What will happen in Egypt?

[cjd]

Im worried about more Islamo-refugees from these hell-holes. This is the last thing the civilized world needs.

I am concerned for Israel in this situation but honestly this is something that has worldwide implications... The stock market here in the U.S has already taken a hit and oil prices are on the rise... Economics being what they are in the world something like this could be a key factor in causing major monetary problems throughout...This is a situation that is going to get far worse before it gets any better and the collateral damage may not be worth the outcome.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Why do you guys have so little faith? What if the outcome is like the fall of communism in Eastern Europe?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Why do you guys have so little faith? What if the outcome is like the fall of communism in Eastern Europe?

Faith in what?

(Or, faith in whom?)


When the Israeli regime is what it is, there is nothing but pessimism for a situation like this if a person is intellectually honest with himself.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Faith in what?

(Or, faith in whom?)


When the Israeli regime is what it is, there is nothing but pessimism for a situation like this if a person is intellectually honest with himself.

Faith in H" and His Redemption. H" 's ways are beyond our limited views. We never know when Redemtion comes. It may be now. It may also delay a long time. We just don't know. But why so much political analysis with our limited human intellect? Why has nobody thought of mircales?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Faith in H" and His Redemption. H" 's ways are beyond our limited views. We never know when Redemtion comes. It may be now. It may also delay a long time. We just don't know. But why so much political analysis with our limited human intellect? Why has nobody thought of mircales?

What is the point to talking about miracles BEFORE they happen?   We're forbidden to rely on miracles and we have to stay focused on our pragmatic goals which include taking down the Israeli regime.   Let's not let a bit of chaos distract us from what is important - the fact that the Israeli leadership is destroying our people.   

[cjd]

Faith in what?

(Or, faith in whom?)


When the Israeli regime is what it is, there is nothing but pessimism for a situation like this if a person is intellectually honest with himself.

I agree this is not a good development for Israel... Leadership issues aside Israel will be dealing with a much more contentious foe in the future should the muslim brotherhood gain power as it most likely will... Just reading the "wickedpedia" article on them is enough to paint a grim picture for Israel but also the world... I can see problems starting over issues dealing with the Suez Canal that will have major worldwide implications... Plainly speaking what's happening is not good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

[Raulmarrio2000]

What is the point to talking about miracles BEFORE they happen?   We're forbidden to rely on miracles and we have to stay focused on our pragmatic goals which include taking down the Israeli regime.   Let's not let a bit of chaos distract us from what is important - the fact that the Israeli leadership is destroying our people.   

I didn't suggest that Jews should rely on miracles before they happen or stop working for their survival in the meanwhile. But why has nobody thought about Redemption? Redemption will be, in fact, by miracle. And Jews expect and pray for it everyday.

[cjd]

I didn't suggest that Jews should rely on miracles before they happen or stop working for their survival in the meanwhile. But why has nobody thought about Redemption? Redemption will be, in fact, by miracle. And Jews expect and pray for it everyday.

How does what is going on in Egypt translate into any form of redemption? I have to say I am at a loss here to understand this.

[eb22]

Faith in what?

(Or, faith in whom?)


When the Israeli regime is what it is, there is nothing but pessimism for a situation like this if a person is intellectually honest with himself.

I completely agree.     What makes the situation even worse is Barack Hussein Obama will be occupying the Oval Office until at least January,  2013 unless something unexpected happens.    

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I agree this is not a good development for Israel... Leadership issues aside Israel will be dealing with a much more contentious foe in the future should the muslim brotherhood gain power as it most likely will... Just reading the "wickedpedia" article on them is enough to paint a grim picture for Israel but also the world... I can see problems starting over issues dealing with the Suez Canal that will have major worldwide implications... Plainly speaking what's happening is not good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

Indeed.  And your point is well taken that this chaos will also cause economic turmoil and major chaos for the United States and rest of the world as well.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I didn't suggest that Jews should rely on miracles before they happen or stop working for their survival in the meanwhile. But why has nobody thought about Redemption? Redemption will be, in fact, by miracle. And Jews expect and pray for it everyday.

