nypd brutally assaults man in synagogue

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Crown Heights, soo almost definitely Chabad.

That's what I was thinking.  But maybe it was some ordinary citizen who called the police.

[Dr. Dan]

  You know Dr. Dan read your posts here on this topic, you contradict yourself soo blatantly throughout your responses here.

 

You know what?  I did from my original post...sort of.  I do stand by that he was trespassing and resisting arrest.  The cop did not behave appropriately either.  I would have lied about inviting the homeless guy to protect him.  And my advice to the homeless guy is to not mess with cops.  You don't know who you are ticking off.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If I were a juror trying the bum, he would be guilty of trespass and avoiding arrest.

If I were a juror for police brutality, I would say yes guilty to the cop

How is the kid guilty of tresspassing when that Moishe Feiglin guy invited him to stay at the JCC? That Trappler Zalmann dude needs to seriously get the pants sued off of him which I am quite sure will happen. That being said even if the kid wasn't invited to sleep there (which he was) how the heck is his sleeping on a couch in the lobby threatening to everybody? As has already been stated, that's the JCC's job.

[Sveta]

That's not a JCC. JCC is the newer name of the YMHA (Young Men's Hebrew Association). JCC's are UJA/Federation type places.

[Sveta]

What is Aliya?

http://www.aliyainstitute.com/templates/articlecco_cdo/aid/622823/jewish/About-Us.htm

Established in 2003 , A.L.I.Y.A. (Alternative Learning Institute for Young Adults) has been committed to serving spiritual, physical, educational, emotional and vocational needs of young adults in the Crown Heights community.

The organization’s beginning can be traced to a number of activities which grew into what is now A.L.I.Y.A. Specifically geared towards young adults who are no longer in Yeshiva, its origins are linked to a specialized school created in the Brooklyn Heights community (at the Congregation B’nei  Avraham, Rabbi A. Raskin) which consisted of half the day devoted to personalized Torah learning and the other half focusing on English and Math, more specifically in preparation for the GED (High School equivalence test).

[muman613]

That's not a JCC. JCC is the newer name of the YMHA (Young Men's Hebrew Association). JCC's are UJA/Federation type places.

This was a 'Jewish Community Center' which is why some refer to it as JCC, although as you pointed out it has no relation to the official JCC organization. It was called ALIYAH and operated as a place for 'troubled Jewish youth' to go to.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

That's what I was thinking.  But maybe it was some ordinary citizen who called the police.

 In my response I wasn't implying anything about the place nor of it being at fault or anything like that. I just responded to Brennanfan when he asked what was it and who probably is in charge.

[Sveta]

This was a 'Jewish Community Center' which is why some refer to it as JCC, although as you pointed out it has no relation to the official JCC organization. It was called ALIYAH and operated as a place for 'troubled Jewish youth' to go to.

You mean the building used to belong to the official JCC organization or they mean Jcc with a lower case cc (Jewish community center).

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

The officers actions were totally uncalled for, there was no need for a single strike! If he was a real cop he would of easily taken him down without causing harm to the man and arrested him!

[Sveta]

The officers actions were totally uncalled for, there was no need for a single strike! If he was a real cop he would of easily taken him down without causing harm to the man and arrested him!

If the cop was black, the man arrested would be called racist by the media.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

If the cop was black, the man arrested would be called racist by the media.

Very true!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The obvious answer is that the guy who called the cops was not aware that this fellow had permission to stay there.  It sounds like misunderstanding and miscommunication all around.  Mix in confused homeless guy, impatient cop and you have this mess.

More like a typical dbag with a hero complex who wanted to be the big man and get his face in the news. That Zalmann pig, ys, needs to be sued into homelessness and the homeless kid get his house in exchange.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You know what?  I did from my original post...sort of. I do stand by that he was trespassing and resisting arrest.  The cop did not behave appropriately either.  I would have lied about inviting the homeless guy to protect him.  And my advice to the homeless guy is to not mess with cops.  You don't know who you are ticking off.

How can you say that when the director of the JCC's youth program gave him permission to stay there?

[Dr. Dan]

How can you say that when the director of the JCC's youth program gave him permission to stay there?

