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Offline muman613

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2011, 12:53:05 AM »
A person who voted for the repeal of this does not deserve to die of AIDS. If you think that someone should die a horrible gruesome death because of some policy that will not hurt you or violate your person, then that is on you Muman.  Normal Fagelstein, YSV, is a vile animal who goes out of his way in everything he does to cause a second Holocaust of the Jewish people.  This animal will get what he has coming to him for actively working to ensure a judeinrein Middle East.  He also participates in Holocaust denying conferences with scum like Ahmedinejad, YSV, and gives anti-Semitic gentiles endless fodder to continue their demonization of the Jewish people and the Zionist Christians who support us.  
    I would not be comfortable being on duty with a man that talked about his 'husband,' but I would not wish AIDS on him and to do so would be a very evil thing in my view.  You do not wish deadly diseases and gruesome deaths on misguided people who have not done, and have no intention of doing you personal harm.  You are walking on a very slippery slope wishing death on misguided people who have no intention of hurting you personally.    

Oh stop it... It is not just 'no intention of hurting me personally'... I explained that there are those who are standing up for the moral principle which is laid out in our Torah. This is why it is an issue to me.

The Torah clearly lays out what a sin sexual immorality is. Homosexuality is just one example of the several prohibited relationships which the Torah lays out. But as I have said before I believe that all these prohibited relationships will be permitted by our secular system eventually, including pedophilia and beastiality.

The slippery slope which you talk about is the moral decline which we are witnessing today. That people say "Well, if it doesn't affect me then who cares, let them do what they want to each other.." That alone is the very motto of Sodom & Gemorah. It is also the sin of Schem {who raped Dinah and his people said nothing about it}... Judaism, the religion, is not very big on individual rights. We are a people who are tied together...

As in a boat on the sea, if one person drills a hole in his berth he could say he is just drilling the hole in his berth, but the hole will cause the entire ship to sink. We have a collective responsibility to rebuke our fellow. This too is a commandment of the Torah, the commandment of rebuking your fellow.

http://torah.org/learning/lifeline/5757/kedoshim.html

Quote
"You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall surely rebuke your fellow, and not bear sin because of him." [19:17]

We learn several concepts from this verse. We learn a sense of communal responsibility, built upon love and brotherhood. We learn that if your neighbor is doing something wrong, you should not dislike him because of it, but should discuss the issue with him. We have a responsibility to rebuke... but why?

The Iglei Tal explains: "it is the nature of a person, that when he sees his neighbor doing something wrong, he decides that this person is evil. Even if he sees the neighbor later, doing something which could be seen in a positive light, nonetheless he will attribute sinister motives to the neighbor, for he has already stamped him with the seal, 'wicked.'

"However, if he would rebuke him after the first time, he might learn that the neighbor had full justification for his actions, or the neighbor might admit his guilt and promise not to do this again. As a result, when the neighbor did the second action, the first party would judge him favorably.

Assuming a person has been rebuked and yet continues his sinful behavior then we don't have to rebuke him anymore, he has assumed the role of an evil person...



PS: Nobody will argue with you about Normal FINK because he is a piece of drek. His place in gehinnom is waiting.
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2011, 12:53:32 AM »
‏You see, the Australians do hazing when they cross the equator south to north, hence their hazing has to reflect that by going totally gay. Whereas the Americans who cross the equator the way it should be, north to south, keep their hazing totally macho.

Mock it if you must

Offline muman613

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2011, 12:56:35 AM »
From : http://ohr.edu/youth/simcha/5759/devarim/nitzavim.htm

WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT

What a wonderful boat ride, Avi. Smell the salt air. Look at the beautiful view. The gentle ocean breeze and the rocking of the boat are so calming.

Chaim, I'm glad you told me about this. It was a great idea. It's so quiet out here.

Suddenly the noise of an electric power tool shatters the calm. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

What's that noise, Avi?

I don't know Chaim. It sounded like an electric drill or saw.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

There it is again. It's coming from over there. Farther back on the boat. Let's go see what it is.

The two boys go back to investigate and see a very strange sight. Crouching under one of the seats is a man holding a power drill. He is drilling a hole under his seat through the bottom of the boat.

