Jesus and Judaism

[Boeregeneraal]

Shalom All

Can someone PLEASe explain to me a bit about, why Jewish people don't believe that Jesus is the messiah?

Thank's in advance

[Yisrael]

http://jewsforjudaism.com/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Boere,

I know you are a good guy, and that you don't mean to divide, but these kinds of topics tend to cause quarrels when publicly posted.

The answer as I understand it is that Jews do not believe that G-d can have three different character or personality facets/aspects. They believe he is indivisible. However, in the future, it would be best to ask a senior member questions like this in private message form. Just a heads-up.

G-d bless,
Chaimfan

[Yisrael]

That's why I just posted a link to where you can get info.

[kahaneloyalist]

Shalom All

Can someone PLEASe explain to me a bit about, why Jewish people don't believe that Jesus is the messiah?

Thank's in advance

Read Issac Troiki's "Faith Strengthened" and Aryeh Kaplan's "The Real Messiah?" for a complete refutation to Christian claims about Jesus and Christianity as a whole.

But in short here is why Jews dont believe Yeshu to be Mashiach.

1. Only a male line descendant of David HaMelech through his son Shlomo HaMelech can be the Mashiach, Yeshu was not a male-line descendant of David through Shlomo.

2. Mashiach must fufill specific tasks, for a full listing of these taks; see Rambam Hilchot Melachim the final two Perakim. Yeshu fufilled none of these tasks, hence he cant be Mashiach.

[Boeregeneraal]

I am sorry to have posted this. I was not aware that this is a very sensitive topic. Please feel free to delete this topic.

I've always jeen puzzled, as to how the Jewish people would know who the Messiah would be.

Sorry all, really not my intent

PLEASE forgive

[newman]

Here's another link for your study.........   it's very good



 http://www.jdstone.org/cr/index.html

[Allen-T]

Also The Mashiach can't die.

What does Daniel 9:26 mean? Cut off?

[newman]

Also The Mashiach can't die.

What does Daniel 9:26 mean? Cut off?

....cicumcision perhaps?

[kahaneloyalist]

I am sorry to have posted this. I was not aware that this is a very sensitive topic. Please feel free to delete this topic.

I've always jeen puzzled, as to how the Jewish people would know who the Messiah would be.

Sorry all, really not my intent

PLEASE forgive

We will know who he is if he is of the correct line and he fufills specific tasks, the Mashiach is a mortal man like any other, he is a King of the Jewish people and will gather us in from the exile, fight the wars of Hashem, and rebuild the Beit HaMikdash.

[Lubab]

Also The Mashiach can't die.

For your info, in Judaism Moshiach can die. (see link below for the relevant sources) That was not the real reason the Rabbis rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

http://www.moshiachfacts.com/index.php?page=qaforum&chapter=3&section=2

First part of Essay Reprinted Here:

Can Moshiach be Resurrected?
 We begin our inquiry into the topic with the most legitimate part of Torah Judaism one offer: the Talmud. In the following fascinating Aggadic piece, several great sages present their opinions as to whom the Moshiach would be, were he to arrive in their time.  We now quote the great sage Rav, whose opinion is most relevant to our discussion.

Rav states:

"If Moshiach will come from the living, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh (i.e.Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi), if he comes from the dead, it will be Daniel (the Prophet)..."

Sanhedrin 98:B

Shocking as it may be for many, Rav seems to include those who have already died (such as Daniel the prophet), as legitimate Messianic candidates. Even more shockingly, no other sage in the Talmud seems to even take issue with it.

Rashi's first interpretation (NOTE: It is well known that Rashi's first interpretation is his favored interpretation) of this quote provides further clarification of this point. Rashi restates Rav's position as follows:

"This means, that if Moshiach were to come from those who are living now, it will be Rabeinu HaKadosh…but if (Moshiach) is to come from those who have died already, it will be 'Daniel Ish Chamudos'..."

Rashi-"Ee Min Chaya, Hu Kegon-Rabainu HaKadosh" 98:B

Considering the current climate among today's Jewry towards the notion of a  'Resurrected Redeemer', one might expect to find a plethora of Talmudic commentaries questioning and analyzing how such an 'untraditional' suggestion could be made. Yet, we find no such uproar. In fact, the opposite is the case; not even a hint of disapproval or surprise can be found from amongst the (at least twenty) major commentaries that discuss this page of Talmud.

The silence of these commentaries speaks volumes. The absence of any objection made to Rav's statement or Rashi's interpretation of it, means that among the true Torah sages of the Talmud, the notion that Moshiach could come from the dead was always accepted and uncontested.  This concept was far from the source of indignation and imprecation it has become in our recent history.

If one source is not enough, other explicit references to the legitimacy of a  'Resurrected Redeemer' are not difficult to come by.  In his work entitled, "Yeshuas Meshicho," Torah giant Rav Don Issac Abarbanel writes as follows:

"Do not be amazed by the fact that that Moshiach can be one of those who will rise in Techiya (resurrection), because this possibility was already considered by our sages in Gemara Sanhedrin." (Iyun Sheni, Perek Alef)

  In the encyclopedic work of the Sedei Chemed, entitled "Pe'as Sadeh" we find a similar theme.  This highly authoritative work contains the following quote:

  "There are two ways the redemption may materialize…if the Jews posses great merit, the advent of Moshiach will be of the miraculous and spiritual order, as it is written in Daniel- 'Moshiach will arrive atop a heavenly cloud'…concerning this possible manner of Moshiach's coming the Gemara states 'if he comes from the dead it will be Daniel Ish Chamudos.'"

