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Offline muman613

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Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« on: April 22, 2012, 05:51:57 PM »
As we were discussing in the Rambam thread there is some disagreement between Rambam and other sources which I would like to discuss and possibly explore further. While I intend to fully explain my understanding in a future posting, at the moment I do not have the time to provide my full 'thesis' on this topic.

In the meantime I will provide the following link and excerpt from the Chabad answer on the topic. I cannot disagree with what the Chabad site says and it is certain that I will provide further sources in later postings.



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/269721/jewish/Is-Astrology-Kosher.htm

Is Astrology Kosher?
By Levi Brackman


Predicting the future is big business. From newspaper astrologers to corporate consultants, there are many people out there ready to profit from our insatiable desire to know the unknown. Often, when contemplating major changes in my life, I am tempted to check my astrological reading. Is there anything wrong with this? Can an intelligent person believe in astrology without feeling ridiculous?

It is fascinating to note that the rabbis of the Talmud gave considerable credence to astrology. The Talmud states that “upon entry into the month of Adar one should become increasingly joyous. Rav Papa said: ‘Therefore a Jew should avoid litigation with gentiles in the month of Av, because his mazal is bad; and he should move the court case to the month of Adar, when his mazal is good.’”1 The Hebrew word which Talmud uses here, mazal, is usually translated “luck” but literally means “constellations.”

Astrology is not only a factor to be taken into account when planning future events—it also influences human nature. According to the Talmud, one born under the constellation of the sun will achieve eminence, and one born under Venus will become wealthy and immoral. One born under Mercury will be wise and have a retentive memory. One born under the Moon will suffer evil. One born under Saturn will suffer frustration, one born under Jupiter will be righteous, and one born under Mars will become either a surgeon or a slaughterer.2 A birthday is therefore viewed by the rabbis as a day on which personal astrological fortune is at its most potent.3

There is an uncomfortable contradiction inherent in all this. Although astrology is prominent in rabbinic thought, Jewish law cautions against seeking the advice of astrologers.4 But if astrology is a true science, why not consult it? The following Midrashic parable sheds light on this.

A king conquered a new province, the elite of which decided that they needed to forge connections with the new rulers. Some decided to become acquainted with the dukes, others with the knights and yet others with the ministers. The wisest amongst them declared, “I will forge a connection with the king himself.” He reasoned, “All the ministers, knights and dukes change; however, the king will always remain king.5

So, too, continues the Midrash, some people attribute power to the constellations and wish to serve them. Monotheistic believers, however, realize that G‑d is the supreme power, and that all other powers are no more than obedient servants who carry out His will.

Since everything in the universe is subject to the laws of cause and effect, according to nature the month of Adar is an astrologically lucky month, and a birthday has unique astrological potential for the celebrant. However, reliance on astrology could lead one to conclude that nature has a life of its own, and that the celestial spheres have powers independent of G‑d’s will. In fact, these are no more than a manifestation of the divine will. This is why prayer is so important. Mundane life seeks to convince us that life is dictated by the laws of nature. Prayer reminds us that nature is controlled by G‑d.

The message is clear: nature and its rules—including astrological truths—do exert an influence on our lives. It presents us with auspicious times and circumstances, and inauspicious ones; it imbues our character with certain traits and tendencies. However, one must recognize that ultimate power rests not with “nature” but with the Creator of heaven and earth.6


FOOTNOTES
1.   Talmud, Taanit 29a–b.
2.   Talmud, Shabbat 156a. Although rabbinic consensus holds that Jews are not affected by mazal, the great medieval Talmudist Ritva (Rabbi Yom Tov ibn Asevilli, circa 1300) suggests that in this context the word mazal is to be understood as a generic term for “decree” rather than constellations. He thus suggests that when the rabbis of the Talmud say that Jews are not affected by mazal, they mean that they can subvert divine decrees through the performance of good deeds (Taanit 29a).
3.   See Jerusalem Talmud, Rosh Hashanah 3:8, regarding the Amalekites: in their war against the Israelites they used soldiers who were celebrating their birthday that day, so that they would have an astrological advantage over the enemy.
4.   Talmud, Pesachim 113b.
5.   Midrash Rabbah, Eichah 3.
6.   It must be noted, however, that not all the rabbis believed in the truth of astrology. In fact Judaism’s great codifier and philosopher, Maimonides (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, 1135–1204), dismissed astrology as having no validity. See his Epistle to Yemen, Chapter 3, and his Commentary on the Mishnah, Avodah Zarah 4:7.

It should also be noted that none of this is intended as an endorsement of the modern-day “astrology” practiced by pop astrologers and published in Internet and newspaper “horoscopes,” which probably bear little or no relation to the ancient science of astrology mentioned in the Talmud.



My basic premise, I will admit, is that the lesson is that Jews are above the natural laws of the world. That when we are able to rise to the role which Hashem actually intends us to, that no law of nature will stand in our way. The world, the sun, and the stars are moving according to observable patterns and yet the Jew is not subject to these natural patterns, and through teshuva and prayer, we can alter the 'gezira/decree' which may be against us.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 05:55:50 PM »
Here is an aspect of the belief I have concerning 'Mazal'...



http://www.inner.org/responsa/leter1/resp28.htm

Q: Does astrology determine destiny? Is there a difference in this respect between a Jew and non-Jew?

A: There is a difference of opinion in the Talmud as to what factors determine a Jew's destiny. The accepted opinion is that ein mazal l'Yisrael, the stars do not determine a Jew's destiny.

The Ba'al Shem Tov explains that ein mazal l'Yisrael is to be read aiyin mazal l'Yisrael. The fate of Yisrael is the Divine state of "Nothingness." The fate of all other mankind is a state of being. Every non-Jew has a fate which is from destiny. Whether inscribed in the stars or some other dimension of reality is not significant. There is some fate which is almost impossible for the non-Jew to overcome.

A Jew, on the other hand, can overcome his mazal. This is because the origin of his fate is the "Divine Nothing" itself which is not well defined, as it is from the essence of G-d which is also not well defined. Just as G-d cannot be defined, so the destiny of a Jew cannot be defined. This is what is meant by Aiyin, "nothingness" is the mazal of Israel.

On every birthday the mazal of a person becomes stronger and shines from the super conscious level of the root of his soul into the consciousness of his soul. The mazal gives him strength to use to the maximum his power of free choice. This is just the opposite of thinking that mazal is not free choice.

In his book Etz Chaim, the Arizal explains that non-Jewish astrology only reaches a certain level of the 12 constellations or signs of astrology, but there are many levels above this. The highest of all levels are the 12 permutations of G-d's Name, Havayah. Only the Jewish People are connected to this level. By being connected to this level they have the power to re-create. (The Name Havayah means "continual creation".)

Astrology is very limited. The Torah and the Jewish People transcend this limitation of the non-Jewish astrology. When something is transcended it doesn't nullify its abstract source. Transcendence occurs by reaching the abstract source. That is what the Ba'al Shem Tov meant when he said that Israel's mazal is aiyin.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 06:00:32 PM »
Here is a discussion of the great sage Ramchal, the author of Da'at Tevunot, and his view toward Jewish astrology..



http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/daat6-8.html

Ramchal

Da'at Tevunot - The Knowing Heart: Section 6, Chapter 8


1. Like the stars, each and every moment alternately shines and dims, shines and dims. Each moment matters, has its needs, makes its demands, gets its due, offers its help, and then steps aside for the next one. And again like the stars, each moment is fed by forces higher, wider, and deeper than it, and subsequently feeds phenomena lower, thinner, and shallower than it.

