What I Hate About Mormons

[muman613]

The mormon religion engages in a practice called 'Baptism' where they will 'baptize' dead Jews and 'convert' them to Mormonism... I have always found this practice to be very offensive although in reality these people are just engaging in a form of Avodah Zara and the 'baptism' is only a fantasy in their shriveled brains. In reality the Jew remains Jewish and his/her soul remains in Gan Eden where it belongs, not in gehinnom where the mormons are destined. In their attempt to steal Jewish souls and 'convert' them to a form of idol worship is beyond an abomination. I hate them for this practice...

Recently I befriended a man who claims to believe in mormonism.... One of the first things I told him is that his church MUST cease to attempt to steal Jewish souls after they have left this world for their eternal reward.

Can you believe these KOOKS actually thinks that they converted Anne Franke {of blessed memory} to mormonism? That is beyond sick..


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opinion/dowd-anne-frank-a-mormon.html

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Aside from Joseph Smith, whom Hitchens calls “a fraud and conjurer well known to the authorities in upstate New York,” the writer also wonders about the Mormon practice of amassing archives of the dead and “praying them in” as a way to “retrospectively ‘baptize’ everybody as a convert.”

Hitchens noted that they “got hold of a list of those put to death by the Nazis’ Final Solution” and “began making these massacred Jews into honorary LDS members as well.” He called it “a crass attempt at mass identity theft from the deceased.”

The Mormons even baptized Anne Frank.

It took Ernest Michel, then chairman of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, three years to get Mormons to agree to stop proxy-baptizing Holocaust victims.

Mormons desisted in 1995 after Michel, as the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported, “discovered that his own mother, father, grandmother and best childhood friend, all from Mannheim, Germany, had been posthumously baptized.”

Michel told the news agency that “I was hurt that my parents, who were killed as Jews in Auschwitz, were being listed as members of the Mormon faith.”

Richard Bushman, a Mormon who is a professor emeritus of history at Columbia University, said that after “the Jewish dust-up,” Mormons “backed away” from “going to extravagant lengths to collect the names of every last person who ever lived and baptize them — even George Washington.” Now they will do it for Mormons who bring a relative or ancestor’s name into the temple, he said.

[Rubystars]

They're total kooks:

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I hope G-D (even through people and proper knowledge and the spread of it) destroys all religions and false beliefs. 

[briann]

Yes, that is very creepy and worth hating, but I can't say that I hate Mormons.

Do you hate Glenn Beck?  Even Chaim has said that he thinks Glenn is a good guy.  I listen to him regularly, and he is a VERY sincere guy who REALLY cared for the Jews more than most Jews care about themselves.

I cant hate him, because there is something I dont like about his dogma.  And most of the Mormons I have met and really gotten to know have very similar beliefs to him.  They are incredibly supportive of Israel.

I try to be tolerant of the gentiles that hate Mormons here, and I understand why, but I just can't agree with hatred towards this group.

[Zelhar]

The first criterion that I use to judge other religions is on how they treat the non-believers. How aggressively are they if at all in trying to convert people by persuasion, deceit or force to their religion. Then I also look at how they treat their own flock. And finally what are the actual principles of their faith.

So, if Mormons do this posthumous baptism I care very little. But the fact that they prey on living people with dishonest tactics is very disturbing. And their beliefs are very strange and very refutable, but what's more disturbing is that it seems they don't admit that they actually believe in those things, like for example, that Elohim is a man transcended into god or that women cannot achieve salvation without the backing of their man.

[Rubystars]

Yes, that is very creepy and worth hating, but I can't say that I hate Mormons.

Do you hate Glenn Beck?  Even Chaim has said that he thinks Glenn is a good guy.  I listen to him regularly, and he is a VERY sincere guy who REALLY cared for the Jews more than most Jews care about themselves.

I cant hate him, because there is something I dont like about his dogma.  And most of the Mormons I have met and really gotten to know have very similar beliefs to him.  They are incredibly supportive of Israel.

I try to be tolerant of the gentiles that hate Mormons here, and I understand why, but I just can't agree with hatred towards this group.

The fact that Glenn Beck agrees with us on some things politically doesn't excuse his kooky bizarre religion nor does it change the fact that he seeks godhood. I don't hate Mormons themselves but what they follow is wrong and is based on freemasonry and not really based on Christianity. The magic underwear they wear has a square and compass on it. They borrow about as much "Christian" stuff as the Muslims do.

[briann]

The fact that Glenn Beck agrees with us on some things politically doesn't excuse his kooky bizarre religion nor does it change the fact that he seeks godhood.

What about Hindu Zionist?  He is very supportive of our cause, but I could list some very disturbing things about Hunduism (Im not going to out of respect).

