Israel > Save Israel
In Jerusalem, women are voiceless at a decidedly womanly event ????
muman613:
--- Quote from: Chai on January 12, 2012, 01:43:51 AM ---Yea but its taken out of context. However if you have a real sexual addiction problem these "suggestions at best" may help you as in individual not as a community. It reflects poorly on the males self control within it. Its very insulting to males as well. Men are not animals, we were made in the image of G-d.
--- End quote ---
Explain the laws of Yichud then?
Chai:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 12, 2012, 01:47:11 AM ---You did not read that there are Rishonim who have forbidden listening to a womans speaking voice... But that is Ok... What else is new..
--- End quote ---
Rabbi Kahane thought its ok to listen to a woman's voice , that's good enough for me.
muman613:
Once again what I posted clearly says that there are some opinions that listening to a womans speaking voice is prohibited.
--- Quote ---Rabbeinu Eliyahu Mizrachi, in his commentary on Rashi on this Posuk (Ibid. s.v. L'Ish), questions how one is allowed to ask a woman about her husband when the Gemara in Berachos (24a) states, based upon a PoSuk in Shir HaShirim (2:14), that a woman's voice is considered Ervah, sexually enticing, implying that it is improper for a man to listen to a woman speak. He explains that indeed this statement in Rashi (Ibid.) that one should ask a woman about her husband's welfare is incorrect, and appears due to a textual error. The fact that the Midrash (Ibid.) states clearly that the Malachim asked Soroh about Avraham does not imply anything; this was permitted specifically because they were angels, and were thus not subject to human desires and urges. An ordinary man, however, should not listen to a woman speak, according to this view.
--- End quote ---
Let us not argue about this any longer...
We will see what reasons come out from the conference... I have said all along I am just speculating based on my understanding...
muman613:
--- Quote from: Chai on January 12, 2012, 01:49:46 AM ---Rabbi Kahane thought its ok to listen to a woman's voice , that's good enough for me.
--- End quote ---
Not many Jews keep Rabbi Kahanes Oral laws...
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 12, 2012, 01:42:06 AM ---I will state again my opinion in case you have forgotten:
1) I understand and defend the laws of Kol Isha
2) I also understand the Pikei Avot which forbids 'idle talk' with women, even your wife.
3) I understand the prohibitions which prevent a man from looking lustfully at a woman
4) I understand the reason for separation of the sexes because when boys and girls mix there will be flirting {no matter how frum a person is}.
--- End quote ---
The problem is when none of these have any relation to the Puah conference which is what this thread is about.
The question is: Should women professionals give talks to the audience at the event, or should only male doctors present to the audience?
1. is not related and I NEVER DISPUTED THE LAWS OF KOL ISHA.
2. is not related because no one is ever in control of what individuals do in their spare time or what kind of stupid sinning they get themselves caught up in. The seating is SEPARATE seating by gender, so this issue is not even tangentially related. Puah is going out of its way to make sure this is a cultural environment that haredim are used to so that they can benefit from the conference.
3. is not related because men are always forbidden to lust over women, and no one can control what individual men do, and women cannot be hidden in cardboard boxes to prevent men from sinning. A man could just as easily lust over a woman in the crowd as much as a woman giving a talk, so this clearly has no relevance to the question of should women professionals/experts give a speech or not. You could say women should not do anything in society or anything outside of the kitchen because a man might lust over her, but that is truly a warped way of thinking. Men need to get themselves under control and do what God says.
4. I NEVER DISPUTED SEPARATION OF SEXES I don't think anyone here did. Nonetheless, there is no "mixing of boys and girls" at the Puah conference, so that is again something not related to the question at hand.
So I hope that clarifies, you were disputing a lot of straw men but very few things I actually said or believe. And very few things related to the actual subject matter of this thread.
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