Author Topic: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?  (Read 2377 times)

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Offline Chai

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Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« on: December 21, 2011, 10:14:32 PM »
Why?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 11:58:42 PM »
He made aliyah and brought his neighbors with him.   How is that "against zionism?"

Offline muman613

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 02:47:16 AM »
Here I repost from tzemachdovid.org a biography of the Baba Sali... What an exceptional righteous Jew he was...



http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/babasali.html

The Baba Sali, Rav Yisroel Abuchatzeira ZT"L

This article originally appeared in Yated Neeman, Monsey NY. and is reprinted here with their permission

Rav Yisroel Abuchatzeira, the great Moroccan tzaddik, was commonly known as the Baba Sali, or "Praying Father," because of his ability to work miracles with his prayers. This title, however, actually originated with an incident that occurred in Rav Yisroel's childhood.

Unlike most children his age, the young Rav Yisroel never longed for toys or sweets. All he wanted was a new siddur, the kind with large, shimmering letters.

One day his father, Rav Mas'ud Abuchatzeira, brought home such a siddur. But he was reluctant to give it to Rav Yisroel, fearing that its glitter might divert his son's attention from his prayers.

Rav Yisroel offered his father a proposition. "Let's make a deal," he said. "You give me the siddur, and if I pray with less fervor, you take it back."

"It's a deal," Rav Mas'ud replied.

Rav Mas'ud never did ask for that siddur back. Rav Yisroel prayed with great devotion and eventually became a pillar of prayer on whom Klal Yisroel rested.

ILLUSTRIOUS STOCK

Rav Yisroel Abuchatzeira descended from an illustrious family of Sephardic chachamim and tzaddikim, beginning with Rav Shmuel Abuchatzeira, who was known for his piety and scholarship.

Although Rav Shmuel was born in Eretz Yisroel, he lived in Damascus for a time, where he studied with Rav Chaim Vital. In Shem Hagedolim, the Chida refers to Rav Shmuel as an "Ish Elokim kadosh. Wise people speak of his might and wonders in saving the Jewish community from many difficulties."

The Abuchatzeira family eventually moved to the Moroccan city of Tafelatlech, where Rav Shmuel's son Mas'ud served as a rav. Rav Mas'ud's son Yaakov, known as the Abir Yaakov, succeeded his father as rav of Tafelatletch. Rav Yaakov was a great scholar who was known to be a baal mofeis.

The Abir Yaakov's oldest son, Mas'ud, followed in the family's footsteps and became an av beis din in Tafelatlech. It was there that his son, Rav Yisroel, the Baba Sali, was born.

A UNIQUE UPBRINGING

Rav Yisroel was born on Rosh Hashana 5650, and grew up in a home permeated with Torah and kedusha. The examples his parents set had a profound influence on him.

His family lived on a large estate. One wing contained a yeshiva, where budding scholars studied day and night. Rav Mas'ud's beis din was situated in another wing, and Rav Yisroel's oldest brother, David, studied in a room on the other side of the house.

Young Yisroel was eager to see how his father and brothers conducted themselves at mealtime. However, he hardly saw them at mealtime because they ate very little, in keeping with their ascetic lifestyles.

One of the main lessons Rav Yisroel learned in his home was that one should guard his tongue and use his power of speech only for Avodas Hashem.

Once, when Rav Yisroel was 10, he encountered a group of children who were fighting, and he denounced the child who started the fight. Later that day, he recounted the incident to his father.

"I was so angry at those children," he told him, "that I nearly cursed the instigator."

Rav Mas'ud listened carefully to Rav Yisroel's story, and used it as a springboard to teach him a lesson that eventually became the cornerstone of Rav Yisroel's way of life.

"My son," he said. "You are destined for greatness, and one day, all that escapes your lips will be fulfilled. As a result, you must only bless and speak well of others, and never curse anyone."

From that day on, Rav Yisroel was particular to always guard his speech.

Rav Mas'ud not only trained his children to guard their tongues, but also their eyes. On the rare occasions in which Rav Mas'ud went outside, he would cover his eyes with his cape to prevent himself from seeing inappropriate sights. From this behavior, Rav Yisroel learned the importance of Shmiras Einayim, guarding one's sight.

TORAH AND TESHUVA

Rav Yisroel was extremely diligent in his Torah learning, and as a youth, he studied day and night, sometimes in his brother's attic.

When he was 12, he began to fast during the Yemai Hashovavim, a special period between Teves and Adar that is conducive to teshuva. Knowing that his parents would refuse to let him fast in this manner, he hid his behavior from them.

Before long, however, his brother Rav David realized how weak and pale Rav Yisroel has become and understood that he was fasting.

"Yisroel," he told him, "you are too young to undertake such fasts. Besides, there is no need for you to fast during Yemai Hashovavim, since you haven't sinned."

Despite his brother's urgings, Rav Yisroel continued to fast.

After his bar mitzva, Rav Yisroel was accepted into the family's yeshiva, where a rigid learning schedule was maintained. The students rose for tikun chatzos and then studied kabbalistic works until dawn, when they would go to the mikveh.

After Shacharis and a light breakfast, they studied Gemara in depth until Mincha, and after Mincha they attended a shiur in Shulchan Aruch.

When Rav Yisroel was 16, he married Precha Amsalem, who served as a true helpmate throughout the many years of their marriage.

IN THE SHADOW OF WWI

With the outbreak of World War I, France gained control of many parts of North Africa without a struggle. A year after the French conquest, however, the residents of the region near Tafelatlech rebelled and drove out the French army. This rebellion was headed by the Moslem Mulai Muhamed, a cruel tyrant who appointed himself king and religious ruler of the area. He particularly harassed the Jews of Tafelatlech.

Three years after Mulai Muhamed's conquest, the French, who hadn't reconciled with the rebels, began to shell the rebels' outposts, which were very close to the Jewish districts.

During this period, Rav Yisroel studied diligently, totally ignoring the shelling. When the firing began, he hid under the stairs of his home and continued to study.

The situation, however, escalated, and Rav Yisroel decided to move his family and the yeshiva to a quieter area, so that they could study undisturbed. But it was too late. Mulai Muhamed had besieged Tafelatlech, and no one could leave or enter it.