Avi, can you believe it? That man is drilling a hole in the bottom of the boat! This whole boat will sink and we'll have to swim back to shore. This is dangerous business. We had better tell the Captain.

Wait a minute, Chaim. Let's talk to the man first. He probably doesn't realize what he is doing. When we tell him, I'm sure he will stop. Excuse me sir.

Yes. What do you want?

I'm sorry to disturb you. I just wanted to point something out to you. You probably don't realize that if you continue drilling like that, you will put a hole in the bottom of the boat.

Listen young man. I know exactly what I am doing. What I do under my own seat is of no concern to you. I paid full fare for this seat and it is mine for the duration of this trip. You have no right to tell me what I can or cannot do under my seat. Now leave me alone.

You're right Avi, let's go to the Captain.

The boys run to the Captain and report the man. His drilling is stopped before he can put a hole in the boat.

Boys, we don't know how to thank you. You saved the whole boat. I'm going to see to it that you get free passes on this boat ride whenever you want. We owe you a real debt of gratitude. That man was very strange. How could he think that because he bought a seat, he has the right to drill a hole under it? Didn't he feel any connection or responsibility to the other passengers?

Mr. Captain, sir. It's funny you should bring that up. We were just learning about that in school this week.

Really? What class teaches you about boat passengers?

Our class on the weekly Torah portion. Three thousand five hundred years ago, our ancestors were about to enter the Land of Israel. One of the last things they did before entering the land was to form a pact pledging mutual responsibility to one another. Every Jew became responsible for every member of the Jewish people. The deeds of each person, would affect all of the others.

What does that have to do with the boat passengers?

To put it figuratively, since that time the Jewish people have all been in the same boat together. When one of us does something good, we all benefit. On the other hand, if any one of us does something wrong, we all suffer. If any member of our nation violates the Sabbath or eats non-kosher food, he is not only hurting himself, he is hurting the Jewish people as a whole. He might think that observing the mitzvos are his own private business. They are not. They are everyone's business. Just like the man on the boat. We would all suffer from his foolish deed.

Boys, I truly admire you and your people. Communal responsibility is a very important thing. People who bind together can accomplish great things. Much more than separate individuals.

Mr. Captain, sir, we have accomplished great things. The next time we take this boat ride, we can tell you all about our amazing 3500 year history.

Boys, it will be my pleasure. You can sit up in the main cabin with me. People who took the responsibility to save the boat deserve the best seats. I want to hear all about the 3500 year boat-ride of the Jewish people.
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2011, 01:04:39 AM »
Oh stop it... It is not just 'no intention of hurting me personally'... I explained that there are those who are standing up for the moral principle which is laid out in our Torah. This is why it is an issue to me.

The Torah clearly lays out what a sin sexual immorality is. Homosexuality is just one example of the several prohibited relationships which the Torah lays out. But as I have said before I believe that all these prohibited relationships will be permitted by our secular system eventually, including pedophilia and beastiality.

The slippery slope which you talk about is the moral decline which we are witnessing today. That people say "Well, if it doesn't affect me then who cares, let them do what they want to each other.." That alone is the very motto of Sodom & Gemorah. It is also the sin of Schem {who raped Dinah and his people said nothing about it}... Judaism, the religion, is not very big on individual rights. We are a people who are tied together...

As in a boat on the sea, if one person drills a hole in his berth he could say he is just drilling the hole in his berth, but the hole will cause the entire ship to sink. We have a collective responsibility to rebuke our fellow. This too is a commandment of the Torah, the commandment of rebuking your fellow.

http://torah.org/learning/lifeline/5757/kedoshim.html

Assuming a person has been rebuked and yet continues his sinful behavior then we don't have to rebuke him anymore, he has assumed the role of an evil person...



PS: Nobody will argue with you about Normal FINK because he is a piece of drek. His place in gehinnom is waiting.


