Hamas: Better ALL die than ever recognize Israel (in any border)!

[Shlomo]

Look at these animals... Isn't it obvious? Kahane was right.
Friday, September 29, 2006
Hamas: Better all die than ever recognize Israel (in any border)
By Reuters 29 September 2006
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/769095.html

Hamas rally in Gaza draws tens of thousands, denounces Israel

Tens of thousands of Hamas supporters held a peaceful rally in Gaza on Friday to denounce the state of Israel and declare that they would never recognize its right to exist.

"We ask God to punish the so-called Israel and the allies of Israel and to punish those who recognize Israel and those who called on us to recognize Israel," Hamas lawmaker Mushir al-Masri told the crowd that thronged the Jabalya refugee camp.

"We vow to God that we will never recognise Israel even if we would be all killed," Masri told the cheering audience of men, women and children, many of whom were wearing green Hamas baseball caps and held aloft Hamas banners.

Masri, a popular young lawmaker, also aimed criticism at Fatah, a rival movement headed by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, saying it was trying to pressure Hamas, which now runs the Palestinian government, into recognizing Israel.

"Those people are demanding us openly to recognize the occupation and that will never happen," Masri said.

Hamas and Fatah have held talks in recent weeks over the possibility of forming a unity government, but those negotiations now appear to have almost completely broken down.

"The protest aims to stress our rejection to recognize the legitimacy of the occupation," Masri said, referring to what Hamas views as Israel's occupation of all historic Palestine.

Hamas, which is regarded as a terrorist organization by the United States, European Union and Israel, has struggled to run the government since it came to power in March because of financial sanctions imposed by the West against it.

Hamas came to power after winning elections in January.

Most of the Palestinian government's 170,000 employees, including tens of thousands of security staff, have largely gone unpaid for the past seven months.

It was hoped that the formation of a unity government with the more moderate Fatah movement might have led to the lifting of at least some of the restrictions.

In recent weeks, protests have been held against Hamas's government throughout the West Bank and Gaza, with teachers, doctors and other essential workers going on strike to demand the payment of their salaries.

"The protest is against the siege and against the attempts by some to carry out a coup against the government," Masri said, again apparently referring to pressure from Fatah.

Loud speakers played songs supporting Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, a senior Hamas figure, during the rally and Masri vowed that Hamas's administration would go on governing no matter how much pressure was applied to it.

"This government and the leadership of Hamas of the Palestinian people will continue throughout its legal term, for four years," Masri said.

[El Cabong!]

So let them not recognize Israel. It makes no difference if they do or not, but they will recognize the bombs  and rockets Israel will rain down on their scummy asses. When the palestinians hear chopper blades, it's not the rush hour traffic patrol.

[Hail Columbia]

How about dropping neutron bombs on the Gaza Strip?  It ought to be safe to do, since there are no Jews left.

[Shlomo]

The VERY LEAST they could do is expel all those arabs out of Israel! Just offer the idiots money to leave... that's the JTF way.

[TheCoon]

How about dropping neutron bombs on the Gaza Strip?  It ought to be safe to do, since there are no Jews left.

Nah, I'd rather prefer biological weapons or poison gas. They don't deserve to die quickly.

[davkakach]

The VERY LEAST they could do is expel all those arabs out of Israel! Just offer the idiots money to leave... that's the JTF way.

Offering money is only part 1.

Part 2, which is very important, and which you omitted is,
"If they refuse the money, we will throw them out without
a penny of compensation."

With or without money, they must go.  Or die resisting.

With JTF in power, the Arabs will know about part 2, so
they will naturally opt for part 1.  Bloodshed will be unlikely.
Arabs are cowardly by nature.

[TheCoon]

The first thing a Kahanist gov't should do is take every arab-muslim MP in the knesset and shoot them dead.

[Shlomo]

Nah, I'd rather prefer biological weapons or poison gas. They don't deserve to die quickly.

While I completely share in your frustration, I have to admit that we should hate them, we should stop them, and we should kill them to defend ourselves when neccessary... BUT we should never enjoy the termination of another human being. Kill them? Ok. But not torture. We are more humane than that and those are G-d's creations even if they are evil piles of excrement. Each one is a soul that is very real, very lost, and yes, those people are evil and discusting... but we aren't animals. We don't torture or do the things we hate them for... we are more human than that.

When the egyptians were killed at the Red Sea... the Jews mourned for the loss of life even knowing the Egyptains chasing them had to die becuase of their utter crulty and arrogance. They knew there wasn't going to be a 'peace treaty'. They were so Holy... they saw reality. They knew that each person is an entire universe of it's own. We hate that we have to do this... but we do it only because it's neccessary and we are commanded to do it from G-d.

