The Liberty "Incident"

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Guys, I never vote in my own polls but I'm gonna say yes. Look at it. We have a really obscure alleged event that NOBODY ever has any data or resources on except obvious anti-Semitic conspiracists and neo-Nazis. Get real.

Why should I assume it ever happened in the first place? How difficult would it be for the Egyptian Muslim Nazis to paint up a dilapidated hulk in Navy colors and parade it around and pay some Nazi dreck in the services to feed the morons of the world a rooster-and-bull story (or, considering the orientation of most Nazis, a rooster-and-the plural of something spelled a lot like "bull" story)? LBJ, yimach schmo vezichro, being the Nazi that he was, would have gladly played along or at least played stupid about it.

The Protocols was another grand hoax that was played up to the hilt by world governments and the world's most elite industrialists. Who says there wasn't another Henry Ford in the '60s who ponied up some of his billions to really sell this sham and make it look convincing?

Believing that "Liberty happened, but it was an accident" is already conceding to the enemy what it wants: a universal belief that Israel did something wrong. Thinking that Liberty was a real event, even if one doesn't believe Israel harmed it intentionally, is tantamount to arguing "yeah a lot of Israeli Muslim Nazis were killed in 1948, but by accident" or "Israel did bomb the Cana hospital in south Lebanon last July, by accident". They're both lies plain and simple and none of the above happened.

Chaimfan

[Allen-T]

Guys, I never vote in my own polls but I'm gonna say yes. Look at it. We have a really obscure alleged event that NOBODY ever has any data or resources on except obvious anti-Semitic conspiracists and neo-Nazis. Get real.

Why should I assume it ever happened in the first place? How difficult would it be for the Egyptian Muslim Nazis to paint up a dilapidated hulk in Navy colors and parade it around and pay some Nazi dreck in the services to feed the morons of the world a rooster-and-bull story (or, considering the orientation of most Nazis, a rooster-and-the plural of something spelled a lot like "bull" story)? LBJ, yimach schmo vezichro, being the Nazi that he was, would have gladly played along or at least played stupid about it.

The Protocols was another grand hoax that was played up to the hilt by world governments and the world's most elite industrialists. Who says there wasn't another Henry Ford in the '60s who ponied up some of his billions to really sell this sham and make it look convincing?

Believing that "Liberty happened, but it was an accident" is already conceding to the enemy what it wants: a universal belief that Israel did something wrong. Thinking that Liberty was a real event, even if one doesn't believe Israel harmed it intentionally, is tantamount to arguing "yeah a lot of Israeli Muslim Nazis were killed in 1948, but by accident" or "Israel did bomb the Cana hospital in south Lebanon last July, by accident". They're both lies plain and simple and none of the above happened.

Chaimfan

I don't know what this is, but when I was arguing with those crazy liberals in Union Square last Saturday they were screaming about it alot  

[Mishmaat]

Guys, I never vote in my own polls but I'm gonna say yes. Look at it. We have a really obscure alleged event that NOBODY ever has any data or resources on except obvious anti-Semitic conspiracists and neo-Nazis. Get real.

Why should I assume it ever happened in the first place? How difficult would it be for the Egyptian Muslim Nazis to paint up a dilapidated hulk in Navy colors and parade it around and pay some Nazi dreck in the services to feed the morons of the world a rooster-and-bull story (or, considering the orientation of most Nazis, a rooster-and-the plural of something spelled a lot like "bull" story)? LBJ, yimach schmo vezichro, being the Nazi that he was, would have gladly played along or at least played stupid about it.

The Protocols was another grand hoax that was played up to the hilt by world governments and the world's most elite industrialists. Who says there wasn't another Henry Ford in the '60s who ponied up some of his billions to really sell this sham and make it look convincing?

Believing that "Liberty happened, but it was an accident" is already conceding to the enemy what it wants: a universal belief that Israel did something wrong. Thinking that Liberty was a real event, even if one doesn't believe Israel harmed it intentionally, is tantamount to arguing "yeah a lot of Israeli Muslim Nazis were killed in 1948, but by accident" or "Israel did bomb the Cana hospital in south Lebanon last July, by accident". They're both lies plain and simple and none of the above happened.