Not only is that so, but we find in fact that each moment is affected by a star (or a swatch of them) which is itself affected by the moment itself, after which the moment passes on its influence to another one, and so one down the line. This is the thrust of the theory of Astrology in the context of the passage of time, which will be stressed later on here. Astrology, the study of the influence of the celestial upon the terrestrial, is an ancient art which, while having passed from favor in the modern world, was nonetheless once perceived as the system par excellence of gaining insight into reality.

2. Many of our greatest sages discussed the reality upon which Astrology might be based and its efficacy, and we’ll offer some insights now into their thinking before we explore Ramchal’s own. We do this because Astrology is about to be cited in Da’at Tevunot and we wanted to lay out the various Torah perspectives on it since it’s usually and often automatically pooh-poohed and written off by most of us -- either justifiably or not, as we’ll see.

First off, let it be noted that Astrology is never cited in the five books of the Torah, a fact that simply cannot be denied and that undoes its truth in the eyes of many. But gravity doesn’t figure in the Torah either, nor do other things of that order which while fundamental to reality have no bearing on the Torah’s concerns. But it is cited several times in the other books of Tanach where its practitioners are scoffed at (see Isaiah 47:13 and Jeremiah 10:2) or where its simply cited as a fact of life (see Daniel 2:2, 4, 5, 10; 4:14; 5:7, 11).

The Talmud and later works often cited it and sometimes sided with it, while other times rejected it. On the one hand, Avraham and we, his descendants, are said to be above the subjection to the stars (see Breishit Rabbah 44:12), while on the other hand we’re told that the blessing bestowed on Avraham in Genesis 24:1 is to be interpreted as the gift of Astrology (see Tosefta to Kiddushin 5:17). And there are positive views of it cited in other places (see Shabbat 119a, Kohelet Rabbah 173, etc.).

The great Sa’adia Gaon wrote a commentary to Sefer Yetzirah based on Astrological principles, and Ibn Ezra wrote about it extensively, as did Yehudah HaLevi. But the mighty Rambam was famously against it on all levels, which clinched it for many. The Zohar and the Kabbalists accepted Astrology as a truism, and so did Ramchal, as we’ll now see.

3. The first thing to note is that when he discussed it at length in Derech Hashem, Ramchal spoke of it in terms of one of the systems that G-d uses to govern the world, thus indicating from the very first that G-d alone is behind everything even when He uses various phenomena to help carry out His wishes. And he spoke of the stars and constellations as “having influence over” the world, as acting as “pipelines” of G-d’s light rather than as controlling things., and as being limited in scope and not capable of revealing very many element s of reality (2:7:1-4).

In any event he’ll soon cite Astrology as a means of understanding many things about G-d’s interaction with the world, which is our concern here.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 06:07:28 PM »
Here is some of Ramchals sefer, "The Way of G-d", where he is discussing Divine Providence:




http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-7-1.html

Part 2: "Divine Providence"
Chapter 7: "The Influence of the Stars"

Paragraph 1

It's ironic that we in modernity are more thunderstruck by the millions of lights on the ground when our plane descends at night over a city than we are by the sight of millions of stars and planets in the sky. The ancients, though, were indeed nonplused by the over arching ring of galaxies over their heads. Is it because they were more Heaven-centered than we, and we more earth-centered than they? Probably. But be that as it may, it's clear that they realized the power of the galaxies while we simply don't.

Perhaps that's why the following statement by G-d doesn't quite move us. G-d is revealed to have told us the following: "I created twelve constellations in the firmament, and I created thirty hosts for each one. For each host I created thirty legions; for each legion I created thirty cohorts; for each cohort I created thirty maniples; for each maniple I created thirty camps; and I attached three hundred and sixty-five thousand myriads of stars to each camp... *all for your sake*" (Berachot 32b). The implication is of course that the universe is vast, opulent, and chock full of stellar life, and that somehow or another it all serves *our* needs. So let's now explore the role the various planets and stars play in our lives.

Ramchal starts by reminding us of the point he'd made a while back: that there's a Heavenly "backdrop" behind everything in our world that includes transcendent forces and angels (see 1:5:1). Included among them, we now find, are the stars and planets, too. What they do is draw out and transfer the "information" stored in the transcendent forces to our world, and make sure it's all applied in the appropriate material form.

Like everything else, the exact number of stars and planets, and the potency accorded each is specific to the tasks at hand and purposeful. Each serves to fulfill G-d's purposes, and the lot of them help to maintain the material world and to turn spiritual essences into matter.



http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-7-2.html

Part 2: "Divine Providence"
Chapter 7: "The Influence of the Stars"

Paragraph 2

Let's lay out the cosmic process of interaction between Heaven and Earth again in more detail.

Everything that happens on Earth is initiated up Above, as we've said. By G-d at first, then through the transcendent forces, where the "information" to be communicated is then stored. The planets and stars then transmute and "translate" all this information into earthly form in general, as we learned last time. The point to be made now is that that information is then applied to a form that's appropriate to each individual and for every happenstance.

The broad, overarching, and far-reaching life-themes touched by this process include our mortality, well-being, sustenance, intellect, family life, and the like.

But the stars and planets don't only transmute this information from Heaven as a matter of course. Each one lends a particular hue and tone to whatever it affects. Thus, each element of our life is affected by a particular star or planet with its own makeup, character, and idiosyncrasies as well as by the combination of stars and planets in the cosmos.

And the whole of it -- from on high down to each element and every moment below -- is one grand, roiling cosmic stew.



http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-7-3.html

Part 2: "Divine Providence"
Chapter 7: "The Influence of the Stars"

Paragraph 3

Each and every one of us, Jew and Gentile, is effected by the draw and reach of the stars. Much the way we're all subject to the same laws of nature and share a common physiognomy.

But just as the laws of nature can be overridden by miracles and wonders, the influence of the stars can be countermanded as well -- when G-d wants it to be.

That explains the dictum that the Jewish People aren't beholden to the rule of the constellations (see Shabbat 156A). That doesn't mean to say that we're oblivious to or utterly above the laws of nature or the influence of the stars.

It's just that there are times when G-d's ultimate will -- which we play a direct role in -- surpasses the natural order of things. And those are the time when extraordinary things happen to us despite the planets and stars.


http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-7-4.html

Part 2: "Divine Providence"
Chapter 7: "The Influence of the Stars"

Paragraph 4

Never forget, though, that the planets and stars aren't independent entities with powers of their own, as some mistakenly assume. Indeed, the Jewish understanding of their role in the grand scheme of things is very different from others'.

Others believe that the planets and stars hold sway over our lives and are a force not to be denied. As we've been indicating, we believe that G-d uses their electric and majestic push and pull to affect us, but not to determine our "fate" in any sense of the word. For the constellations indeed are beholden to rules G-d has them follow and they're limited in what they can do.

So let's try to illustrate the actual role the constellations play in our lives by means of an analogy.

Imagine, if you will, that we were seeds in the soil of a boundless field rather than indiviuals in vast space. Look upon the planets and stars in that context as relatively large pebbles and clumps of soil in close-enough proximity to us to affect the way life-giving water and minerals reach us, and thus our quality of life. See them and us in that context and you come closer to the idea of the place of the constellations in the big picture. It's not that they have power over us and rule the heavens -- G-d forbid! It's just that in their relative proximity to us they affect our experience of G-d's life-giving radiant splendor to a very great degree.