Actually, there are two opinions about redemption.  One view in chazal is that it happens naturally and step by step.   If we view the founding of Israel as the beginning of this process, I think it's clear what vision turned out more congruous with actual events we have experienced in our times.  Certainly the events are "miraculous" in an ultimate sense, being that God is behind it all and arranged them, but more along the lines of the Purim miracle in the sense that they unfolded through natural events.   And I think that is the mode in which redemption will continue, given its beginning.

[wonga66]

If Obama is not resolute in using US forces to keep the Suez Canal open, he could be seen as too much of a dangerous closet-muslim wimp by US generals, leading to a coup in the US itself!  

[cjd]

If Obama is not resolute in using US forces to keep the Suez Canal open, he could be seen as too much of a dangerous closet-muslim wimp by US generals, leading to a coup in the US itself! 

There are many schools of thought that seem to think that this is just where all this is headed... As with what is happening in Egypt this would be the worse possible scenario... The best thing for America is to make it to 2012 and vote the animal as well as some others out of office... As is mostly the case what comes in after most of this coup nonsense is worse then what went out... Money situations being what they are here in the U.S right now something like that would really open a Pandora's box.

[Raulmarrio2000]

How does what is going on in Egypt translate into any form of redemption? I have to say I am at a loss here to understand this.

Any change could lead to Redemption, or not. We never know. During the Gulf War in 91, Chabd said it might lead to Redemption.
Now, Egypt and Jordan are the immediate neighrs of Israel. Any change in those countries, would affect Israel, either for the good or the bad. We don't know yet. What if an unexpected peacefull deomocracy appears, and Islamic bigotry together with Arab nationalism meets the same fate of Communism, and both disappear as communism did? What if Egypt and Jordan decide to give a place in their countries to Arabs who now live in Eretz Yisra'el? What if those protesting youngster in Egypt, eager for progress and freedom become suddenly ardent pro-Israel?

[cjd]

Any change could lead to Redemption, or not. We never know. During the Gulf War in 91, Chabd said it might lead to Redemption.
Now, Egypt and Jordan are the immediate neighrs of Israel. Any change in those countries, would affect Israel, either for the good or the bad. We don't know yet. What if an unexpected peacefull deomocracy appears, and Islamic bigotry together with Arab nationalism meets the same fate of Communism, and both disappear as communism did? What if Egypt and Jordan decide to give a place in their countries to Arabs who now live in Eretz Yisra'el? What if those protesting youngster in Egypt, eager for progress and freedom become suddenly ardent pro-Israel?

I am not well versed on what could bring on redemption so I wont impose my views on others past the point of saying that in my opinion the present situation in Egypt does not seem to fit that picture... As far as Jordan or Egypt opening their borders to Arabs living in Israel we both know that won't happen and if it did most Arabs in Israel would not want to go... We have a few opinions going in the thread on the Egypt / redemption issue now it might be interesting to see a few more as the day progresses.

[Dan]

I haven't been following the events in Egypt as close but it seems to me that it's a Loose-Loose situation and with Obama in charge it can only get worse.

[Raulmarrio2000]

According to international laws, Arabs living in Gaza are entitled to Egyptian citizenship, and those living in the Yehuda and Shoron to Jordanian one. No democratic Govt. could easily deny them that right. As for them wanting to move or not, even now, many of them are craving to leave and say it opnely. If we add those, who are not so eager but would accept to move, and those who may be afraid of answering a survey, I think more than two thirds would leave if they have a place to go. Eretz Yisraèl has nothing to offer them. In this modern world, either you are a First World society or starve in EY. There is no intermediate option. They know very well, that they could never reach the level of Israelis in one or two generations, and young people want a better life NOW. Not an Arab pride utopia for the distant future! The very same fact that Arab fundamentalist regimes deny them citizenship, proves that. They know very well that, if citizenship is granted to those Arabs, they would move and the conflict would be over in a few months.

[Muck DeFuslims]

What will happen in Egypt ?

That's fairly obvious. Mubarak will fall, sooner or later.

