I gotta bring this up to the forum as its own topic

[briann]

I figured this should be its own topic... since it needs to be dealt as its own issue... and I don't want to just focus on Jbeige, since he decided to leave the forum on his own, and thats fine.

Although this forum should NOT be a race based forum, one of its draws is that it allows members to escape the P.C. world.  (as Bullcat says).  THis allows members such as Chinesekahanist, Rubystars, bullcat3, cjd, myself, etc etc like to mix in generalizations about blacks with our posts. 

But recently, many new members who say VERY similar things to what we say all the time, are being called Nazis, stormfronters, pedophiles, etc.  We don't do this for veteran members, and we SHOULDNT do it for new members either.

Based upon this standard, if some of our best members were to join today, they would all be ridiculed and called Nazis and be told to go to StørmFrønt.

Every time ChineseKahanist called a black person a monkey, we would tell him to go StørmFrønt!!
Every time Rubystars says blacks should not intermarry, we would tell her to got StørmFrønt!!
Every time I say blacks are more violent, you would tell me to go to StørmFrønt!

Get the point?  That being said, my favorite mainstream political commentator is Larry Elders, and I DO prefer Cain's politics to Romneys (I just think Romney has a better chance against Obama and dont want to gamble).  But I DO try to avoid black doctors, and I do lock my door when Im driving through black neighborhoods.  Does that make me a stormfronter?

Also, I hate the term Nazis and stromfronters to be trivialized.  Unless people show that they hate Jews, its really annoying, especially to us Jews, to see others trivialize the use of these terms.  I consider myself somewhat thick-skinned, but this is one of my absolute pet-peeves so I gotta speak up on it.

[Dr. Dan]

I figured this should be its own topic... since it needs to be dealt as its own issue... and I don't want to just focus on Jbeige, since he decided to leave the forum on his own, and thats fine.

Although this forum should NOT be a race based forum, one of its draws is that it allows members to escape the P.C. world.  (as Bullcat says).  THis allows members such as Chinesekahanist, Rubystars, bullcat3, cjd, myself, etc etc like to mix in generalizations about blacks with our posts. 

But recently, many new members who say VERY similar things to what we say all the time, are being called Nazis, stormfronters, pedophiles, etc.  We don't do this for veteran members, and we SHOULDNT do it for new members either.

Based upon this standard, if some of our best members were to join today, they would all be ridiculed and called Nazis and be told to go to StørmFrønt.

Every time ChineseKahanist called a black person a monkey, we would tell him to go StørmFrønt!!
Every time Rubystars says blacks should not intermarry, we would tell her to got StørmFrønt!!
Every time I say blacks are more violent, you would tell me to go to StørmFrønt!

Get the point?  That being said, my favorite mainstream political commentator is Larry Elders, and I DO prefer Cain's politics to Romneys (I just think Romney has a better chance against Obama and dont want to gamble).  But I DO try to avoid black doctors, and I do lock my door when Im driving through black neighborhoods.  Does that make me a stormfronter?

Also, I hate the term Nazis and stromfronters to be trivialized.  Unless people show that they hate Jews, its really annoying, especially to us Jews, to see others trivialize the use of these terms.  I consider myself somewhat thick-skinned, but this is one of my absolute pet-peeves so I gotta speak up on it.

I'll tell you, at first, jbiege didn't seem to anything bad to me when he first joined. He did say and believe in things that I wholeheartedly disagreed with, but it was simply just his opinion.

There are some people who come here and say things like jbiege who are new.  I don't approve of the wording.  It's not that I want JTF to only look respectable..I want some of us who have short tempers or unable to express ourselves intelligently to learn how to do it.  If I didn't know any better before I joined JTF, I would have been afraid to admit that I didn't trust blacks because of the racism stigma attached to that.  But I understand why I sometimes don't trust them.  It's not because they are black. It's because of the culture that many blacks belong to.  Therefore, it's not racism if it isn't genetic.  I think the majority of people, if they allowed themselves to feel that way, would agree with this and realize that not trusting blacks, for example, is because of the behavior that the majority DO and not the genetics.  The ones who don't trust all blacks (because of their genetic make up) are the storm fronters.  Some people who prescribe to my point of view of not trusting blacks because of culture, need to be able to articulate it in this manner..especially newbees.  Bottom line, before we attack them and call them names, we need to ask them what they mean.

And some of the long time JTFers who could come off to be misunderstood and seen as racists, see it like I do too.  They don't care about skin color. It's the behavior that bothers them.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Briann--how many of the people you mentioned get attacked for their views? Who is flaming you or Rubystars or cjd?