Some individuals can determine approximately how much the constellations affect us by "reading" them. But those individuals can indeed be far off, since our knowledge of the forces behind the planets and stars is limited. Also because the planets' and stars' influences are often overridden by G-d's will, as we've indicated.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 06:14:43 PM »
And one more before I take a break... I hope to post my own observations later this evening...


http://www.oztorah.com/2007/10/astrology-ask-the-rabbi/

Q. Abraham is promised progeny as numerous as the stars. How does Judaism regard star-gazing and astrology?

A. Ben Sira says in the Apocrypha, “The beauty and glory of heaven are the stars, gleaming ornaments in the heights of God. At the word of the Holy One they take their prescribed places and they sleep not at their watches” (Ecclesiasticus 43:9).

But there are divergent views as to whether the stars and heavenly bodies influence events in the universe. The Song of Deborah declares, “The stars in their courses fought against Sisera” (Judges 5:20); but this was no mere astrological superstition, as the Century Bible points out in its comment, “The heavenly bodies that rule the seasons and weather helped the Hebrew against Sisera by flooding the Kishon”.

However, the less rational approach was hard to shake off. There is a legend that Abraham had a diagram that charted the power of the stars, but when told to abandon astrological calculations he complied. The simple people were harder to convince and were reluctant to question the influence of the stars, though one prophet after another trenchantly condemned it. Divination came under attack by Hosea, Amos, Micah and others. Isaiah scorned “the astrologers, the star-gazers, the monthly prognosticators” (Isaiah 47:13). Jeremiah insists on the absurdity of being influenced by “the signs of heaven” (Jer. 10:2).

Yet astrology become entrenched regardless; Josephus says it was widespread in his day, and even Talmudic sages took it seriously. The great Rava said that “Life, merit and sustenance depend not on merit but on the stars” (Mo’ed Katan 28a), though Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Yochanan and others declared that the stars had no power over the destiny of Israel (Shabbat 156a, etc.).

A number of great medieval thinkers regarded astrology as a respectable science, though Maimonides unambiguously rejected and condemned it. However, many later writers took no notice of him, and the Zohar says, “There is not one blade of grass in the whole world over which a star or planet does not preside” (2:171d).

To the modern mind it is difficult to ascribe credibility to astrology, but there are presumably Jews amongst the eager readers of the astrological columns. Simplistic popular superstitions are hard to shake, even the habit of saying mazal tov, which is literally, “May you have a good planet”. The only way one can say mazal tov without being superstitious is to regard mazal as the initial letters of “Makom, Z’man, La’asot“, i.e. be in the right place (makom) at the right time (z’man), and you can achieve something (la’asot). This is an acknowledgement of historical forces, not an assertion of mere heavenly co-incidence.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 06:31:17 PM »
Here is a good answer from the Rabbi at Yeshiva Ohr Samayach:



http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/255/Q1/


Dear Rabbi,

A nearby Jewish group is planning to hold a book discussion on Nostradamus. It was my impression that Judaism seriously frowned upon the belief that the stars can be used to predict the future. Nostradamus, to me, seems way off the Jewish path...despite the fact that Im now told he had a Jewish background. I usually attend this series of book discussions; however, Nostradamus strikes a discordant note. Have I misread Jewish law and not heard enough about Nostradamus?


(Thank you for a wonderful Ask-the-Rabbi feature).

Dear Perplexed along the Potomac,

Actually, it is generally accepted by the Talmud and Midrashim that the stars do indeed influence events, and that one who understands this influence can, to some extent, predict future events. Its not really so different from the way a meteorologist or a stock analyst look at trends and influences and foresee tomorrows outcome.

For example, the Egyptian astrologers correctly foresaw that a baby would be born who would redeem the Jews from Egypt which, by the way, is why Pharaoh decreed that the babies be cast into the Nile.

But you dont put your full faith in the weather forecast, and certainly not in stock predictions, do you? All the more so should we be highly skeptical of the accuracy of whoever presumes to read the stars, especially today. Even the ancient Egyptians, who were proven experts, were only able to see generalities, and couldnt predict anything with perfect accuracy. The farther along we get from their ancient wisdom, the hazier this area of knowledge seems to become.

Furthermore, G-d is All-Powerful and can change what the future seems to hold. For example, through our prayer and good deeds, G-d may change a "bad" event into a good one.

Astrologers told Rabbi Akiva that a snake would bite and kill his daughter on the day of her wedding. On her wedding night, she took the jeweled pin from her hair and stuck it into the wall; in the morning light she saw that her pin was stuck through the head of a snake which had been poised to bite her! Rabbi Akiva asked her, "My daughter! Some good deed must have saved you from this snake. Can you think what it might have been?" "Well," she answered, "last night a poor man came to the wedding, but everyone was too busy with the feast to notice, so I gave him my portion of food."

The Torah tells us to live in the present and have perfect faith in G-d. If we do so, we wont feel the need to know or worry about future events that are beyond our control. All said, therefore, I dont think a Jew should give much weight to the predictions of any would-be star-gazer.

Source:

Shabbat 156b
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 07:33:33 PM »
I will eventually bring some sources which do not support this belief that there is any power in Astrology but first I will further expose reasons to consider Astrology as having some validity...

According to the legends of Purim the month of Adar was shown according to Astrology of the Persians to be a very bad time for the Jewish people. It is for this reason that Haman {Yemach Shemo} was glad that his little lottery came out as the month of Adar. But even though according to the natural laws of astrology the Jewish people were supposed to be annihilated, because of their sincere Teshuva and hearkening to Mordechai the entire people were saved from the 'evil decree'.



http://www.tfdixie.com/holidays/purim/006.htm

Quote
Purim

The name Purim comes from the Hebrew word "pur," which means "a lottery." Haman conducted a lottery to find the most conducive day for killing the Jews. Rabbi David Feinstein, one of the foremost contemporary Jewish leaders, comments, "a pur is a special kind of lottery. Rather than being conducted at random, a pur utilizes logic and astrology to determine which day is best for the purpose at hand."

Haman did not realize that unlike the fates of the gentile nations which are influenced by the stars and random forces in the universe, the fate of the Jews is not. Our fate and future are only determined by G-d and our belief in Him. Even though Haman saw through astrology that the Jews would be doomed on Purim, G-d's promise to always protect us superseded even the power of the stars.

Adar

Purim falls during the Hebrew month of Adar. The word Adar can be divided into the letter Aleph, and the word dor. Aleph can either be a letter or a word, and as a word it is a name for G-d. Dor means "dwells." In the month of Adar it can be truly said "G-d dwells," because he made His presence and His powers felt throughout the Purim story.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 07:38:59 PM »
More information on some Jewish beliefs concerning stellar influence on mankind:



http://ohr.edu/2394/print

Dear Rabbi,

A Jewish college professor told me that the symbols of the Jewish month, i.e. fish, scales, scorpion, pail, bow etc. originate from the Romans. I would like to know if this is correct because I thought that they originated from the Jews. Your web site talks about the symbols so I thought you may know the answer. Thanks, RS.


Dear RS,

With due respect to your professor, it is widely accepted in academia that the zodiac signs as we know them [Aries, the Ram; Taurus, the Bull; Gemini, the Twins; Cancer, the Crab; Leo, the Lion; Virgo, the Virgin; Libra, the Balance; Scorpio, the Scorpion; Sagittarius, the Archer; Capricorn, the Goat; Aquarius, the Water Bearer; and Pisces, the Fishes] originated in ancient Mesopotamia. The Greeks later adopted the symbols from the Babylonians and passed them on to other ancient civilizations such as the Romans who came much later. If the Jews received the zodiac signs from another culture, it was not from the Romans but from the Babylonians.

