'Israel to Become a Religious State in 19 Years'

[Irish Zionist]

 

Listen to this fool 


Published: 04/03/11, 10:50 PM / Last Update: 04/03/11, 10:54 PM
'Israel to Become a Religious State in 19 Years'
 
by Maayana Miskin
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Professor Arnon Sofer, chair of Geo-strategy at the University of Haifa, has published a report predicting a religious majority in Israel by 2030. The change could lead to various outcomes, Sofer said, including the tragic demise of the Jewish state and a return to exile.

His study assumed natural growth of 6-7% in the hareidi-religious sector, which would lead to a hareidi population of more than one million by 2030.

In one possible outcome, he said, the secular majority would band together in time to create a “secular revolution.” If not, Sofer said, the rise of a religious majority would lead to increasing poverty, and would force the secular minority to learn to live in a religious world.

A third possible outcome would be the annexation of Judea and Samaria, which Sofer predicted would lead to “the continued weakening of democracy in the face of anti-democratic forces, a Knesset that does not function, and growing anarchy.”

Sofer assumed that the hareidi-religious population would continue to have relatively low employment despite demographic changes. “As the hareidi population grows, so does the gap between the hareidi population and the rest of the country, and greater sums are necessary in order to close that gap. The difference in participation in the work force not only creates a complete dependency on the working class, but also a growing inequality, dissatisfaction, bitterness... among tax-payers,” he declared.

Other changes Sofer predicted in case of a religious majority: a school system that teaches Torah, a justice system based in Jewish law (halacha), and the disappearance of many of today's popular entertainment programs.

The changes would lead many secular Israelis to leave the country, he said.

He called to prevent the scenarios he predicted by forcing all schools to teach democratic and Western values. “If the decision-makers do not wake up, the Zionist vision will reach a tragic end with the people of Israel's return to exile, to again face anti-Semitism and assimilation,” he concluded.

Professor Sofer has published similarly gloomy predictions in the past, including a famous 1987 claim that by 2000 Israel would no longer be a Jewish state. Israel maintains a strong Jewish majority of 80%, similar to the situation when Sofer's prediction was made.

    

[TheCoon]

You can bet these secular anti-Jews will take the children of religious parents and brainwash them like they did to sefardim. Zionism to these kikes is simply America in the middle east. They do not believe in God or believe in biblical Israel at all. They need to be destroyed as the arabs do.

[Irish Zionist]

You can bet these secular anti-Jews will take the children of religious parents and brainwash them like they did to sefardim. Zionism to these kikes is simply America in the middle east. They do not believe in G-d or believe in biblical Israel at all. They need to be destroyed as the arabs do.

Are you calling for genocide of Jews? Think before you make such statements as "Kike" and destroyed along with the arabs. These are still G-d's chosen people and most are just confused because they aren't hearing the truth.

[TheCoon]

Are you calling for genocide of Jews? Think before you make such statements as "Kike" and destroyed along with the arabs. These are still G-d's chosen people and most are just confused because they aren't hearing the truth.

Go [censored] yourself. You know I was not calling for genocide of Jews yet you say such things.

[Irish Zionist]

They need to be destroyed as the arabs do.

Ok explain this quote to me.

[Meerkat]

You can bet these secular anti-Jews will take the children of religious parents and brainwash them like they did to sefardim. Zionism to these kikes is simply America in the middle east. They do not believe in G-d or believe in biblical Israel at all. They need to be destroyed as the arabs do.

f**k you, i am secular. and you are basically calling for the destruction of most of the people this forum tries to protect. both R. Kahane and chaim ben pesach sat in jail for their efforts to liberate the jews of eastern europe, a massive portion of who are atheists and agnostics or simply non-observant.  if by secular you mean leftists, than f**k you for putting all secular people in israel in the same category. heck, we shouldn't go after the (typical)leftists anyway, the typical leftist in N.T"A probably would be able to see the light.

[Dr. Dan]

Ironic how these secular self hating Jews are more afraid of Torah observant haredi Jews than with murdering Arab Muslim Nazis.

Be'ezrat Hashem, Israel will become a true Torah state with Halacha as its laws.  It's a start...With Torah observant Jews, Kahanists like Chaim, can convince them, if not by that time, the additional importance of respectability.