Did you see how jbeige went about stating his views? Do you really think nobody is going to raise their eyebrows at such statements as "no matter how good Cain talks his blackness will come out" or "Jews are merely the keepers of the land, it belongs to Christians"?

Do you and Rubystars and bullcat say dreck like that?

[Meerkat]

jbeige made it seem like skin color is his determining factor, i.e. as if its genetic.

there is a line between criticizing culture and being a racist, it seems like jbeige crossed it.

I am quite less critical of blacks than most of jtf, but i never call critics of culture stormfronters.

[Dr. Dan]

jbeige made it seem like skin color is his determining factor, i.e. as if its genetic.

there is a line between criticizing culture and being a racist, it seems like jbeige crossed it.

I am quite less critical of blacks than most of jtf, but i never call critics of culture stormfronters.

well said

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Not that it would necessarily be the worst thing in the world if he did think there was something genetic going on with the behavioral tendencies of blacks in addition to cultural factors.  He would just be likely incorrect.  We know that persecution and genocides can be and have been rationalized on purely cultural and religious grounds.

[Dr. Dan]

Not that it would necessarily be the worst thing in the world if he did think there was something genetic going on with the behavioral tendencies of blacks in addition to cultural factors.  He would just be likely incorrect.  We know that genocides can be and have been justified on purely cultural and religious grounds.

My motto is that everybody as free will.  Some have more difficulty making right decisions than others because of cultural and genetic tendencies.  But that doesn't excuse bad behavior.

[briann]

Briann--how many of the people you mentioned get attacked for their views? Who is flaming you or Rubystars or cjd?

Did you see how jbeige went about stating his views? Do you really think nobody is going to raise their eyebrows at such statements as "no matter how good Cain talks his blackness will come out" or "Jews are merely the keepers of the land, it belongs to Christians"?

Do you and Rubystars and bullcat say dreck like that?

WHAT???  I read through his posts and he didnt say that.   He just didnt like the term, 'own' he prefered the term 'keepers' as it sounds more appropriate for the holyland  And thats the WORST YOU CAN COME UP WITH???  That is deserving of calling somone a NAZI?  a Stormfronter???  a homosexual???  a pedophile???

[Zelhar]

I don't think I noticed a move to PC in the forum. The only thing is Chaim decided to stop with the affirmative action stories on his "ask JTF" program and that's his choice after all. I think people can speak here their mind and that includes both expressing un-PC opinions and humor and also expressing disagreement on such cases.

[briann]

I don't think I noticed a move to PC in the forum. The only thing is Chaim decided to stop with the affirmative action stories on his "ask JTF" program and that's his choice after all. I think people can speak here their mind and that includes both expressing un-PC opinions and humor and also expressing disagreement on such cases.

Well said Zelhar.  Calling people jew haters and nazis because they generailze blacks will KILL THIS FORUM... if you want to tell them you dont agree, thats fine... but dont use these terms.

[briann]

jbeige made it seem like skin color is his determining factor, i.e. as if its genetic.

there is a line between criticizing culture and being a racist, it seems like jbeige crossed it.

I am quite less critical of blacks than most of jtf, but i never call critics of culture stormfronters.

Beleive it or not Meerkat, it wasnt 911avenger's comments that disturbed me the most, it was yours.  911avenger has some justification, although I dont agree with it.  But your jjustification, would also apply to many members here.

TO prove my point, What is worse or more racist to you?:

Blacks are monkeys and we shouldnt interbreed with non-blacks.

or

We shouldnt vote for a black candidate, because they are all jew-haters and are only candidates because of affirmative action.(said by Jbeige)

The answer should be.... They both are racist.... BUT, the top comments are often said by many great members here.

But we dont call them stormfronters because we reserve this term for the most disgusting jew-hating vermin.

I respect that you dont agree with them...  thats fine.   I also respect all sorts of viewpoints on this forum.  But Using stormfronters to describe people on this forum like this is crossing the line since it makes many of our longtime members feel very uncomfortable and unwanted.  If you dont beleive me, read their comments.

That doesnt mean I dont want you to continue to have the opinions you have... all I am saying is not to use those terms unless you know the person is a jew hater.  Just say you think racism is wrong and I wont say anything, I may even agree with you from time to time.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I'm steering clear. I don't attack anyone.
Sarcastic? Mucho.
Oppugnare? Nullum.

[muman613]

jbeige posted something which disturbed me in the Jewish singles section... He mocked religious people and Judaism calling those who abstain from sexual relations 'in the stone age' and 'insane'... I cannot consider jbeige a good JTF member as a result...