In time, Mulai Muhamed's harassment of the Jews increased, and he even executed a number of Jews on the false grounds that they had collaborated with the French.

Shortly after Chanuka 5680, Mulai Muhamed issued a decree to massacre the Jews of Tafelatlech. However, he didn't specify the day on which he planned to execute his decree. Rav David Abuchatzeira consoled the distraught members of his community, revealing to them that he made many efforts to cancel the decree, among them a plea to Hashem to take his life as an atonement for the entire community.

While he was comforting them, soldiers appeared and ordered Rav David to come with them. He was then tied to a cannon and shot to death, dying al kiddush Hashem. The Jews of Tafelatlech had to bribe Mulai Muhamed to have Rav David's body returned to them, and they buried him according to Jewish tradition.

With Rav David's death, the Jews of the region decided to leave Tafelatlech and flee to nearby Arpud, where special efforts were made to redeem those taken captive by Mulai Muhamed. But Arpud was still close to the area ruled by Mulai Muhamed, and Rav Yisroel and his fellow townsmen soon fled to Bodniv.

TO BODNIV AND ERETZ YISROEL AND BACK AGAIN

Once in Bodniv, Rav Yisroel's followers asked him to serve as their rav, but he refused. He didn't feel he was spiritually ready to lead a community, nor did he feel worthy of succeeding his brother Rav David. He was greatly pained by his brother's murder and decided to go to Eretz Yisroel to print Rav David's sefarim

In 5682 Rav Yisroel, accompanied by his loyal attendant Moshe Shetreet, set out for Eretz Yisroel, passing through Algeria, Tunisia and then Egypt, where he visited the grave of his grandfather, the Abir Yaakov. From Egypt he set sail to Jaffa, and then went to Yerushalayim.

Once in Yerushalayim, he was greeted by former residents of Tafelatlech, as well as by many sages who had known the great rabbanim of the Abuchatzeira family. He stayed at the home of Rav Yosef Shlush, who helped him publish Rav David's works.

Rav Yisroel remained in Eretz Yisroel for a year. When he returned to Bodniv, he could no longer refuse the community's request that he serve as its rav and av beis din.

Rav Yisroel was very active in Bodniv, transforming the city into a vibrant Torah center with a large nucleus of talmidei chachamim.

Together with another one of his brothers, Rav Yitzchak, he reestablished the Abir Yaakov Yeshiva and attended to the city's spiritual and material needs, as well as to those of the nearby community of Arpud.

He soon gained fame for the potency of his blessings, particularly for the many instances in which he blessed water and the water was then used to bring about a miracle. He also thwarted the attempts of the enlightened Alliance, or Kol Yisroel Chaveirim Society, to corrode the Jewish values of Morocco's Jews.

SECOND VISIT TO ERETZ YISROEL

In 5693, Rav Yisroel made another trip to Egypt, leaving leadership of the community of Bodniv in the capable hands of his son, Rav Meir Shalom. In Egypt, he prayed beside the grave of the Abir Yaakov, and from there he traveled to Eretz Yisroel.

This time, he stayed in the Porat Yosef Yeshiva, spending most of his time with its rosh yeshiva, Rav Ezra Attia, Rav Yaakov Adas and Rav Aharon Harari Raful. After a while, he visited Tzefas, where a remarkable incident occurred.

Rav Yisroel had traveled to Tzefas with his attendant. After immersing in the Arizal's mikveh, he asked his attendant to take him to the Arizal's ancient synagogue. The attendant told him that the shul had been closed for a long time, because everyone who tried to enter it in recent years had died.

Rav Yisroel, though, was undaunted, and sent his attendant to the shul's gabbai to fetch the key. At first, the gabbai refused to comply, claiming that it was dangerous to enter the shul. Finally, when Rav Yisroel insisted that he give him the key, he yielded.

The attendant was terrified when Rav Yisroel asked him to accompany him inside. But Rav Yisroel reassured him, "Hold onto my cloak and follow me. Nothing will happen to you."

As soon as Rav Yisroel and his attendant entered the shul, Rav Yisroel opened the aron kodesh and read from one of the sifrei Torah. After reciting a short prayer, he told his attendant, "The danger has passed. I have conducted a tikun for the shul, and from now on, no one entering it will be harmed."

The gabbai, who had been waiting outside and was trembling in fear, didn't believe his eyes when he saw Rav Yisroel and his attendant emerge from the shul. That day, he told Tzefas' residents about the miracle, and the shul was once again accessible to all.

JOURNEY HOME

From Tzefas, Rav Yisroel went to Damascus to pray at the grave of Rav Shmuel Abuchatzeira. Then he returned to Yerushalayim to take leave of its sages before returning home. Rav Yisroel then set sail for Morocco.

Shortly after Rav Yisroel's boat to Morocco had set sail, however, a violent storm erupted at sea. The terrified passengers crowded into one corner of the ship and prayed for their lives. Rav Yisroel, though, went up to the ship's main deck and approached its railing. As the ship swayed from side to side, he removed a cup from his pocket, bent down and drew a bit of the rising seawater.

Then, while reciting a number of pesukim, he slowly poured the water back into the sea. Once all the water in the cup had returned to the sea, the storm subsided.

Back in Bodniv, Rav Yisroel's fame grew, and soon he was asked to serve as Morocco's chief rabbi. Although he was reluctant to accept such a position, he eventually yielded to his followers' pleas. Upon assuming that position, he and his family moved to Arpud, the capital city of the Risani district in southern Morocco. He and his family also spent the difficult years of World War II in Arpud.

PRAYING FOR SUCCOR

During World War II, news reached Arpud that the Nazis planned to overtake North Africa and from there advance to Egypt and Eretz Yisroel. Rav Yisroel immersed himself in prayer, and encouraged his followers to do teshuva.

When the Germans invaded North Africa, its Jews feared that their end was near. Yet even then, Rav Yisroel continued to pray, promising his community that if they did teshuva, the enemy wouldn't overtake them. A short while before the German troops reached the Risani region, the Americans arrived on the scene, saving the entire district.