Muman,

You seem to be taking this very personally (which is what you have accused me of).  Incidently, nowhere in the Torah does it tell us that it is "moral" to wish AIDS on homosexual people.  It may very well be moral to curse people who wish to do us harm, as Chaim says, it is required.  I do not believe that every gay or lesbian person is out to do anyone harm.  Sometimes, the greatest harm they do is to themselves.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 01:11:48 AM by mmhmmm »

Offline muman613

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2011, 01:07:50 AM »
Muman,

You seem to be taking this very personally (which is what you have accused me of).  Be well and good night

Thank you... You too..
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2011, 08:21:33 AM »
I think it's best to try to help people who are misguided rather than harming them. I don't consider homosexuals to be dangerous but I don't think they should be open in the military either. It creates first and foremost a morale problem for the straight soldiers.
In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2011, 08:56:23 AM »

I would kiss his belly with a tire iron.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Maimonides

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2011, 01:35:00 PM »
that's an old hazing rite of passage for crossing the equator for the first time. Its not "homosexual" in any way.


Only someone in denial can say that men dressing as women, being anally penetrated, and having to stick their face in another man's crotch is not homosexual.

The sad fact is this is "tradition" involves homosexuality and paganism (they are worshiping the idol god neptune), and are the signs of a country that is on the wrong path.

Those who go through the tradition either because of peer pressure, physical force, and brainwash naivety that this is a "character building experience", don't want to admit that they have been made fools of and so the tradition will continue until enough people wake up to the madness.

NO Jew or Righteous Gentile should allow themselves to by physically or spiritually raped by these "traditional ceremonies"!
“You must accept the truth from whatever source it comes”- Maimonides

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2011, 06:24:19 PM »
Empires have fallen due to perversions.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2011, 10:02:05 PM »

Only someone in denial can say that men dressing as women, being anally penetrated, and having to stick their face in another man's crotch is not homosexual.

The sad fact is this is "tradition" involves homosexuality and paganism (they are worshiping the idol G-d neptune), and are the signs of a country that is on the wrong path.

Those who go through the tradition either because of peer pressure, physical force, and brainwash naivety that this is a "character building experience", don't want to admit that they have been made fools of and so the tradition will continue until enough people wake up to the madness.

NO Jew or Righteous Gentile should allow themselves to by physically or spiritually raped by these "traditional ceremonies"!

its been on the wrong track even before it's founding then because those traditions are old. Abuses happen everywhere. "Anal penetration" is not part of it. If you think they are seriously worshipping neptune, then you are just ignorant.

Offline muman613

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2011, 10:10:24 PM »
its been on the wrong track even before it's founding then because those traditions are old. Abuses happen everywhere. "Anal penetration" is not part of it. If you think they are seriously worshipping neptune, then you are just ignorant.

What do you mean 'seriously worshiping neptune'? ... Any appearance of worshiping an idol is absolutely forbidden.. Especially when it is 'worshiped' in its intended manner... A JEW is expressly forbidden from doing this..



Here is a Daf Yomi on Talmud Mesechet Avodah Zara {Idol/strange worship}:



http://www.shemayisrael.com/dafyomi2/azarah/insites/az-dt-12.htm

1) HALACHAH: DRINKING WATER FROM A WATER FOUNTAIN STATUE

    OPINIONS: The Gemara discusses actions that one is prohibited from doing because those actions resemble forms of idol worship. One of these actions involves drinking water that comes from the mouth of a statue. Idolaters would build water fountains in the shape of statues, with water coming out of the mouth of the statue. The Gemara says that a person is not allowed to place his mouth on the mouth of the statues in the cities in order to drink the water, because it appears as though he is kissing the Avodah Zarah. The Gemara does not specify whether this prohibition applies to statues which themselves are used for Avodah Zarah, or whether it applies even to ordinary water fountain statues.

        (a) The RIF, ROSH, and TUR (YD 150) record the prohibition of the Gemara without specifying that the fountain itself must be one which is used for Avodah Zarah.

        According to this opinion, though, why does the Gemara specifically say this Halachah with regard to statues in the cities? The TAZ answers that it seems that the Gemara is giving a stringency by mentioning statues in the city, for such statues are commonly built merely for beauty and not for Avodah Zarah. (In contrast, statues in villages were usually built for idol worship; see SHULCHAN ARUCH YD 141:1, based on the Mishnah on 44b). The Gemara is telling us that one may not drink from statues even in the cities.