[Dr. Dan]

Beleive it or not Meerkat, it wasnt 911avenger's comments that disturbed me the most, it was yours.  911avenger has some justification, although I dont agree with it.  But your jjustification, would also apply to many members here.

TO prove my point, What is worse or more racist to you?:

Blacks are monkeys and we shouldnt interbreed with non-blacks.

or

We shouldnt vote for a black candidate, because they are all jew-haters and are only candidates because of affirmative action.(said by Jbeige)

The answer should be.... They both are racist.... BUT, the top comments are often said by many great members here.

But we dont call them stormfronters because we reserve this term for the most disgusting jew-hating vermin.

I respect that you dont agree with them...  thats fine.   I also respect all sorts of viewpoints on this forum.  But Using stormfronters to describe people on this forum like this is crossing the line since it makes many of our longtime members feel very uncomfortable and unwanted.  If you dont beleive me, read their comments.

That doesnt mean I dont want you to continue to have the opinions you have... all I am saying is not to use those terms unless you know the person is a jew hater.  Just say you think racism is wrong and I wont say anything, I may even agree with you from time to time.

   The black people are monkeys comment is still funny when we say it about the most disgusting Jew-hating vermin.

but in all seriousness, both lines are not racist.. Just one of is.. The other one is an inaccurate comment stating that "ALL blacks are anti-semitic etc etc."  My advice to JTFers is that if you want to be effective and influential, you shouldn't say, "ALL" and other extreme words when referring to certain groups of people.  Use words like "MOST" or "FEW".  Far more effective in changing hearts or at least, getting respect.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

jbeige posted something which disturbed me in the Jewish singles section... He mocked religious people and Judaism calling those who abstain from sexual relations 'in the stone age' and 'insane'... I cannot consider jbeige a good JTF member as a result...

I did not know that.

[mord]

You know many of us like Colonel Allen West i think hes great, and Hermann Cain seems like a great guy a religious man who at first said no muslims in the cabinet i would vote for him.Understand this the pedofronters would vote for a muslim Jew hater before a righteous Black.I'll stick with a righteous Black anytime over a qurananimal loving pedofronter

[Dr. Dan]

jbeige posted something which disturbed me in the Jewish singles section... He mocked religious people and Judaism calling those who abstain from sexual relations 'in the stone age' and 'insane'... I cannot consider jbeige a good JTF member as a result...

Muman, I wish you told me about it when it happened.  I would have done something about it.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You know many of us like Colonel Allen West i think hes great, and Hermann Cain seems like a great guy a religious man who at first said no muslims in the cabinet i would vote for him.Understand this the pedofronters would vote for a muslim Jew hater before a righteous Black.I'll stick with a righteous Black anytime over a qurananimal loving pedofronter

I don't know why some longtime members of our forum (they know who they are) have such a hard time grasping such a basic principle of JTF and common sense.

[briann]

jbeige posted something which disturbed me in the Jewish singles section... He mocked religious people and Judaism calling those who abstain from sexual relations 'in the stone age' and 'insane'... I cannot consider jbeige a good JTF member as a result...

I understand that Muman.  I was reading through his posts, and that one stuck out as the most offensive, especially to the many religious members here.  If you want to ban him or whatever because of this alone, I honestly can understand as it is crossing the line.  Muman, you must know that I do everything to keep the more secular members here from offending the religious ones.  Its one of the more significant infractions.

HOWEVER, I was actually more focused on the stormfronter name-calling.  I think it did a HUGE amount of damage to the forum... not to everyone, but to a handful of longtime members who believe that a precedent has been set:  people who are racist or prejudice on this forum will now be refered to as stormfronters.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

HOWEVER, I was actually more focused on the stormfronter name-calling.  I think it did a HUGE amount of damage to the forum... not to everyone, but to a handful of longtime members who believe that a precedent has been set:  people who are racist or prejudice on this forum will now be refered to as stormfronters.

There are a few members here, who know who they are, that completely have blinders on for any member that is anti-black--be it Johnson Brown, Americanhero, or anyone else similar to them.

Time and time again these members have been proven to be Nazi trolls and yet these individuals continue to keep their head in the sand.

I'd like to see them give an account and defense for themselves.

[briann]

  The black people are monkeys comment is still funny when we say it about the most disgusting Jew-hating vermin.

but in all seriousness, both lines are not racist.. Just one of is.. The other one is an inaccurate comment stating that "ALL blacks are anti-semitic etc etc."  My advice to JTFers is that if you want to be effective and influential, you shouldn't say, "ALL" and other extreme words when referring to certain groups of people.  Use words like "MOST" or "FEW".  Far more effective in changing hearts or at least, getting respect.

