Cursing

[Chai]

Besides in shemona esri where are we allowed to curse other Jews that deserve it.

[Chai]

muman?

[muman613]

muman?

We have discussed this here before. I will attempt to answer your question in the Ask Muman613 forum if you don't mind. I believe the simple answer is that we should curse the enemies of the Jewish people. There is a more complex answer which I will present later this week...

Of course if anyone else would like to tackle this question, please go ahead...


Thanks,

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Personally, I do not take cursing lightly.   

Rabbi Kahane used to curse Yossi Sarid.   That's one of the only specific examples I know of.   I wouldn't feel comfortable cursing anyone I did not see Rabbi Kahane or some other righteous rabbi curse because I feel it's a very grave matter.

[muman613]

Personally, I do not take cursing lightly.  

Rabbi Kahane used to curse Yossi Sarid.   That's one of the only specific examples I know of.   I wouldn't feel comfortable cursing anyone I did not see Rabbi Kahane or some other righteous rabbi curse because I feel it's a very grave matter.

On this I agree with you. As I said if a person, Jew or Gentile, rises to the level of being an enemy of the Jewish people then I think it is acceptable to curse him. Even this should be avoided because curses are a form of speech which Hashem takes seriously and there are examples in the Torah where a tzadik says something, not even meant as a curse, and it ended up coming true causing great grief.

Jewish wisdom holds that speech is one of the highest levels of the soul and something which the animal kingdom does not have. There are complex laws of Lashon Hara {Evil Speech} which are intended to prevent Jews from talking disparagingly of each other. Of course these laws are intended for most average {Benoni} Jews. Obviously we should never speak derogatorily of the Righteous, and the Sages, and the Rabbis... But it is part of the laws of Lashon Hara that we have an obligation to tell something derogatory about a rasha {wicked person} in order to prevent someone from being harmed it is required to say it.

I too am hesitant to curse a Jew, and even non-Jews, because the recommended path {according to the sages} for a Talmid Chocham {Torah Scholar} is to walk the middle path. This requires watching what we say, how we look and what we look at, what we do and when we do it...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361896/jewish/The-Benoni.htm

To what level may one personally aspire? This is not a question of towering achievements in academia, business, or profession, but rather of personal development and refinement of character. Is it imperative—or even possible—for every individual to become the proverbial Tzaddik? The Talmud states that each person is obligated to wonder “when will my actions reach those of my forefathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?” But is every individual truly to aspire to such awesome heights? In Tanya, the classical work of Hassidism, Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi develops a phenomenal response to this age old question and revolutionized the Jewish world with the concept of the Benoni.

Traditionally, three terms were used to describe a person’s status:

1. Tzaddik—“the righteous person.”

2. Benoni—“the intermediate.”

3. Rasha—“the wicked person.”

Classically, a Tzaddik is a person who had more spiritual credits than debits, a Rasha has more debits than credits, and a Benoni has a balanced scale. On Rosh Hashanah we are placed on the Divine weighing scales and hope and pray to be inscribed in the book of the righteous.

http://www.jewishmag.com/86mag/benoni/benoni.htm

[muman613]

Cursing a parent and cursing G-d are completely forbidden. The penalty for both is stoning.

In Parasha Emor it is written:

"G-d spoke to Moshe, saying: Remove from the camp the one who cursed, and let all who heard him place their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. You shall speak to Bnei Yisrael, saying: Anyone who curses his G-d shall bear his sin. And one who blasphemes the name of G-d shall surely die; the entire congregation shall surely stone him; both the stranger and the native born - if he blasphemes, he shall die.

A person who kills any other person shall surely die. If a person kills an animal, he shall pay for it – an (animal) life for a life…" (Vayikra 24:13-18)

http://www.vbm-torah.org/parsha.64/31emor.htm


According to this understanding one who curses his enemy using any of Hashems Holy Names is liable for this punishment:

THE SIN OF THE BLASPHEMER

We may understand the sin of "the person who cursed" in two different ways. One possibility is that the person cursed G-d. This is difficult to maintain, though, since the Torah gives no reason for his doing so. Nowhere are we told that G-d punished this person or brought on him any suffering prior to the incident of cursing. All that we are told is that "the son of an Israelite woman" fought with an "Israelite man," and – as a result of this fight – the son of the Israelite woman cursed. Hence, there is no reason to suppose that he cursed G-d.[2]