        (b) The RAMBAM (Hilchos Avodas Kochavim 3:8), SEMAG, and SHULCHAN ARUCH (YD 150:3) specify that this prohibition pertains only to fountains which are situated in front of an Avodah Zarah. (Obviously, it applies as well when the statue itself is an idol.) The BACH cites a proof to this opinion. Our Gemara discusses three other cases: crouching in front of an Avodah Zarah in order to remove a thorn, picking up money in front of an Avodah Zarah, and drinking from a stream which lies in front of an Avodah Zarah. After explaining the necessity to mention all three cases, the Gemara asks why do we also need the case of the water fountain. RASHI (12b, DH Partzufos) explains that from the case of the stream we already see that even when someone is very thirsty he is not allowed to drink from that water, and thus what more can the case of the water fountain be teaching us? The Gemara answers that this case was said merely to introduce the next part of the Beraisa.

        According to the opinion that the prohibition applies even when the statue is *not* in front of Avodah Zarah, why does the Gemara say that there is no intrinsic novelty in this case? This case *is* unique in that it forbids drinking from the fountain even when there is no Avodah Zarah present, unlike the other cases! It must be that this prohibition applies only when the fountain is in front of an Avodah Zarah.

    HALACHAH: The Bach concludes that the Halachic opinion is that of the Rambam, and as recorded by the Shulchan Aruch. However, he maintains that someone who is stringent upon himself and does not drink from any water fountain statue will receive a blessing. This is also the opinion of the SHACH. The TAZ also writes that one should be stringent and follow the opinion of the Tur. However, he seems to say that it is more than just a stringency, but that it is the Halachah, but he does not explain why. Perhaps his reasoning is that of the Bach in his Hagahos to the Rif, where the Bach points out that since there are many Rishonim who prohibit drinking from such a fountain even when it is not used for Avodah Zarah, and since our Gemara does not mention that the statue must be in front of an Avodah Zarah, the Halachah would seem to follow the view of the Tur. (Y. Montrose)

2) MUST ONE GIVE UP HIS LIFE FOR "MAR'IS HA'AYIN" OF IDOLATRY?

    OPINIONS: The Beraisa lists several actions that one is prohibited from doing because those actions resemble forms of idol worship. These actions are: crouching in front of an Avodah Zarah in order to remove a thorn, picking up money in front of an Avodah Zarah, and drinking from a stream which lies in front of an Avodah Zarah. The Gemara states that if the Beraisa had not taught us the law in the case of the stream, we might have thought that it is permitted to drink from the stream in front of an Avodah Zarah when not drinking will endanger his life. The Beraisa is teaching that it is nevertheless prohibited.

   We know that the sin of Avodah Zarah is one of three sins for which a Jew must die in order not to transgress. The Gemara here seems to be saying that one must die even in order to avoid transgressing "Mar'is ha'Ayin" (doing a permitted action which appears to be an act of transgression) of Avodah Zarah. Is this true?

        (a) The RASHBA, TUR (YD 150) and others state that the simple understanding of the Gemara is that indeed one must sacrifice his life in order not to do even an act of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah. This also appears to be the intention of RASHI (DH Aval). The BI'UR HA'GRA (ibid.) cites another proof to this opinion. The Gemara in Sanhedrin (75a) discusses a case in which a man became sick from his lust for a woman. The doctors said that he would recover even if she would consent merely to talk to him from behind a wall. The Rabanan rule in such a case that it is better for the man to die than to have the woman talk with him. There are two opinions there regarding the status of the woman; one opinion states that she was married, and the other states that she was single. The Gemara states that according to the opinion that she was married, we can understand the ruling that it is better that he die than have her talk with him (since she is an Eshes Ish and would fall into the category of the Isur of Arayos, one of the categories of transgression for which a person must die in order to avoid transgressing). The Vilna Ga'on asks why is that opinion, that she was married, any more understandable than the opinion that she was single? According to the Ramban and many others, the prohibition there would only have been an Isur d'Rabanan! Why, then, should the man be left to die? It must be that even for a Rabbinic prohibition (in one of the three categories of sins of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor"), the rule that one must die and not transgress applies. Likewise, one must die and not transgress the Rabbinic prohibition of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah.