What replaces him is a little less obvious, but we can be relatively certain the Mooozie Brotherhood IslamoNazis will expand in power by filling the vaccuum left in Mubarak's wake.

What are the ramifications for Israel and America should this eventuality come to pass ?

Here in America the leftist media will portray the Egyptian 'revolutionaries' as 'freedom fighters' aspiring for greater civil rights, better jobs and economic opportunity, as well as opponents of corruption.

It won't matter that these so called 'freedom fighters' will almost certainly bring about an Islamic theocracy even more bereft of personal liberty, economic opportunity, and a regime every bit as corrupt as the Mubarak entity.

The same idiots that voted for Obama will easily be brainwashed by the media into supporting the 'new' Egypt. American aid will pour in to help the fledgling 'democracy' even as it's citizenry and legislative bodies chant 'death to the little satan, Israel  -and the great satan, America'.

The Egyptian koranimals will press harder than ever for the Arab right to wipe the 'zionist entity' off the map and re-establish Arab/Islamic hegemony over the land the Jews unjustly stole from them.

How will Israel and America respond to these demands ?

Given the present occupant of the White House, it is almost a foregone conclusion that America will attempt to appease the IslamoNazis and there will be increased pressure on Israel to make suicidal concessions.

Given the present leadership in Israel, it is almost a foregone conclusion that Israel will cave in to these suicidal demands.

Not a pretty picture.

[Maimonides]

If Obama is not resolute in using US forces to keep the Suez Canal open, he could be seen as too much of a dangerous closet-muslim wimp by US generals, leading to a coup in the US itself!  

The whole Suez Canal issue is overblown. From 1967-1975 the Suez Canal was blocked by Egypt, because Israel refused to give up the Sinai. For 8 YEARS the Egyptians blocked the Suez Canal, and NO ONE DID ANYTHING, so it is unlikely that something will be done now. It was not the end of the world then, and it is certainly not the end of the world now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal#Arab-Israeli_wars_of_1967_and_1973

After the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, also called the Six Day War, the canal was closed by an Egyptian blockade until 5 June 1975. As a result, fourteen cargo ships known as "The Yellow Fleet" remained trapped in the canal for over eight years.

[cjd]

The whole Suez Canal issue is overblown. From 1967-1975 the Suez Canal was blocked by Egypt, because Israel refused to give up the Sinai. For 8 YEARS the Egyptians blocked the Suez Canal, and NO ONE DID ANYTHING, so it is unlikely that something will be done now. It was not the end of the world then, and it is certainly not the end of the world now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal#Arab-Israeli_wars_of_1967_and_1973

Back in the late 60's and early 70's America got a great deal less of it's oil from the middle east...Now days sadly its quite a different picture...Added to the mix is there are a great many more people bidding on whatever oil is around....A great deal has change in almost 40 years and not much for the better... As far as nothing being done that may well be the case however the worlds need for oil may force them to act if some sort of disruption happens.

[wonga66]

With today's parlous "just in time" ordering and stocktaking, a return to the pre-Suez era will drive some companies, and even countries, to ruin.



Israel under Mubarak could send its corvettes through the Canal to reinforce the Red Sea in 2 days. Now it will take a month trip right round Africa. Can you imagine the Muslim Brotherhood allowing US supply ships and aircraft carriers on their way to the Persian Gulf to sail through the Canal?! If Mubarak flees and if the US+NATO doesn't seize the Canal Zone within days, then it's a new world order, as the Zohar (Vaera) predicted:

"In time to come the descendants of Yishmoel will stir up tremendous battles in the world, and compel the descendants of Edom to gather against them to fight by sea, on the land, and near Jerusalem. From whence do they derive ther z'chus? For 400 years the Supernal Sar (angelic guardian) of Yishmoel beseeched Hashem that his earthbound wards be given a share in His Name. Instead, the Yishmoelim were detached from their share in Heaven, and in the merit of their miloh they were given a share in Eretz Yisroel....and until that merit is exhausted they will be allowed to harry the Bnei Yisroel and impede their return to the land".