[davkakach]

When the egyptians were killed at the Red Sea... the Jews mourned for the loss of life even knowing the Egyptains chasing them had to die becuase of their utter crulty and arrogance. They knew there wasn't going to be a 'peace treaty'. They were so Holy... they saw reality. They knew that each person is an entire universe of it's own. We hate that we have to do this... but we do it only because it's neccessary and we are commanded to do it from G-d.

Not accurate.  It was G-d and his angels who mourned the dead, evil Egyptians, because just like everyone else, they were G-d's children.  But the people of Israel sang the praises of G-d who liberated them (in accordance with G-d's expectation and Moses' command/request), and each Jew who had a dog would approach a corpse of an Egyptian and tell his dog, "Eat the hand that enslaved me."

Compassion and mourning for the evil are G-d's job.  Our job is to comply with G-d's commands and destroy and eliminate evil from this world, which was created to be only good, and by doing so not only do we benefit the rest of creation but we also benefit the evil person, because we prevent him from adding more sins to his soul, which is already in deep trouble, and thus reduce what could have been a much harsher punishment in the hereafter.

[Shlomo]

When the egyptians were killed at the Red Sea... the Jews mourned for the loss of life even knowing the Egyptains chasing them had to die becuase of their utter crulty and arrogance. They knew there wasn't going to be a 'peace treaty'. They were so Holy... they saw reality. They knew that each person is an entire universe of it's own. We hate that we have to do this... but we do it only because it's neccessary and we are commanded to do it from G-d.

Not accurate.  It was G-d and his angels who mourned the dead, evil Egyptians, because just like everyone else, they were G-d's children.  But the people of Israel sang the praises of G-d who liberated them (in accordance with G-d's expectation and Moses' command/request), and each Jew who had a dog would approach a corpse of an Egyptian and tell his dog, "Eat the hand that enslaved me."

Compassion and mourning for the evil are G-d's job.  Our job is to comply with G-d's commands and destroy and eliminate evil from this world, which was created to be only good, and by doing so not only do we benefit the rest of creation but we also benefit the evil person, because we prevent him from adding more sins to his soul, which is already in deep trouble, and thus reduce what could have been a much harsher punishment in the hereafter.

I remember the teaching about the mourning from one of the Rabbis here so I'm sure he had a reason he taught this message - being that he is very wise and studied. I agree that we are commanded to hate amalek and that we end the suffering of and from the wicked. My point is that we are above torturing people.

[davkakach]

My point is that we are above torturing people.

I am not a learned rabbi, but I believe that if torturing enemies
and making their torture public knowledge is provably effective
in preventing those enemies from attacking us, then this torture
is justifiable, IMHO.

Instead of one telling oneself or others what he is above, I think
it is better that one reminds oneself what he is below---and that
is G-d and his commandments---so as to minimize the chances of
apparent conflicts and contradictions between what we perceive
to be moral, and what divine justice and moral code actually are.

[Shlomo]

I think utterly destroying them with a neutron bomb would send the message with enough clarity. 

Now if some terrorist is holding information that could save lives, then I would not disagree with torture... but that's not toture for torture's sake.

[davkakach]

I think utterly destroying them with a neutron bomb would send the message with enough clarity.

Actually, you're right, and I didn't consider this.  We live in an age when we don't have
to co-exist with evil, when we have the capability to destroy evil without compromises,
yet we choose to accept evil's existence---in effect, becoming accomplices to evil.  For
this, we deserve to be punished.  If Moses possessed a WMD, he would have used it
against Amalek without blinking an eye.

[Shlomo]

I think utterly destroying them with a neutron bomb would send the message with enough clarity.

Actually, you're right, and I didn't consider this.  We live in an age when we don't have
to co-exist with evil, when we have the capability to destroy evil without compromises,
yet we choose to accept evil's existence---in effect, becoming accomplices to evil.  For
this, we deserve to be punished.  If Moses possessed a WMD, he would have used it
against Amalek without blinking an eye.

That is EXACTLY what I've said for so many years. We are commanded to do it. It is our duty.

Some people argue and say killing is wrong. That's where I agree. So you kill the people who are obviously going to kill lots of other people - not out of vengence but out of neccessity. Then the killing stops. Many times over - less people die and suffer and the only ones that did die were evil. It's really the most humane thing to do but people don't like looking at that... because the job is a terrible one and procrastination is easier - but costs many more lives.

Not a single person yet has to prove that obvious logic wrong. It's Torah.

[davkakach]

I couldn't put it better myself.