Cannabis Positively Linked To Schizophrenia Risk!

[muman613]

I think using it for purely medical reasons is different, using it for recreation is the same as using it for magical purposes in my opinion.

Sorcery often uses drugs as part of its practice.

So you're saying that only some types of sorcery are forbidden right? So shamanism is perfectly ok?

Some people take hallucinogens or other drugs in ritual settings in order to have a spiritual experience, as part of pagan practice. Do you think this is a sin or do you think it's kosher?

It is not Jewish to use substances used by non-Jewish religions. I would state that without having to consult a Rabbi. We are forbidden from engaging in practices which may look like avodah zarah. This is true.

But do you know that cannabis was used by idolatrous religions? I have not heard that...

But my concern is with only keeping it available to those who need it. I am sorry that some people are being given it without valid medical reasons but this also happens with perscription drugs too. I know how 'easy' it is to get these drugs because I need pain pills for my condition {Venus Insufficiency/Vasculitis} which causes great pain in my foot. I know that the pain doctors are trying to push more powerful pain pills on me {they have done so many times since I have gone there}.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You said that "studies have proven there is no harm in casual use" (of marijuana). What does that have to do with medical use?

[muman613]

You said that "studies have proven there is no harm in casual use" (of marijuana). What does that have to do with medical use?

I mean not 'excessive' use. When I use the word 'casual' I mean normal and not beyond the perscribed usage...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

"Prescribed" can mean absolutely anything as you know. There are doctors that deliberately prescribe enough (legal) prescription narcotics to cause addiction for instance.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

PS since you say that my studies cited are wrong and that science "proves" that marijuana is harmless, why not link me to some evidence of this?

[Rubystars]

It is not Jewish to use substances used by non-Jewish religions. I would state that without having to consult a Rabbi. We are forbidden from engaging in practices which may look like avodah zarah. This is true.

Recreational drug use mimics pagan rituals very closely. Someone taking LSD deliberately to contact spiritual realms and someone taking LSD for fun are opening up the same doors spiritually and physically.

But do you know that cannabis was used by idolatrous religions? I have not heard that...

Rastafarians are pretty notorious for it, and I'm sure they're not the only ones. However it doesn't even matter what specific drug is being used. Mind altering drugs as a whole serve the same purpose. Modern shamans sometimes even use synthetic drugs such as dextromethorphan or ketamine to produce their spiritual experiences in addition to more traditional substances like peyote and mushrooms.  

But my concern is with only keeping it available to those who need it. I am sorry that some people are being given it without valid medical reasons but this also happens with perscription drugs too. I know how 'easy' it is to get these drugs because I need pain pills for my condition {Venus Insufficiency/Vasculitis} which causes great pain in my foot. I know that the pain doctors are trying to push more powerful pain pills on me {they have done so many times since I have gone there}.

I think that people who are truly in need of a medicine should have it but the access needs to be better controlled and it can't be a slippery slope like it is now.

[muman613]

Recreational drug use mimics pagan rituals very closely. Someone taking LSD deliberately to contact spiritual realms and someone taking LSD for fun are opening up the same doors spiritually and physically.

Rastafarians are pretty notorious for it, and I'm sure they're not the only ones. However it doesn't even matter what specific drug is being used. Mind altering drugs as a whole serve the same purpose. Modern shamans sometimes even use synthetic drugs such as dextromethorphan or ketamine to produce their spiritual experiences in addition to more traditional substances like peyote and mushrooms.  

I think that people who are truly in need of a medicine should have it but the access needs to be better controlled and it can't be a slippery slope like it is now.

And wine is also used by pagan cerimonies... Wine is used for every Kiddush in Jewish tradition. Should we not use wine because wine is used by Christians for their rituals {the blood}?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/610626/jewish/Kiddush.htm

I support the medical use of Cannabis and it is because of my experience. I am sorry others do not share this view. But I don't condone sorcery, witchcraft, or consulting with the dead. To make this association is absurd in my opinion. I even know some drug addicts and none of them believe any witchcraft or sorcery.

[Rubystars]

And wine is also used by pagan cerimonies... Wine is used for every Kiddush in Jewish tradition. Should we not use wine because wine is used by Christians for their rituals {the blood}?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/610626/jewish/Kiddush.htm

Wine is pretty much explicitly permitted, wherease I don't think the same case can be made for marijuana. Even with wine aren't there pretty specific rules about which wines you are allowed to use? Alcohol is allowed by the Bible in moderation but I don't believe other mind altering substances are specifically allowed.

