AN OPEN LETTER TO SHLOMO and my JTF friends....

[Cyberella]

.

When I visited JTF today I found the following post on my thread, 'How to help Mitt win':
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,64175.25.html




"Shlomo
Administrator
Ultimate JTFer

Re: HOW TO EXPOSE OBAMA AND HELP MITT WIN

« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2012, 07:32:31 PM »

The "bumping" of a post to publicize your own website in a post with all bold letters or all caps where you make it sound like you are trying to recruit our members (especially after Chaim's post) is nothing short of spam.

I had to do an internet search for what "Bttt" meant and it stands for putting a post "Back to the top". I really wish that instead of trying to split yourself off for your own self promotion, that you would help the cause a little more and join in with us - which would be much more effective. Sadly, you did this last election too, and it's irritating to say the least.

I'm locking this thread."

__________________________




You know, friends, it is indeed sad when an effort such as mine that has been put forth  to help us win the election  is met with suspicion and hostility here.

I am a 'master JTF' poster with over 1100 posts. Many of my posts here contained valuable information and have been made 'sticky'.  Some of you have asked me to write for your blogs.
I thought I was accepted here, but I'm being treated like an interloper.

This election is the most important one of our lifetime. If America, as we know it, is to survive we must defeat the Marxist/Muslim usurper.
I am very fearful that we may lose this election. I've cried over this many times and I pray about it daily.
We must do everything in our power to defeat Obama. We must work together. Everything helps.


In the first place, 'The Obama File' is not my website.
It is the website of a retired AF officer who lives in Boston, and who has kept a massive file on Obama for five years.
It is not a hate site, but a massive file with all information linked back to the facts about Obama via his speeches, news articles and matters of record.
It is so good that The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials
http://theobamafile.com/LibraryOfCongress.html

'The Obama File' receives almost 2,000 hits per day- and I guarantee anyone venturing there will be drawn in by its clever graphics and layout.
By referring 'The Obama File' to forums/blogs on Topix and other places, we can reach thousands of the uninformed.


bttt is an accepted action on most forums- as is bold type. That's just the way I write.

You bet I'm trying to recruit JTF members to help me get the word out. I'll do anything to help win this election.
It's sad that you think I'm in this for 'self promotion'. Just sad.


I explained to Chaim that I thought he did wonderful work with the videos and that I watch them and promote them to all my contacts and forums.
I explained that I was offering another way, in addition to the videos and other good things done here, to get the word out to uninformed voters.
He accepted that.

As I said, it's just very sad.
Sad that we can't work together to defeat Obama without egos getting in the way.





.

[muman613]

I think that all bold is a form of shouting, that is what it originally represented in the forum world and to this day it represents shouting. Sometimes things should be shouted, and thus I use bold only to make a point, to draw attention to an idea. But one should not resort to bold font for more than just expressing a point which should be emphasized. I object to entire posts written in bold font.

There are times to use various styles in forum communication. We all may have developed different internet styles but I agree that certain standards should be followed or else anarchy prevails. Just as most of us agree to stop at a red light because we realize that if we don't and everyone just drives through an intersection, that much damage would ensue.

I also don't think that threads should constantly be bumped to the top just to keep it seen at the top again. If the topic is enough of an interest to those who decide such matters, then it should be made sticky for some duration. To my best recollection this has been how this forum has traditionally worked, and I am comfortable with the current customs of this great forum.

All those who do the work of keeping our country and the world a good place deserve a reward, and this reward may not come in this world. We must be prepared to face the future without any recognition for our contribution to the greater good of our cause. We all need to remove our egos and share the ideas which can be utilized by all of us, to motivate us to move the envelope, for the better good, for the cause of righteousness and the name of our G-d.

I appreciate this posters desire to get the word out on the current fraud who sits in the white house. The more the word gets out the more chance we have of actually changing things. I do have faith in the greater good of the majority of our country. I cannot believe that the majority would not see that this country is heading toward financial and moral doom. We must be amiable and utilize every ounce of our G-d Given traits to persuade those around us of the option of turning this country around, from the socialist and fascist policies of the Obama administration. We can restore hope to the American dream.... We must work together.

I know that egos are difficult to control. I am sorry if it seems that Shomo acted arbitrarily. Do not be discouraged by this apparent set-back. I too have felt various feelings about policies of JTF and yet I still contribute and feel a part of the JTF family. I hope you too can allow this to pass...

[mord]

Anything that can help beat Hussein is important.I use bold to emphasis, to scream i use caps .Sometimes  caps also appear in writing when i forgot to change to regular

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Please avoid writing in all bold.   