A different way of understanding the story is to assume that this person cursed his adversary in G-d's name. According to this view, the word "va-yikov" is derived not from the root "k-v-v" (cursing) but rather "n-k-v" (specific mention): he mentioned G-d's name while cursing his opponent. He wished to harm his adversary by cursing him, and for this purpose he invoked G-d's name.[3] If we adopt this explanation, it is easy to understand the connection between the person who cursed and the laws of damages. A person may be injured in many different ways; one of them is through use of G-d's name in order to inflict harm.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/961943/jewish/Negative-Commandment-318.htm

Cursing a Parent
Negative Commandment 318

The 318th prohibition is that all people are forbidden from cursing their father or mother. The punishment for this transgression is stated explicitly in the Torah, in G‑d's statement,1 "Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death." The transgressor is executed by stoning.2 One who intentionally curses a parent using G‑d's Name is punished by stoning, even if the parent was already dead.

The source of the actual prohibition itself, however, is not written explicitly in the Torah.3 It does not say, "Do not curse your father," for example. But there is already a general prohibition against cursing any Jew,4 and it includes cursing both one's father and everyone else.

The Mechilta5 says, "The verse, 'Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death,' tells us the punishment. What is the source of the actual prohibition? The verse, 'Do not curse the judges.' If your father is a judge, he is included in [the prohibition of cursing] judges. If he is a Nasi, he is included in [the prohibition of cursing] the Nasi. If he is a regular Jew, [he is included in the prohibition of cursing a regular Jew,] as it is written, 'Do not curse the deaf.' From all three verses you can derive a general principle: just as these verses come to prohibit cursing any Jew, they also come to prohibit cursing your father."

I believe this interpretation is correct considering cursing using a Holy Name of Hashem is considered prohibited.

[muman613]

According to what I have been reading recently it appears that the best strategy would be not to curse someone whom you believe that teshuva may be possible. It would be better that the person or people come to teshuva rather than you curse them and Hashem listen to your request.


This article discusses the Pirkie Avot which quotes Rabbi Shmuel HaKatan who is credited with writing the curse against the heretics which we recite in the Shemone Esrei.



http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/avot-4.htm


   Shmuel HaKatan says: "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice, and when he stumbles let your heart not be glad, lest G-d see, and regard it with displeasure, and divert His wrath from him [to you]."

"Shmuel HaKatan says: 'When your enemy falls do not rejoice and when he stumbles let your heart not be glad.'" (4:19)

    QUESTION: The Gemara (Berachot 28b) relates that Rabban Gamliel sought one who could compose a special berachah concerning the Tzedokim — Sadducees — who were heretics and informers. Shmuel HaKatan came along and composed it. [This is the berachah of "Velamalshinim al tehi tikvah" — "let there be no hope for the informers..." which was added to the Shemonah Esreih.] Why did Rabban Gamliel accept Shmuel HaKatan for this challenge?

ANSWER: The Gemara (Berachot 10a) tells that in the neighborhood of Rabbi Meir there were people who were causing him much trouble, and Rabbi Meir prayed that they expire. His wife Bruriya said to him, "Instead of praying that the sinners cease to exist, pray that the sinners repent and cease to sin and thus the wicked will be no more."

The informers and the heretics caused much trouble for the righteous and the Jewish community at large. Many wanted to see them destroyed; however, Rabban Gamliel was looking for someone who was blessed with an inherent love for people and profound understanding for those who have gone astray. Cognizant of Shmuel HaKatan's constant declaration, "When your enemy falls do not rejoice, and when he stumbles let your heart not be glad," he was confident that Shmuel HaKatan would not compose a berachah out of hatred and animosity against the heretics, but with the intention that they cease to sin and thus become honorable members of the community.

"When your enemy falls, do not rejoice, and when he stumbles let your heart not be glad, lest G-d see and it will be displeasing to Him, and He will divert His wrath from him [to you]." (4:19)


    QUESTION: Hashem's way of punishment is "midah keneged midah" — "measure for measure." How is the punishment of diverting His wrath from him to you when you rejoice when he stumbles, measure for measure?

ANSWER: Shmuel HaKatan is referring to a person with whom one has no personal disagreement, and who is called an "enemy" only because he is wicked, and therefore, it is a mitzvah to hate him (see Pesachim 113b).

The Ba'al Shem Tov taught that nothing in this world is accidental and that from whatever a person sees or hears, he is to derive a personal lesson since there must be a reason that Hashem made him see or hear it. In line with this concept, he also taught that when a person sees a fault in a colleague, he should realize that he possesses a similar fault. Just as when one sees a speck in the mirror, it is a reflection of what is on his face, likewise, when one sees a fault on another, it is a sign of his own deficiency.