After that, Morocco's Jews continued to pray for the welfare of their brothers in Eretz Yisroel, to where the Germans were rapidly advancing. While the Germans reached El Almein in Egypt, they soon retreated close to the borders of Eretz Yisroel.

During the War of Independence, Morocco's Jews, encouraged by Rav Yisroel, also prayed for the safety of Eretz Yisroel's Jews. Immediately after the war, many Moroccan Jews made aliya.

In 5710, Rav Yisroel decided to visit Eretz Yisroel once again, but this time, he planned to make it his permanent home.

HOME AT LAST

At first Rav Yisroel settled in Lod, not far from his brother Rav Yitzchak, who lived in nearby Ramle. But when he was offered the position of rav of Lod, he moved to Yerushalayim. There he rented a small apartment in the Baka neighborhood, and devoted himself solely to Torah study.

Three years after his arrival in Yerushalayim, he was offered the position of Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel, but he declined the offer.

Shortly afterward, the leaders of the small southern town of Netivot, most of whose residents were of Moroccan origin, invited him to move there.

At first, Rav Yisroel hesitated to accept their invitation because he wasn't certain whether Netivot was within the consecrated borders of Eretz Yisroel He discussed the issue at length with Rav Yissochor Meir, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas Hanegev. When the two concluded that Netivot did, indeed, have kedushas Eretz Yisroel, Rav Yisroel agreed to move there.

Within a brief period of time, Netivot became a famous and important town to which thousands flocked to receive the Baba Sali's blessings.

One of the first to visit him in Netivot was his brother Rav Yitzchak. Rav Yisroel, who was happy to see him, held a special seuda in his honor. At the end of the seuda, he pleaded with Rav Yitzchak to remain in Netivot for the night. However, Rav Yitzchak said that had to attend to a number of affairs early in the morning and preferred to return to Ramle that night.

Soon after Rav Yitzchak left Netivot, the car in which he was riding crashed. Rav Yitzchak was seriously injured and was niftar that night.

Rav Yisroel was broken by the news, and for a long time found it difficult to console himself over the loss of his beloved brother.

IMPACT ON NETIVOT

Rav Yisroel had a profound impact on Netivot and its surrounding settlements. Many residents of these settlements changed their entire lifestyles due to his influence and began to observe the mitzvos hateluyos ba'aretz. In time, the Negev began to bloom spiritually.

From the moment Rav Yisroel arrived in Netivot, large numbers of people lined up at his door, seeking his help. His prayers led to many miracles and resulted in great kiddush Hashem. Many people also returned to their roots as a result of his influence.

One of the most famous incidents involved a young man who was injured in battle.

The young man arrived at Rav Yisroel's home in Netivot in a wheelchair. He told Rav Yisroel his story: "I was injured by a bullet in my back during the Yom Kippur War. Although I underwent a series of operations, I am still a cripple and can't stand up. One of my legs is so bad that the doctors want to amputate it. A friend suggested that I visit the Rav, who is supposed to work wonders with his prayers. At first I refused. But in my despair, I decided to give it a try."

"Do you put on tefillin every day?" Rav Yisroel asked.

"No."

"Do you keep Shabbos?"

"No."

"If such is the case, " Rav Yisroel replied, "you should be thankful that only one leg is in such a serious condition. We believe that Hashem gives us healthy limbs so that we may serve Him. Those who don't keep the mitzvos should regard their healthy limbs as gifts."

At that, the young man burst into tears.

Rav Yisroel looked him the eye and asked, "If I bless you that you will be able to stand, will you begin to observe the mitzvos?"

"Yes," the young man eagerly replied.

"Then give me your hand, and may you have a refua sheleima."

After the young man kissed Rav Yisroel's hand, Rebbetzin Abuchatzeira told him to try and stand up. To his surprise, he was able to stand up immediately, and even take a number of steps without assistance.

Startled by the remarkable change in his situation, the young man ran out of the house in search of a telephone. The nearest telephone was in Yeshivas Hanegev, a few feet away from Rav Yisroel's home.

The young man raced over to the yeshiva, and called his family to tell them about the miracle. The yeshiva students, who overheard the conversation, were stunned. Taking him by the hand, they broke out into a fervent dance.

A short while later, the young man returned to Rav Yisroel's house with many of the yeshiva students, and a special seuda was held in honor of the miracle.

The young man's story spread like wildfire throughout the country, and caused many to adopt a Torah lifestyle.

This is only one story out of the many thousands of accounts of the great miracles brought about by the Baba Sali's prayers.

RELATIONSHIP WITH GEDOLIM

Due to the Baba Sali's kedusha and unique conduct, the gedolei Yisroel of his time respected and admired him.

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When the Baba Sali met the Chazon Ish, the Chazon Ish called him "an oved Hashem gadol."

HIS PETIRA

During his final years, Rav Yisroel suffered from many painful ailments. He was niftar on the 4th of Shevat, 5744. Thousands of people from all over the country attended his levaya, and mourned the loss of a great tzaddik who, with his prayers, had worked wonders.

Rav Yisroel was buried in a special plot in Netivot. Many visit his grave every day, certain that he who prayed for them during his lifetime will certainly intercede on their behalf in the World of Truth.

Zechuso Yagen Aleinu.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 02:54:44 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 02:59:49 AM »
For those who have a short attention span:

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Chai

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 08:15:34 AM »
I mean he moved to israel how can they make such a claim I wont advertize the erev rav website that claims this

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 09:10:15 AM »
Why?

 I have seen different (false) claims made about different people especially once they passed away. They (and its probably the same site you saw this) claim the RambaM and RambaN were against going to Israel. Anyone familiar, that is who read the works of the RambaN and RambaM knows the exact opposite to be true. Anyway don't fall for this Haredi revisionism. And by the way some of the sources I checked that they have are deliberately misquoted. These people have no, none credibility.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline GunsAndRosesFan

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 01:39:28 PM »
His followers don't usually join the army..
Islam is a a cancer that threatens humanity with its complete intolerance, infinite jelousy and virulent odium.
Death to the cult of Satan! Death to Islam!

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 02:04:55 PM »
His followers don't usually join the army..