        (b) The RAN also writes that this is the straightforward meaning of the Gemara, but he qualifies that the requirement to die and not transgress does not apply in all cases of "Mar'is ha'Ayin," but only in certain cases. In the case of drinking from a stream, where the person looks as though he is bowing down to the Avodah Zarah, one is required to give up his life and not transgress "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah. However, in cases of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" where the person's act does not appear to be such a blatant act of idol worship (for example, travelling to a city in which there happens to be an idolatrous festival being celebrated), a person is not required to give up his life.

        (c) However, the Ran seems to conclude that even the case of drinking from a stream in front of an Avodah Zarah is not a case of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor." How, though, does the Ran understand the Gemara? He understands that the Gemara is saying that even though the person is very thirsty and might *possibly* die before he finds water, he is still not allowed to drink the water. However, if he *knows* that he will not find any other water and that he will certainly die, then he is allowed to drink the water. He quotes this opinion as the opinion of RABEINU ASHER. This opinion is also cited by the REMA (YD 150:3).

        The MEKOR MAYIM CHAYIM (ibid.) explains how the Ran will answer the proof of the Vilna Ga'on. In the case in Sanhedrin, the person was interested in doing more than just talking to the woman. The Chachamim said that, in general, a man should not talk in such a context to a married woman since it might lead to an actual transgression of Giluy Arayos. The case here is totally different, as the person involved has absolutely no interest in doing the actual sin of Avodah Zarah. Therefore, the Chachamim did not include this act in the category of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor." (Y. Montrose)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 10:15:33 PM by muman613 »
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2011, 11:02:56 PM »
What do you mean 'seriously worshiping neptune'? ... Any appearance of worshiping an idol is absolutely forbidden.. Especially when it is 'worshiped' in its intended manner... A JEW is expressly forbidden from doing this..



Here is a Daf Yomi on Talmud Mesechet Avodah Zara {Idol/strange worship}:



http://www.shemayisrael.com/dafyomi2/azarah/insites/az-dt-12.htm

1) HALACHAH: DRINKING WATER FROM A WATER FOUNTAIN STATUE

    OPINIONS: The Gemara discusses actions that one is prohibited from doing because those actions resemble forms of idol worship. One of these actions involves drinking water that comes from the mouth of a statue. Idolaters would build water fountains in the shape of statues, with water coming out of the mouth of the statue. The Gemara says that a person is not allowed to place his mouth on the mouth of the statues in the cities in order to drink the water, because it appears as though he is kissing the Avodah Zarah. The Gemara does not specify whether this prohibition applies to statues which themselves are used for Avodah Zarah, or whether it applies even to ordinary water fountain statues.

        (a) The RIF, ROSH, and TUR (YD 150) record the prohibition of the Gemara without specifying that the fountain itself must be one which is used for Avodah Zarah.

        According to this opinion, though, why does the Gemara specifically say this Halachah with regard to statues in the cities? The TAZ answers that it seems that the Gemara is giving a stringency by mentioning statues in the city, for such statues are commonly built merely for beauty and not for Avodah Zarah. (In contrast, statues in villages were usually built for idol worship; see SHULCHAN ARUCH YD 141:1, based on the Mishnah on 44b). The Gemara is telling us that one may not drink from statues even in the cities.

        (b) The RAMBAM (Hilchos Avodas Kochavim 3:8), SEMAG, and SHULCHAN ARUCH (YD 150:3) specify that this prohibition pertains only to fountains which are situated in front of an Avodah Zarah. (Obviously, it applies as well when the statue itself is an idol.) The BACH cites a proof to this opinion. Our Gemara discusses three other cases: crouching in front of an Avodah Zarah in order to remove a thorn, picking up money in front of an Avodah Zarah, and drinking from a stream which lies in front of an Avodah Zarah. After explaining the necessity to mention all three cases, the Gemara asks why do we also need the case of the water fountain. RASHI (12b, DH Partzufos) explains that from the case of the stream we already see that even when someone is very thirsty he is not allowed to drink from that water, and thus what more can the case of the water fountain be teaching us? The Gemara answers that this case was said merely to introduce the next part of the Beraisa.