Chaim is right on his support for both Beck and Hindu Zionist.  If people are incredibly supportive of Israel and the Jewish people, that should take precedent over our disagreements about their theology, non matter how kooky it seems to us.

[Rubystars]

What about Hindu Zionist?  He is very supportive of our cause, but I could list some very disturbing things about Hunduism (Im not going to out of respect).

Chaim is right on his support for both Beck and Hindu Zionist.  If people are incredibly supportive of Israel and the Jewish people, that should take precedent over our disagreements about their theology, non matter how kooky it seems to us.

Hinduism for all its faults is not an outright cult, it's an established religion, even if there are a lot of things I personally don't like about it. Also Hinduism doesn't claim to be Christian like Mormonism does while spouting off anti-Christian beliefs.

I would work with Glenn Beck politically too, and I don't think he's necessarily a bad person, but the belief that one can become a god is very arrogant and to me anyone who really believes that and is trying to attempt to become that does have something wrong with them. It's a very selfish way of thinking too. 

[briann]

Hinduism for all its faults is not an outright cult, it's an established religion, even if there are a lot of things I personally don't like about it. Also Hinduism doesn't claim to be Christian like Mormonism does while spouting off anti-Christian beliefs.

I would work with Glenn Beck politically too, and I don't think he's necessarily a bad person, but the belief that one can become a G-d is very arrogant and to me anyone who really believes that and is trying to attempt to become that does have something wrong with them. It's a very selfish way of thinking too. 

Yes, I agree about the whole planet thing, very disturbing idea... as reincarnation as a cow. (Sorry Im bringing that up).

I actually have a mormon friend who I brought JTF to his attention, he sounded excited and interested about the forum.... but of course, I didnt expressly invite him, since I figured it would cause problems with some members here.

[Zelhar]

Yes, I agree about the whole planet thing, very disturbing idea... as reincarnation as a cow. (Sorry Im bringing that up).

I actually have a mormon friend who I brought JTF to his attention, he sounded excited and interested about the forum.... but of course, I didnt expressly invite him, since I figured it would cause problems with some members here.

Hindus are very open about their beliefs. They don't all believe in cows. Hinduism incorporates many beliefs. And some of them are actually atheists.

On the other hand mormons are not open and not honest about what they believe in. not unlike Scientology.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

 but the belief that one can become a G-d is very arrogant and to me anyone who really believes that and is trying to attempt to become that does have something wrong with them. It's a very selfish way of thinking too. 

 Umm, not trying to be offensive or start anything, but isn't that normative Christianity? (Or am I missing/misunderstanding something)? I thought its the same thing and that's why I'm wondering why the most outspoken agains't Mormans are other Christians that believe in a man-"god".

[Rubystars]

Umm, not trying to be offensive or start anything, but isn't that normative Christianity? (Or am I missing/misunderstanding something)? I thought its the same thing and that's why I'm wondering why the most outspoken agains't Mormans are other Christians that believe in a man-"G-d".

There are a lot of things that are misunderstood about that. I don't think it's a good idea to get into the details on the open forum out of respect for our Jewish members sensibilities but if you want to you can send me a private message and I'll talk further about it.

In short though in standard Christianity, we serve God, we don't ever seek to become God. That would be considered to be like the sin of Adam and Eve who thought they could be like God (the way it's taught in Christianity). So the Mormons take this original sin and make it their eternal goal. That's completely the opposite of what Christians believe.

That's as good of a summary as I can put in the open forum without ruffling too many feathers.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

There are a lot of things that are misunderstood about that. I don't think it's a good idea to get into the details on the open forum out of respect for our Jewish members sensibilities but if you want to you can send me a private message and I'll talk further about it.

In short though in standard Christianity, we serve G-d, we don't ever seek to become G-d. That would be considered to be like the sin of Adam and Eve who thought they could be like G-d (the way it's taught in Christianity). So the Mormons take this original sin and make it their eternal goal. That's completely the opposite of what Christians believe.

That's as good of a summary as I can put in the open forum without ruffling too many feathers.

 Ookay. Soo the difference is that mormans believe people become "god" while other Christian groups believe that "god" becomes people (or like people/man). - In simple terms.

[muman613]

Yes, that is very creepy and worth hating, but I can't say that I hate Mormons.

Do you hate Glenn Beck?  Even Chaim has said that he thinks Glenn is a good guy.  I listen to him regularly, and he is a VERY sincere guy who REALLY cared for the Jews more than most Jews care about themselves.

I cant hate him, because there is something I dont like about his dogma.  And most of the Mormons I have met and really gotten to know have very similar beliefs to him.  They are incredibly supportive of Israel.

