in the world to come

[Dr. Dan]

They say that there will be the resurrection of the dead.  Can more children be born into the world to come?  What is said about this?

[mord]

They say that there will be the resurrection of the dead.  Can more children be born into the world to come?  What is said about this?

I think that would happen in the end times in the Gemara[Talmud] the place where baby souls are stored before they are put into life will have to empty. Here this explains it better.         http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/178/Q3/   






Dear Ed,

The "guff" is a term the Talmud uses to refer to the repository of all unborn souls. Literally, the word "guff" means "body."

The Talmud says, "The Son of David (Mashiach) will not arrive until there's no more 'soul' in the 'body.' " This means that there are a certain number of souls in heaven waiting to be born. Until they are born, they wait in a heavenly repository called "the body." The Mashiach won't arrive until every single one of these souls has been born into the physical world.

This teaches that each person is important and has a unique role which only he, with his unique soul, can fulfill. Even a newborn baby brings the Mashiach closer simply by being born.

[muman613]

Dan is referring to Techias HaMatim, the Resurrection of the dead. This is one of the 13 core principles of Judaism as enumerated by the RAMBAM.

http://revach.net/lists/article.php?id=56

THE RAMBAM'S THIRTEEN PRINCIPLES
OF JEWISH FAITH

1. Hashem The Creator -  I believe with complete faith that Hashem is the Creator and Ruler of all things. He alone has made, does make, and will make all things.

2.  Unity -  I believe with complete faith that Hashem is One. There is no unity that is in any way like His. He alone is our Hashem He was, He is, and He will be.

3. Beyond Physicality - I believe with complete faith that Hashem does not have a body. physical concepts do not apply to Him. There is nothing whatsoever that resembles Him at all.

4. Kadmon - I believe with complete faith that Hashem is first and last.

5. Zulaso - I believe with complete faith that it is only proper to pray to Hashem. One may not pray to anyone or anything else.

6. Nevi'im -  I believe with complete faith that all the words of the prophets are true.

7. Moshe Rabbeinu - I believe with complete faith that the prophecy of Moshe a'h is absolutely true. He was the chief of all prophets, both before and after Him.

8. Toras Emes - I believe with complete faith that the entire Torah that we now have is that which was given to Moshe.

9. One Torah - I believe with complete faith that this Torah will not be changed, and that there will never be another given by Hashem.

10. All Knowing - I believe with complete faith that Hashem knows all of man's deeds and thoughts. It is thus written (Tehillim 33:15), "He has molded every heart together, He understands what each one does."

11.  Reward & Punishment -  I believe with complete faith that Hashem rewards those who keep His commandments, and punishes those who transgress His commandments.

12. Moshiach - I believe with complete faith in the coming of Moshiach. Even though he is delayed, still I will await His coming every day.

13. Techias HaMeisim - I believe with complete faith that the dead will be brought back to life when Hashem wills it to happen.

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48929597.html

Based on a series of lectures by Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg, of blessed memory.

The resurrection of the dead is a basic principle of the Torah of Moses. Anyone who does not believe it has no connection with the Jewish Nation. But [resurrection] is only for the righteous, as it states in Bereishis Rabbah: "Rain is for both the righteous and the wicked but resurrection is for the righteous alone." For how can the wicked be brought back to life when even during their lives they are considered dead? But the righteous, even when they die, are considered alive.
-- Maimonides, 13 Principles of Faith

* * *

WHY RESURRECTION?

It would be easy to understand if this final Principle, the last of the four Principles dealing with reward and punishment, had been belief in the World to Come. After all, how can one believe in absolute justice without such a conviction? Where is there true reward and punishment in a world where so many innocent and righteous suffer while so many evil people seem to enjoy the good life? If this world is all there is, how can a system of reward and punishment be perceived to exist? If, however, this world is not an end in itself, then reward and punishment may be understood to be found in an afterlife. There, the consequences of one's actions in this world will be realized.
.
.
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THE RESURRECTION OF THE PHYSICAL

The Rambam says there will be no eating, drinking or sleeping in the World to Come (Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Laws of Repentance 8:2). This statement was the focal point of a dispute between Maimonides and Nachmonides, and has been deeply misunderstood. In the World to Come, the body will not be resurrected and then die. Maimonides says that after resurrection, the body will cease to be a body as we know it (ibid.). This cessation implies that the body will instead become so holy that it will become spiritual, transcending the physical limitations imposed upon it in this earthly world. Nevertheless, it will retain its sense of self-existence, its sense of being.

