Israel > Save Israel
In Jerusalem, women are voiceless at a decidedly womanly event ????
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 12, 2012, 01:06:30 AM ---As I stated above the Halacha was determined from Shmuels statement:
"Shemuel said: The voice of a woman is nakedness ( kol b'isha `erva) as it says (Song of Songs 2:14) 'for your voice is sweet and your countenance comely.'" (Berachot 24a
What is the meaning of the word Kol? Is it not 'voice'? Is not the word for Singing Shirah?
I don't want to argue because I know the law concerns singing but also listening to a woman who is not your wife has been frowned on by the sages. See Pirkie Avot...
http://www.shechem.org/torah/avot.html
For commentary see : http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-5b.html
--- End quote ---
Muman, if you "know the law concerns singing" then why are you arguing that it doesn't? Why are you disputing that it concerns singing and suggesting that it extends to other things? We go by the Talmudic conclusion and the halacha derived from it which clearly labels a prohibition to hear a woman sing in person based on that statement from Shmuel. There is never any prohibition derived from that discussion on listening to a woman's voice in person. So how you "darshan" Shmuel's linguistics is really not a relevant matter. We are not permitted to make up our own prohibitions. Only the amoraim and saboraim intitiate the gemara, and this process was sealed. Are you trying to create a new Talmud?
What you are citing from Pirkei Avot is a different matter entirely. Either you are confused or.... Well, I think you are confused.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
To be clear, there is absolutely zero connection between a professional medical conference/presentation and the cited warning in Pirkei Avot.
These things have meaning, but not just any meaning you want to assign to it. The type of frivolous talk the sages frowned upon has nothing to do with an educational event produced by medical and halachic experts! Not to mention, in listening to a speaker, there is not even "talking" going on, it's just listening. The sages in Pirkei Avot are referring to conversation between people (and frivolous in nature). I think that really cannot be clearer.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 12, 2012, 01:16:47 AM ---Muman, if you "know the law concerns singing" then why are you arguing that it doesn't? Why are you disputing that it concerns singing and suggesting that it extends to other things? We go by the Talmudic conclusion and the halacha derived from it which clearly labels a prohibition to hear a woman sing in person based on that statement from Shmuel. There is never any prohibition on listening to a woman speak in person. So how you "darshan" Shmuel's linguistics is really not a relevant matter. We are not permitted to make up our own prohibitions. Only the amoraim and saboraim intitiate the gemara, and this process was sealed. Are you trying to create a new Talmud?
What you are citing from Pirkei Avot is a different matter entirely. Either you are confused or.... Well, I think you are confused.
--- End quote ---
No, you are missing the picture KWRBT...
There are those who keep the 'letter of the law' and there are those who are Chassids, who go beyond the letter of the law.
A Chassid attempts to understand the reasoning behind the Halacha. Indeed a Jew is meritorious for keeping the letter of the law, but the Chassid is attempting to be more than the ordinary. The Haredim, whom you have pointed out this conference was intended for, are keeping more than the letter of the law.
The basic reasoning for discouraging men listening to the voice of women is to prevent impure thoughts. I have been to 'COMDEX" computer shows when I was younger. I went to Las Vegas for these shows and inveritably I would end up listening to women who ended up going out for drinks with our group. Indeed a meeting of young doctors would present many opportunities for men and women to 'kibbitz' and 'schmooz' and go out for drinks, etc.
You are right that the 'law' is concerning listening to women. But you miss the mark when it comes to understanding the reason for the 'law'. As such you are meritorious, in my opinion, but there is more to just doing what the law says... Those who attempt to keep a stricter interpretation should be allowed to...
muman613:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 12, 2012, 01:21:51 AM ---To be clear, there is absolutely zero connection between a professional medical conference/presentation and the cited warning in Pirkei Avot.
These things have meaning, but not just any meaning you want to assign to it. The type of frivolous talk the sages frowned upon has nothing to do with an educational event produced by medical and halachic experts! Not to mention, in listening to a speaker, there is not even "talking" going on, it's just listening. The sages in Pirkei Avot are referring to conversation between people (and frivolous in nature). I think that really cannot be clearer.
--- End quote ---
Sure that is all they will talk about... But you are entitled to this opinion...
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 12, 2012, 01:23:19 AM ---Sure that is all they will talk about... But you are entitled to this opinion...
--- End quote ---
MUMAN! It's a medical presentation. With poskim and doctors speaking to an audience of frum Jews. It's a professional setting given to an audience, in public. What kind of sick thing are you implying here?
People are entitled to their own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts, sir.
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