        According to the opinion that the prohibition applies even when the statue is *not* in front of Avodah Zarah, why does the Gemara say that there is no intrinsic novelty in this case? This case *is* unique in that it forbids drinking from the fountain even when there is no Avodah Zarah present, unlike the other cases! It must be that this prohibition applies only when the fountain is in front of an Avodah Zarah.

    HALACHAH: The Bach concludes that the Halachic opinion is that of the Rambam, and as recorded by the Shulchan Aruch. However, he maintains that someone who is stringent upon himself and does not drink from any water fountain statue will receive a blessing. This is also the opinion of the SHACH. The TAZ also writes that one should be stringent and follow the opinion of the Tur. However, he seems to say that it is more than just a stringency, but that it is the Halachah, but he does not explain why. Perhaps his reasoning is that of the Bach in his Hagahos to the Rif, where the Bach points out that since there are many Rishonim who prohibit drinking from such a fountain even when it is not used for Avodah Zarah, and since our Gemara does not mention that the statue must be in front of an Avodah Zarah, the Halachah would seem to follow the view of the Tur. (Y. Montrose)

2) MUST ONE GIVE UP HIS LIFE FOR "MAR'IS HA'AYIN" OF IDOLATRY?

    OPINIONS: The Beraisa lists several actions that one is prohibited from doing because those actions resemble forms of idol worship. These actions are: crouching in front of an Avodah Zarah in order to remove a thorn, picking up money in front of an Avodah Zarah, and drinking from a stream which lies in front of an Avodah Zarah. The Gemara states that if the Beraisa had not taught us the law in the case of the stream, we might have thought that it is permitted to drink from the stream in front of an Avodah Zarah when not drinking will endanger his life. The Beraisa is teaching that it is nevertheless prohibited.

   We know that the sin of Avodah Zarah is one of three sins for which a Jew must die in order not to transgress. The Gemara here seems to be saying that one must die even in order to avoid transgressing "Mar'is ha'Ayin" (doing a permitted action which appears to be an act of transgression) of Avodah Zarah. Is this true?

        (a) The RASHBA, TUR (YD 150) and others state that the simple understanding of the Gemara is that indeed one must sacrifice his life in order not to do even an act of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah. This also appears to be the intention of RASHI (DH Aval). The BI'UR HA'GRA (ibid.) cites another proof to this opinion. The Gemara in Sanhedrin (75a) discusses a case in which a man became sick from his lust for a woman. The doctors said that he would recover even if she would consent merely to talk to him from behind a wall. The Rabanan rule in such a case that it is better for the man to die than to have the woman talk with him. There are two opinions there regarding the status of the woman; one opinion states that she was married, and the other states that she was single. The Gemara states that according to the opinion that she was married, we can understand the ruling that it is better that he die than have her talk with him (since she is an Eshes Ish and would fall into the category of the Isur of Arayos, one of the categories of transgression for which a person must die in order to avoid transgressing). The Vilna Ga'on asks why is that opinion, that she was married, any more understandable than the opinion that she was single? According to the Ramban and many others, the prohibition there would only have been an Isur d'Rabanan! Why, then, should the man be left to die? It must be that even for a Rabbinic prohibition (in one of the three categories of sins of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor"), the rule that one must die and not transgress applies. Likewise, one must die and not transgress the Rabbinic prohibition of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah.

        (b) The RAN also writes that this is the straightforward meaning of the Gemara, but he qualifies that the requirement to die and not transgress does not apply in all cases of "Mar'is ha'Ayin," but only in certain cases. In the case of drinking from a stream, where the person looks as though he is bowing down to the Avodah Zarah, one is required to give up his life and not transgress "Mar'is ha'Ayin" of Avodah Zarah. However, in cases of "Mar'is ha'Ayin" where the person's act does not appear to be such a blatant act of idol worship (for example, travelling to a city in which there happens to be an idolatrous festival being celebrated), a person is not required to give up his life.