Nachmonides disagrees with Maimonides' assertion that the resurrected body will eventually cease to exist in a physical sense. He believes that the body will always have its physical limitations, which are necessary for it to be aware of itself.

In this state of spirituality, in knowing the Creator, man will reach a level of ecstasy beyond our mortal grasp. As the prophet (Isaiah 64:3; see Brachot 34b) describes it, "no eye has ever seen [it]." The World to Come is inconceivable; the prophet himself cannot describe it. It is beyond the conception of a created human being to comprehend what it means to be connected to the Source of all existence.

The foolishness is evident when people say: "What could be more boring than Heaven!" Of course, they are imagining Heaven in terms of the sensual pleasures of this world. The reason that sensual pleasures in excess do not satisfy, and may even become disgusting, is that they aren't true pleasures in ultimate terms. For the most part, they serve as an escape from the pain and effort of striving for real pleasure.

The feeling of total "being," on the other hand, the sense of accomplishment, of reaching one's ultimate goals, is true pleasure which can be grasped even in this world. The joy of a child whose parents admire the picture he has drawn, the thrill of solving a difficult problem, or the glee on the face of a youngster who has brought home a perfect report card - all are true but still only partial experiences of the ultimate pleasure.

This ultimate experience of being connected with actual, absolute Existence requires the whole being, the body as well as the soul. Without resurrection, without man's knowing that he, as he now perceives himself, will experience this pleasure, the idea of the World to Come is irrelevant. People are not impressed with their soul existing in the World to Come. They can't relate to such an existence because they feel that their soul alone is just not their whole self.

The Principle of resurrection implies that the body is not merely an object but a subject. The body is part of the person himself. Hence the obligations to bury and honor a dead body. Conversely, Judaism forbids cremation and the use of corpses for theoretical research, since both treat the human body as an object

[Dr. Dan]

But if the dead come back to life, will more be been into it?  What if two soulmates want to have children?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

But if the dead come back to life, will more be been into it?  What if two soulmates want to have children?

 I remember this Rav Shlitta
http://torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Avraham_Benhaim/index.html

 speaking about it in one of the lectures. He says their still will be child bearing.

 - Anyway besides all of this, I believe (and its the approach of Rav Bar Hayim Shlitta) that all of these things to come shouldn't be the main focus for us right now. The main focus is and should be what we need to be doing. Also not to have the obsession with Moshiah as well (as the Gemarah says as well that Moshiah will come faster the more veryone forgets about him and not focus on these things - I believe because then we would actually do and bring it upon instead of theorizing.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

We know from the book of Ezekiel that the Messiah himself will have children and pass on an inheritance.  However, I don't know if this is talking forever or just during the time that he's here prior to the resurrection of the dead/day of judgment.  If the universe eventually returns to a Gan Eden status, it is possible that people will still be able to have children because before the fall of man, G-d still told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.

 Prior. The Messiah is a regular (okay extraordinary) but never the less regular (not some magician as some imagine) person who is or will be the "anointed" one. Soo yes he can and will live and he can die as well. The resurrection and this subject are different things entirely. BOTH will happen in its time (or I will hasten it), but these are distinct concepts and their is a misconception with cramming all of these together.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The Days of the Messiah    

Part One:  Reality won’t be radically altered when the Messiah arrives.  The Rambam describes the big difference between today and the days of Messiah - Jewish independence.  If the Jewish people choose to live outside Eress Yisrael, we’re not worthy of the Messiah.  A critique of religious Zionists who take a pollyanish view of current events.   


Part Two:  Here’s proof that the Messiah doesn’t have to revive the dead.  He doesn’t have to perform miracles.  And if you think otherwise, you’re a fool.  So says the Rambam.  However, there is a contradiction in the Rambam. 

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/43-philosophy/417-the-days-of-the-messiah

[muman613]

One of the Thirteen Principles of Faith , which I reproduced in my original response, clearly says that the belief that the Dead will be Resurrected is a central belief of Judaism, and denying it is denying the Torah just as denying that Moshiach will come is considered apikorsis.