 Who exactly are "his followers" ? Many of the people who came to him are ordinary people, ordinary Sefardim, many times (unfortunately) not even fully religious. These are regular Israeli folks. Be careful from where you read and what is told to you. What your saying here simple does not make sense, and I have seen propaganda (that also is false) propagated before, soo beware.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Chai

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 04:35:07 PM »
Is this a misquote?: , What did Maimonides really say?

Maimonides, Iggeres Teiman – Letter to Yemen

    Maimonides, Iggeres Teiman
    Maimonides

[Maimonides wrote this Letter to the Jewish Community of Yemen almost 1,000 years ago]

And as King Solomon knew with divine inspiration that the Jewish People would face the consequences of this and that suffering would come upon them, and warned the Jewish People not to do this (i.e. violate the Three Oaths), and in a metaphorical way made them swear not to commit these acts, as it is written in Song of Songs, 3,5: I made you swear Daughters of Jerusalem by the deer and gazelles of the field should you arouse or awaken love until it is so desired.

Therefore, you, dear brethren, must accept the Oath and do not attempt to arouse the love until the proper time when the Alm-ghty shall remember us and you with his trait of mercy to gather his portion from Exile to behold his glory at his holy Temple and redeem us from the Valley of the shadow of Death where he has placed us, thereby removing the darkness from our eyes and the fog from our hearts. He will then fulfill in our days and in yours the verse from Isaiah 9:1 The nation wandering in darkness shall see a great Light, and a Light shall shine on those residing in the land of the shadow of death. At that time G-d shall darken the eyes of all those who rise up against us, and fulfill the verse from Isaiah 60:2 Verily darkness shall cover the land and fog shall cover nations, but the light of G-d shall shine upon you, and you shall display his honor.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 04:48:33 PM »
Pardon the ignorance but who is Babasali?

Offline muman613

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 05:01:47 PM »
Pardon the ignorance but who is Babasali?

A Jewish sage, a Kabbalist, and according to some accounts a 'performer of miracles'... He died in 1984...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_sali

Quote
Rabbi Yisrael Abuhatzeira (Hebrew: ישראל אבוחצירא‎), known as the Baba Sali (Arabic: بابا صلى‎, Hebrew: באבא סאלי‎, lit. "Praying Father") (1890–1984) was a leading Moroccan Sephardic rabbi and kabbalist who was renowned for his alleged ability to work miracles through his prayers.[1] He was one of the leaders of the Aliyah of Moroccan Jewry to Israel, which saw the transfer of nearly the entire population of that community to the Holy Land. His burial place in Netivot, Israel has become a shrine for prayers and petitioners.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 05:04:11 PM »
Is this a misquote?: , What did Maimonides really say?

Maimonides, Iggeres Teiman – Letter to Yemen

    Maimonides, Iggeres Teiman
    Maimonides

[Maimonides wrote this Letter to the Jewish Community of Yemen almost 1,000 years ago]

And as King Solomon knew with divine inspiration that the Jewish People would face the consequences of this and that suffering would come upon them, and warned the Jewish People not to do this (i.e. violate the Three Oaths), and in a metaphorical way made them swear not to commit these acts, as it is written in Song of Songs, 3,5: I made you swear Daughters of Jerusalem by the deer and gazelles of the field should you arouse or awaken love until it is so desired.

Therefore, you, dear brethren, must accept the Oath and do not attempt to arouse the love until the proper time when the Alm-ghty shall remember us and you with his trait of mercy to gather his portion from Exile to behold his glory at his holy Temple and redeem us from the Valley of the shadow of Death where he has placed us, thereby removing the darkness from our eyes and the fog from our hearts. He will then fulfill in our days and in yours the verse from Isaiah 9:1 The nation wandering in darkness shall see a great Light, and a Light shall shine on those residing in the land of the shadow of death. At that time G-d shall darken the eyes of all those who rise up against us, and fulfill the verse from Isaiah 60:2 Verily darkness shall cover the land and fog shall cover nations, but the light of G-d shall shine upon you, and you shall display his honor.

 That is NOT Halahic in nature. What the Rambam said in Halacha (and Halacha is what we follow) is nothing like this. I have read that before and I know exactly which site you are taking that from. But for them to claim all those Rabbis are "anti-Zionists" are complete distortions of the Torah and what those Rabbis said and believed in. I saw the list and I can show you those same Rabbis with quotes saying the exact opposite, and how much they actually were "Zionists" if you want to use that term.
 This is mostly propaganda and some people fall for it.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 05:05:14 PM »
Also from Maimonides, from that letter and also from his HALAHIC work
"
This is what abolished our kingdom, destroyed our Beit HaMikdash, prolonged our exile, and brought us to our present predicament. Our fathers sinned and are no more.

For they found many astrology books, followed them, and went astray. They imagined that these wisdoms were glorious and greatly beneficial, and they did not study warfare and land conquest. Instead, they imagined that these wisdoms would help them. Therefore, the prophets called them fools; and they certainly were fools, for they followed vanities which cannot avail nor rescue, for they are vain.   (Iggrot U'Teshuvot LeRambam, Iggrot Shonot, p. 21. 204)