[muman613]

Wine is pretty much explicitly permitted, wherease I don't think the same case can be made for marijuana. Even with wine aren't there pretty specific rules about which wines you are allowed to use?

Yes, Kosher wine is important.... It must be prepared Mevushal...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/82688/jewish/Wine-and-Grape-Products.htm

Wine and Grape Products

Wine, more than any other food or drink, represents the holiness and separateness of the Jewish people. It is used for the sanctification of Shabbat and Yom Tov and at Jewish simchot. In the Beit Hamikdash wine was poured upon the altar together with the sacrifice.

However, since wine was and still is used in many forms of idolatrous worship, it has a unique status in Jewish law, which places extra restrictions on the making and handling of wine. This includes wine used for non-ceremonial purposes.

The production and handling of kosher wine must be done exclusively by Jews. Wine, grape juice, and all products containing wine or grape juice must remain solely in Jewish hands during the manufacturing process and also after the seal of the bottle has been opened. We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew after the seal of the bottle has been opened..

Yayin Mevushal: (Boiled Wine). Kosher wine (or grape juice) which has been boiled prior to the bottling process is called yayin mevushal. In the time of the Beit Hamikdash, boiling wine rendered it unfit to be brought upon the Altar.

Yayin mevushal is not considered "sacramental wine" and is therefore not included in the prohibition against being handled by non-Jews. This wine must, as with all kosher wines, bear the symbol of a reliable supervision organization and it should say yayin mevushal.

A wide variety of domestic and imported kosher wines under reliable supervision has been added to the sweet Concords traditionally associated with kosher wines. Many of these wines are yayin mevushal, as indicated on the label. Whether for Kiddush, dining, or a simchah, you are sure to find a fine kosher wine to suit your taste.
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[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I support the medical use of Cannabis and it is because of my experience. I am sorry others do not share this view. But I don't condone sorcery, witchcraft, or consulting with the dead. To make this association is absurd in my opinion. I even know some drug addicts and none of them believe any witchcraft or sorcery.

So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction?   Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.

[muman613]

So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction?   Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.

Dude, I don't know what your smoking but I don't see how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction?   Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.

Medical use is not drug addiction.  Why are you conflating two very different things?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?

Yeah, I don't think we're allowed to contact "spirits" of any kind (if they actually exist, or if a person is convinced they exist).

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He specifically said that he has known some drug addicts that are not idolatrous in any way, implying that it's not so bad. BTW Muman--when Christians use wine in "rituals" as you so claim it is a tiny sip. Nobody gets intoxicated and many churches actually use grape juice.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That sums it up.  Nuff said! 

I wouldn't want my daughter to get the message that pot smoking is good.

Medicinal marijuana use should be an issue between doctor and patient.
Not used as an excuse for legalizing the drug.

Absolutely!

If marijuana is proven to have medical uses, then doctors can get a license to administer it as a treatment , just like they prescribe any drugs.    People who promote medicinal qualities as a reason to legalize the drug are living in a dreamworld.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yeah, I don't think we're allowed to contact "spirits" of any kind (if they actually exist, or if a person is convinced they exist).

Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Absolutely!

If marijuana is proven to have medical uses, then doctors can get a license to administer it as a treatment , just like they prescribe any drugs.    People who promote medicinal qualities as a reason to legalize the drug are living in a dreamworld.

Yes, this is what I have been trying to say all along. In addition to the basic observation that drug use (even "soft drug" use) has harmful impacts on the user's life, there is powerful evidence that it can directly cause a severe and lifelong mental illness. Shouldn't people know about that? I don't doubt that THC has some analgesic properties that could be useful in the right settings but so does opium and we don't just allow everyone to smoke or shoot up opiates. If people want to use anyway, that is on their head and body, but it's rather silly to argue with the science that shows without any doubt that drug abuse is very harmful.

[muman613]

So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction?   Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.

I have stated Halacha that we are forbidden from doing things which are damaging to the body. I stated that when asked about prohibition on Smoking which has a positive link with cancer. Drug addiction is not healthy and no Rabbi will condone it. When Rubstars started stating that it should be forbidden due to supposed links to pagan idol worship and witchcraft I replied that it is not my experience that anyone who did these drugs believe in any occult practices. Just doing the substance does not make one an idol worshipper...

