Amy Winehouse : Absolute Chillul Hashem

[muman613]

I cannot believe that the media goes on and on about how Amy Winehouse was supposed to be Jewish.

First I must say that I have never even heard of her before her death. I can say without hesitation that her music was not my taste and it appealed to the worst kinds of people in our society.

This woman who represented all that is an abomination to G-d. Her blatant violation of Jewish law screamed out her hatred for G-d, everything from her Tattoos {completely forbidden by Jewish law} to her burial by cremation {another thing completely forbidden by Jewish law} was a desecration of G-ds name.

I would like to say that while I hold out hope that she may receive some mercy for her transgressions, I must say to myself and everyone I love that this woman deserves a nice stay in the Hot and Dark place of Gehinnom. As I have said before it is not an eternal gehinnom {unless her transgressions are more than I can imagine} but it will be very unpleasant. I must admit that I believe that I myself will spend some time in Gehinnom to rectify some of the sins which still stain my life.... But I think it is the responsible thing to rebuke those who flagrantly violate...

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43903091/ns/today-entertainment/

[The proud Jew]

Muman, Are you sure true torah judiasm believes in a "hell"? I thought we believe in just pergatory.

[muman613]

Muman, Are you sure true torah judiasm believes in a "hell"? I thought we believe in just pergatory.

We believe in Gehinnom... It is a place where the soul is rectified. The most a normal person {not exceptionally wicked} will stay in Gehinnom will be 12 months...

I posted about this in another thread with the links... If you would like I could find this discussion...

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=680

What is Gehinnom?

Gehinnom is the name given to Hell in the Rabbinic literature. The name was borrowed from that of a real valley (see Joshua 15:2,8 and 18:16; 2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chron.28:3 and 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 19:2,6; Nehemiah 11:30) where burnings took place. See also Isaiah 30:33; Jeremiah 19:11-13; Job 17:6. Punishment in Gehinnom lasts only for up to 12 months, except for certain major sinners. Isaiah 66:24 must be referring to it when he speaks of the fire that is not extinguished.

http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/10797/jewish/Gehinnom.htm

http://www.breslev.co.il/articles/breslevpedia/gehinnom.aspx?id=1215&language=english

Gehinnom
 
Gehinnom refers, generally, to a limited-time experience (Edyos 2:10) in the afterlife where the soul is purged of its blemishes. The name "Gehinnom" comes from the valley to the south of Jerusalem, known as the Valley (Gei) of the son of Hinnom, where children were at one time sacrificed to the idolatrous cult, Molech. For this reason the valley was deemed accursed, and Gehinnom thus became a synonym for Purgatory.

http://www.judaism.org/index.php?p=994

Do we as Jews believe in Hell? If so what would someone do to deserve a place in hell?

Hell, yes.

Well, sort of…

...you see, it’s nothing like the images we probably have of it, fashioned from TV evangelists and B horror movies. There’s no devil, and perhaps even no recognizable physical existence.

Rather, it is a place (called “Gehinnom” in Hebrew) where the soul is exposed to the reality of everything that it did in this world, while simultaneously being shown the potential that it possessed to achieve. All the facts are laid on the table in a manner which is irrefutable and undeniable. The principal punishment of Gehinnom is the inescapable pain of regret for wasting or even abusing one’s potential and thus not achieving what one could have achieved.

Gehinnom is a cleansing process for the soul to enable it to eventually enter the World To Come. Some souls are able to enter the World To Come without experiencing Gehinnom, either because of their lofty achievements in this world or because they already experienced all their suffering there (or a combination of both). For those who have to go to Gehinnom, the cleansing process is usually completed in eleven or twelve months. On rare occasion, for people who did terrible evil in their lifetimes, causing many to suffer, Gehinnom can take much longer. For example, the Talmud states that Titus Andronicus, the Roman general who destroyed Jerusalem and the second Temple in 70 ACE, is still inGehinnom .

Only G-d, with His infinite knowledge and wisdom, can judge who does or does not deserve Gehinnom and how long their stay there must last. But it is obvious, from our human perspective, that by studying and fulfilling the Torah as much as we can, we move ourselves away from the judgment of Gehinnom.

Also see this fantastic publication:

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/to-live-and-live-again/06.htm

[Secularbeliever]

That is not so bad if you just spend some time having your failures rubbed in your face and then get to go to the world to come.

[muman613]

That is not so bad if you just spend some time having your failures rubbed in your face and then get to go to the world to come.

That is how some describe it. But there are also descriptions of a painful part of Gehinnom.