[nessuno]

I know that egos are difficult to control. I am sorry if it seems that Shomo acted arbitrarily. Do not be discouraged by this apparent set-back. I too have felt various feelings about policies of JTF and yet I still contribute and feel a part of the JTF family. I hope you too can allow this to pass...


Ego?  Shlomo does not have an unchecked ego.  What credit does he seek?  Is he arbitrary? No.  I can imagine that he sacrifices on many levels to work for JTF, along with Chaim.  Maybe he was acting, in what he thought, was the best interest of JTF.  I appreciate the efforts of Cyberella to defeat Obama.  I appreciate her providing us with information about him.  Still, I don't want to be lectured about what to do and have it BTTT'd over my head.  Members should come here, post information and participate in the forum.  Not just show up every four years and lecture the members.  I have always liked Cyberella's posts.  Still, I think she should understand that this is JTF and  the hard work and sacrifice of Chaim and Shlomo.  It seems to me that they never have any 'ego' about it.

[muman613]

I know that egos are difficult to control. I am sorry if it seems that Shomo acted arbitrarily. Do not be discouraged by this apparent set-back. I too have felt various feelings about policies of JTF and yet I still contribute and feel a part of the JTF family. I hope you too can allow this to pass...


Ego?  Shlomo does not have an unchecked ego.  What credit does he seek?  Is he arbitrary? No.  I can imagine that he sacrifices on many levels to work for JTF, along with Chaim.  Maybe he was acting, in what he thought, was the best interest of JTF.  I appreciate the efforts of Cyberella to defeat Obama.  I appreciate her providing us with information about him.  Still, I don't want to be lectured about what to do and have it BTTT'd over my head.  Members should come here, post information and participate in the forum.  Not just show up every four years and lecture the members.  I have always liked Cyberella's posts.  Still, I think she should understand that this is JTF and  the hard work and sacrifice of Chaim and Shlomo.  It seems to me that they never have any 'ego' about it.

Uhh, I never said anything about Shlomo having an ego. You obviously misunderstood what I wrote. I was responding to the OPs accusation that this was due to ego, which I was saying had nothing to do with the decision of Shlomo and everything to do with this thread.

BC, do you have a need to misrepresent what I say constantly?

[nessuno]

I don't think I misunderstood what you said.  Look at the first line of your post.  If I did, then, I apologize.
You Muman are the one with an ego.  I don't care a thing about what you post...except when it's offensive.
You apologized for Shlomo.  Why?

[cjd]

What Cyberella should understand is that we need to work within the JTF platform... Long after this election is over JTF will still be working on issues we feel are important... While its fine to visit other like minded sites we need to build JTF's presence on the web when it comes to dealing with important issues...Shlomo was 100% correct when he question the motives of the abbreviation post by a member who more or less seems to turn up around election time each year... It has nothing to do with ego it's just good forum policy.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

1. We are happy to see you work against Obama's re-election at this critical time, and we are happy to give you a platform by allowing you to publicize this web site.

2. The problem is that using all bold letters and artificially bumping up the thread over and over again is spamming. We do not mind you publicizing the web site or your message. We simply ask that you not spam us. We want our forum to look attractive so that we can bring our message to as many people as possible. If we allow people to spam us, it will damage our forum.

3. Shlomo is the last person that you can accuse of egotism. He works quietly behind the scenes 12 hours a day (sometimes more) and left his home and his well-paying job to help us. He is the ultimate example of an idealist.

[muman613]

I don't think I misunderstood what you said.  Look at the first line of your post.  If I did, then, I apologize.
You Muman are the one with an ego.  I don't care a thing about what you post...except when it's offensive.
You apologized for Shlomo.  Why?

BC,

You seem to have a problem understanding. I did not do anything to Shlomo, nor did I offer an apology for Shlomo action. You did not read the four paragraphs I wrote explaining why I agreed with Shlomo statement, instead concentrating on your the final paragraph where I offered words of strength in order to keep peace, something you seem  incapable of doing. Sometimes I wonder what it is you do for JTF. The only time I see you post is to distort what I say.

My whole point of posting in this topic is to create peace, and you come and accuse me of various things, increasing division. If Shlomo felt there was a problem with what I said he would tell me personally, as we have corresponded privately for many years.

[USAReturn2GodNow1776]

Is there any way that this Obama Files site could add a page with JTF's Obama videos? JTF's videos quckly convey the most damning facts about Obama. Even people who don't care enough about the election or have too short of an attention span to read pages of text about Obama  learn everything they need to know to become strongly anti-Obama when they click 1 or 2 of JTF's fine videos.

