Author Topic: I Will Be Leaving JTF Permanently (Read 10038 times)

Allen-T · « **on:** June 28, 2007, 11:00:42 AM »

Hello Fellow JTFers,
There has been some trouble recently. I am not going to go into detail here, but what I will say here is that there are issues between myself and the leadership that cannot be resolved. I will be making a video explaining the whole situation shortly. This is a very sad day. Shalom. Allen-T

judeanoncapta · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2007, 11:32:50 AM »

Sorry to hear that, Allen-t. I always thought you were a decent guy. I'm sorry that things couldn't be worked out. This is a sad day.

mord · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2007, 11:43:15 AM »

very sad

Allen-T · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:01:20 PM »

There are no personal issues between myself and leadership, only religious.

judeanoncapta · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:18:19 PM »

Quote from: Allen-T on June 28, 2007, 12:01:20 PM

There are no personal issues between myself and leadership, only religious.

Well, religious issues generally cannot be worked out.

If you beleive that God wants you do A and I beleive that God wants me not to do A or have any connection with some one who does A, that can generally not be worked out.

Religious issues are serious ones. Not to be taken lightly.

No one can be convinced, cajoled or romanced into doing something they beleive to be against G-d's will. I understand that and I'm sure you do as well.

I have an inkling as to what this is about because of the thread you started that jimmy yanked off the forum. I bear you no ill will, Allen-t. And I already told you that I think you are a good guy. I understand why you will not budge because you beleive what you do is God's will. I hope that you don't bear us ill will and understand that we will not budge because of what we beleive God's will is.

Allen-T · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:32:29 PM »

Quote from: judeanoncapta on June 28, 2007, 12:18:19 PM

Quote from: Allen-T on June 28, 2007, 12:01:20 PM
There are no personal issues between myself and leadership, only religious.

Well, religious issues generally cannot be worked out.

If you beleive that G-d wants you do A and I beleive that G-d wants me not to do A or have any connection with some one who does A, that can generally not be worked out.

Religious issues are serious ones. Not to be taken lightly.

No one can be convinced, cajoled or romanced into doing something they beleive to be against G-d's will. I understand that and I'm sure you do as well.

I have an inkling as to what this is about because of the thread you started that jimmy yanked off the forum. I bear you no ill will, Allen-t. And I already told you that I think you are a good guy. I understand why you will not budge because you beleive what you do is G-d's will. I hope that you don't bear us ill will and understand that we will not budge because of what we beleive G-d's will is.

Apart from one vicious liar I have no bad feelings towards anybody. There is nothing to have ill will about. Things cannot be worked out. I have nothing but good feelings towards everybody, but sadness about the intrinsic incompatability. Thanks.

MasterWolf1 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:35:21 PM »

Allen this is sad news, I hope what ever happened can be fixed cause you really are a very essential part of this forum. I would hate to see you leave.

judeanoncapta · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:39:13 PM »

Quote from: Allen-T on June 28, 2007, 12:32:29 PM

Quote from: judeanoncapta on June 28, 2007, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: Allen-T on June 28, 2007, 12:01:20 PM
There are no personal issues between myself and leadership, only religious.

Well, religious issues generally cannot be worked out.

If you beleive that G-d wants you do A and I beleive that G-d wants me not to do A or have any connection with some one who does A, that can generally not be worked out.

Religious issues are serious ones. Not to be taken lightly.

No one can be convinced, cajoled or romanced into doing something they beleive to be against G-d's will. I understand that and I'm sure you do as well.

I have an inkling as to what this is about because of the thread you started that jimmy yanked off the forum. I bear you no ill will, Allen-t. And I already told you that I think you are a good guy. I understand why you will not budge because you beleive what you do is G-d's will. I hope that you don't bear us ill will and understand that we will not budge because of what we beleive G-d's will is.

Apart from one vicious liar I have no bad feelings towards anybody. There is nothing to have ill will about. Things cannot be worked out. I have nothing but good feelings towards everybody, but sadness about the intrinsic incompatability. Thanks.

You took the words right out of my mouth, Allen-t.
Good luck.
If you're leaving the forum completely and you ever want to correspond in any way, my account on youtube is also judeanoncapta.
Good luck and be well.

mord · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2007, 12:39:52 PM »

Quote from: MasterWolf1 on June 28, 2007, 12:35:21 PM

Allen this is sad news, I hope what ever happened can be fixed cause you really are a very essential part of this forum. I would hate to see you leave.

True

Allen-T · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:01:04 PM »

I will continue to be available on the Youtube channels.

MasterWolf1 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:10:21 PM »

Thats great but you are also very valuable on the forum. I can not force anyone to do anything but think and reconcider.

TheCoon · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:14:24 PM »

You'll be missed, and I await the reasons for how this all occurred.

Nic Brookes · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:48:21 PM »

Allen, I have utmost respect for you. This may harm the Jew/Christian relationship JTF boasts about...

Allen-T · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2007, 01:59:28 PM »

Quote from: Nic Brookes on June 28, 2007, 01:48:21 PM

Allen, I have utmost respect for you. This may harm the Jew/Christian relationship JTF boasts about...