I try to be tolerant of the gentiles that hate Mormons here, and I understand why, but I just can't agree with hatred towards this group.

I dont hate individual Mormons.... I have a friend who calls himself a mormon... But I hate a religion which thinks it can steal Jewish souls and count them amongst their numbers...

Glenn Beck may have good intentions, and his pro-Israel message is certainly a breath of fresh air...

[Rubystars]

Ookay. Soo the difference is that mormans believe people become "G-d" while other Christian groups believe that "G-d" becomes people (or like people/man). - In simple terms.

Well in the most simple terms I think it would be said by Christians that God related to people in a way they would be able to understand but it didn't in any way diminish the Divine nature. It's kind of complicated really but like I said it's not that good of an idea to get into it like this because I don't want people to think I'm missionizing even if I'm just trying to answer questions.

People who want to be just like God are committing a very serious sin according to traditional Christian belief.

[muman613]

I don't have any problem with a religion which suggests that man try to be like G-d... Judaism has such an idea also...

We are commanded to 'Walk in the ways of Hashem' and this is meant to teach us that we should do everything we can do in order to emulate the way of G-d. The sages interpret this to mean that as Hashem does Kindness/Chesed so too are we supposed to do Chesed, as HE visits the sick {as he did to Abraham} so too we should visit the sick... The sages say that man should not emulate the anger and vengeance of G-d though...


http://www.torahlab.org/calendar/article/if_g_d_can_do_it_you_can_do_it/

If G-d Can Do It; You Can Do It!

By Rabbi Yaacov Haber

G-d set you aside from all the nations of the world to be your G-d, so that you can walk in His ways. (Devorim 26;17)

G-d chose us to be able to walk in His ways. In simpler terms we can act like G-d acts; we can be kind like G-d is kind; we can forgive like G-d forgives; we can have the same type of mercy that G-d has.

One of the most basic differences between the Jewish belief and the Christian belief is that according to the Christians, G-d can manifest Himself as a human. According to Judaism man can act like G-d.

We have the potential to act like G-d! Man can be Godly and indeed has an obligation to do so. The Torah revealed that man was created in the image of G-d. That means that the human being has within himself or herself to act just like G-d, to “walk in His ways.”

The Talmudic Rabbis observed that acting kindly is so central to Judaism that the Torah itself begins with an act of G-d’s kindness and ends with an act of G-d’s kindness. It’s all about G-d’s kindness and how we can “walk in His ways”.

The Torah starts with kindness by telling us how G-d made clothing for Adam and Eve. The Torah ends with kindness by telling us that G-d Himself buried Moses.

Why did the Talmud choose the example of G-d making Adam and Eve clothing? Certainly there were earlier acts of kindness. He created the world, He created man; He gave man a wife; He put them in Paradise and on and on. That He made them clothing sounds almost small compared to the earlier generosities of G-d!

The answer: To create the world, man and his environment are acts of kindness but not yet acts of Godly kindness. After all G-d wanted a world and man. He was more than happy to provide everything that they needed. But then man sinned. He and his wife ate of the forbidden fruit and G-d evicted them from the Garden. When He removed them from paradise He brought pain and death to the world. In the midst of this rejection, G-d saw that Adam and Eve felt awkward in their nakedness and “He made them clothing”.  This is an act of Godly kindness. G-d was betrayed and violated yet He responded with kindness.

We can “walk in His ways” and indeed we are commanded to do so. We can be Godly.

This is how it’s done.  Find someone who you really don’t like, perhaps someone who has hurt you or betrayed your friendship. Now think of something you can do to make that persons life easier or a bit more pleasant. At this point you will find yourself saying; “but I am only human!” So remember, to be only human is to be created in the image of G-d. We are designed to be super human.

As we do kindness with those that are perhaps undeserving, we can turn to G-d and ask Him to do kindness for us and bless us with a new year full of G-d’s kindness and blessing.

[Rubystars]

Muman personally I think that aspiring toward a "godly" type of goodness  and kindness is a good thing too. However to actually think you're going to rule your own planet as its god and that God is just a regular human like all of us (which Christians don't believe, regardless of what you may have heard) is very wrong.

[muman613]

Muman personally I think that aspiring toward a "godly" type of goodness  and kindness is a good thing too. However to actually think you're going to rule your own planet as its G-d and that G-d is just a regular human like all of us (which Christians don't believe, regardless of what you may have heard) is very wrong.

I agree... I don't know too much about what they believe... I don't ask my friend any questions about his belief...

[Rubystars]

I agree... I don't know too much about what they believe... I don't ask my friend any questions about his belief...

If you ever do, ask him about the magic underwear with the square and compass on it, that he got during an "endowment" ceremony. Or don't... if you still want him as a friend.

