Hitler was a sun worshipping pagan

[Rubystars]

Ruby,I want to let you know, that I'm not a Mason, or do I worship satan. I just find them interesting!(not satan!) And yes! I was influenced by Gnostic Christianity, and not Trinitarian. And I would never push that on you.

  I would like to add Hitler was not a Mason! He hated them,

I think that many similar societies have similar hand signals but the pictures I showed definitely showed him making the unmistakable M hand sign. If he wasn't affiliated with the Masons in any way, (we don't know whether he was or wasn't, we do know he was interested in the occult and the Nazis did have their own occult groups) then he was still at the very least referring to Mercury, the eagle/messenger of Zeus.

The ancient Greeks and Egyptians were sun worshippers. The Greeks and Romans worshipped Helius, the Egyptians Ra or Horus, but at the root of it all was worship of the sun. When Masons look to the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians for 'ancient knowledge', they are looking to pagan sources.

I've seen many Jews on this board speak out against Jews being influenced by Hellenism and of course we all know that Egypt was never a friend of Israel. So why a Jewish person would want to associate themselves with those who honor Greeks and Egyptians is beyond me.

Those who seek generic "light" and who look to pagan sources such as ancient Egyptians and Greeks for their enlightenment, are going to end up down a very wrong path.

and killed them second to the Jews. He did take things from them, symbols, etc. Hitler and the Russians both accused Masons and Jews of working together to take over the World! An example would be" The Elders of Zion".

  Do you think the Freemason are behind the NWO?

  P.s. I greatly appreciate your point of view.

I don't think individual freemasons are necessarily bad people. I respect them as individuals as long as they're not doing anything overtly evil. However I don't agree with their membership and I don't respect the organization because it conducts secret rituals and includes pagan symbols and seeks ancient wisdom from sources in addition to the Bible which is not good at all.

I do think some groups including some masonic organizations may be involved in the NWO but I don't think they're the whole picture.

I had a mason basically tell me recently that he believes that human beings are divine and have God within us, rather than there being an external God who will judge us. This is a real problem.

If a Jewish person wouldn't go into a church to pray with Christians, why would he conduct paganistic rituals with people of mixed religions in a lodge? That makes no logical sense.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Masons are radical Deists. They have little in common with either Jews or Christians.

[Rubystars]

Masons are radical Deists. They have little in common with either Jews or Christians.

I don't think any Bible believer would want to use all those occultic symbols and hand signs either.

[Rubystars]

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Proverbs&chapter=6&verse=

Proverbs teaches those who are making hand signs are doing evil.

[muman613]

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Proverbs&chapter=6&verse=

Proverbs teaches those who are making hand signs are doing evil.

It is strange that that is the Christian interpretation of that verse. Also I find the King James translation to be somewhat distorted from the simple meaning. According to Chabad translation of the first few pasuks is:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16377/showrashi/true

1. My son, if you have stood surety for your fellow, have given your hand for a stranger,

My son, if you have stood surety: Our Sages explained this as referring to surety in monetary matters, according to its apparent meaning.

2. you have been trapped by the sayings of your mouth; you have been caught by the sayings of your mouth.
3. Do this then, my son, and be saved for you have come into your fellow's palm; go, humble yourself and give your fellow superiority.

go, humble yourself: Heb. התרפס [a combination of two words, התר פס], open the palm of your hand for him to pay him his money.
and give your fellow superiority: Heb. ורהב. And if he has no money with you, only that you were trapped with the sayings of your mouth by speaking harshly to him, bring many friends to him to beg him to forgive you. Another explanation:
[1] My son, if you stood surety for your Friend: After you stood surety for the Holy One, blessed be He, Who is your “friend,” as it is written (Song 5:16): “This is my beloved and this is my friend”; you undertook at Sinai and in the plains of Moab with a curse and with an oath to observe His commandments.
have given your hand to a stranger: You have repented and turned from His ways and clung to the disbelievers to go in their ways.
[2] you have been trapped by the sayings of your mouth: You have given your hand to cling to strangers.
[3] Do this, then, my son, and be saved: Since you have come into the palm of your Friend at Sinai and you have accepted His Godliness over you,
go, humble yourself: Heb. התרפס. Humble yourself before Him like a threshold, which is trodden (נרפסת) and stepped on.
and increase your friends: Bring many friends who will pray for you before Him. In this manner it is expounded on in Midrash Psalms.