Each must stand for what they believe and accept the outcome. Personal feelings cannot change this. Common enemies can't change this. I believe in something that Torah Judaism defines as attempted murder and/or murder, depending on the outcome. So I should be killed. Jdl4ever said so, in fact he outright prophesied I would physically try to kill you all once our common enemies were defeated.

Allen-T · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:01:51 PM »

I am not going to say anything else about this here. I will, as I said be preparing a video explaining some things.

Zionist Revolutionary · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:03:30 PM »

Sorry. A shame that you are leaving.

TheCoon · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:24:32 PM »

This is coming to a head now. We need to work out the Christian/Jewish divisions now before they cause any more problems. We all have differences of opinion and they need to be respected. If someone said another JTF member should be killed and that is tolerated then I want no part of JTF either.

Allen-T, you have my full support in this matter. You've proven that you do excellent work and JTF truly needs you.

Lisa · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:33:28 PM »

Thunderbolt, no one has called for any JTF member to be killed.

TheCoon · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:40:04 PM »

Quote from: Allen-T on June 28, 2007, 01:59:28 PM

Quote from: Nic Brookes on June 28, 2007, 01:48:21 PM
Allen, I have utmost respect for you. This may harm the Jew/Christian relationship JTF boasts about...

Each must stand for what they believe and accept the outcome. Personal feelings cannot change this. Common enemies can't change this. I believe in something that Torah Judaism defines as attempted murder and/or murder, depending on the outcome. So I should be killed. Jdl4ever said so, in fact he outright prophesied I would physically try to kill you all once our common enemies were defeated.

Lisa, perhaps I read wrong in the bolded/italicized statement.

I'm just thoroughly sickened because Chaim sets such an amazing example of interfaith relations between right-wing Jews and Christians and we can't for the lives of ourselves act civil.

Dan · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2007, 03:16:49 PM »

I sorry to hear about this...
Allen you are one of the best posters and have worked extremely hard to make JTF forum so successful.
Thanks for all you did, but please reconsider...

Nic Brookes · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2007, 03:50:20 PM »

He will probably not reconsider. If there is going to be discriminations against Christians, I will also leave.

cosmokramer · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:01:35 PM »

If anybody is discriminating against christians, They shoule be banned.

mord · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:03:28 PM »

Quote from: cosmokramer on June 28, 2007, 04:01:35 PM

If anybody is discriminating against christians, They shoule be banned.

Agreed

Until Shiloh Comes · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:04:25 PM »

Friends/Christians, good day to you all.

Rest assured Chaim will personally address this issue and your concerns on the next ASK JTF.

The Jewish Task Force excludes no one, and works with everyone, and we love and respect our Christian brothers/sisters despite the theological differences. The long history of Chaim's work in the JDL, JTF, and the long record of his public statements about right-wing Bible believing Christians only underscores this point.

Allen-T's decision was made over a discussion in the hidden Admins/Mods section of the board. Be certain that I as a non-Jew, and with a family of devout Christians, would never allow the disrespect or slander of our Christian brethren without confronting it. Allen-T's claims, in my opinion, are based on comments which were taken completely out of context, and simply do not represent the true nature of the exchange. He has made an interpretation that virtually none of the other mods/admins seem to agree with, and our mods/admins are both Jewish and Gentile.

Sit tight, and the truth will come to light. I will be temporarily locking this thread until Chaim Ben Pesach is notified of these events.

With kindest regards, and awaiting Shiloh,
Christopher

jsullivan · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2007, 04:53:43 PM »

Neither Chaim nor myself can deal with this issue tonight because we have to meet with some important people.

However, no one at any time threatened to harm any JTF member. That simply is not true.

Allen-T wrote on the moderators' site that the number one priority in his life is to preach Christianity to everyone, including Jews. He made it clear that he does not do this while he is on the JTF forum (which is true). But when he is not on the JTF forum, he does missionize to anyone who will listen, including Jews.

jdl4ever then explained that according to Torah Jewish law, someone who convinces a Jew to leave the Jewish faith is in effect murdering that Jew spiritually. jdl4ever added that he could not work with an avowed missionary. And finally, jdl4ever said that Torah Jewish law requires Jews to fight missionary activity even through the use of violence if necessary.

jdl4ever NEVER threatened Allen-T or anyone else, and even clarified that his reiteration of Jewish law was NOT intended as a threat.

But Allen-T said that he could not work with people who felt this way about Christian missionaries.

Chaim also wrote a long letter to Allen-T explaining to him why there should not be missionary activity among Jews and we will reprint that letter here, G-d willing.

JTF DOES want to work with Christians and all decent people, but JTF will NOT work with avowed missionaries. If this means that we have to lose some of our supporters, then it is unfortunate but this is a matter of principle for JTF.

Allen-T has been a great asset to our cause and his resignation is very unfortunate.

On a personal note, although I have never met Allen-T, I think very highly of him and consider him to be a good friend. He will be sorely missed.

If in the future, Allen-T decides that Chaim is right in claiming that missionary activity among Jews violates Biblical law, then Allen-T will always be welcome to return to our ranks.