[Raulmarrio2000]

With the probable exception of Hamas in Gazah (though it was a putch rather a revolution), no Islamic revolution has ever succeeded in a Semite country. Islamic teocracies flourished in Iran, Afaganistan and many other non-Semitic countries. All dictatorships among Arabs have been partially secular. Kaddaffi, Huseein, Al Asad, Nasser, are/were all secular. Islam seems to be weak amomg Arab Semites, it simply fades away as soon as they become in touch with other cultures or open to the world. In Latin America, there are millions of Arabs, and very few keep Islam. Most Muslims here are non-Arab converts. Now, I doubt Egyptians would turn down Mubarak to replace him with another secular dictator. If Egypt chooses a new path, many things could change but it's too early to say.

[wonga66]

Meanwhile, according to Debka, Gaza has invaded Egypt!
http://www.debka.com/article/20608/

With the UN Observer Force out of Sinai, it is up for grabs, and smuggling in to Gaza of HEAVY rockets will now continue unimpeded apace. Gaza alone could destroy Israel with rockets!

[muman613]

Here is another perspective:

http://jewishendofdays.wordpress.com/

Why Arab Dictators Are Falling

Egypt’s anti-government demonstrations continue unabated.  So, what’s the point here, spiritually speaking?

As described in previous posts, one major reason why HaShem is allowing the Nations’ plot to divide E”Y to move forward is so that the Nations completely lose any merit that justifies their further dominion.

In fact, all End of Days events are intended, in large or small part, to increase the Nations’ guilt so that their ultimate punishment is just and true.  One must keep in mind that we are talking about their final punishment, so they must really be guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt whatsoever.

This principal is in application here. For years,  the State of Israel (SOI) has been arguing to the Nations that making a “peace agreement” with the Pals is dangerous and highly risky because they PA does not represent the Arab peoples’ will. There is a huge apparent risk that the SOI can make a deal today with a Pal faction that is gone tomorrow.

Of course, this is hugely apparent because it actually did happen, with Hamas, the democratically elected Arab regime who overthrew the corrupt unelected PA in Gaza.  But the Nations continue to press, claiming the PA in the West Bank is “different”. They argue that the Jews’ claim that the PA are risky partners for piece is a false excuse which proves the SOI is not acting in good faith.

The Nations Continue To Accumulate Guilt

Of course, given what happened in Gaza with Hamas, the Nations’ argument is disingenuous and evil.  And now, with the Arab rebellions, the argument is all the more so disingenuous and evil.

The most “stable” Arab government of all, Egypt, is threatened. Most likely, Mubarak will make a graceful exit, a military proxy (Suleiman) will take over in the interim, and the Muslim Brotherhood will become a legal and highly influential faction in Egyptian government.  The Muslim Brotherhood will, however, temper its “perceived influence” enough so that the nation will continue receiving top-shelf modern armaments from America.

Notwithstanding Egypt’s example of tyrants replaced by Islamic fundamentalists, the Nations will continue to press the SOI to make Peace by Suicide with the PA, who is so clearly headed down a similar path. And thus, the nations accumulate even greater and more damning guilt.

In the Court of Heaven, there is a finely tuned process of judgment continually operating. Ultimately, the Nations’ accumulated guilt will be so great and heavy that justice will dictate their ultimate horrific punishment and downfall, notwithstanding the Jewish peoples’ current spiritual condition.

In essence, the Nations’ guilt serves to help tip the scales to a “redemption point” that Jewish merit is unable to achieve on its own.  The downfall of the Nations is thus, in a very real sense, caused “by their own hand.”

[Maimonides]

Back in the late 60's and early 70's America got a great deal less of it's oil from the middle east...Now days sadly its quite a different picture...Added to the mix is there are a great many more people bidding on whatever oil is around....A great deal has change in almost 40 years and not much for the better... As far as nothing being done that may well be the case however the worlds need for oil may force them to act if some sort of disruption happens.

There are plenty of other places to get oil, such as Latin America, Africa, Canada etc.. In addition we now are pursuing alternative sources of energy. This situation can help make the world less dependent on Arab Oil, which is a good development. Going to war over the Suez Canal, and trying to occupy an Arab country will only lead to another disaster like Iraq.