4. Give no sleep to your eyes nor slumber to your eyelids.

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It appears that this has nothing to do with 'hand signs' and more to do with the idea of clinging to foreign ideas. It also appears that the sages have said that this hand shaking has to do with monetary matters.

[Rubystars]

I really think if someone has to hide what they do with secret signals and signs that they are not a good person.

[muman613]

In Judaism there is a special significance to the handshake...


http://www.torah.org/advanced/business-halacha/5757/vol2no34.html

Question:

What Halachic obligations are created by the formalization of a transaction with a handshake, and when is a handshake considered an oath?

Answer:

A. There are actually three different types of handshakes, and each has different Halachic ramifications:
1. A handshake to formalize an acquisition (Kinyan) and transfer ownership from one party to another, in industries and societies where this is customarily done. For example, in the diamond industry a handshake is commonly used to effect a Kinyan.

2. A handshake can be used as an oath to obligate one's self to do something that he is committing himself to. This may be done between two parties, but may also be used to obligate one's self to do something not related to the person that he is shaking hands with.

3. A handshake to consummate an agreement with a friend, which obligates both of them to perform certain future commitments that they have made to one another.
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[muman613]

I really think if someone has to hide what they do with secret signals and signs that they are not a good person.

Indeed... A Handshake is a special covenant between two people in a transaction. It should not be in secret...

[muman613]

This article may also be of interest concerning Jews view of hand signs...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/407512/jewish/Hand-Signs-of-the-Jew.htm

Why Use Signs?

Hands are used to communicate or to show signs of respect or loyalty. In the religious sense, it may be to communicate with G-d, or to make others aware of respect or obedience to G-d. A hand sign also adds a physical dimension to the religious involvement expressed by speaking, singing or chanting.

The making of a sign signifies a group or community. Those who enter and recognize the sign will know that they have entered their own community. In some communities, these signs have been secret since the members had to impart a message that would have otherwise brought them into danger.

Jewish Hand Signs

Hand signs do not play as important a role in Jewish religious practice as in some other communities. Because the signs tend to be traditional, they are used less frequently and often not at all by less traditional Jews. There are no doubt many Jews who have never seen some of the hand signs, nor do they understand their origins and purpose.


The Sign of the Priestly Blessing

Of all the Jewish hand signs, the most famous is that of the priestly blessing, the Birchat Kohanim, and yet it is rarely seen. This is the sign of both hands outstretched at shoulder height under a tallit, with the fingers spread apart, as the Kohen blesses the congregation. The Kohen's face is covered. The hands in the position of the priestly blessing are often seen as decoration on jewelry or on the tombstone of a Kohen.

The hands are held with the fingers straight ahead with the little finger of each hand separated from the ring finger and a space between the second and third fingers. There is a further space between the two thumbs, making a total of five spaces. The palms are face downwards. The right hand is placed slightly above the left. This raising of the hands during the blessing is called the nesiat kohanim.

Breast Beating

At any time during a confessional, when the words "we have sinned" or words to that effect are stated, it is the custom to beat the left breast over the heart with the right fist. Self-flagellation is common in many religions. The Jewish practice of breast beating however, is not flagellation and is not intended to be painful. It is a symbol to remind the person of the words being spoken and to encourage penitence.

Pointing at the Torah

Following the reading of the Torah, the scroll is raised while still open for all to see. Once the act of raising the Torah or hagbah takes place, some communities have the custom to point at the Torah with the small finger, others point while holding the tzitzit or fringes of one's tallit while reciting the words "and this is the Torah."

Blessings over Shabbat Candles

When Shabbat candles are lit, a ritual involving hands takes place. Usually this is done by the woman lighting the candles, though if there is no woman in the house, a man is obligated to do it. The candles are lit, and with both hands she waves the light towards her three times. The symbolism is to draw the spirit of the holiness of the Shabbat towards her. She closes her eyes, covers them with her hands, and recites the blessing. It is this sight of physical movement, bathed in the soft glow of the candles, and the faint murmur of her prayers that has been etched into the memories of so many generations of Jews.

It is often the physical aspect of a ritual that not only adds to but impresses on us the importance of the ritual, so that we remember it long after the ritual is over. That is what Jewish hand signs are all about.

[Rubystars]

Indeed... A Handshake is a special covenant between two people in a transaction. It should not be in secret...