Chaimfan

C.F.,

The way you post such erudite messages in such a short time frame is very impressive. I was born in the 80's so who am I to weigh in on this? I personally don't believe it's a hoax. Nor do I see how I'm playing into the hands of the enemy. The enemy, to me, is anyone who claims that this was deliberate while ignoring real deliberate incidents such as the USS Cole.

And Allen-T, you can never rationalize with New York liberals. They're completely lost.

[kahaneloyalist]

Here in super brief is what happened

During the Six-Day War, a US navy ship, the S. S. Liberty is in the Gulf of Aquba. Israeli forces severely damage the ship with first a air attack and later a torpedo attack. The torpedo attack is only launched after the Liberty fired upon the Torpedo boats. After the first round of torpedoes are fired, the Israeli ships identified the Liberty as American and offer to assist the crew of the Liberty, this offer is refused. The ship does not sink but is inoperable for months, 34 crewmen are killed and approximately 174 others are injured. Israel maintains they mistook the Liberty for the Egyptian ship El Quseir.

The Liberty is at the time the most advanced spy ship in the US navy. Previous to the war the American government had promised the Israelis no US ships were in any of the waters surrounding the combat zone. The US government has never explained why their best spy ship is in a conflict zone after promising the Israelis there were no American ships in the area. John Loftus in his book "The War Against the Jews" brings evidence from declassified files of the NSA that the US government was feeding information to the Egyptians during the war from the US Liberty. Not necessarily to destroy Israel, but to prevent a overly strong Jewish victory, following the Arabist policy set by the King-Crane report.

While the US Liberty was probably flying a flag it is unlikely the Israeli pilots or Navy men ever saw it, as their attacks were launched from significant distances, and after the torpedo attacks help is offered, radio transmission confirm the torpedo boats were initially confused about the identity of the ship.

It is extremely unlikely that Israel would intentionally attack the Liberty as this would have alienated their main "Ally"(with such allies who needs enemies).

[Ehud]

It was a real event Chaimfan.  I have never heard of this before but I just read the wikipedia article and it seems that it was just a very unfortunate accident.  The people who claim that it was a deliberate attack don't have a single shred of evidence that it was, and there is tons of evidence to prove that it was unintentional.  Anyone who claims that it was a deliberate attack is simply an anti-Semite.  There is still no coherent theory on why it would be a deliberate attack.  All of the communications were recorded and the Israelis didn't know that it wasn't an Egyptian ship, even after the attack.

Israel warned the U.S. that if any ship was seen on its coast it would be attacked.  Israel also requested that any U.S. ship that was there be identified or taken out and the U.S. didn't say anything about the ship being there.  The Israelis had every reason to believe that there were no American ships there and that it would be safe to attack any ship found in the area.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't know what this is, but when I was arguing with those crazy liberals in Union Square last Saturday they were screaming about it alot  

That only goes to prove my point. Only mental cases have ever heard of this and care about it. You'd think that if it were a real footnote you'd at some point hear legitimate (or at least not overtly Nazi!) professors and historians bring it up in passing.

I stand by my claim that this is a hoax.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Here in super brief is what happened

During the Six-Day War, a US navy ship, the S. S. Liberty is in the Gulf of Aquba. Israeli forces severely damage the ship with first a air attack and later a torpedo attack. The torpedo attack is only launched after the Liberty fired upon the Torpedo boats. After the first round of torpedoes are fired, the Israeli ships identified the Liberty as American and offer to assist the crew of the Liberty, this offer is refused. The ship does not sink but is inoperable for months, 34 crewmen are killed and approximately 174 others are injured. Israel maintains they mistook the Liberty for the Egyptian ship El Quseir.

The Liberty is at the time the most advanced spy ship in the US navy. Previous to the war the American government had promised the Israelis no US ships were in any of the waters surrounding the combat zone. The US government has never explained why their best spy ship is in a conflict zone after promising the Israelis there were no American ships in the area. John Loftus in his book "The War Against the Jews" brings evidence from declassified files of the NSA that the US government was feeding information to the Egyptians during the war from the US Liberty. Not necessarily to destroy Israel, but to prevent a overly strong Jewish victory, following the Arabist policy set by the King-Crane report.