[angryChineseKahanist]

BTTT
Just saw the banned thread.
That's a lot of BTTTs.
I never knew what BTTT meant either.
Well, cyberella, you get A for effort. Just have to learn to be more patient.

[AsheDina]

Cyberella:
I asked you to come help me on my blog:

www.themadjewess.com

I could have helped you, but you didnt want to come : (

[Rubystars]

I think it was a good idea to move the thread after it kept getting bounced.

[muman613]

LKZ, I have posted things which upset some Christians. Usually when I bring up things which happened in history which they don't appreciate being reminded of {or act defensively about for whatever reason}. I have never accused present day Churches of doing what they used to do {except for the RCC which has reneged on some aspects of Vatican II}. I am fully ready to put aside those differences here in order to work for the greater good {which I was talking about in my original response} and to put aside my 'ego' so that we may bring about the changes we seek.

BC is the one who accused me of saying that Shlomo had an ego {which I cannot see I ever said in that message}... She has, repeatedly, taken things I have said and made it sound like something else... It is no secret that we don't get along....

I appreciate your attempt to make peace in this case. I believe that we all can work harder to put aside these differences. I just don't like being misrepresented {I never apologized for Shlomo nor did I imply he was acting with ego by locking the thread}.

[Lisa]

Perhaps JTF and Beckwith can work together.  For starters, maybe Beckwith can link to our videos and our forum.  And maybe we can have a links section on the main site as well.

[cjd]

Oh well I'm back on the crisis of faith thing and I think I'm half Christian again, but I never saw anything you posted that was offensive to Christians... is history offensive? I love it, and have no problem calling a spade a spade. And I'm pretty sure I don't get along with anyone, except you and now Ephraim, but I don't care either way, this isn't a popularity contest where we expect love letters. I'll send you one, if that's nice, but otherwise I can't guarantee it'll be heartfelt... so yeah don't take offense when others take offense at what you didn't do, just say it; who cares? If someone does, it'll make me sleep better at night anyways.

Acutally on second thought I think I get along well with everyone except Ephraim. 

Just joking

Sleep tight don't let the bedbugs bite   

[cjd]

Hey Muman, ruby was talking about Cyberella, Ruby, muman's posts are usually awesome, although I can't say I find fault in Schlomo over this, Cyberella, you now have several options of many people that would be happy to work with you without need for a bttt and Ruby again, I'm the one who "apologized" for Shlomo's actions first which was an attempt to create peace, and I beleive Muman tried to second that. The only question he deserves is asking him which JTF policies he feels adversely, or even good about, so we can improve.

If any thread needed to be locked, it's this one.

Blessed be the peacemakers... We see all the good the United Nations accomplishes every day  People should apologize for their own actions and leave others to apologize for themselves if the need arises which in this case there was none.

[muman613]

cjd,

You are wrong when it comes to the Jewish view toward peace. It is a very important quality in a person, so much so that the Talmud {Pirkie Avot} says the following:

Hillel and Shamai received (the tradition) from them (Shmaya and Avtalyon). Hillel says: Be from among the students of Aharon; one who loves peace, one who pursues peace, one who loves others and brings them closer to Torah. (Avot 1:12)

See this commentary for better understanding:

http://www.torah.org/learning/maharal/p1m12part1.html

The underlying motivation of everything Aharon did was to bring benefit to others, to work selflessly for their welfare. One can only do this if one has a deep love of those he is serving, which would lead to constantly seeking to bring them benefit and good. This service for others indicates a deep love of them. It is also impossible to truly unite people without your own personal connection and a deep love of them. (If your motivations are utilitarian or self-serving, it will affect your ability to inspire others to transcend their personal agendas, and prevent true unity.)

It is for these reasons that Aharon serves as a role model for lessons of our Mishna. Aharon was particularly responsible for bringing peace, harmony and unity to the world, uniting people with each other, as well as uniting them with their Father in Heaven. A person who succeeds in loving and pursuing peace, loving people and bringing them closer to Torah has successfully embodied what is the fundamental characteristic of Aharon. He has successfuly learned from Aharon the characteristic of loving people and working selflessly to serve them. He truly deserves to call himself a disciple of Aharon, who is the role model for these behaviors.

See also : http://www.torah.org/learning/beyond-pshat/5763/vayakhel.html

The Gemara in Tractate Nidarim tells us that when Aaron Ha'Kohen (Moshe's brother) passed away everyone cried because he was involved with shalom bais- as it is stated in the verse, "Aaron loved peace and he pursued peace." The Gemara states that if a husband makes a vow that his wife cannot benefit from him in anyway unless she spits in the High Priest's eye (the Kohen Gadol) it is a valid vow and the marriage is finished.