The handshake itself isn't bad but a lot of times there will be special handshakes which have secret meanings too.

Another thing I forgot to mention that I really should have mentioned before is that in addition to M for Mason and M for Mercury and an eagle claw mimic, and the M hand sign representing the letter Sigma, that M is also a Roman numeral for 1000. 1000 is also code for Helius/pagan sun deity.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

  Would you not use secret codes and symbols? If you were burnt at the stake for your beliefs and forced to say you worship satan.

  Sorry that is all I can say right now.

 P.S. I really did not want to get into this.

[Rubystars]

  Would you not use secret codes and symbols? If you were burnt at the stake for your beliefs and forced to say you worship satan.

  Sorry that is all I can say right now.

 P.S. I really did not want to get into this.

If you don't want to get into it then don't post in the thread anymore. I just think that in general good people don't need to hide what they do. If there is a specific reason for it then that's one thing like avoiding persecution but just in general every day life today, I don't see why you can't operate openly.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Yes, I don’t understand why they hide things today, but I’m not one of them. And I don’t really know what they are really about anymore. I AM a descendent of the Hussites. Who supposedly came from the Knights Templar? That is the predecessors of the Masons. (I believe).

  I could say something’s about pagan beliefs in the Roman Church (That has influenced Protestant Christianity), but I won’t.

  I do not want to fight with you, Ruby! We should all be together now! (Christians, Christians, and Jews!)

[Rubystars]

When Christians took over areas that were formerly pagan, some of the pagan practices were cleansed out, but others were harder to remove, and unfortunately some influence went back the wrong way. I'm aware of the issues you're talking about.

One set of great grandparents of mine were into masonry (that I know of, there could have been others). The wife was in Eastern Star, the husband was in Masonry proper. I'm not happy about this because I think it actually has caused spiritual problems for me because of generational things. If you have people in your family who were into the occult then that can affect you too, you have to pray about that in case there are any residual effects.

[Zelhar]

I don't think the Celts and the other northern European pagans were evil, or more evil, then the common Christian crusader and the pre-christian Romans of their time.

[Rubystars]

I don't think the Celts and the other northern European pagans were evil, or more evil, then the common Christian crusader and the pre-christian Romans of their time.

The pre-Christian Romans are one of the main peoples that Masons admire for their "ancient knowledge".

All the pagans in Europe and elsewhere were evil though. The Celts for example committed human sacrifice by tying people into wicker baskets and setting them on fire.

The crusaders were sent out by evil leadership to do evil things.

[Zelhar]

Is there a proof or strong evidence that the Celts were practicing human sacrifice ?

It is said that the Celts and the Goths used to settle arguments out of courts - by dueling to the death.

[Rubystars]

Is there a proof or strong evidence that the Celts were practicing human sacrifice ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Celts

It is said that the Celts and the Goths used to settle arguments out of courts - by dueling to the death.

Lots of people did that. It even used to be socially acceptable in the USA to challenge a social equal to a duel.

[~Hanna~]

very true.

I don't think any Bible believer would want to use all those occultic symbols and hand signs either.

[Israel Chai]

I heard Hiter was influenced by the golden dawn.

[Israel Chai]

Is there a proof or strong evidence that the Celts were practicing human sacrifice ?

Where does putting "christmas bulbs" on a tree (formerly oak) come from?

[Rubystars]

I heard Hiter was influenced by the golden dawn.

He was and also other occult influences. You have to understand that the order of the golden dawn and masonry are linked in some ways though. Aleister Crowley was involved with both.

I think I'm going to prepare an essay about Crowley where I talk about his extensive influence on modern culture and left wing ideas.

[Israel Chai]

He was and also other occult influences. You have to understand that the order of the golden dawn and masonry are linked in some ways though. Aleister Crowley was involved with both.

I think I'm going to prepare an essay about Crowley where I talk about his extensive influence on modern culture and left wing ideas.

Should you have any interest in an editor or a second opinion, I would be happy to help.

[Rubystars]

Where does putting "christmas bulbs" on a tree (formerly oak) come from?

I think it used to be candles but modern lights are safer and less likely to set the tree on fire (although it still happens). If people are going to have a tree it should definitely be an artificial one IMHO or don't put lights on it.

[Rubystars]

Should you have any interest in an editor or a second opinion, I would be happy to help.

Thanks for the offer I'll keep it in mind.