        (c) However, the Ran seems to conclude that even the case of drinking from a stream in front of an Avodah Zarah is not a case of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor." How, though, does the Ran understand the Gemara? He understands that the Gemara is saying that even though the person is very thirsty and might *possibly* die before he finds water, he is still not allowed to drink the water. However, if he *knows* that he will not find any other water and that he will certainly die, then he is allowed to drink the water. He quotes this opinion as the opinion of RABEINU ASHER. This opinion is also cited by the REMA (YD 150:3).

        The MEKOR MAYIM CHAYIM (ibid.) explains how the Ran will answer the proof of the Vilna Ga'on. In the case in Sanhedrin, the person was interested in doing more than just talking to the woman. The Chachamim said that, in general, a man should not talk in such a context to a married woman since it might lead to an actual transgression of Giluy Arayos. The case here is totally different, as the person involved has absolutely no interest in doing the actual sin of Avodah Zarah. Therefore, the Chachamim did not include this act in the category of "Yehareg v'Al Ya'avor." (Y. Montrose)

being hazed by a guy dressed in a costume is not construed by any participant as "worship"

Offline muman613

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 12:10:10 AM »
No matter what you say it sure has the appearance of idol worship. The wiki page has the name of the avodah zarah 22 times...
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 12:35:37 AM »
No matter what you say it sure has the appearance of idol worship. The wiki page has the name of the avodah zarah 22 times...

no, it has King Neptune. no deity is called king neptune. Only the guy at that ceremony is called that. Sorry Muman, your ignorance of the tradition/assumption of idol worship does not mean that idol worship is actually happening. Every single person in the US navy who crosses the equator goes through that rite of passage.

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 01:29:04 AM »
no, it has King Neptune. no deity is called king neptune. Only the guy at that ceremony is called that. Sorry Muman, your ignorance of the tradition/assumption of idol worship does not mean that idol worship is actually happening. Every single person in the US navy who crosses the equator goes through that rite of passage.

Do you know where the concept of king neptu comes from?

Here is a quote from wikipedia...

Quote
Neptune (Latin: Neptūnus) was the god of water and the sea[1] in Roman mythology and religion. He is analogous with, but not identical to, the Greek god Poseidon. In the Greek-influenced tradition, Neptune was the brother of Jupiter and Pluto, each of them presiding over one of the three realms of the universe, Heaven, Earth and the Netherworld. Depictions of Neptune in Roman mosaics, especially those of North Africa, are influenced by Hellenistic conventions.[2]

Unlike the Greek Oceanus, titan of the world-ocean, Neptune was associated as well with fresh water. Georges Dumézil suggested[3] that for Latins, who were not a seafaring people, the primary identification of Neptune was with freshwater springs. Like Poseidon, Neptune was worshipped by the Romans also as a god of horses, under the name Neptunus Equester, a patron of horse-racing.[4]

So maybe you just want to think it is a silly tradition... But most traditions, including knocking on wood, kissing the frog, and others... These all have pagan and idol worship associated with them...

You are free to disagree, but don't suggest that I am ignorant...

Thank you..

And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2011, 10:50:17 AM »
I think Muman is right on this one. Even if not done seriously it's still a pagan-style ceremony. Christians shouldn't do these types of things either.
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Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2011, 12:56:26 PM »
I think Muman is right on this one. Even if not done seriously it's still a pagan-style ceremony. Christians shouldn't do these types of things either.

Well that's too bad. Every single Jew, Christian, or even Muslim who has ever served in the US Navy and has crossed the equator has gone through this. Yes, even Rabbis who are chaplains. It's not pagan at all. You worship nothing. This is absurd. Where is the outcry from all the Navy personnell thatvare appalled by pagan practices going on?