The Rambam writes as follows: (Rambam, Laws of Kings and Their Wars, 7:15) "A man should not think at the time of war of his wife, nor of his children, nor of his possessions, but he must free his heart of everything and set himself to the battle. And more - he should think that the entire existence of Israel depends on him. And if he is afraid and turns back, it is as if he spilled the blood of his comrades. And regarding this, it is written: 'Not to melt his brother's heart like his heart'... For everyone who fights with all of his heart, and with the intention to sanctify the Name of Hashem, is promised that he will not be harmed... and he will merit the life of the World To Come." (Rambam, Laws of Kings and Their Wars, 7:15)
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 06:25:52 PM »
Their are many Rabbis that they falsify teachings. (And who can confirm people who passed away? Besides going to their own works and seeing what they really said and not some quotes here and there, which many times are deliberately misquoted as I personally saw when looking up some of these sources). Here another great Rav they misquote and distort, the great Yaabetz- Rav Yaakov Emden.
 FROM SIDDUR KOL YAAKOV
AUTHORED BY THE YAAVETZ
IT IS IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT FACING JERUSALEM IS
NOT ENOUGH; EVERY JEW IS OBLIGATED TO MAKE A FIXED
RESOLUTION TO LIVE IN ERETZ ISRAEL, AND PRAY BEFORE THE
PALACE OF THE KING.
It is well known that a person who prays is required to face Jerusalem, and as cited
above there are sources for this throughout the Tanach. It is important to emphasize that
facing Jerusalem is not enough; every Jew is obligated to make a fixed resolution to live
in Eretz Israel, and pray before the palace of the King. [This applies even in the present
age,] for even though the Holy Land is destroyed, the Divine Presence has not left it.
It is possible that we will be prevented from actually living in Eretz Israel by forces
beyond our control, in which instance we are under no obligation, and G-d will consider
it as if we had actually done so. But even so, that cannot substitute for actual deed. And
in a time when we are not held back by forces beyond our control and there is prosperity,
every person should actually go to live in Eretz Israel (i.e., when he can support himself
through a profession or through commercial activity or by receiving his needs from
others, so that we can settle our Holy Land, which is lying desolate without its children).
Indeed, a person who lives in the Diaspora is like one who “lives without the true G-d.”
Thus when King David was forced to take refuge in the land of the Philistines while
fleeing from King Saul, he said (I Samuel 26:19): “They have driven me out today from
dwelling in the heritage of G-d, saying ‘Go serve other G-ds.’” And our Sages state
(Avodah Zarah Sa) that a Jew who lives in the Diaspora is considered to be one who
serves other G-ds in purity.
Therefore, listen to me, my brethren who are living in a land that is not our own, an
impure land. Remember G-d, and keep Jerusalem alive in your hearts. Persist, do not
remain silent. “Take no rest. And Give Him no rest until He establishes her, until He
makes Jerusalem an object of praise” (Isaiah 62:6-7).
DO NOT THINK OF PERMANENTLY SETTING IN THE DIASPORA. THIS
WAS THE SIN OF OUR ANCESTORS, THE JEWS WHO LEFT EGYPT,
WHO BROUGHT ABOUT LAMENTATION FOR ALL TIME. FOR THEY
“DESPISED THE CHERISHED LAND,” (PSALMS 106:24)
thus, bringing about an exile, where we are continually the object of persecution. never
have we enjoyed lasting peace and prosperity in these lands, wearily we have fled from
persecution to persecution without respite. We have become forgotten, because we have
forgotten Eretz Israel entirely. There is not even one out of a thousand who considers
settling in the land, merely, one man in a country, two people in an entire generation. No
one seeks her welfare or desires to see her.
2
WHEN WE LIVE IN PROSPERITY IN OTHER COUNTRIES, IT IS AS IF
WE HAVE FOUND A NEW PROMISED LAND AND A NEW
JERUSALEM. PRECISELY THIS IS THE ATTITUDE THAT HAS
CAUSED ISRAEL ALL OF THE DIFFICULTIES SHE HAS SUFFERED
THROUGH HER PROLONGED EXILE.
For example, from the time of the First Temple onward, the Jews had been living in
Spain. But when in their prosperity, they forgot they were living in exile, mixed among
the gentiles and learned their way of life, G-d caused them to be driven out from that land
to the extent that no reminder of Israel was left there.
“This is Zion, for whom no one cares” (Jeremiah 3 0:17). She is forsaken, and forgotten.
We have not remembered our desire to return to our native land, nor have we sought out
the city where our ancestors are buried. We have desired to establish a dwelling among
the nations where there is no Torah. It is written (Ibid. 9:11-12): “Who is the wise man that
understands this?... For what reason was the land destroyed, becoming parched like a
desert?... G-d said: ‘Because you have forsaken My Torah.”
The Jewish people are referred to as “the heritage of G-d” (II Samuel 20:19), and our Holy
Land is referred to by that same term. Implied is that the Torah cannot exist without
these two factors: the people of G-d living on the land that is His heritage. And when one
is forsaken, the other is also abandoned. Thus, the Midrash states (Bereishis Rabboh
46:9): “If you enter the Land, you accept Me as G-d. If not, your acceptance is lacking.”
There is no need to elaborate on this point. For the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the
books of wisdom, and the commentaries on the Torah. (e.g., the Ramban and Rav
Avraham Ibn Ezra) are filled with praise of Eretz Israel and those who dwell there. In
particular, this is true of the holy text, the Kuzari, which devotes much attention to the
importance of Eretz Israel, and indeed, concludes on this note.
The Talmud (Ketubot 110b) records the opinion of Rav Yehudah, who says that anyone
who ascends from Babylon to Eretz Israel commits a transgression. Nevertheless, that
view is refuted by the Talmud, which demonstrates that the proof-text that he cites refers
to the sacred vessels…Despite all the advantages the Talmud mentions (Kesubos 111a)
with regard to those who live in Babylon - that they will not be affected by the birth pangs
of the coming of Moshiach, and that Babylon will be called “a refuge” - leading Sages of
the Talmud left their dwelling places and endured hardship to live in the land that Moses
and Aaron did not merit.
IT IS THUS OBVIOUS WHAT WE SHOULD DO - WE WHO LIVE IN THE
FAR NORTH WHERE THE LIGHT OF G-D’S PRESENCE HAS NEVER
BEEN REVEALED, FAR FROM THE HOLY LAND AND THE HOLY
TONGUE. SURELY, WE SHOULD STRIVE TO ASCEND TO OUR
CHERISHED LAND, USING ANY MEANS OF CONVEYANCE.
Rain and snow should not hold us back. Nor can danger be used as an argument during
a time of peace. For the fact that we must travel on ship over seas and through deserts
cannot be considered a danger. First, the mitzvah we are striving to perform will protect
3
us. And furthermore, we see that kings and princes travel by ship. And so do merchants
and laborers for the sake of personal gain. Indeed, to make a profit people will journey to
Africa, to India and to Western lands, but they will not undertake such effort for the sake
of the glory of their Creator, the satisfaction of their souls and the attainment of a portion
in the world to come….
…As I mentioned, even in the era of the Talmud the Sages of Babylon would ascend to
Eretz Israel. On this basis, we can understand the statement of our Sages’ that the Sages
of Babylon excel because they do not study in their native locales; i.e., they ascend to
Eretz Israel. It is true that Ray Assi did not perceive these qualities in the Babylonian
students, for they were more fashionably dressed than the students of the Torah in Eretz
Israel and did not appear to be genuine Torah scholars. But Rabbi Yochanan did.
Although the Torah scholars of Eretz Israel surpassed those of Babylon to the point that
the Babylonians would think that one scholar from Eretz Israel was equal to two from