However, the Jewish perspective is that the signs of the zodiac were positioned at the time of Creation, and their influence is intimated in the Torah. Thus our Talmudic Sages describe in great detail the dynamic between the progression of the creation of the zodiac signs and their corresponding influence on Mankind (Pesikta, ch. 4). Furthermore, the entire wisdom of the Torah, including the knowledge of the zodiac, was taught by G-d to Adam and his descendents. Even though it was eventually perverted and incorporated by most of humanity into idol worship, a select few such as Abraham retained its true meaning.

So writes Rambam, "Their mistaken reasoning was that since G-d created the skies and spheres as part of nature, and placed them high up and gave them dignity, as servants who serve Him, it would be appropriate to laud, glorify and honor them as wellOnce this matter was decided upon, they proceeded to build temples to the stars, to bring sacrifices to them, to laud and glorify them verbally and to bow down to themBut as for the Creator, only certain individuals recognized Him, such as Hanoch, Metushelach, Noah, Shem and Ever. Things continued in this manner until Abrahamwas born" (Avodat Kochavim 1:1).

In fact, regarding Abrahams having no children, the Torah states, "And Abraham said, Lord G-d, what will you give me, seeing I go childless?.And He brought him outside and said, Look toward the heaven and count the stars if you are able to number them, and He said to him, So shall thy seed be" (Gen. 15:5-8). Our Sages explained that Abraham saw in the stars that the astrological influence under which he was born dictated that he would have no children. G-d replied, I will intervene such that your offspring will be as numerous as the very stars in which you see youll have no children (Shabbat 156a).

The Zohar, which according to Jewish tradition is attributed to the teachings of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai of the 2nd century, correlates the 12 signs of the zodiac to the 12 Hebrew months and the 12 tribes of Israel (I:173). Since the essence of each tribe is essential to the nature of the Jewish People, which is inextricably bound with the purpose of Creation and its future fruition, this supports the ideas mentioned above that the influence of the zodiac was fixed from Creation and known to the Jewish People from the time of their inception.

It is important to remember that since the Hebrew months literally correspond to the moon, each month begins and ends with the new moon, and the full moon is in the middle of the month. Therefore, unlike the common, incorrect version of the zodiac based on the Gregorian calendar, each sign is in harmony with one month, with its greatest influence during the full moon of that month. One of the earliest, ancient Jewish texts called Sefer Yetzira correlates the zodiac signs with the months, tribes and 12 faculties as follows:

The sign of Nisan is Tleh/Aries/Ram corresponding to Judah and the faculty of Speech. This is the month the Jews overcame the Egyptian deity of the ram. Judah means "thanks", related to speech and on Passover of this month the Pascal lamb was offered and we recite the haggada.

Iyar is Shor/Taurus/Bull corresponding to Issachar (Torah scholars) and the faculty of Thought. In this month we must be as strong and stubborn as a bull in preparation to receive the Torah.

Sivan is Teumim/Gemini/Twins corresponding to Zevulun (Torah supporters) and the faculty of Motion. This is the month of Shavuot when we received the double Tablets and should strengthen our efforts to support Torah.

Tamuz is Sartan/Cancer/Crab corresponding to Reuven (means "see") and the faculty of Sight. Just as the crab hides, so we should refrain from the distractions of this summer month and direct our sights toward spiritual pursuits.

Av is Ari/Leo/Lion corresponding to Shimon (means "hear") and the faculty of Hearing. In this month, the lion-like nations of Babylon and Rome destroyed the Temlpe and we must listen to the lesson and return to G-d.

Elul is Betula/Virgo/Virgin corresponding to Gad and the faculty of Action. This is the month of repenting, to purify our thoughts and deeds in preparation of Rosh Hashana.

Tishrei is Moznaim/Libra/Scales corresponding to Ephraim (fruitful) and the faculty of Coition. In this month is Rosh Hashana on which we are judged, and hope to merit a productive new year.

Cheshvan is Akrav/Scorpio/Scorpion corresponding to Menashe and the faculty of Smell. This month lacks a holiday and may be spiritually cold as venom, yet one must work hard to change the letters of Menashe to "neshama" spirituality.

Kislev is Kashet/Sagittarius/Archer corresponding to Benjamin (warriors) and the faculty of Sleep. Here we must direct and propel the inspiration from Chanuka through the rest of the winter to overcome spiritual slumber.

Tevet is Gedi/Capricorn/Kid corresponding to Dan (judge) and the faculty of Anger. The siege against Jerusalem began in this month as a result of baseless hatred among Jews. Here we must be as steadfast as a goat to refrain from judging unfavorably which leads to anger and destruction.

Shevat is Dli/Aquarius/Water Drawer corresponding to Asher (wealth) and the faculty of Taste. By this month most of the rain in Israel has fallen and we celebrate Tu bShevat by eating bountiful fruits.

Adar is Dagim/Pisces/Fish corresponding to Naftali and the faculty of Laughter. Just as fish are covered by the sea, in this month we observe Purim which celebrates the hidden miracles of G-d which bring salvation and joy to the Jewish people.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 07:44:28 PM »
As a negative commandment we are instructed that it is forbidden to try to predict the future. I am never suggesting that we should use the knowledge we have to try to predict the future.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/900467/jewish/Negative-Commandment-32.htm

Quote
"There shall not be found among you... a diviner of times"—Deuteronomy 18:10.

It is forbidden to predict the auspiciousness of times or dates based on astrological formations: "This day is auspicious, and this day not so." It is also forbidden to act based on such predictions.

Also included in this prohibition is sleight of hand. It is forbidden to deceptively use sleight of hand to convince others that one has magical powers.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2012, 07:48:09 PM »
It is a theme in Torah that those who try to utilize Astrology usually are the wicked and the Jew haters.

It is said that Bilaam, the gentile Prophet who was sent to curse the Jewish people, was also an Astrologer. As I mentioned above the Egyptians were very accustomed to Astrology, as were the Babylonians and Persians.



Quote
http://www.aish.com/tp/b/app/48958996.html
There is much discussion in the commentaries as to the true nature of Bilaam. In the view of some he was a prophet, in the view of others a charlatan. Some say he was an astrologer, others a liar. Whatever the case may be, however, one thing is clear - he was a very evil man. For a high enough wage he was willing to curse an entire people.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 07:56:57 PM »
http://www.naaleh.com/viewclass/505/single/

Rabbi Avishai David analyzes the position of the goyim and of Klal Yisrael regarding astrology,and explains the significance of 'Tamim T'hiyeh Im Hashem Elokecha.' This Torah class is available online in streaming video and for download in mp3 and ipod formats.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2012, 09:25:52 PM »
This is what abolished our kingdom, destroyed our Beit HaMikdash, prolonged our exile, and brought us to our present predicament. Our fathers sinned and are no more.

For they found many astrology books, followed them, and went astray. They imagined that these wisdoms were glorious and greatly beneficial, and they did not study warfare and land conquest. Instead, they imagined that these wisdoms would help them. Therefore, the prophets called them fools; and they certainly were fools, for they followed vanities which cannot avail nor rescue, for they are vain.   (Iggrot U'Teshuvot LeRambam, Iggrot Shonot, p. 21. 204)
Israel613.com
 
See also
http://people.bu.edu/dklepper/RN242/rambam2.html
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »
This is what abolished our kingdom, destroyed our Beit HaMikdash, prolonged our exile, and brought us to our present predicament. Our fathers sinned and are no more.

For they found many astrology books, followed them, and went astray. They imagined that these wisdoms were glorious and greatly beneficial, and they did not study warfare and land conquest. Instead, they imagined that these wisdoms would help them. Therefore, the prophets called them fools; and they certainly were fools, for they followed vanities which cannot avail nor rescue, for they are vain.   (Iggrot U'Teshuvot LeRambam, Iggrot Shonot, p. 21. 204)
Israel613.com
 
See also
http://people.bu.edu/dklepper/RN242/rambam2.html

Yes, I saw this in Dan's thread on Rambam... And several sources I have brought have acknowledged the Rambams position. I stated initially I am bringing sources other than Rambam which support the belief that there is a power of nature, which is expressed in the stars, and yet a Jew must not look to these things in order to determine the future.