It is interesting that any time Moshiach is mention Tag will chime in with how Moshiach doesnt have to do miracles, yet nobody is saying that he has to. It is clear from the laws of Moshiach, according to Rambam, that this is the case. So why the need to repeat it over and over again? Nobody is claiming that he will have to do miracles.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

One of the Thirteen Principles of Faith , which I reproduced in my original response, clearly says that the belief that the Dead will be Resurrected is a central belief of Judaism, and denying it is denying the Torah just as denying that Moshiach will come is considered apikorsis.

It is interesting that any time Moshiach is mention Tag will chime in with how Moshiach doesnt have to do miracles, yet nobody is saying that he has to. It is clear from the laws of Moshiach, according to Rambam, that this is the case. So why the need to repeat it over and over again? Nobody is claiming that he will have to do miracles.

 Are you implying that I or someone else is denying these things? And anyway read the resurrection of the dead (the treatise from beginning to end either way).
 

[muman613]

 Are you implying that I or someone else is denying these things? And anyway read the resurrection of the dead (the treatise from beginning to end either way).

I have reproduced the Rambams Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim :

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,60141.msg538036.html#msg538036

And no I am not suggesting you deny either Techiat HaMatim nor Moshiach...  I am sorry if it seems that you are the one I was addressing in that paragraph. Let us all read the Hilchot Melachim by Rambam because I know we all agree on that {at least I hope}.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Gentlemen, can we please have these discussions without taking things personally?

We know certain things for sure:

*There will be resurrection of the dead תחיית המתים.

*There will eventually be eternal life.

What we do not know for sure is how this will occur. There are מחלוקות (disagreements) among Chazal (the rabbinic sages) about whether the Mashiach will die and be part of resurrection of the dead; about whether those who are still alive in the final generation will die and be resurrected; about whether those who are resurrected will die yet again (according to HaRambam) because we will eventually replace our earthly physical bodies with more perfected spiritual bodies that will live forever; or whether we will continue to live in our physical bodies forever (there are sages who are of this opinion).

There are also differences of opinion on whether there will be childbearing, eating, sleeping etc. There are some who believe that these activities will continue but not forever.

Obviously, when rabbinic sages express a view on what will happen, they base their view on understanding what we read in both the written Torah and the oral Torah.

In conclusion, we know for sure that this great redemption is coming and that there will be eternal life for those who fulfill what G-d has commanded. But when and exactly how this will occur is something we will only know when it actually happens.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I have reproduced the Rambams Mishne Torah Hilchot Melachim :

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,60141.msg538036.html#msg538036

 That is different than his treatise on resurrection (read both carefully you will see).

[muman613]

That is different than his treatise on resurrection (read both carefully you will see).

Do you know the name of the section of Mishne Torah that is in? I would like to read it...

Here is a good Chabad book from Sichos In English:

Publisher's Foreword
At some point very early in life, each of us becomes aware of how narrow the range of our vision inevitably is. Just as our mortal eyes cannot look further back than the day we were born, they cannot see further ahead than a certain other day in our physical lifetimes. Little wonder, then, that whenever we encounter a word about that uncharted future from the mouth of one of our Sages or Rebbeim, whose telescopic eyes (so to speak) have been shown its secrets, every such teaching is precious. Besides, for many Jews today, the Talmudic phrase hilchesa diMeshicha ("a law for the Days of Mashiach") no longer speaks of an era that is so far ahead that it becomes irrelevant and inconceivable: it speaks of an era that the Rebbe has assured us is just around the corner.

To Live and Live Again: An Overview of Techiyas HaMeisim Based on the Classical Sources and on the Teachings of Chabad Chassidism is a pioneering work. It was researched, written and annotated by Rabbi Nissan Dovid Dubov, emissary of Chabad-Lubavitch to the South London Jewish community, based at Chabad House, Wimbledon. Rabbi Dubov's research gleans from the Tanach, Talmud, Midrash, Halachah, Kabbalah and Chassidus, and echoes the underlying harmony of these seemingly diverse disciplines as repeatedly demonstrated in the published talks and letters of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/to-live-and-live-again/01.htm

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/to-live-and-live-again/16.htm

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Do you know the name of the section of Mishne Torah that is in? I would like to read it...

 Its not in Mishna Torah. Actually I just thought about it, I do not recommend it for you. Like I said earlier it is best not to focus on these things and just do the Mitzwoth.