that I'm not criticizing the belief expressed by Chaim (which I share), I'm only talking from the point of view of political communication, which we cannot ignore if we want to take power and save Israel.

[eb22]

Excellent video!    Thanks,  Bryan and Chaim!

[TruthSpreader]

Thank you, Bryan and Chaim!

[Meerkat]

I would like to make the following suggestion : from a political point of view, I think it's not a good idea to say that the world should support Israel because it's G-d's commandment. The reason why I am saying this is because it's a fact that : 1) Many people do not believe in G-d; 2) Many people do not believe in the Bible. In the West and, more importantly, in Israel, secular minds will resent this argument. We cannot afford to alienate the support of non-religious people, because they make up the majority of the citizens of Western societies, including in Israel itself, and they may support us for many other reasons if we don't scare them away by giving us the impression that we stand for religious dogmatism. There's plenty of arguments we can use other than religious ones to win them over to our political agenda. And we all know that Rabbi Meir Kahane loved the Jewish people as a whole, and wanted to save all Jews, religious or not, with the hope, of course, that they would turn back to the Torah later.

I hope you understand that I'm not criticizing the belief expressed by Chaim (which I share), I'm only talking from the point of view of political communication, which we cannot ignore if we want to take power and save Israel.

i will 2nd that statement. i myself am a secularist, and while i don't feel alienated by the people here, i do think that it is wise to broaden the audience  to other secularists that might otherwise not join

[muman613]

So you secularists... Can you explain why the 'Jewish people' should be in Israel and not in Uganda?

There is absolutely zero reason for Jews to live in Israel except for the commandment for Jews to live there. If they are not going to identify as the 'Jewish people' they should live in some other country...

[Yaakov Mendel]

So you secularists... Can you explain why the 'Jewish people' should be in Israel and not in Uganda?

There is absolutely zero reason for Jews to live in Israel except for the commandment for Jews to live there. If they are not going to identify as the 'Jewish people' they should live in some other country...

My point is that it’s politically suicidal to tell people who do not believe in the Bible : “You must support the Kahanists because G-d tells you to”. But you can convince them to support the Kahanists for many other reasons (because only the Kahanists will bring security to Israel, because only the Kahanists tell the truth about Islam, etc.).
How can zionism be justified on non-religious grounds ? I think you can refer to the fact that the Jews are a nation and that the Land of Israel is their historical homeland (not Uganda), where they have maintained a continuous presence for thousands of years, even after they were massacred and expelled by the Romans, then by the Muslims. It was the Jews who turned the desert into a garden and resettled and rebuilt the Land of Israel and made it what it is today. They deserve the Land. Also, a secularist will agree that the Arabs have lost whatever claim they may have had to the Land (from his/her non-religious point of view)  by repeatedly refusing to share the Land and responding to the peace offers of the Jews by wars of aggression and terror. Then, a case is easily made that Israel cannot survive in the “Auschwitz borders”, which implies controlling Judea and Samaria. That is something the world and the non-Torah Jews can hear.
The fact is that we won't take back Israel and save Israel if we ignore the way non-Torah Jews think.

[muman613]

It is not a coincidence that today in the papers the very concept which I suggested is repeated... Why do the Jews need to be in Israel?

http://thecitizen.co.tz/editorial-analysis/-/7427-is-israel-the-only-possible-homeland-for-jews

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Could all this have been avoided?  There were alternative places for the Jews to create their own state- some in the British government and in the Jewish leadership in the early years of the last century thought Uganda and Argentina were possibilities. At that time, before polls admittedly, one could say that a majority of Jews would have preferred one of those, rather than displacing Arabs. Unlike the Zionists they were not beholden to the idea of “the land of milk and honey” being on Arab land.

For generation upon generation the Jews in the Diaspora, whether they lived in Muslim or Christian lands, passed a peaceful life. From time to time there were pogroms in the Christian world, but not the Muslim, when local feelings got out of control. But by and large, over nearly two millennia, they were on a small scale. Jews were mostly content to live in the Diaspora. Only when Hitler (pictured) arrived and the Holocaust began did a large number of European Jews yearn to go to Israel and join the few idealists who had settled before. Without that influx Israel would never have become the threat to the Palestinian Arabs that it is today.  

By and large, Jews didn’t believe it was their Biblical destiny to settle in Palestine and for the more thoughtful ones, who read the ancient texts with an open mind, the original push by Moses, leading the Jewish people out of bondage in Egypt, was not a history they felt obliged to repeat. After all Moses had made his way clear to “the promised land” by genocide.

This article was written by an ignoramus.. To claim that Moses and the Jewish people took the land through Genocide is ridiculous. The midianites were hostile to the Jews from the get-go and they deserved what they got...

[Yaakov Mendel]

If someone doesn't accept our position just because they don't believe in G-d or the Bible, then we can just say that they must be immoral people who don't have the Jews' best interest at heart.  

That is true. Still, it's in our interest, and therefore in Israel's interest, not to let the Israelis think that being a Torah observant Jew is a necessary condition to support Kahanists.

[Eden Ben Yitzchak]

Great video

[Meerkat]

If someone doesn't accept our position just because they don't believe in G-d or the Bible, then we can just say that they must be immoral people who don't have the Jews' best interest at heart.  If they don't believe in G-d then we clearly can't trust their conscience to know the difference between right and wrong.  If they don't believe in G-d their judgment on the subject will be skewed toward evil in some way.  On the other hand, I do think that even without G-d in the picture, there are many valid reasons to support Israel.

please don't go there, half of my family is either atheist or agnostic and they are nowhere near immoral.

yaakov, i totally agree with you here. we won't gain much support if the only thing that legitimizes our position is the bible. there is definitely more secular means to legitimize our position.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think you guys should raise these points on ask jtf. 

[Yaakov Mendel]

I think you guys should raise these points on ask jtf. 

Done !