Every source I bring says clearly that we should not attempt to use this kind of knowledge in order to control the future, or to foresee the future, but that we should know in our EMMUNAH and BITACHON in Hashem that even if it seems that nature is against us, that we can be above nature, as our father Abraham was shown by Hashem in the desert.

I have stated many times that I am against anyone trying to foretell the date of the final redemption. I am content just knowing that it will come, when Hashem thinks it is the correct time.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 10:13:04 PM »
This is what abolished our kingdom, destroyed our Beit HaMikdash, prolonged our exile, and brought us to our present predicament. Our fathers sinned and are no more.

For they found many astrology books, followed them, and went astray. They imagined that these wisdoms were glorious and greatly beneficial, and they did not study warfare and land conquest. Instead, they imagined that these wisdoms would help them. Therefore, the prophets called them fools; and they certainly were fools, for they followed vanities which cannot avail nor rescue, for they are vain.   (Iggrot U'Teshuvot LeRambam, Iggrot Shonot, p. 21. 204)
Israel613.com
 
See also
http://people.bu.edu/dklepper/RN242/rambam2.html
Which kingdom?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 10:42:22 AM »
http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2012/04/review-of-secrets-of-stars.html

 (and to Ephraim- the Jewish one before the galut).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 01:13:29 AM »
Rambam was ahead of his time when he boldly declared, against the consensus of all types of scholars in his day, religious, philosophical, and "scientific" (however you can define that term in that age), that astrology was nonsense and idolatrous gobbledy gook (using my own terms here).   It was only many years later that the consensus of scholarship including scientists came to see that astrology was bogus and the world as a whole today considers it a fallacy.  Rambam was right on in seeing it for what it was.    Of course some disagree and still cling to it today even as its been discredited as a discipline in light of modern scientific standards.  There are certain aspects of the kabbalah/mysticism which draw on astrology and themes therein to make complex statements about Bible and correlations between verses etc.   

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 01:49:49 AM »
Rambam was ahead of his time when he boldly declared, against the consensus of all types of scholars in his day, religious, philosophical, and "scientific" (however you can define that term in that age), that astrology was nonsense and idolatrous gobbledy gook (using my own terms here).   It was only many years later that the consensus of scholarship including scientists came to see that astrology was bogus and the world as a whole today considers it a fallacy.  Rambam was right on in seeing it for what it was.    Of course some disagree and still cling to it today even as its been discredited as a discipline in light of modern scientific standards.  There are certain aspects of the kabbalah/mysticism which draw on astrology and themes therein to make complex statements about Bible and correlations between verses etc.   

This is your opinion and you are not understanding that Jewish understanding of Mazel is not intended to predict the future. In my understanding there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that everything in this universe, actually everything in creation, has influence on everything around it.

And as I have repeatedly shown in this thread, which you neglect to address, is that this does not come from 'Kabbalah' or the 'Zohar' as you imply. These ideas come straight from the Talmud and the Midrash, and these ideas have influences on many traditions and customs of the Jewish people.

Do you wonder where the phrase 'Mazel Tov' comes from? Do you even know what Mazel is?

This is not 'New Age' astrology where you look up your horoscope. The concept of Mazel is tied directly to the idea that every star has an influence on everything, just as the electron field of atoms have an influence on the nucleus.

Everyone who is disputing this immediately runs to Rambam but Rambam was not accepted in his time for trying to fit Judaism into a Greek Philosophy framework. Judaism is not RATIONAL as some here are trying to portray. What is meant by Rational? It is something which can be explained by rational logic, producing demonstrable results. Is it rational to believe that there is a reward in the afterlife? Is it rational to believe in the ressurrection of the dead? Is it rational to believe in Miracles?

How about the commandment of the Red Calf? Does it make sense to you? That there is impurity from a dead body? Why hasn't science discovered tumah {ritual impurity}? How does sprinkling of ashes on a person transfer the impurity from the impure to the pure? Im sure there is a rational explanation, isn't there?

Spiritual energy is not measurable by any science. The influence of the stars on people have been discussed by one of the greatest Rabbis, even Rabbi Akiva in the Talmud discusses astrology. And the lesson to the Jew is that while there is a natural cycle in the world, we are not subject to it.

Why Rambam had such a view? I cannot explain. Maybe it was because he was living in Spain where the Muslims were invading. Didn't Rambam live and serve as a doctor to a Muslim? Do you also agree with Rambam that there is nothing wrong with a Jew attending prayers in a Mosque since muslims also pray to the one deity? I don't agree with that, nor do many other sages...

It is predictable that some of you would not agree, but there is no need to be defensive about it.



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 01:52:14 AM »
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361901/jewish/Angels-and-Mazalot.htm

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One of the most important factors in astrology is the time and date of a person’s birth. The Talmud states that there is a “Mazal of the hour.” The time, day, and date when a person is born has an important influence on his destiny. The stars in the sky also form an important link in G-d’s providence over the physical world. Between G-d and Man, there are many levels of interaction, the lowest being those between the angels and stars. The Midrash and Zohar state, “There is no blade of grass that does not have a “constellation”—Mazal—over it, telling it to grow.” This means that G-d’s providence works through the angels, but these angels in turn work through the stars and planets. In a sense, we could speak of the angels as souls to the stars. Some sources speak of the stars as having intelligence, but the commentaries note that this is actually speaking of the angels that are associated with them.

.
.
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The Torah states (Deuteronomy 18:10) “There shall not be found among you one who calculates times.” The Talmud, in the name of Rabbi Akiva, specifically applies this prohibition to one who calculates auspicious times, meaning that one should not make astrology a dominant influence in one’s daily life and predictions through astrology are forbidden. Therefore one should not use horoscopes to determine one’s future actions, though it is permitted to do character analyzes through astrology.

It is the prevalent custom that on a happy occasion such as a birth, one wishes “Mazal tov” indicating the wish that the planetary influence on the child should be a good one. Yet we are not slaves to the planets, as the Torah states, “You shall be perfect with the L-rd your G-d” (Deuteronomy 18:13). This means that the more we perfect our relationship with the spiritual dimension, the more G-d is going to aid us in changing the natural course of events. This makes any action based on astrological predictions needless. It states clearly in the Talmud that “Ein Mazal LeYisroel” or “there is no Mazal for the Jewish people.” This simply means that the Jewish people as a whole were lifted above the Mazalot by virtue of their receiving the Torah.
 

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"Said Rabbi Simon: 'Every single blade of grass has a corresponding 'mazal' in the sky which hits it and tells it to grow." This statement is found in the Midrash Rabba, Bereshit 10:6.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 02:22:50 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 01:56:40 AM »
http://www.campsci.com/iguide/rambam.htm
Quote

When one studies the Talmud, one finds the same topic scattered around in a dozen different places. The Rambam's genius was to put everything together in a logical and systematic order, and decide which opinion to follow, so that everything makes sense without having to consult the original sources. It was written in a clear, precise and concise Hebrew so that even present day scholars from all over the world study each and every word very carefully and derive important halachos from every word he writes.

Yet, as he later admits, he made a very big mistake by not quoting the sources that he had taken these halachos from. For this he would be strongly criticized. Some felt that one had no right to publish halachic opinions without giving the names of the people who said them and without giving the sources upon which they are based. Others were afraid that this would cause many to stop studying the original sources and only study the h conclusions. This type of study would destroy Torah scholarship and turn people into ignoramuses. Time has proven this argument to be false! The Talmud was never neglected, and in fact it was strengthened.