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2011, 01:11:49 PM »
What's amazing to me, Muman, is that people that are out there, actively working to destroy JTF, like Joshua Rosenberg from australia, who has made that his life's work, and you're offended by this nonsense..but those threads about those who want to see JTF 6 feet under, those are bothersome to you

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2011, 02:13:28 PM »
Well that's too bad. Every single Jew, Christian, or even Muslim who has ever served in the US Navy and has crossed the equator has gone through this. Yes, even Rabbis who are chaplains. It's not pagan at all. You worship nothing. This is absurd. Where is the outcry from all the Navy personnell thatvare appalled by pagan practices going on?

Further reason why Jews and Righteous Gentiles should not join the U.S. military. There is no outcry, because of peer pressure and the fear of retaliation if any of the "pollywogs" get out of line.

The only point in these "traditions" is to humiliate and force people to degrade themselves. Once people have degraded themselves they are more likely to do whatever they are told even when its wrong.



Imagine a "Rabbi" having to go through this! What a Chillul Hashem!

With "traditions" like these no wonder there were 2,410 reported Sexual Assaults in the U.S. military. Who knows how many unreported cases of Sexual Assault happen in the U.S. military.
 
http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/DoD_Fiscal_Year_2010_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf pg 64 is where the statistics begin

« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 02:24:10 PM by Maimonides »
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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2011, 02:47:10 PM »
What's amazing to me, Muman, is that people that are out there, actively working to destroy JTF, like Joshua Rosenberg from australia, who has made that his life's work, and you're offended by this nonsense..but those threads about those who want to see JTF 6 feet under, those are bothersome to you

You give them too much credit... They are NOTHING and they will NEVER BE anything. I have no fear of them. Come on, you really are afraid of Joshua Rosenberg? You seem to have a fascination with him? Why is that?

Morality as taught from the Torah is something worth standing up for... Gossiping about trolls is foolish..

And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2011, 03:41:40 PM »
All of this stuff with the government doing things contrary to the will of the people is disgusting as is homosexuality.  It makes me want to puke.  The homosexual agenda is working its way through the fabric of this country and destroying it form within.  The clock is ticking!
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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2011, 04:21:45 PM »
I was thinking that firstly some arabi or afghani navy will accept such laws, then U.S. will follow the suit. However 2012 election is coming and the down sliding graph of eurocommunism may go up again.  
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 03:37:30 AM by syyuge »
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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2011, 04:35:50 PM »
I was thinking that firstly some arabi or afghani navy will accept such laws, then U.S. will follow the suit. However 2012 is coming and the down sliding graph of eurocommunism may go up again. 

You are kidding about Afghanistan right?  That country is full of homosexual depravity.  It is down right part of their accepted culture.  It makes me sick to my stomach!


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Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2011, 08:16:28 PM »
Further reason why Jews and Righteous Gentiles should not join the U.S. military. There is no outcry, because of peer pressure and the fear of retaliation if any of the "pollywogs" get out of line.

The only point in these "traditions" is to humiliate and force people to degrade themselves. Once people have degraded themselves they are more likely to do whatever they are told even when its wrong.



Imagine a "Rabbi" having to go through this! What a Chillul Hashem!

With "traditions" like these no wonder there were 2,410 reported Sexual Assaults in the U.S. military. Who knows how many unreported cases of Sexual Assault happen in the U.S. military.
 
http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/DoD_Fiscal_Year_2010_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf pg 64 is where the statistics begin



so peer pressure keeps them from saying how bad it is after they retire?

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Perversion prevails as the U.S. military embraces fags
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2011, 08:18:09 PM »
Further reason why Jews and Righteous Gentiles should not join the U.S. military. There is no outcry, because of peer pressure and the fear of retaliation if any of the "pollywogs" get out of line.

The only point in these "traditions" is to humiliate and force people to degrade themselves. Once people have degraded themselves they are more likely to do whatever they are told even when its wrong.



Imagine a "Rabbi" having to go through this! What a Chillul Hashem!

With "traditions" like these no wonder there were 2,410 reported Sexual Assaults in the U.S. military. Who knows how many unreported cases of Sexual Assault happen in the U.S. military.
 
http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/DoD_Fiscal_Year_2010_Annual_Report_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf pg 64 is where the statistics begin



all those navy guys that took out bin laden went through this too. I know, they are a bunch of homosexual pagans.