Babylon, when the scholars from Babylon ascended to Eretz Israel, they increased in
stature to the point that one immigrant Babylonian was equivalent to two native Israelis.
The relationship between Babylon and Eretz Israel can be further understood on the
basis of the following passage (Nedarim): The Sages sent a message from Eretz Israel to
Babylon with the directive: “Take care of personal hygiene, study with a colleague and
provide for the poor, for they will become a source of Torah knowledge.”
As explained in that source, a lack of personal hygiene leads to insanity. It is necessary
to issue this warning to the inhabitants of Babylon, because the Biblical curses
(Deuteronomy 28:65): “And there G-d will give you a frantic heart, unsatisfied longing
and suffering of soul” apply “there,” in the lands to which the Jews were dispersed, but
not to Eretz Israel. Because these qualities of spiritual unrest are more
prevalent in the Diaspora, greater precautions have to be taken there
to prevent insanity from arising.
Similarly, it was necessary to urge the Babylonians to study with a partner, because the
failure to do so can have negative consequences. In Eretz Israel, there is less to fear
from these negative consequences, for “the atmosphere of Eretz Israel makes one wise”
(Bova Basra 158b). Also, the Babylonians were warned to provide for the poor - i.e., for
poor Torah scholars who would ascend to Eretz Israel. For if these poor scholars would
not have their needs provided for and could not dress in a respectable manner, they
would not ascend to Eretz Israel….
….This decline in respect came about because the scholars lived in the Diaspora.
Although they studied the Torah there, they did not find success in their studies, nor did
they retain what they had learned. Therefore, they did not win the respect of the common
people.
….And once the honor of the Torah is nullified, there will be no awe [for the sages], and
ultimately, the study of the Torah will be nullified. This is hinted at in the words of the
4
prophet (Eichoh 2:9): “Among the nations, there is no Torah.” All of this came about
because their Torah study was not intended for the sake of heaven, as manifest by the
fact that they did not seek to [ascend to Eretz Israel,] the reservoir of the Torah, where
the company of other sages would enable their knowledge to be retained….
…One may protest: Why such severe criticism of the scholars of the Diaspora for
forgetting their studies? This is not willful. And as our Sages taught (Avos 3:10), a
person is not held responsible for forgetting his studies unwillingly. Nevertheless, in the
Diaspora there is no excuse, because this forgetfulness could be prevented by
ascending to Eretz Israel. This is alluded to in the conclusion of the proof-text “nor
walked in its [path]” - i.e., they have not journeyed to Eretz Israel for the Torah’s sake.
[The need to travel to retain one’s Torah knowledge is alluded to by the verse
(Deuteronomy 33:3):] “They follow Your footsteps” - to Eretz Israel - “and they raise high
Your word” - the Torah, Similarly, it is said! “When you weary your feet by traveling from
land to land, you will merit to receive the Divine Presence.”
There are many mitzvos that can only be performed in Eretz Israel and cannot be
performed in the Diaspora. [This has an effect not only on the practice of the Torah, but
also on its study,] for “study is great because it leads to deed” (Kiddushin 40b). (And
when a person studies without intending to observe, he is not worthy of life, for his study
is not for G-d’s sake.) In such a situation, it is appropriate that the Torah be forgotten and
that our Holy Land lose its strength to nurture. Therefore the land demands its respect; it
blames those who abandoned her for its loss of potency, and seeks to be restored to its
function of sustaining those who desire to bask in its glory.
I have elaborated on this matter for the sake of the glory of our holy land which is
forsaken and left desolate. For the sake of Zion, I will not remain silent. For the sake of
Jerusalem, I will not be still. (Isaiah 62:1) A voice is crying out; clear a path for the nation,
remove the obstacles, allow the people to approach without tarry.
In truth, it is a continuous source of wonder: Why do the holy Jewish people who are
stringent in the observance of many Mitzvot, sparing neither money nor effort to observe
them in a complete manner, remain remiss in the observance of this cherished Mitzvah
on which the entire Torah depends? It is a great challenge for a person to leave his
native land and move, traveling to a distant land through countries with whom he is not
familiar, nor does he know their language. And every journey causes a person certain
losses.
NEVERTHELESS, WHEN WE CONTEMPLATE THE UNCERTAIN STATUS OF OUR
DWELLING IN EXILE IN THE DIASPORA, IT WILL BE EASIER FOR US TO DIRECT OUR
PATHS TO G-D AND SEEK OUT OUR INHERITANCE. TO BE MORE SPECIFIC: WHEN G-D
HAS GRANTED A PERSON WEALTH AND PROPERTY, AND HE IS NOT LACKING
ANYTHING THAT HE DESIRES, IT IS LUDICROUS - AND EVEN A SIGN OF ILLNESS - TO
ASSUME THAT G-D WILL NOT GRANT HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO REJOICE IN HIS
PORTION AND ESTABLISH AN INHERITANCE IN OUR LAND. INDEED, IT IS WRITTEN
(PSALMS 3 7:29): “THE RIGHTEOUS WILL INHERIT THE LAND AND WILL DWELL
FOREVER UPON IT.”
5
(Moreover, even with regard to the land’s business potential, there is nothing lacking.
You will partake of the labor of your hands and be happy. [Everyone will be granted his
needs. Nevertheless,] one should not seek to pursue the vanities of the world there. With
regard to such people, it is said (Jeremiah 2:7): “And they came and defiled My land.”)
Perhaps people will say that before preaching to others, I should correct my own
personal situation. In truth, for many years, this has been my intent. I resolve - without
tying myself to a vow - that if G-d will grant me life and health, and remove the obstacles
to my path, I will not be daunted by the many harrows of the journey and my weak body.
May G-d who showed me difficult travail and yet sustained me in life, grant me in His
wondrous kindness the potential to ascend to His chosen land and there attain the
perfection of my soul in the holy land.
He knows our hidden thoughts. “A broken and a crushed heart, G-d will not despise”
(Psalms 51:19). In truth, being forced to continue living in the Diaspora is against my will
and my desire. Although I have been granted a dwelling of honor and the opportunity for
Torah study and prayer, my eyes are always looking toward Mt. Moriah. Nevertheless,
while there is conflict among the nations, it is impossible to make a journey by sea. And
while my children are young, I am unable to journey by foot. Moreover, in both a spiritual
and a material sense, I have not prepared myself sufficiently for the journey. For one
should not approach the palace of the King with empty hands. Were it not for these
factors, I would to ascend to the mountain of G-d. May it be His will that this delay be
beneficial, enabling myself and others the potential to gain merit.
You the children that G-d granted me as signs and wonders in Israel, listen to Jacob your
father and to what I command you with regard to Eretz Israel. For it is time to be gracious
unto her earth and stones; the appointed time has come.
…Listen to me and take pleasure in your souls. May you merit the fulfillment of the
prophecy (Isaiah 58:14): “You will delight in G-d, and [He] will cause you to ride on the
high places of the earth and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father,” a heritage
without any boundaries.
WHEN A PERSON MAKES A FIRM RESOLVE TO ASCEND TO ERETZ ISRAEL
WHEN HE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO, AND HE TARRIES IN THE
DIASPORA ONLY BECAUSE OF FORCES BEYOND HIS CONTROL, HIS RESOLVE
WILL BENEFIT HIM, AND HIS PRAYERS WILL BE ACCEPTED AS IF HE RECITED
THEM WHILE STANDING IN ERETZ ISRAEL. AND INDEED, HIS PRAYERS WILL
HELP MAKE STANDING IN ERETZ ISRAEL A REALITY FOR HIM.