The debate became very heated and many Torah scholars became involved. The greatest opposition however, was against another one of the Rambam's works called the Moreh Nevuchim. This was a work that gave the Jewish outlook on many questions in philosophy. It was written in Arabic and later translated into Hebrew. It contained many thoughts that seemed based or resembled Aristotelian philosophy, which was heavily studied during those times. He wrote it for the many people who studied this type of philosophy from non-Jewish sources causing great harm to the reader. This book was not aimed at every reader, but only for those people who studied this type of philosophy.

Yet, this sefer caused great opposition to the Rambam and the controversy raged on with a terrible vengeance. There were great men pro and other great men against. Amongst the strongest opponents were Rabbi Meir Halevi Abulafia (author of Yad Ramah) and the R'aved (Rebbe Avrohom ben Dovid of Posquires, known as R'aved the third) whose critical comments can now be found printed on the Mishna Torah's side.

After the Rambam's death (in 1204, at the age of 70), the criticism became more vocal, violent and tragic as some began putting a rabbinical ban (a cherem ) on anyone studying his philosophical works-the Moreh Nevuchim. Of course, bans are a two way street and all it did was add fuel to the fire. As usual, people of lesser stature soon became involved and denounced his works to the monks at the Christian Church. The Dominican monks now confiscated all the Rambam's seforim and burned them at an auto-da-fe in Mordpilias in the year 1234. Eight years later the French Monks followed in their footsteps and burned all those found in France in the public square of Paris.

By the way I like Rambam... I just don't agree with everything he says concerning everything...


« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 03:43:27 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 02:14:05 AM »
Here is a nice, concise, explanation of Mazel. This piece does not resort to any Zohar or Kabbalah and keeps to purely Talmudic sources...



http://www.marbitz.com/midrash/midrash_mazal.html

Midrash

Mazal: getting the straight goods


What exactly is mazal? How does it work? Most importantly: what effect does it have on our lives and aspirations?

Lets search Talmudic literature for some clarity.

We must carefully distinguish between two very different forces - both called "mazal" in Torah sources. One is mazal as an independent representative or guide attached to or associated with every human being, and the other is a blind, purely mechanical and natural influence (sometimes associated with astrology). Later we'll explore the possibility of a third "mazal" force.

Personal Mazal

Despite the general prohibition against carrying objects in public places on Shabbos, the Gemara does permit certain protective amulets (קמיעות) to be worn as long as they have already been proven effective (מומחה). Nevertheless, even among those known to help people, they remain forbidden as long as they aren't proven effective on animals as well:

"...But is there such a thing as (an amulet) that is proven for people but not for animals? Yes: perhaps a man, with his mazal, can be helped (by an amulet), while an animal, that has no mazal, cannot be helped." (Shabbos 53b)

"Mazal: a man's angel (מלאך) who represents him." (Rashi)

It would seem that the mere existence of this representative - which, by the way, does not seem to have any personal power - protects a person from damage even in circumstances that could kill an animal.

Similarly, a human being's personal mazal can protect him from violence as can be seen in Rashi's second approach to this Gemara:

"Why, concerning (causing damage to) people, does the Torah (Shemos 21:28) use the expression 'gore' (יגח), while concerning animals, it (ibid verse 35) uses 'push' (יגוף)? About a man, who has mazal, it writes 'gore' (but about an) animal, that has no mazal, it writes 'push'." (Bava Kama 2b)

"A man who has mazal: that he has the intelligence to protect himself...alternatively, he has mazal and thus it isn't so easy to kill him by simply being pushed with an animal's horn, unless he is gored directly and intentionally with the horn penetrating the body." (Rashi)

Besides being somehow responsible for his safety, a man's mazal can also represent him in the spiritual world. As an example, the Gemara tells us that the Jews, once they stood at Mt. Sinai and received the Torah, were able to shed something called "zuhama". But what about those who converted to Judaism only later? How do we explain the absence of "zuhama" even among converts and their descendants?

"Rav Acha the son of Rava said to Rav Ashi...'even though (converts) were not present at Mt. Sinai, their mazal was." Shabbos (146a)

"Concerning Jews one could always (explain their absence of zuhama) by observing that even if their bodies were not at Mt. Sinai [i.e, those who were not yet born], their souls were already bound in the bundle of the living. But one can't say that of converts [as, presumably, they are given new souls upon conversion]. So it must be that their mazal was there (at Mt. Sinai)." (Meharsha)

This mazal-representative can also subtly link us to spiritual events and influences that we might otherwise entirely miss:

"'And I, Daniel, myself saw this vision but the men with me did not see the vision, but a great fear fell upon them and they ran and hid.' (Daniel 10:7) ...Since (the others) did not see (the vision), why were they frightened? Even though they didn't see it, their mazal saw it. Ravina said, 'from here we can learn that a person who is frightened, even if he can't see anything, his mazal sees.'" (Megila 3a)

"Their mazal: each man's officer (שר) above." (Rashi)

Mazal's protective strength is affected by a person's own spiritual level:

"Rabbi Yossi the son of Rabbi Chanina said: 'this (that a wine wholesaler is not responsible for post-sale product spoilage) was only true if the wine was transferred to the buyer's jugs. But if it (spoiled while still) in the wholesaler's jugs, (the buyer) can claim 'here is your wine and here are your jugs [i.e., take them back and refund me]...But this conflicts with (the opinion of) Rav Chiya bar Yosef that wine (spoilage) is caused by its owner's mazal, as it says (Chabakuk 2:5) 'For wine betrays an arrogant man.'" (Bava Basra 98a)

"The arrogance of a man who prides himself with qualities that aren't his, causes his wine to betray him: people will think it is wine but it will be found to be nothing more than vinegar, measure for measure." (Rashi)

In other words, Rav Chiya bar Yosef's position is that the nature of mazal-influence can change - for better or for worse - according to a man's behavior and attitudes. It should be noted that Tosafos (Bava Basra 96b "ושמואל אמר") limits this effect to reasonably predictable phenomena, but maintains that a man's behavior cannot force his mazal to cause wholly miraculous changes in nature.

Mazal can be changed due to a person's physical circumstances. The Gemara relates a remarkable story about a messenger of the Angel of Death who accidentally "collected" the wrong woman. The angel was asked:

"How are you able to keep her here (before her time - rather than sending her back to earth to live out the rest of her alloted time)? (The Angel answered:) she was holding a hot poker in her hand while cleaning out her oven and it (fell) on her foot and she was burned, weakening her mazal." (Chagiga 5a)

Even the level of a person's confidence can affect the strength of his mazal:

"Someone who wants to embark on a journey and wants to know if he will return or not, should stand in a friend's house. If he sees his double shadow he should know that he will return. However, this isn't so: perhaps he will be upset and weaken his mazal." (Horiyos 12a)

"This isn't so: Because sometimes, even though there is no double shadow, he might return anyway. Nevertheless one should not perform this test because perhaps he will not see the shadow and become upset and his mazal will weaken and that might cause him not to return - and if he had not performed this test his mazal might never have weakened..." (Rashi)

"Because the Satan accuses (more vigorously) at a time of danger - like on a journey - and any little thing which can upset a person can (sufficiently) weaken his mazal (and provoke damage)." (ספר באר שבע)

Mazal as a blind, mechanical force of nature (astrology)

While God may certainly intervene at will, Chazal seemed to observe natural forces that, if left alone, would produce predictable effects on human beings and their environment. The Gemara (Brachos 59a), for instance, notes that the flood only began when God removed two stars from one constellation and only ended when He took two different stars from another constellation to fill the gap in the first. The implication is that the continued influence of the original stars, had they not been moved, would have ensured stable conditions.