While the US Liberty was probably flying a flag it is unlikely the Israeli pilots or Navy men ever saw it, as their attacks were launched from significant distances, and after the torpedo attacks help is offered, radio transmission confirm the torpedo boats were initially confused about the identity of the ship.

It is extremely unlikely that Israel would intentionally attack the Liberty as this would have alienated their main "Ally"(with such allies who needs enemies).

I certainly believe that the Liberty, if it existed, was up to no good in the Gulf. I, of course, wouldn't blame the IAF if it attacked under those circumstances--but I still see no evidence that this was authentically documented at the time.

Do you have a source for this?

Not trying to be a jerk, just eternally a skeptic.
Chaimfan

[Ehud]

How about the official investigations conducted by the Israeli and U.S. governments?  Those and tons of other information have been declassified, I'm sure you could read it if you really knew where to find it.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The Israeli government is loaded with self-haters who couldn't (or wouldn't) debunk a lie if it directly accused them of child molestation. How much energy does the Israeli government put into honoring the fictitious "history" of the Fakestinian Race, after all?

The U.S. government is run by anti-Semites, who are always going to do everything they can, even if more subtly than the Euronazis would, to make tiny, beleaguered Israel look bad.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Regarding the "Liberty attack incident", Chaimfan writes:

"I still see no evidence that this was authentically documented at the time.
Do you have a source for this?
Not trying to be a jerk, just eternally a skeptic.
Chaimfan'"
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Well, Forum members, it most definitely happened.

Unlike the vast majority of those here insistent that they know all of the facts about it being a hoax, never happened, couldn't have happened, etc... I can assure you it is a factual documented event because I was alive during that time and vividly remember the event.

Documented proof of the attack can be found worldwide in newspaper reporting as well as recordings of TV newscasts of that week.

At the time, the U.S. Gov't hushed up the situation and swept it under the carpet, as if it never happend, hoping to avoid having to account for it.

And THAT, my friends, is precisely the reason that the event has been allowed to simmer and draw Jew-Haters as well as nutcases to invent the reasons it took place.

The U.S. Government's behavior seemed one of extreme shame at its own conduct, embarrassment at having been attacked as an enemy combatant ship, or both and maybe a lot more.

Major lesson here:  "cover-ups" always cause more problems over time than simply "facing up to facts and admitting them".

Some of the posts and replies to them here regarding this incident of the Liberty are pure and simple "knee-jerk reactions" -- Israel perfect and good..incapable of committing such an act whether an accident or not.

Yet, many JTF followers here have no aversion to denouncing Rabin's machine gun murder of a boat load of Jewish refugees sailing into Haifa bay; a heinous act done by Bolsheviks in hopes of murdering Menachem Begin and preventing any Jewish Nationalism in Eretz Yisrael.

Others have no aversions to incriminating the actions of Peres, Beilin, Clintons, Bush, etc...

So, I'm curious as to when the subject of one single event in a huge 1967 War is broached, knee-jerk reactions from every corner appear; all of them "knowing that it was a hoax", or insisting that Israel and its government were (and are?) incapable of such things, and also insisting that the U.S. was such a "friend and ally" of Israel that it also was (and is?) incapable of any treachery or betrayal towards its "friends"!

Everyone seems to have "all the answers" without ever asking any of the questions.

Nor do the responses here document their stated "facts".

As far as a "recording" which did not appear until almost 40 years after the fact, all I can say is that I listen to "recorded news stories" on NPR & elsewhere all the time, and they are not only false propaganda, but literally manufactured in high-tech recording studios, using an array of pre-recorded sound effects to simulate "being there" and also to create the proper sympathetic moods in listeners to their propaganda.

Now...does everyone here want to ban me for writing the truth?

If so, go ahead and do it.

[Ehud]

What about the testimony of members of Israel's military establishment and the pilots themselves?  What about the recorded conversations between Israeli pilots and other parts of the military where they were speaking about the event as it happened?  Why would Israelis make up that they bombed a U.S. ship?  Why would the Israeli government admit to making that deadly mistake, surely you don't think that members of the Israeli political establishment are so suicidal that they would admit to an attack for no reason at all?