[wonga66]

Ceteris paribus, which is unlikely, by 2030, R.Kahane will have been dead 40 years.

Chaim too will likely be gone.

As will Lenny, Sackett, Feiglin, Mike, Baruch etc etc.

No one short of the Moshiach will have risen to replace them.

The Haredim also will have produced no more genuine tzaddikim or gedolim.

The Erev Rav/Amolek sheb'Erev Rav, facing extinction by then, will rather liquidate the State of Israel, than see the Orthodox take it over.

Hashem may call it quits, end the current universe, and commence His next Millennial Jubilee cycle: "This is not the best of all possible worlds. But it is the best of all possible ways to the best of all possible worlds!"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ceteris paribus, which is unlikely, by 2030, R.Kahane will have been dead 40 years.

Chaim too will likely be gone.

As will Lenny, Sackett, Feiglin, Mike, Baruch etc etc.

Bite your tongue you rasha!

[Yaakov Mendel]

It is a fact that the proportion of religious Jews is quickly increasing in Israel due to high birth rates.

For the moment, a lot of Haredim refuse to go to the army and do not work (men study and pray, while women raise children and sometimes take on part time jobs). It's possible as long as others take care of Israel's military and economy, but what would Israel become if every Israeli Jew lived this way ?

Of course I understand the reluctance of religious Jews to go to Tsahal. We've already discussed that many times and you know I don't like the way Tsahal is run and operates today either. My question is : when Israel replaces Tsahal with a true Jewish army, can religious Jews continue to refuse to go the army, especially if they are the majority of Israel's population ? Likewise, can they continue to study and pray all day ? I mean, I have the highest respect for their spiritual activity, but how is Israel going to sustain a modern economy ? These are true issues that need to be addressed. Obviously I am not saying that the solution is to crack down on orthodox Jews and Judaism and this is where I disagree with Arnon Sofer. But you can't turn Israel into one big bustling Yeshiva either. Israel needs entrepreneurs, Israel needs scientists, and of course Israel needs soldiers.

[ProJewGreekChristian]

wow, quite a lot of name calling on this thread, no?

[Zelhar]

Prophesor Sofer is a good expert in demographics and a very bad expert in political prediction. His 1987 claim which ridiculed in the article was actually quiet accurate. The only reason the Jewish majority in Israel was sustained (in fact it still eroded a bit) at close to 80%, is that between 1985 to 2000 there was an influx of about 1 million olim mainly from the former USSR.

If you count the Arab muslim nazis of Yesha who aren't Israeli citizens, then between the Jordan to the Mediterranean, the number of Jews is pretty much equal to the number of Arab muslim Nazis living in Israel.

As the Charedim increase in numbers and proportion to the general population, they must adopt themselves to this situation too and hopefully they are not as unreasonable people as Sofer thinks they are.

[wonga66]

The Russians came just in time, as in 1985 yerida was running at 35,000 per year.

There are c1million Israeli citizens living outside of Israel, including very many criminals.

If there was a world crisis, it would be interesting to see what would happen if they all suddenly tried to get back in to Israel.

[Dr. Dan]

Wonga, bite your tongue what you said of Chaim...he might outlive you!

[Dr. Dan]

The Russians came just in time, as in 1985 yerida was running at 35,000 per year.

There are c1million Israeli citizens living outside of Israel, including very many criminals.

If there was a world crisis, it would be interesting to see what would happen if they all suddenly tried to get back in to Israel.

There are still potential olim that may come from the galut.  5-6 million Jews (even if many are self hating) live in the United States and at this rate, the US is becoming uninhabitable for Jews...and I'm sure will become worse even for the self-hating ones who would consider finding safe haven in Israel by 2030...if that's the case, this buys the secular Israelis time keep the secular state.

[Meerkat]

i say eliminate indefinite welfare so that people can't live off the state forever. im fine if the haredim choose to study torah all day after getting home from work, but we cannot sustain a modern economy with a big part of the population not working.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Israel never was and never will be a Jewish state but a mere pathetic self-hating ghetto that stole the name "Israel" and made it a synonym for desecration of G-d's Name. Rise up state of Judea

[Secularbeliever]

5-6 million Jews (even if many are self hating) live in the United States and at this rate, the US is becoming uninhabitable for Jews...<<

How do you figure the USA is becoming uninhabitable for Jews?