Whether this influence is absolute or whether people - or at least Jews - can somehow escape its effects, would seem to be a debate between Rabbi Chanina (and others including Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi) and Rabbi Yochanan (along with a rather long list of like-minded sages including Rabbi Akiva) in the Gemara Shabbos (156a-156b).

"It was said: Rabbi Chanina says, 'Mazal causes wisdom, mazal causes wealth and mazal has an (inescapable) effect on Israel.' Rabbi Yochanan said, 'Mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel.'"
"Mazal causes wealth: because mazal is wisdom as was said (above) that (one born under the influence of) the sun will be bright and wise and (thus) mazal has an (inescapable) effect on Israel so that their prayers and charity cannot change it."
(Rashi)

"Mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel: That through prayer and merits, mazal can be changed for the good." (Rashi)

The Gemara offers no obvious resolution to this debate. And even according to Rabbi Yochanan (who taught that the effects of mazal can be avoided), there are still limits to our self-determination:

"Rava said: '(maintaining) life, (and acquiring) children and sustenance do not depend on (a person's) merits but on his mazal..." (Moed Katan 28a)

"...That which the Gemara in Shabbos says 'mazal does not have an (inescapable) effect on Israel' (can be explained by saying) that sometimes (mazal) can change... (through some remarkable merit) but in a case like that of Rabbi Elazer ben Padas (Taanis 25a) it might not change at all..." (Tosafos אלא במזלא)

The mazal of nature also seems bound to natural cycles (This would also seem to be as clear an indication as any other that "mazal" has no power or free choice of its own, but is purely unconscious and mechanical.):

"Why should one not (have blood drawn) on Tuesdays? Because (the constellation) 'maadim' is in (the part of the sky dominated by) 'zavui'. (Why should that be a factor, after all) 'maadim is also in 'zavui' on Fridays (and we do have blood drawn then)? Since so many people ignore that risk, (we can apply the verse) 'God protects fools'(Tehilim 116:6)" (Shabbos 129b)

"Mazal maadim controls violence, plague and catastrophes and astrological confluences (involving maadim) invite demonic interference..." (Rashi)

And not only weekly cycles...

"Rav Papa said: Therefore, a Jew who faces legal proceedings involving a non-Jew should delay (any court appearance until after) the month of Av because his mazal is weak..." (Ta'anis 29b)

"As was mentioned previously: 'moral debts (naturally) find themselves paid up on a day of moral debt.'" (Tosafos)

Additionally, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi associated the influence of mazal with the day of a man's birth while Rabbi Chanina considered his birth-hour more decisive (Shabbos 156a).

The Rambam

Against this background let's take a look at the Rambam:

"In the days of Enosh humans made a great mistake and the generation's wise men gave foolish advice - and Enosh was among those in error. This was their error: they said 'since God created these stars and constellations to guide the world and (He) placed them in the heavens and honored them and they serve those who serve before Him, it is fit to praise and exalt and honor the stars themselves'." (משנה תורה פ"א עכו"ם ה"א)

The Rambam here possibly bases himself on passages in Chazal like Brachos 59a (which describes the stars' role in the onset and completion of the flood). He clearly identifies "guiding the world" as one of the stars' functions. However, we must be careful not to exaggerate his position.

Here's what he wrote near the end of the laws of idolatry:

"And anyone who acts in response to astrology and times his activities or journeys according to times determined by those who examine the stars, receives lashes..."
(משנה תורה פי"א עכו"ם הל' ט)

In adding further context to the various prohibitions of the chapter, Rambam concludes:

"And these things are all lies and falsehood which were used by early idolaters to mislead nations thereby to follow their (idolatrous) paths. And it isn't appropriate for Israel - who are a wise people - to be drawn after such foolishness and to even consider that there is any benefit to (these activities)...And anyone who believes these things or anything like them and thinks in his heart that they are true and wise except that the Torah forbids them, is certainly ranked among the fools and idiots..." (משנה תורה פי"א עכו"ם הל' ט"ז)

So, while the Rambam does accept that stars do exert some influence on nature, he clearly rejects any connection between them and the conduct of human society. This distinction is made much more clearly in Rambam's letter to the rabbis of Marseilles in which, while debunking the authenticity of astrology, he outlines the position common to all "philosophers":

"The general principle which they will all espouse is that all events involving people, animals, minerals or trees are all random. But the elements and all that is lifeless in the entire (physical) world all came to be through the the power of the constellations and stars which essentially came from God."

(see http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/mahshevt/mekorot/igeret-2.htm)

Rambam then writes that Torah belief differs with the philosophers only in that human events are not random, but are the result of Divine providence. They would all agree, however, that the stars have no influence on human life.

Now this most certainly seems to fly in the face of many of the quotations from Chazal we've referenced above. The Rambam was well aware of this problem and addressed it towards the end of his letter to Marseilles:

"Our opinion on this has always been that all astrology is false (in the eyes of) all men of science. And I know that it is possible you will search and find individual opinions among our rabbis, the sages of Truth of blessed memory, in the Talmud and Mishna and Midrash, that their words appear to show that the stars have such and such an influence at the moment of a man's birth. Do not consider this a problem, for (just as) it isn't appropriate to abandon practical halacha to chase after (obscure) challenges and responses. So too, it is not appropriate for a man to leave intelligent matters whose proofs have already been confirmed, and shake them from his sleeves to accept instead the words of one minority opinion from among the sages...for it is possible that (those words which seemed to validate astrology) were really only meant as a hint to some profound (Torah truth)."

The Third "Mazal"

Rabbi Meir, in the final Mishna of mesechte Kiddushin, teaches that a person should make every reasonable effort to find success in a trade...

"...and then pray to the One to Whom belongs all wealth and to Whom belongs all property. For there is no trade in which is not found both poverty and wealth, for poverty does not come from (a man's) trade and wealth does not come from (a man's) trade. Rather, everything flows from (a man's) merit (זכותו)."
 
Tosafos (Kiddushin 82a), while commenting on the Mishna, wrote

"Rather, everything flows from (a man's) merit: meaning, according to his mazal, for 'children, life and provisions do not depend on merit, but on mazal'."

But why, wondered the Tiferes Yisrael (echoing questions of the Tosafos Yom Tov), would Tosafos attribute wealth to mazal rather than merit (besides the fact that mazal and merit are quite distinct from each other): if mazal determines a man's financial fate, then why bother praying?

To this, the Tiferes Yisrael offers a creative solution. The term used by the Mishna (זכותו) doesn't actually mean "merit", but rather, its more common Talmudic translation: "possession" or "rights" (example: "<יש לו זכות בו"). In this case, the Mishna means to teach us that, besides prayer, our financial success or failure largely depends on the peculiar combination of circumstances into which God decreed each of us be born (that which can truly be said to be "ours"). After all, so much of a person's success does depend on his background and social standing. So, for instance, influences like one's inborn nature, family, environment, diet and education all play significant roles in his future chances at success.

This, of course, has nothing to do with any astrological influences (Tiferes Yisrael firmly follows the Rambam's approach), but is a direct result of God's specific plan for each human being. And, as did Tosafos, it is therefore quite reasonable to characterize it as mazal.

The Bottom Line

While it seems clear that our connection to the spiritual world is sometimes characterized by Chazal as "mazal", this knowledge would seem to have few, if any, practical applications - beyond the general need to care for our own physical safety and spiritual wellbeing.