I concur.  Again, I go back to Larry Elders, who is VERY pro-jewish and a great all-around guy.

[Rubystars]

I just want to make it clear that I don't think blacks are monkeys, but I do laugh sometimes when a particularly evil person is compared to a monkey, like Obama. Blacks are human beings with a human soul who need to answer to God the same that we do, and being black doesn't automatically make an individual any less righteous or any less intelligent. I've known many decent black people who would NOT deserve to be called a monkey.

I don't think whites should intermarry mostly for the fact that whites are declining both in numbers and as a percentage of the world population and a percentage of the USA population. It's not like it was a few centuries ago where there were more whites and a larger percentage of whites and the white race could afford to have that happen more often.

There is also the issue of children's identity. One girl I work with desperately wants to be white, and has talked about how she's passed for white in the past. She's a very dilute black with a lot of white blood. This has caused a lot of emotional things for her which I think spills over into how she interacts with other people and she's less happy than she would be if she were completely black or completely white.

I think teaching someone about their own heritage, no matter who they are, can be a source of self-esteem and give someone a grounded feeling, a sense of belonging. This is more difficult when someone's parents come from cultures that are very different.

Also I think grandchildren should generally look like their grandparents.

[briann]

There are a few members here, who know who they are, that completely have blinders on for any member that is anti-black--be it Johnson Brown, Americanhero, or anyone else similar to them.

Time and time again these members have been proven to be Nazi trolls and yet these individuals continue to keep their head in the sand.

I'd like to see them give an account and defense for themselves.

Thats not always the case.    Again, do you think Rubystars, chinese Kahanist, CJD,  or I am a Nazi Troll?

Why dont we just start calling them Stormfronters and tell them to leave the forum now.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I just want to make it clear that I don't think blacks are monkeys, but I do laugh sometimes when a particularly evil person is compared to a monkey, like Obama. Blacks are human beings with a human soul who need to answer to G-d the same that we do, and being black doesn't automatically make an individual any less righteous or any less intelligent. I've known many decent black people who would NOT deserve to be called a monkey.

I don't think whites should intermarry mostly for the fact that whites are declining both in numbers and as a percentage of the world population and a percentage of the USA population. It's not like it was a few centuries ago where there were more whites and a larger percentage of whites and the white race could afford to have that happen more often.

There is also the issue of children's identity. One girl I work with desperately wants to be white, and has talked about how she's passed for white in the past. She's a very dilute black with a lot of white blood. This has caused a lot of emotional things for her which I think spills over into how she interacts with other people and she's less happy than she would be if she were completely black or completely white.

I think teaching someone about their own heritage, no matter who they are, can be a source of self-esteem and give someone a grounded feeling, a sense of belonging. This is more difficult when someone's parents come from cultures that are very different.

Also I think grandchildren should generally look like their grandparents.

Rubystars, everyone knows what your opinions are. Some people differ with them but tell me--how often have you been flamed or called a Nazi because of it?

There is a difference between generally having a cynical attitude towards blacks, or thinking the races should stay separate, and using Nazi WN rhetoric about blacks, Jews, and religious people.

[briann]

I just want to make it clear that I don't think blacks are monkeys, but I do laugh sometimes when a particularly evil person is compared to a monkey, like Obama. Blacks are human beings with a human soul who need to answer to G-d the same that we do, and being black doesn't automatically make an individual any less righteous or any less intelligent. I've known many decent black people who would NOT deserve to be called a monkey.

I don't think whites should intermarry mostly for the fact that whites are declining both in numbers and as a percentage of the world population and a percentage of the USA population. It's not like it was a few centuries ago where there were more whites and a larger percentage of whites and the white race could afford to have that happen more often.

There is also the issue of children's identity. One girl I work with desperately wants to be white, and has talked about how she's passed for white in the past. She's a very dilute black with a lot of white blood. This has caused a lot of emotional things for her which I think spills over into how she interacts with other people and she's less happy than she would be if she were completely black or completely white.

I think teaching someone about their own heritage, no matter who they are, can be a source of self-esteem and give someone a grounded feeling, a sense of belonging. This is more difficult when someone's parents come from cultures that are very different.

Also I think grandchildren should generally look like their grandparents.

Actually, I wasnt refering to you when I was speaking of the monkey thing.  lol  I hope it didn't come off that way.