 Found on Israel613.com (under Eretz Yisrael, many many Rabbis and their teachings about Eretz Yisrael and its importance).
 
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 06:43:14 PM »
The Three oaths are no longer binding because the Nations of the world have violated their part of the bargain by overly oppressing the Jewish people during the exile. I have spoken about this with several Rabbis and all those I know agree that the nations are in violation of the oath and thus we have no obligation to keep it...


http://www.divreinavon.com/pdf/TheThreeOathsOfJewishHistory.pdf

The Three Oaths of Jewish History
R. Mois Navon


The Gemara, in the name of R. Yossi bar R. Haninna, brings three oaths that G-d made the Jewish people and the nations of the world swear to uphold:

One, that Israel should not ascend [altogether] like a wall;1 and
One, that the Holy One, blessed be He, made Israel swear that they would not rebel against the nations of the world; and
One, that the Holy One, blessed be He, made the nations swear that they would not oppress Israel too much.
(Ketubot 111a)

These oaths are derived from the three-fold repetition of the verse, “I made you swear, daughters of Jerusalem, do nor stir nor awake the love until it pleases” (Shir Ha-Shirim 2:7, 3:5, 8:4). The verse is interpreted to mean that the people of Israel, once in exile, are not to return to their land until it pleases G-d.

While the derivation of the oaths is purely midrashic, great rabbis throughout the ages have taken them to be wholly binding on the people of Israel. Rabbi Yitzchak Leon writes, “The commandment of possessing the land only applied during the periods of Moshe, Yehoshua and David and all of the time that they were not exiled from their land; but after they were exiled from their land, this commandment does not apply during subsequent generations until the coming of the Messiah since, on the contrary, we were commanded, according to what our Sages stated at the end of Ketubot, that we
should not rebel against the nations to go and conquer the land by force …” (Sefer Megillat Esther, Aseh 4).2 According to R. Leon, the Jews as a nation are to await the coming of the Messiah to fulfill the commandment of possessing the land, the oaths binding them from doing otherwise.3
Similarly R. Yitzhak Abrabanel (Yeshuot Meshiho, Part I, s.v., v’hahodaah) writes that the oaths bind Israel “to suffer the yoke of their exile and dwell under the rule of the nations until the final days … and not to rebel and leave the exile before the time fixed by G-d.” Noting the failed attempt of the tribe of Ephraim to leave Egypt before the given end,

Abarbanel explains that once a period of exile has been proclaimed, the nation must abide by the decree lest it bring utter destruction upon itself.

.
.
.

Oath 3: Suffering
The third oath declares that “the Holy One, blessed be He, made the nations swear that they would not oppress Israel too much.” R. Betzalel Ashkenazi (Sheeta Mekubetzet, ad loc.), in the name of the students of the Rashba, writes that G-d cannot bear to see Israel oppressed, so that if the nations oppress Israel too much, this will arouse G-d’s compassion for them, “causing the redemption before its time (shelo bizmana) as it is stated in general: When the time of their redemption will come (k’she’yagia zemanam ligael), G-d will install a king whose decrees are like those of Haman causing the Jews to returnto their better selves whereupon they are immediately redeemed.”

There are two significant difficulties with this teaching of the students of the Rashba that, once explained, will shed light on the mechanism of this third oath. First, the oppression of the Jews is said to cause the redemption before its time (shelo bizmana), however, the proof text used teaches that an oppressive king will be installed “when the time of their redemption comes.” So does oppression cause the redemption before its time or at the appointed time? Second, if G-d cannot bear to see the oppression of the Jews, how is it that He Himself installs a king to so oppress them?

The answers to these questions are based on the understanding that there is an element of fate to Jewish history, while at the same time allowing for man’s free will to turn this fate into destiny. That is, the nation of Israel was given the land of Israel to fulfill its commitment to G-d and His Torah.21 Upon failing this covenant, the Jews were exiled in order to atone for the sins they committed in their land. The “fate” of exile was to
provide a place where they might reflect on their predicament and repent of their past misdeeds.22 Upon doing this, they would then be worthy of redemption in its proper time – i.e., the time that they accomplished the purpose of the exile.23

.
.
.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2011, 06:46:51 PM »
The Three oaths are no longer binding because the Nations of the world have violated their part of the bargain by overly oppressing the Jewish people during the exile. I have spoken about this with several Rabbis and all those I know agree that the nations are in violation of the oath and thus we have no obligation to keep it...