It is certainly necessary to steadfastly avoid astrological advice - whether because Torah law forbids it or, according to Rambam, because common sense should guide us away from foolishness. Either way, in our search for financial success, there would seem to be very little room in Judaism for reliance on anything besides trust in God and hard work (in that order).

And we can take comfort in the knowledge that a great many of the crucial elements which will determine our success were given to us by our all-knowing and most-kind God.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 02:47:12 AM »
Regarding that last article I posted I would like to add my own personal experiences...

My Mazal regarding Parnassah {Livelyhood/Sustenance} is very, very good. I have been employed ever since I was 14 years old. I have worked for some of the biggest technology companies in the world, and I am still moving up.

The fact that I am working in the HOTBED of technological development {Silicon Valley} after dreaming about it many years growing up on the East coast {Connecticut} and despite the fact that I did not complete my college education I am constantly swamped with calls from 'Head-Hunters' who want me to leave the company I am working for and are offering more money than I currently am making. I just turned down a headhunter who wanted to meet with me about a job opportunity.

This ties in with my entire process of Teshuva. I came back to Judaism after several tragedies in my life. One of these was losing my job, the job which moved me to north California. Right after finding that I lived only a couple miles from a synagogue and hooking up with a great Orthodox Rabbi I got a call from a company which had made me an offer several years before {which I turned down for a better offer at that time}. The fact that this company still wanted me even though I had turned them down in the past was amazing, that they were offering more than I wanted was even more encouraging.

I found that once I started observing Shabbat, not doing any work {and working on eliminating every Melacha} that my job opportunities grew. I have not worked a single Shabbat for almost 10 years now even though some at my company work on weekends. They have never asked, and they know better than to ask me to come in on Shabbat.

I spoke with my mother recently. My mom is not particularly religious and often she strikes me as anti-religious {due to her perception of Judaism as being patriarchal}. When I was explaining to her that I THANK HASHEM every day for my Parnassah she couldn't understand why. She said that because I was born to two intelligent Jews that my DNA predisposed me to being intelligent. That due to the circumstances of my birth and the education my parents gave me that it was only logical that I would be a computer software engineer in much demand.

I explained to my mother that all those variables, my mother and father, the place that I am born, the decade I was born in, and so many other variables including my name were out of my control. All of these things I was given without even deserving it. How can I not be thankful for my incredible Livelyhood provided by Hashem?


Baruch Hashem
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 03:06:41 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 02:50:24 AM »
http://www.dailyhalacha.com/m/halacha.aspx?id=2077

Birkat Kohanim and the Blessing of Parnasa

Each day, the Kohanim deliver the “Birkat Kohanim” (priestly blessing) to the congregation. This Beracha contains fifteen words, and the holy books teach that the first fourteen words correspond to the fourteen joints on the human hand. Each of a person’s four large fingers contains three joints, and the thumb has two joints, for a total of fourteen. (This is why the Hebrew word for hand is “Yad,” which has the numerical value of fourteen.) The fifteenth word of the blessing, “Shalom” (“peace”), corresponds to the palm of the hand. Peace is akin to a palm because it is, as the Mishna describes it, the “receptacle” that contains peace. Without the palm, the hand is unable to hold anything; whatever one receives would slip through the fingers. Peace corresponds to the palm because it is a prerequisite for receiving G-d’s material blessings.

Incidentally, this is why it is common across much of the world to express friendship, camaraderie, and cordiality with a handshake. The two people connect their palms to one another and share greetings. The palm is the symbol of peace, and the joining of palms thus represents a peaceful, congenial relationship.

Peace is also necessary as a means of eliminating the harmful spiritual forces that interfere with the “Shefa” (bounty) that comes down from heavens. Often, the blessing of Parnasa (livelihood) will descend from the heavens, but on its way down it is blocked by destructive angels, the angels that prosecute against us, and other harmful spiritual forces. The presence of peace clears the air, so-to-speak, allowing the blessing to descend from the heavens without interference.

These spiritual forces also threaten to sabotage our prayers. Our prayers are ineffective if they do not reach their intended destination – the heavenly throne. Needless to say, there is quite a distance that the Tefilot must travel from our mouths to G-d’s throne in the highest spheres of the heavens. When a guest leaves his host’s home, there is a Misva for the host to escort him (“Levaya”) out; rather than just waive and say “Good bye,” he should walk four steps with the guest outside, and this has the effect of protecting the guest during his trip his home. All the more so, our prayers, which must travel a vast distance to their destination, and are threatened by untold numbers of harmful forces, require an “escort” for protection.

The holy books say that the “escort” of our prayers is Birkat Kohanim, which we recite immediately after Birkat Ha’Torah right at the beginning of the morning prayer services. These verses were not chosen randomly. Rather, they were chosen because they serve to “escort” our prayers along their journey to the heavens. Indeed, the Zohar writes that there are four divine Names embedded within the text of Birkat Kohanim, and they achieve four different goals: the acceptance of our prayers, Parnasa, adequate clothing, and miracles.

The text of Birkat Kohanim alludes to its function as an “escort” to our prayers. Each of the three verses of Birkat Kohanim begins with the letter “Yod” (“Yevarechecha,” “Ya’er,” “Yisa”). The numerical value of the letter “Yod” is ten, and thus the combined numerical value of these three letters is thirty, which is represented by the letter “Lamed.” There are six blessings in Birkat Kohanim (“Yevarechecha,” “Ve’yishmerecha,” “Ya’er,” “Viy’huneka,” “Yisa,” “Ve’yasem Lecha Shalom”), and the number six is represented by the letter “Vav.” The fifteen words of Birkat Kohanim are represented by the letters “Yod”-“Heh.” These four letters (“Lamed,” “Vav,” “Yod,” “Heh”) spell the word “Levaya” – “escort” – alluding to this special power of Birkat Kohanim to escort and protect our prayers as they make their way to the heavens.

The final word of Birkat Kohanim, as mentioned, is “Shalom,” because that is the key that opens the doors for the “Shefa” to rain down upon us. Birkat Kohanim is effective in bringing our prayers to the heavens, but peace is indispensable for allowing the blessings to come down from the heavens to us. The priestly blessing therefore concludes with this word, to emphasize the critical importance of “Shalom” in enabling our prayers to have the desired effect of bringing the heavenly blessings down to earth.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Jewish Astrology? Some Jewish sources.
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 03:01:58 AM »
While this is not concerning astrology, I would like to post the prayer for Parnasa:

http://www.darchenoam.org/ethics/tefillot/tef_parnasa.htm



G-d, who prepares sustenance and clothing for every creature
and sends each their livelihood,
please grant me a proper livelihood.
Please sustain me,
all the members of my household,
and all of Israel
with a good and respectable livelihood,
calmly and without pain,
in legitimate and permissible, not prohibited ways,
with honor and not with disgrace.
It should be a livelihood without shame or disgrace,
a livelihood where I will not need the gift of flesh and blood,
but only Your full and wide Hand.
It should be a livelihood where I can be involved in
Your Holy, Pure, and Perfect Torah.
Prepare my food and that of my family and all of our needs
before we need them
so that my heart should be free without any bother
to be involved in the words of your Torah,
to keep Your commandments, and
to sit in peace on my table with dignity
with all of the members of my household.
I should not need to look to anyone else's table.
I should not need to become indebted to any man.
The yoke of no man should be upon me,
only the yoke of Your Kingdom,
in order to serve You with a complete heart.
Our garments should be worn with dignity and not with shame.
Save us from poverty, destitution, and lowliness.
Allow us to merit inviting guests,
to do acts of kindness to every man.
Give me the wherewithal to give charity to those that deserve it
and not stumble upon improper recipients.
Amen
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14