It's not that hard to find information about what they believe though it's all over the net and a good chunk of it is in that video I posted.

[muman613]

If you ever do, ask him about the magic underwear with the square and compass on it, that he got during an "endowment" ceremony. Or don't... if you still want him as a friend.

It's not that hard to find information about what they believe though it's all over the net and a good chunk of it is in that video I posted.

I quite literally have no interest in 'comparative religion'.... I take literally the command from our Torah not to seek out the names of deities or the rituals of others...

[Rubystars]

I quite literally have no interest in 'comparative religion'.... I take literally the command from our Torah not to seek out the names of deities or the rituals of others...

That's well and good Muman under normal circumstances but when you have one of them running for president of the United States I think it's important to understand what they believe and how that might influence his decisions. Just like it's relevant that we have a Muslim in the white house, although Muslims are worse.

[briann]

Hindus are very open about their beliefs. They don't all believe in cows. Hinduism incorporates many beliefs. And some of them are actually atheists.

On the other hand mormons are not open and not honest about what they believe in. not unlike Scientology.

Guess what, the exact same is true with nearly every religion, including Mormonism.

Wikipedia

mainstream Mormonism" defined by the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). There are also two broad movements outside of mainstream Mormonism: Mormon fundamentalism, representing a conservative reaction to the LDS Church, and liberal reformist Mormonism, which advocates theologically liberal reform.

They even have a Lesbian/gay friendly movement now:

Restoration Church of Jesus Christ broke from the LDS Church as an LGBT-friendly denomination.

The Mormon I know does not beleive in many of the fundamentalist aspects.   He always refers to himeslf as an LDS member.

[Lisa]

Personally, Mormonism seems kind of kooky to me.  But then again, to each his own.  They don't engage in jihad, or acts of terrorism for one thing.  They don't blame people of other religions for the problems they create.  From what I've been told, their churches/temples engage in lots of charities for their members.  The ones I've had dealings with seem like smart, hard working people, who would never go on welfare and demand handouts.  

As for the posthumous conversions, there's something I don't understand.  How can Jews (or Christians) be converted to Mormonism without their even knowing it (due to being dead)?  If someone is going to leave the Jewish/Christian faith, don't they have to do it on their own?  I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is "yes."  If so, then what difference do these hocus pocus ceremonies really make?  

[muman613]

Personally, Mormonism seems kind of kooky to me.  But then again, to each his own.  They don't engage in jihad, or acts of terrorism for one thing.  They don't blame people of other religions for the problems they create.  From what I've been told, their churches/temples engage in lots of charities for their members.  The ones I've had dealings with seem like smart, hard working people, who would never go on welfare and demand handouts.  

As for the posthumous conversions, there's something I don't understand.  How can Jews (or Christians) be converted to Mormonism without their even knowing it (due to being dead)?  If someone is going to leave the Jewish/Christian faith, don't they have to do it on their own?  I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is "yes."  If so, then what difference do these hocus pocus ceremonies really make?  

The issue is that the Mormon records are used for genealogical research... If a person is looking to find the religion of their ancestors they may come across records that their ancestor was mormon {for example Anne Frank}... The LDS is one of the biggest databases for genealogical research..

Here is an online genealogy search @  http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp which uses the LDS records...


http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

http://www.ldsgenealogy.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Genealogical_Index

International Genealogical Index
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The International Genealogical Index (IGI) is a database of genealogical records, compiled from several sources, and maintained by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Originally created in 1969, the index was intended to help track the performance of temple ordinances for the deceased.

The IGI contains free genealogical information, submitted from various sources including names and data for vicarious ordinances by Latter-day Saints (LDS) researchers, records obtained from contributors who are not members of the church, and data extracted from microfilmed birth or marriage records. The index contains millions of records of individuals who lived between 1500 and 1900, primarily in the United States, Canada, Latin America, and Europe. Ongoing efforts are made to compile genealogical data from other regions and peoples.

The IGI contains many duplicate names, accumulated over time from many sources. Many IGI records contain information on the submitter and date of submission (but only with the submitter's consent). The IGI is available at FamilySearch, the LDS genealogy website.

In 1995, after a major controversy, a deal was struck between the Jewish and LDS communities to "Remove from the International Genealogical Index in the future the names of all deceased Jews who are so identified if they are known to be improperly included counter to Church policy."[1]

In 2008 The Vatican issued a statement directing its dioceses to keep parish records from Mormons performing genealogical research.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Judaism#Baptism_for_the_dead

[angryChineseKahanist]

I want to become a mormon so I can become a god and rule over a planet of my own and have endless sex with too many women.
That was a very nice bedtime story. I'll be sure to show it to my 4yo son.