Thus, when a person rejoices over his enemy's downfall, he is in a sense saying that his enemy deserved his punishment and is justifying Hashem's action. So, in effect, he is also saying that it would be justified if the same thing would happen to him. Hence, Shmuel HaKatan warns not to rejoice when your enemy stumbles, since it is a sign that the one rejoicing is guilty of the same sin, and it may prompt Hashem to subject him to the other person's punishment, which he has, in effect, justified as something he deserves himself.


I believe that it is up to each individual to decide whether a person deserves a curse. I am a little lenient concerning this because I see so much evil in the world...

[muman613]

And one last article to make you think this out...


http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48884697.html

Downfall of the Enemy
by Rabbi Yisrael Rutman

How should we feel upon seeing an evil person destroyed?

Tarak Said Paras Handakni was recently killed in a shootout with Israeli forces in Ramallah. Israeli intelligence identified Handakni as one of the murderers of Aharon Avadian, an Israeli father of four from the northern town of Zichron Yaakov.

Out of the hundreds of incidents in the Israeli anti-terrorist campaign of the past few months, why did this one catch my attention? Because Aharon Avadian was not just another victim in the headlines. He was my neighbor.

When word of his murder reached our town that day, an Arab who used to work with Avadian broke down and wept. "I hate Arabs," he said.

What am I to feel? Should I hate Arabs? Should I gloat over the killing of my neighbor's murderer? Or should I feel sadness and disgust over so much hatred and violence?

Some would answer that whatever you feel, you have a right to that feeling. But the Torah viewpoint is different. Not only is the Torah a book of law and history, it is a guidebook for life. There is nothing in life that the Torah does not address.

What the Torah says about such situations, however, seems at first glance contradictory.

On one hand, we have a verse: "In the destruction of the wicked, there is song" (Proverbs 11:10). The Talmud says this refers to King Ahab, who was so evil that the world looked forward to his death, and everyone rejoiced in being rid of him.

    Every morning in our prayers we mention the drowning of the Egyptian legions at the Red Sea.

Indeed, we celebrate the destruction of the wicked every morning in our prayers when we mention the drowning of the Egyptian legions at the Red Sea. It was one of the great moments of Jewish history, when Moses and Miriam led the Jewish people in a song of praise and thanksgiving to God. And we recall it with festivity every year at the Passover Seder.

At the same time, the Midrash explains that during the last six days of Passover, we do not say the complete Hallel prayer of joyful praises, because when the Jews crossed the Red Sea, God said, "Since my creations [the Egyptians] are drowning, you should not be singing praises."

[muman613]

Ok, I couldn't resist one more post on this topic...

I mentioned in my first post that there is a portion in the Torah which relates a case when a Tzadik inadvertently curses his own wife and yet the curse comes true.

I am referring to the story of our father Jacob and his wife Rachel. When they fled from the wicked father-in-law Laban Rachel stole an idol from her fathers house and stowed it in her saddle bag. Jacob did not know this and ended up saying something which caused Rachels untimely death.


http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/670762/jewish/Caleb-the-Cave-amp-the-Curse-of-Canaan.htm

Interestingly, we are taught that Rachel had hidden her father Laban's idols in her saddle in the vain hope that this would force him to give up idolatry. She had not told Jacob about this plan, however, and therefore, when Laban accused him of stealing his idols, Jacob said, "The one with whom you find your idols will die," and from that curse, Rachel died later in childbirth. Rachel's failure to include her husband in her scheme recalls Adam's failure to communicate with Eve and indicated a lack of communication - a back-to-back stature - between them. This lack of communication was the proverbial recipe for disaster, the opportunity for the forces of evil to cause tragic damage.

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/779949/jewish/Interpolated-Translation.htm

And why did you steal my gods?"

31 Jacob responded to Laban's questions in the order in which they were posed to him. He said to Laban, "I fled because I was afraid, for I thought that you might take your daughters away from me by force.

32 As for your idols, anyone among my household members with whom you find your gods shall not live! In the presence of our kinsmen, identify for yourself whatever of yours is in my possession and take it back." Jacob did not realize that Rachel had stolen them; it was on account of Jacob's inadvertent curse that Rachel died on the journey.

33 So Laban entered Rachel's—i.e., Jacob's—tent first, since she was his primary wife—and only after that did he enter Leah's tent. He then searched Rachel's tent a second time. Finally, he searched the tents of the two bondwomen, but he found nothing. The reason he went back into Rachel's tent to search it again when he left Leah's tent was because he knew Rachel to be meddlesome, and he suspected her of having stolen his idols.