I never suggest that people should do drugs unless it is to alleviate a health problem which is relieved by use of the drug or substance. It becomes a question of whether the quality of life will improve through the use of the drug. All drugs are not good for a person including the pain pills which are needed by so many people in chronic pain. So then the question is which is worse, living with intense pain which incapacitates you or doing the pain drug and eventually becoming addicted and having related health problems? I have refused some of the heavier pain drugs just because I don't want to be addicted to them.

I don't know why 'Axl' always seems to have an issue with everything I say. What I say is based on my experience and based on what I have learned. I do not want currently illegal drugs to be made legal. I have stated this for several years here and it is surprising that everyone doesn't know my position. I do want more research done into whether it is dangerous or whether it is beneficial for medical uses. At this time I believe it does have medical uses...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.

Correct on the point of sorcery, practicioners get the death penalty.   However, I am not certain those things are real, just my personal opinion.   And still, whether it's real or not, it (witchcraft, etc) is definitely forbidden.    

And if you're wondering about my opinion, I believe that a big part of the crime of doing these things, even though I don't believe they have any power, is the whole idea that the person even thinks it has power to begin with and then acts on that.   It's a form of idol worship ascribing power to other forces, IMO.   And so the person is practicing idol worship - which is similarly something forbidden that some people think is real even though it has no power and is not real.   That's how I view these subjects anyway.  I'm sure others will differ.

[muman613]

Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.

http://e.yeshiva.org.il/ask/?srch=1&cat=&search_in=2&q=endor
Question:
In 1 Samuel 28, we have the story of King Saul visiting a woman in Endor.

Leviticus 19:31, 20:6 are prohibitions in turning to ghosts and familiar spirits.

Are these prohibitions in place to prevent people from being "suckered" by frauds who claim they can communicate to the "other side", or are the prohibitions in place because some people can communicate with ghosts and familiar spirits?

In the case of Saul speaking to Samuel, was it (a) actually Samuel (b) a demon masquerading as Samuel, or (c) the Woman in Endor putting on a good show?

Answer:

Maimonides in the Laws of Idol Worship (XI 16) is emphatic in teaching that the prohibitions do not forbid something real and useful- the magic and witchcraft are nothing more than "lies and deceit". The success of these magicians was based on a sense that they had of what was about to occur, based on a heightened imagination (Iggeret Teiman). Even so, this sense made their hunches more accurate than those of others but still they were very often wrong. The Radak in his commentary on Samuel I writes that there are those who feel that the magic "works" (athough they too agree that, unlike true prophecy, it is not reliable). One opinion is that the woman in Endor was about to perform her usual sleight of hand and was shocked when, by a miracle unrelated to what she was doing, Samuel actually appeared to Saul.

[muman613]

Correct on the point of sorcery, practicioners get the death penalty.   However, I am not certain those things are real, just my personal opinion.   And still, whether it's real or not, it (witchcraft, etc) is definitely forbidden.    

And if you're wondering about my opinion, I believe that a big part of the crime of doing these things, even though I don't believe they have any power, is the whole idea that the person even thinks it has power to begin with and then acts on that.   It's a form of idol worship ascribing power to other forces, IMO.   And so the person is practicing idol worship - which is similarly something forbidden that some people think is real even though it has no power and is not real.   That's how I view these subjects anyway.  I'm sure others will differ.

Rambam believes that Witchcraft is false...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?

In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).

[muman613]

I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?

In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).

Do you know anyone who is Schizophrenic? I knew someone who was born with it.... It has nothing to do with demons or spirits...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?

In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).

Schizophrenia IMO is a mental disease and has nothing to do with the occult.  Certainly nothing that can be verified.

Putting yourself at risk of schizophrenia is definitely wrong, if that is a significant risk.   There is no need to invoke witchcraft or other hardly related matters.   Either it's a health risk, or it isn't.  If it is, then one should not do it, just as they should not eat unhealthy food or do other unhealthy habits.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Schizophrenia almost always comes about in young adults. The number of children under 10 who are diagnosed with what might be called schizophrenia in an older person is essentially zero. Every paper I have read on it states that it comes about as a combination of heredity and environmental factors, in young adults or teens at the earliest. I have never heard of anybody "born with it"--maybe you mean he was born into a family where it ran in their genes and later developed it?