Aaron Ha'Kohen pursed peace to such a degree that if he was made aware of such a vow, he would have approached the man's wife and told her that she should spit in his eye because the doctor said that it was the only way he could get cured from his eye ailment. This would have restored the marriage. We see from Aaron's conduct that he established that the Kohen has the characteristic shalom and has relevance to shalom bais. We can now understand why the Kohen is the one who conducts the ritual of the sotah and not the Levy.

And nobody here was apologizing for another persons action. I was apologizing to the OP for any feelings of rejection which may have been felt as a result of her thread being locked, this is called Empathy and is another aspect of Chesed (Kindness).

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

This is 

P.s. I have nothing to do with the Masada website!

[muman613]

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-12.html

If Aaron would see someone acting improperly, he would not go over and rebuke or criticize the fellow directly. He would rather *befriend* him, pretending not to be aware of his faults. The person would eventually grow ashamed: "What would my friend Aaron think if he knew I acted this way behind his back? How could I betray his trust and friendship?" Sooner or later the man would repent his ways.

Further, if Aaron would observe two people quarreling, he would afterwards approach one of them with the following: "I just saw the other fellow besides himself with grief. He's sitting there saying it's all his fault and how can he possibly face you again." Aaron then promptly went to the other fellow with the exact same story. ;-) Needless to say, the next time the people met they were tearfully hugging each other, the life-or-death issues they had been arguing about long forgotten. (Most arguments are about life-or-death issues nobody can quite recall after.)

Lastly, Aaron was credited for saving many a marriage, for running back and forth between husband and wife working his same magic. The mishna attests that in those times thousands of children were named after him -- because they would have never been born had Aaron not been there to save the parents' marriages.

[muman613]

And just in case anyone else is interested in the Jewish concept of peace, here is another short article on the topic from another pasuk of Avot:


http://www.torah.org/learning/maharal/p1m18part3.html

Chapter 1: Mishna 18: Part 3

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: Upon three things the world is sustained: On judgment ("din") on truth ("emeth") and on peace ("shalom"). As it is written (Zechariah 8:16) "Truth, and judgment of peace [you should] judge in your gates.

"Avodah," service, is man's perfection in relation to G-d. The parallel to this in our Mishna is "din." It is through correct "din" that the judge becomes a partner with G-d in the process of creation, becoming "good" (fulfilling his purpose; refer back to the Maharal's introduction, as well as Mishna 2) in his relationship with G-d.

Torah is man's perfection in relation to his essence as a human being. The parallel in our Mishna is "emeth," truth, which is the perfection of the individual, accomplished through the embodiment and pursuit of truth. This makes him "good" in relation to himself ("To thine own self be true" ...). Emeth, truth, is a reality, while "sheker," falsehood, lacks any reality or existence. The quality of a person's existence is a function of his integrity.

"Gemiluth chasadim," acts of loving kindness, is man's perfection in relation to his fellow man. The parallel in our Mishna is "shalom," peace and harmony, for this is how man is "good," fulfilling his purpose, in relation to his fellow man.

But there is a distinction between the elements taught by Shimon HaTzadik and those taught in our Mishna. Torah, avodah and gemiluth chasadim are the foundations of the creation of the world. It is with these elements that G-d began his creation, bestowing initial existence through them. AFTER the world was created, G-d's continued support and the continued functioning of the world is dependent on the three elements of our Mishna.

First is "din." The world endures through the decrees of G-d, as it is written (Tehillim 33:9) "He has said, and it becomes; he commands, and it stands." G-d's decrees are the embodiment of "din," the strict imperative, and it is for this reason that the name of G-d which is used during creation is that of "Elokim," the G-d of strict judgment and imperative. (The laws of nature reveal to us the will of G-d through a dimension of imperative and compulsion, in contrast with the laws of the Torah, which reveal the will of G-d through a dimension of man's free choice.) It is through the process of ensuring the integrity of the worlds decreed imperatives that the judge becomes a partner with G-d in His creation. If "din" would not exist in the world of man, then G-d would withhold His ongoing decrees by which the world is sustained.

"Emeth" is another element that ensures the ongoing functioning of the world, as it is written (Tehillim 11:8) "They are supported forever and eternally; they are made in truth and are straightforward." It is through its truth that the world is maintained, in line with the adage "Truth stands; falsehood does not stand." Without truth, the world crumbles. (Refer to last week's shiur about what is meant by "truth.")

And "shalom," the final element of completion and fulfillment of creation, is necessary for the world's continuing functioning. Without peaceful interaction of all the elements of the world, this element of completion would be lacking, and the world would not be sustained.