Sorry..let me clarify.  I have a feeling...and it's just a feeling and not fact, that rabbi feiglan might be lying to protect the victim for the brutality which took place.  I am also saying that if this were true, I agree with rabbi feiglan...I would lie also.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Sorry..let me clarify.  I have a feeling...and it's just a feeling and not fact, that rabbi feiglan might be lying to protect the victim for the brutality which took place.  I am also saying that if this were true, I agree with rabbi feiglan...I would lie also.

1: Why would a rabbi lie on behalf of a random intruder? It makes zero sense. Do you have any evidence for this?

2: Even if this were somehow true it doesn't justify an emergency call (wtf? was this kid threatening the life of that Trappler Zalmann pos?) being placed to throw him out and have him beaten to a pulp.

I hope that the JCC is sued into bankruptcy and this poor Israeli kid gets to live in it, for the rest of his life.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

More like a typical dbag with a hero complex who wanted to be the big man and get his face in the news. That Zalmann pig, ys, needs to be sued into homelessness and the homeless kid get his house in exchange.

 I dont feel comfortable you using such language on a Jew without any clear evidence to what happened and without any facts coming out as of yett.  Just soo you know (in case you don't )YSV is very strong language that should only be reserved to outright traitors, minim and apikorsim (when it is beyond a reasonable doubt).

[Dr. Dan]

1: Why would a rabbi lie on behalf of a random intruder? It makes zero sense. Do you have any evidence for this?

2: Even if this were somehow true it doesn't justify an emergency call (wtf? was this kid threatening the life of that Trappler Zalmann pos?) being placed to throw him out and have him beaten to a pulp.

I hope that the JCC is sued into bankruptcy and this poor Israeli kid gets to live in it, for the rest of his life.

I said I had a feeling.  Sorry no proof required for a feeling.  I never stated it was a fact the rabbi was lying.  I just have a feeling that he was lying to protect him.  Most rabbis are responsible and they would inform security of a homeless man staying at the center.  That's just ny opinion and speculation.  I could be wrong

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In my response I wasn't implying anything about the place nor of it being at fault or anything like that. I just responded to Brennanfan when he asked what was it and who probably is in charge.

Yeah I also thought it was a Chabad place.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I dont feel comfortable you using such language on a Jew without any clear evidence to what happened and without any facts coming out as of yett.  Just soo you know (in case you don't )YSV is very strong language that should only be reserved to outright traitors, minim and apikorsim (when it is beyond a reasonable doubt).

The facts are that this Trappler called the SECULAR POLICE on an innocent Jew that was not harming him, let alone posing a life-threatening situation which is what is needed to justify a 911 call. The secular police beat this poor guy within an inch of his life. Granted I am no halacha expert but I have heard Chaim address this kind of situation many times on Ask JTF and he clearly stated that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to rat out a fellow Jew to secular Gentile authorities unless it is an absolute life/death emergency. This makes Zalmann a kapo and a Judenrat, no different from those "Jews" who turned in fellow children to the Nazis in occupied Europe. He deserves everything that may come to him in this life and the world to come and I think ysv was completely warranted.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  The incident is about police beating this guy, regardless of the circumstances behind it, it is their job to take care of the situation including arresting someone and NOT beating the sh^t out of somebody when they are not posing a threat and can be easily apprehended.
  And about mentioning someone black (as was asked earlier what if he was black) I would and am against that as well. If their is a situation where the guy is swinging or pulling a gun or knife, understandable the cop should do what needs to be done for his/her safety but not in situations like this. And if today its a black guy or him or whomever else tomorrow it can be you. Obviously their is a middle, rational ground that must be taken where both the police officers safety should be a priority and the rights of the individuals is upheld where people should not be expected or be beaten like that.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The facts are that this Trappler called the SECULAR POLICE on an innocent Jew that was not harming him, let alone posing a life-threatening situation which is what is needed to justify a 911 call. The secular police beat this poor guy within an inch of his life. Granted I am no halacha expert but I have heard Chaim address this kind of situation many times on Ask JTF and he clearly stated that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to rat out a fellow Jew to secular Gentile authorities unless it is an absolute life/death emergency. This makes Zalmann a kapo and a Judenrat, no different from those "Jews" who turned in fellow children to the Nazis in occupied Europe. He deserves everything that may come to him in this life and the world to come and I think ysv was completely warranted.