Peas Sadeh-Maareches Alef, Os Ayin

Further support for this concept can be found in the Rambam.  This is notable, because the Rambam is one of the few Torah sages who compiled comprehensive halachic qualifications Moshiach must fulfill. He, therefore, is a distinctive authority to be used in determining what disqualifies a messianic candidate.  He writes as follows:

 "And if he (the potential Moshiach) has not succeeded until this point (compelling all the Jewish people to follow Torah ways, and fighting the wars of Hashem) or is killed, it is assured that this is not the one (Moshiach) about whom the Torah has promised..."

Mishna Torah-Hilchos Melachim/Laws of Kings 11:4 

We now turn our focus to the Rambam's choice of words "...or is killed...".  The Rambam is well known for his precise wording in the Mishne Torah. Many decisions, which drastically affect lives, are made, based on a word or even a letter of the Rambam. Why is this important to us? Because if it is true, as many critics claim, that Moshiach can only come from the ranks of the living, the wording of this Rambam is inexplicable. Allow me to explain. 

If simply dying, in any way, disqualifies a potential Moshiach, then why didn't the Rambam simply say: "If Moshiach dies"-then he cannot be Moshiach?  This would have disqualified all Messianic candidates regardless of how they died.  Apparently, to the Rambam things are not quite so simple.

In spite of the fact that the vast majority of Jewish history's righteous sages died natural deaths, the Rambam chooses a highly limiting word-"killed" as the invalidating criterion".  The clear implication here is that only if a potential Moshiach is killed (such as Bar Kochba who lost his life in combat) is he disqualified, but should such an individual die a natural death-he remains a valid Messianic candidate. There is no other coherent way to understand this Rambam.(NOTE: Obviously, all the other criteria of the Rambam must be fulfilled as well in order to remain a Messianic candidate.  Questions regarding how these other criteria are being fulfilled by the Rebbe will be dealt with in a later chapter:  See "The Rebbe and the Rambam") 

  From all the Torah sources quoted above, the following conclusion becomes blatantly obvious:

While the concept of 'Moshiach from the dead' may be foreign in the eyes of a great deal of today's Jewry, it is not so in the eyes of the Torah.   And for a Jew, the Torah view is the only one that need be consulted.  We must place our trust in the Torah, not emotional qualms, to guide us on this topic, just as we do with every other aspect of our lives.

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[MasterWolf1]

Well I am Catholic and by you asking like this is not really offending me, in fact it is your way to get information.  Well I guess for Catholics being that its one of the sections of Christianity we also believe in the divine trinity.  Of the father, son and the holy spirit.  It is mostly a faith belief then anything else.  Christians believe that Jesus came to Earth as the son of God to share the wisdom and beauty of God's teaching.  Christians also believe one day the Son of God will return some day.   Its all a matter of differnt faith and belief. 

[ftf]

I'd like to suggest that this discussion be taken privately, so as not to cause devision, Boeregeneraal, if you are Christian and are doubting your faith, feel free to ask about any detail of it, that does include refutations for any Jewish argument for Jesus' lack of messiahship, I can tear all of the ones I have ever seen to pieces, I refrain from doing so publically on this forum as it is against the rules to do anything that may cause a Jew to become a Christan or follow any other faith on this forum. If anyone wishes to talk to me in private about this feel free to pm me, understand that I will not post in this topic again, so do not attempt to respond to me here.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Can someone PLEASe explain to me a bit about, why Jewish people don't believe that Jesus is the messiah?

Israel and Judah Must Get House in Order Before King Messiah Arrives

[David Ben-Ariel]

Also The Mashiach can't die.

So Menachem Schneerson isn't the Mashiach after all?  I've actually read from Jewish sources that Mashiach is to die, even though I'm Christian and perceive that the Pierced One is Mashiach, soon to be revealed the second time (as Joseph's identity was made known the second appearance before his brethren). Time will tell all, eh?

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

How about this,

As long as your religion teaches you to do good and just things, you are on the right path, whatever the name of the path.

If we all have separate, but similar paths that lead us to one destination, we will meet there at the end of the road and will be furnished with truth given to us by G-d.

And at the end of the path, we will have no arguments as to recognition of the Messiah, simply because his identity will be indisputable and his signs obvious.

We will no longer be divided, but united, since His instructions will be clear and definitive.

[Dominater96]

I was wondering this. Do christains believe Jesus to be Mashiach ben Yosef? I would think that they think that because he was killed. Also if they do believe that, the mashiach ben david cannot be the same as the mashicach ben yosef? any1 who knows about christianity, and judaism can answer? and this is off topic, but what is the differance between a Catholic, and Protestant? sorry if this seems like a dumb question........!!!

[kahaneloyalist]

The Christians believe him to be Mashiach ben David.

And David, there is no pierced one, thats a intentional mistranslation the church fathers slipped in to tehillim to try to bolster their comically weak case.

[jsullivan]

This always ends up being a divisive topic, so I'm locking the thread.