Here is a question from http://www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ19.asp :

Q11. What happens to a person who passes away who is Shomer Habrit versus someone who is not? Does the person who is not Shomer Habrit have more suffering in the grave? Does he spend a lot of time in Gehinnom? What is Gehinnom like anyway? What information do you have about the afterlife?

A11. Nobody knows what the after life is really like. The Torah hid this from us so that our divine service should be more for the sake of heaven and less from the fear of punishment or for the sake of the great reward that we will receive in the next world.
 
However, the Gemara and the holy Kabbalistic books drop hints about the punishments and rewards that await the evil and the righteous in the next world. It is written that those who have guarded the bris will be protected from Gehinom by Avraham Avinu himself, who was the first to fulfill the Mitzva of circumcision. In the Zohar it is brought down many times how the angles of vengeance, and the arch-angel Dumah, who is appointed over Gehinom, have no power over one who has guarded his bris in this world. On the other hand, one who did not do Teshuvah in this world, will be chased by his sins in the next world. The Talmud brings Pesukim that imply that every sin we do will be tied to our souls and torment us in the next world if we don't do Teshuvah on them. The sins themselves will testify against us and cause us great shame in the world of truth. Also, if one did not work on himself in this world and he is steeped in physical desires, his soul will not be able to break free of the body after he dies. He will be tied down to his body until it has totally disintegrated into dust, before he will even be let into Gehinom. He will also feel great anguish that he can no longer indulge in the physical pleasures that had been so much a part of him. However, the soul of one who has elevated his physical desires to the service of G-d, will break free of the body right away after death and rise straight to its honorable place in Gan Eden.

Q12. What do you mean that he will be tied down to his body for a long time? Does the dead body feel all the animals that are eating away at it after death? What exactly is happening when we refer to the suffering of the grave?

A12. The Talmud writes that the worms that eat the flesh after death are as painful to the soul as needles in the skin (of a live person). However, this applies only to those who were tied to their body's desires in this world. One who has done Teshuvah and learned to use the desires of this world only for divine service will not feel this pain, which is known as "Chibut Hakever". There are other types of suffering as well that happen to sinners in the grave, such as "Kaf Hakela", where the soul is chased from one end of the world to the other by tormenting angels created by his sins, but since I am not a Kabbalist, I can't elaborate too much on that which I don't know much about :-) ... Let's just hope we don't need it.

[Confederate Kahanist]

Since you are religous and with the God of Abraham,Issac and Jacob, I find it hard to believe you will ever experience Gehinnom as well as with other righteous Jews and gentiles.

[muman613]

Since you are religous and with the G-d of Abraham,Issac and Jacob, I find it hard to believe you will ever experience Gehinnom as well as with other righteous Jews and gentiles.

Well thank you very much Confederate Kahanist... I will attempt to avoid speaking Lashon Hara against myself in this instance. As a Baal Teshuva {A 'Master' of Repentance/Return} I must beg every time I daven that my past transgressions be forgiven.

[Sveta]

She is dead at such a young age, I will let HaShem judge her.

[muman613]

She is dead at such a young age, I will let HaShem judge her.

Yes, in the final analysis Blessed is the Judge of Truth {Baruch Dayan HaEmet}... But there should be a lesson that there is always a danger when doing hard drugs that the next 'fix' is going to kill you. I have several 'friends' from the old days who succumbed to Alcohol {Died of Scirosis of the Liver} , Heroin, Speed-Balls, and they all were unrepentant drug addicts. I was able to get out of that environment and I thank Hashem that I separated from them when I realized that I had a problem...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I must say to myself and everyone I love that this woman deserves a nice stay in the Hot and Dark place of Gehinnom.

I'm surprised that you don't think you are spreading Lashon Hara and Needless Hatred.

[muman613]

I'm surprised that you don't think you are spreading Lashon Hara and Needless Hatred.

Indeed I considered the negative aspects of stating this. Don't you know that I don't just say things without contemplating what may come from my statements. I do not curse her nor those who listen to her. I just may be wrong for doing this because I myself could have {and still may be} punished for the iniquities which I did in my past {20 years ago}...

I just want to point out that what she has done is a desecration of Hashems name. A person who the media identifies as a Jew should behave in a better way than she apparently behaved. But every Jew, and certainly every human being, has the ability to change his or her ways and to return to the good through Teshuva. I would implore all those who are knowingly engaging in prohibited behavior to cease and regret the transgressions...

[TheCoon]

Other than being born a Jew I've never heard of her having a Jewish identity or practicing in any way. Maybe her family practices in some way but it's clear she didn't.