 First off they are not Secular (but that's not important). Secondly you, me, we do not know the circumstances behind this whole incident. Their certainly are, and not only are but should, MUST call and address the cops or authorities depending upon the situation.
 Secondly them beating him has nothing to do with the person calling them. That was and is the responsibility of the cops and the NYPD under normal circumstances the person would either just be told to leave or removed otherwise.

[Dr. Dan]

Good points tag and I agree with you.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

First off they are not Secular (but that's not important). Secondly you, me, we do not know the circumstances behind this whole incident. Their certainly are, and not only are but should, MUST call and address the cops or authorities depending upon the situation.
 Secondly them beating him has nothing to do with the person calling them. That was and is the responsibility of the cops and the NYPD under normal circumstances the person would either just be told to leave or removed otherwise.

What do you mean they are not secular? This was NYPD. Last time I checked the U.S. Constitution prohibits the creation of a religious police force (though that may change if the Muslim gets reelected). Two Gentile Hispanic officers beat the living snot about a sleeping Jewish kid that was doing nothing to them or anybody. I'm sure that if I were roughly awakened by two cops for sleeping at a property that I felt was safe I'd panic in my half-asleep stupor too. This kid was trying to get away from the cops at most. He most certainly did not do anything that warranted felony charges.

But getting back to the original topic, this night watchman at the JCC called the secular Gentile police on an innocent Jewish kid that was doing absolutely nothing to him and Chaim Ben Pesach has said that that is kapo behavior.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

First, we should never curse people if we do not have all of the facts. We do not know who called or why or what the circumstances were - so to curse the Jewish Center is uncalled for. This same Jewish Center provided the video footage from their camera to expose this brutality, so it seems to me that they were completely against what took place.

Second, the gestapo-like brutality of the two police officers (the man and the woman) is an outrage. If they intended to arrest this Israeli Jewish man, once they subdued him on the couch, there was no need to savagely assault him dozens of times. If this had been a black criminal, it would have caused riots.

Third, the police should treat an Israeli Jew in a Jewish synagogue differently from the way they treat black criminals who resist arrest. Israeli Jews do not murder police officers or endanger their lives. This Israeli Jew should never have been arrested to begin with. He had permission to sleep there. That's why he resisted when they decided to unjustly arrest him. Is it dumb to resist arrest? Yes. But he was arrested unfairly. Once he was arrested, he should have been subdued and cuffed. Period. In the case of black criminals, police should use much more force because blacks have murdered many police officers over the years. Even if it is "politically incorrect", true justice demands that we make a huge distinction between a basically harmless Israeli Jew and a violent black criminal.

[Dr. Dan]

בס''ד

First, we should never curse people if we do not have all of the facts. We do not know who called or why or what the circumstances were - so to curse the Jewish Center is uncalled for. This same Jewish Center provided the video footage from their camera to expose this brutality, so it seems to me that they were completely against what took place.

Second, the gestapo-like brutality of the two police officers (the man and the woman) is an outrage. If they intended to arrest this Israeli Jewish man, once they subdued him on the couch, there was no need to savagely assault him dozens of times. If this had been a black criminal, it would have caused riots.

Third, the police should treat an Israeli Jew in a Jewish synagogue differently from the way they treat black criminals who resist arrest. Israeli Jews do not murder police officers or endanger their lives. This Israeli Jew should never have been arrested to begin with. He had permission to sleep there. That's why he resisted when they decided to unjustly arrest him. Is it dumb to resist arrest? Yes. But he was arrested unfairly. Once he was arrested, he should have been subdued and cuffed. Period. In the case of black criminals, police should use much more force because blacks have murdered many police officers over the years. Even if it is "politically incorrect", true justice demands that we make a huge distinction between a basically harmless Israeli Jew and a violent black criminal.

Agree with your explanation.

I have another question..If the homeless person was never invited and actually trespassed, do you think it is acceptable for a  Rabbi to lie about the invitation to protect the homeless person?  I believe it's ok.