 The 3 oaths were never Halacha (that is Binding) to begin with. But certainly even if one takes the route that they were it clearly states that they are conditional and we clearly see that the nations violated them first, and over and over again. And just like other oaths with the nations if and when they violate them first, Israel is absolved from their part as well. (as we see with King Dawidh attacking Moav and Edom, even though they had an oath, since they violated Israel were free from their part. Same with Shimshon and the philistines. Avraham made an agreement, an oath with Avimelech (King of the Philestines). Since they then violated their part by attacking Israel, Shimshon and his generation and on fought back at them and were under no obligation to not fight back with them.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 06:52:08 PM »
IT IS NOT NEW THE FACT THAT ARABS DISTURB US WHEN WE WANT TO REBUILD THE LAND

The following is a quote from Nechemiah regarding the time when the Jews came back from Babel and planned on rebuilding the Bet ha Mikdash:

19 But when Sanballat the Horonite, and Tobiah the servant, the Ammonite, and Geshem the Arab, heard of it, they laughed at us with scorn, and despised us, and said, What is this thing that you are doing? Are you rebelling against the king? 20 Then I answered them, and said to them: The G-d of heaven will make us prosper, and we his servants will arise and build; but you have no portion, no right, no memorial, in Jerusalem. (Nechemiah 2:19)

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF: THE JEWS BUILD AND THE ARABS AND THEIR ALLIES MAKE FUN OF US AND RAGE AND WANT TO DESTROY WHAT THE JEWS HAVE DONE WITH THE HELP OF HASHEM

33 And it came to pass, that when Sanballat heard that we built the wall, he was angry, and greatly enraged, and he mocked the Jews. 34  And he spoke before his brothers and the army of Samaria, and said, What are these feeble Jews doing? Will they restore things? Will they sacrifice? Will they finish up in a day? Will they revive the stones out of the heaps of rubbish which are burned? 35 And Tobiah the Ammonite, who was next to him, said, Even a fox climbing up on what they build, shall break down their stone wall!  36 Hear, O our G-d; for we are despised; and turn their taunt upon their own head, and give them for a prey in the land of captivity; 37 And do not cover their iniquity, and do not let their sin be blotted out from before you; for they have provoked you to anger before the builders. 38  So we built the wall; and all the wall was joined together to half its height; for the people had a mind to work. 1 And it came to pass, that when Sanballat, and Tobiah, and the Arabs, and the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites, heard that the walls of Jerusalem were being repaired, and that the breaches were beginning to be closed, they were very angry. 2 And they all conspired together to come and to fight against Jerusalem, and to cause confusion in it. 3 And we prayed to our G-d, and set a watch against them day and night, because of them. (Nechemiah 3:33-4:3)

Listen well, Nechemiah set up a watch, an army to protect themselves from the enemies. Sure he prayed to Hashem first, but He also established an army to defend themselves.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 08:05:33 PM »
There were false messianic figures rising in Yemen and elsewhere who were getting bands of Jews together to miraculously fight off all the muslims (who completely outnumbered the Jews, had the politiccal power and much more weaponry) and march on a journey to israel and bring messiah when completely impractical.  When authorities would get wind of stuff like this the muslims would imprison and slaughter anyone involved.  He is responding in light of scenarios like this

Offline muman613

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 08:15:38 PM »
There were false messianic figures rising in Yemen and elsewhere who were getting bands of Jews together to miraculously fight off all the muslims (who completely outnumbered the Jews, had the politiccal power and much more weaponry) and march on a journey to israel and bring messiah when completely impractical.  When authorities would get wind of stuff like this the muslims would imprison and slaughter anyone involved.  He is responding in light of scenarios like this

I dont understand to you you are referring? Baba Sali was successful in getting the Jews of Morrocco to make aliyah. Are you referring to those who claim he did not support zionism?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 08:19:04 PM »
I dont understand to you you are referring? Baba Sali was successful in getting the Jews of Morrocco to make aliyah. Are you referring to those who claim he did not support zionism?



 No he is referring to the episode in Yemen. In those circumstances the RambaM was warning for practical reasons not to follow those false "Messiahs" who would only get Jews slaughtered when they were fighting impossible battles. It was also obvious that they were false Moshiahs who were proclaiming themselves to be Moshiah. Soo the letter is in response to such people who arose in Yemen.
  That has nothing to do with the situation today where with G-D's help, Jews have a good standing army, Atoms, Uzis and everything they need to run a country and make proper battle. The only thing lacking today is intelligence (how ironic but true).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2011, 08:29:20 PM »
No he is referring to the episode in Yemen. In those circumstances the RambaM was warning for practical reasons not to follow those false "Messiahs" who would only get Jews slaughtered when they were fighting impossible battles. It was also obvious that they were false Moshiahs who were proclaiming themselves to be Moshiah. Soo the letter is in response to such people who arose in Yemen.
  That has nothing to do with the situation today where with G-D's help, Jews have a good standing army, Atoms, Uzis and everything they need to run a country and make proper battle. The only thing lacking today is intelligence (how ironic but true).

Thanks...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2011, 09:15:57 PM »
And also by the way the letter of RambaM talks strongly against islam and refers to mohammed as the "madman". Let those who quote the letter of RambaM supposedly to fight against Israel and "Zionism" also quote to their arab friends the opinion of the RambaM to mo and islam. (And this was in the time where Jews and himself) lived under Muslim dominance and occupation, he could have been murdered for writing such a thing. And he still did, correctly soo.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline GunsAndRosesFan

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2011, 12:35:03 PM »
Most Israelis do NOT want a religious state.
Islam is a a cancer that threatens humanity with its complete intolerance, infinite jelousy and virulent odium.
Death to the cult of Satan! Death to Islam!

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 12:54:12 PM »
I dont understand to you you are referring? Baba Sali was successful in getting the Jews of Morrocco to make aliyah. Are you referring to those who claim he did not support zionism?



I'm referring to Rambam's letter to yemen.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Is it true the Babasali was agisnt zionisim?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2011, 01:01:49 PM »
Most Israelis do NOT want a religious state.
Most Israelis don't know what real Judaism is because they have been brainwashed within a warped little bubble by their parents, school, college, workplace, media, etc.