Understand these ideas, for they are very lofty and very deep in wisdom of the transcendent; there are more great and deep ideas (contained therein) and it is impossible to elaborate more. And the Blessed One will merit provide us (with more understanding) in Netiv HaEmeth and Yosher (Netivoth Olam).

(The last paragraph is a verbatim translation of the words of the Maharal at this point in his commentary. I have included it due to the responses I received wanting to know why (as I wrote in the beginning of last week's shiur) I had skipped the "Kabbalistic parts." "Those are the best parts!" someone wrote. In actuality, Kabbalah is called the "HIDDEN dimension" of Torah, and as such it is not taught and transmitted in the same way that the revealed parts of Torah are. Chazal place limitations on the ways it is supposed to be taught, and who is suited to learn it. (See Chagiga Ch. 2, and the Rambam's Introduction to his commentary on Mishna.) While the internet had not yet been invented in Talmudic times, it is clear from the Rabbinical literature that this is not a suitable medium for dissemination of these dimensions of Torah wisdom. Additionally, there is a requirement that one be most well versed in the revealed dimensions of Torah (Tanach, Talmud, Halacha, basic philosophy) before being ready for its hidden dimensions. This is why the Maharal concludes sections that deal with Kabbalistic matters with phrases like we have quoted above -- transcendent and deep ideas which cannot be elaborated on more he has already done in his cryptic way. Which is why the works of the Maharal are known to contain hidden Torah in the guise of revealed Torah.)

(The Maharal now presents an overview summary of the development of the chapter.)

The earlier teachings of the five pairs of Tanaim (ending with Hillel and Shammai) were to instruct man on perfecting his behavior from perspectives of both fear and love. After completing those lessons, we return to lessons on how man can perfect the essence of his "self," defining the kind of person he is. "Make yourself a Rav, remove yourself from doubtful situations; and don't use estimates too often in determining tithes," are behaviors befitting a man who possesses a spiritual/intellectual component, and teach man that all his actions should be clear and precise, reflecting this level of being (Mishna 16).

As we said above, this Mishna (in contrast to Mishna 6) is referring to a Rav who is necessary to ensure that man's intellectual component is understanding the Torah in a correct way, avoiding any distortion in the intellectual assimilation of Torah wisdom. This is the way man will have the true Torah, as befits one whose dominant dimension is "sechel." But there seems to be a difference between the first two lessons of the Mishna, and the third one which teaches us not to "use estimates too often in determining tithes." For this last behavior doesn't seem to be such an imperative one. It therefore appears that this Mishna is referring to the three levels of man's intellect, and advising one that each of these levels should function with clarity. First is the transcendent, objective sechel. A Rav is necessary to ensure that it is assimilating the Torah, which is transcendent, objective truth, in an accurate fashion. Next comes pragmatic sechel, which is what enables man to figure out the best way to accomplish something in the real world. Removing yourself from doubtful situations is the proper way to behave in ensuring that this level of sechel functions precisely. Finally, there is the sechel of imagination and ideas. Even within this dimension of sechel, when it must bring man to action those actions must be precise and accurate. We are therefore taught not to minimize the use of estimates in tithing.

This is followed by the lesson of Rabban Shimon, teaching man, who has a component of physicality, the most appropriate behavior for his perfection. Silence, even among wise people, is a virtue in man (Mishna 17).

What is common to these last two lessons is that they are not as imperative as the earlier lessons of the chapter. The earlier lessons instruct man how to perfect himself through behaviors of love and awe, which is compulsory. After the five pairs concluded the fundamental lessons, Rabban Gamliel came to teach how man can properly reflect his essence as an intellectual/spiritual being, followed by Rabban Shimon teaching how man's physical component can also function in the most appropriate way. These lessons do not contain elements of love and awe, but are supplementary lessons in how man can best reflect his true essence.

The class is taught by Rabbi Shaya Karlinsky, Dean of Darche Noam Institutions, Yeshivat Darche Noam/Shapell's and Midreshet Rachel for Women.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You pretty much erased any sympathy we might have for you once you accused Shlomo of having an ego.

[muman613]

You pretty much erased any sympathy we might have for you once you accused Shlomo of having an ego.

brennanfan,

Let me understand because at first I misunderstood... Was this addressed to me, or to the Original Poster?

[muman613]

If Cyberalla comes back, she is gonna be sooo confused 

Im already confused....

But let us all agree... Shlomo was completely justified in his locking the original thread.

We don't want people to just keep bumping old threads up in order to get attention. And we don't approve of all caps and bold as a normal writing style {there are exceptions which I wrote in my original response}.