[Meerkat]

5-6 million Jews (even if many are self hating) live in the United States and at this rate, the US is becoming uninhabitable for Jews...<<

How do you figure the USA is becoming uninhabitable for Jews?

rising antisemitism.
not so much in the USA yet but definately in europe. france, belgium, holland, and swedem are being raped by islam and jews are leaving those areas for israel. france has the world's 3rd largest jewish community.

[muman613]

Israel will fulfill the destiny which the Prophets related to our forefathers. I don't see any other scenario as being possible. It may or may not occur in our lifetime. I also STRONGLY disagree with Wonga concerning the possibility Hashem will give up on his children, his beloved people of Israel. There is absolutely NO WAY that is an option because Hashem has, on numerous occasions, come close to allowing us to be destroyed, but he always holds out hope for a righteous Jew. He will never completely destroy us. He made this promise at the end of the Tochacha in the Chumash... I have quoted this here many times and will not do it again, unless someone asks...

[Dr. Dan]

5-6 million Jews (even if many are self hating) live in the United States and at this rate, the US is becoming uninhabitable for Jews...<<

How do you figure the USA is becoming uninhabitable for Jews?

Well, for one thing, the change in US policy against Israel.
Secondly, the number of Muslim influx.
Thirdly, the number of third world influx.

Take all three, and you have animals running around the country and politicians who will be willing to sell their souls for their votes.  These uneducated animals will be anti semetic and very violent and will blame the Jews for their suffering.  These animals will become a majority...therefore making the US uninhabitable for Jews.

Iran went through a similar change..and then bang, the revolution happened.

Germany went through a similar change, and then bang, the holocaust.

Look at cities in the US that used to be inhabitated by Jews, such as Newark, NJ. It used to be a lush area with a low crime rate and good businesses.  When animals moved into the neighborhood, Jews moved out and look at the hell hole it is today.  Not even 100 million dollars by Zuckerberg will change anything.

The US as a whole is going in that direction...Jews will move out if that happens.

btw...leaving the galut is not a bad thing...just difficult to do.

[Secularbeliever]

Look at cities in the US that used to be inhabitated by Jews, such as Newark, NJ. It used to be a lush area with a low crime rate and good businesses<<

I think you might be stretching your point.  Newark has not been decent for at least 50 years.  The only thing that would make the USA uninhabitable for Jews would be a severe economic crisis.

[Dr. Dan]

Look at cities in the US that used to be inhabitated by Jews, such as Newark, NJ. It used to be a lush area with a low crime rate and good businesses<<

I think you might be stretching your point.  Newark has not been decent for at least 50 years.  The only thing that would make the USA uninhabitable for Jews would be a severe economic crisis.

And you don't see that happening either?

Before 50 years newark was a city jews lived in. back then it was nice. I dont get your point.

[Secularbeliever]

And you don't see that happening either? <<  I t is possible but I think the economy will recover, and might thrive and prosper if the reaction to Obama's socialism is a strong dose of free market economics.

Before 50 years newark was a city jews lived in. back then it was nice. I dont get your point.<<My point is that Newark has been a hellhole for fifty year,s yet Jews have been able to live comfortably in the USA.  It is not something recent.  In fact assimilation is probably  a result of the comfort of Jews in the USA.

[Dr. Dan]

And you don't see that happening either? <<  I t is possible but I think the economy will recover, and might thrive and prosper if the reaction to Obama's socialism is a strong dose of free market economics.

Before 50 years newark was a city jews lived in. back then it was nice. I dont get your point.<<My point is that Newark has been a hellhole for fifty year,s yet Jews have been able to live comfortably in the USA.  It is not something recent.  In fact assimilation is probably  a result of the comfort of Jews in the USA.

You might have misunderstood my point about newark.  I was basically saying that the usa will become like a newark and cause massive emigration to israel.

As far as assimilation, german and persian jews assimilated. Everybody knew they were still jews. The assimilated ones, if smart and quick about it, will leave before a holocaust happens on them.