Author Topic: "New Kach" to run (Read 16527 times)

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2012, 10:20:35 PM »

Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on October 30, 2012, 10:10:53 PM

Again starting to stirr sh^t as usual. I dont know a lot about Ktzelen but posting an old photo of him with Sharon in an attempt to make him look bad is low. At that time it was Sharon who was building and supporting Jewish settlement in the land of Israel. That was then. Soo what if he appears in a picture with him? That is like defaming Rav Kahane for him earlier supporting Begin although later Begin did F@$% up.

I don't know what the dude's malfunction is, but certain things he puts up are better off ignored. This stuff about katzeleh certainly doesn't make logical sense nor does it have a coherent point. Par for the course.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2012, 11:11:16 PM »

Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on October 29, 2012, 04:08:10 PM

How are we to change the minds of Israelis if they would be and are exposed to different Kahanists not uniting and not changing things, but spending time and effort fighting THEMSELVES. Would the average, uninformed or even informed person like or want people like that taking over and running the country. Is that the hope and change "Kahanists" would bring?
By the way I dont even think one necessarily needs to be classified even as a "Kahanist" to be working together for the betterment of the Jewish nation and for Kiddush Hashem. Compromises in Halacha and core belief should not be tolerated yett their are some differences (in strategy) that can be tolerated and accepted.

The reason why I say third generation is because it will take that long for a logical group of Jews to know how to present this idealism properly without fighting about minutia.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2012, 11:22:16 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on October 30, 2012, 11:11:16 PM

The reason why I say third generation is because it will take that long for a logical group of Jews to know how to present this idealism properly without fighting about minutia.

I think we can and should do what needs to be done now. Waiting to repair some possible old wounds wont do it. Their is such things as forgiveness and forgetting silly divisive things. Dont we all ask for forgiveness at least at the time of the 10 days of repentance? (BW Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur).

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2012, 01:39:25 AM »

Quote

Sad to see that people with basically the same ideology fighting each other. Think of it this way, the leftists want different groups fighting each other over petty differences. It is not like their are 2 different parties and you are saying to vote for 1 and not the other. Inflating these little differences makes it worse for all of us. (Whether it is them to you or you to them).

בס''ד

What the leftists really want is for us to support "right-wingers" who betray all of their principles just to have seats in the Knesset.

Ben Ari, Marzel and Ben Gvir have "basically the same ideology" as JTF? Here is just a small sample of what they stand for:

*Ben Ari has said that "the stupidest thing Israel could do" is to destroy Iran's nuclear bomb-making program. Thus, Ben Ari is to the left of Bibi Netanyahu and even Ehud Barak on the Iranian nuclear threat.

*Ben Ari has repeatedly said "zichrono livracha" (may his memory be blessed) after mentioning the name of Yitzchak Rabin ys"v. Thus, Ben Ari uses the traditional Jewish blessing to bless the memory of Rabin, who murdered 16 Jewish heroes in cold blood on the Altalena. Rabin is also responsible for the murder of 1800 Jews who were slaughtered as a result of the treasonous Oslo accords. No one forced Ben Ari to do this, indeed no one asked him to. He on his own initiative wrote a letter to the chairman of the Knesset in which Ben Ari repeatedly blessed Rabin's memory. Ben Ari might as well bless the memory of Rabin's friend Yasser Arafat.

*Ben Ari shook hands with the traitors of the extreme leftwing Meretz party (who favor Israel's destruction) and blessed them as well with "shana tova" (good new year).

*Marzel took money that I sent him and placed it in an Arab Muslim Nazi bank.

*Marzel and Ben Gvir had a forum on their web site. They appointed Uzi Zalka to be the administrator of the forum. The mentally ill Zalka then started praising Hitler and the holocaust on the forum and also uploaded numerous videos to youtube praising Hitler and the holocaust. When I told Ben Gvir about this, he incredibly refused to remove Zalka from his position for several months until I finally started exposing this with videos.

*Ben Ari publicly condemned a courageous Kahanist young lady because she called Sudanese Muslim illegal alien criminals "animals". Ben Ari said that they are not "animals" and that he personally helped one. Of course, helping them in any way only encourages them to flood into Israel.

*Ben Ari said that Israeli Jewish taxpayers should bail out the extreme left-wing Maariv newspaper from bankruptcy. Ben Ari will say or do anything to suck up to the Bolshevik Israeli news media.

I am not even mentioning how Ben Ari publicly ridiculed our movement in Israel in order to show his friends in the left-wing news media that he is not an "extremist".

Rabin, Meretz, Maariv and the Sudanese Muslims he blesses, praises and defends. True Kahanists he condemns and ridicules. Now you see why the left-wing news media gives him so much favorable coverage.

"Basically the same ideology"?!

muman613 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2012, 02:22:54 AM »

In defense of those statements I must say that the image, not knowing what you know Chaim, is that these guys have said things which can be seen as similar to our position. I am sure that you know more than most of us. But my question to you Chaim is this.... What are we doing?

Our situation seems pretty hopeless at this point. I don't mean to be controversial but I have a legitimate question of us all. What are we going to do? We have no politician in the current system which can do anything to save our land. What I think we need is to make alliances with the existing political system, establish which politicians are the ones who will achieve the goals we envision.

But it seems we are always knocking the people in government, and we have no tangible ability to influence the system.

While bringing down the 'phony right' let us also build up an alternative, one which offers hope to us all. Because without hope we cannot continue, without strength from Hashem to keep us moving in the right direction we will wither.

In your most honest opinion, Chaim, could you offer us some names and parties which you think offer us hope?

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #30 on:** October 31, 2012, 10:49:08 AM »

Ben Ari on Iran- http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159550#.UJE4QsXA99U

He is saying to attack Gaza first before Iran and not ignore that problem (the missiles coming in from Gaza).
I dont see him directly saying not to attack Iran and not to confront that issue

About the statements on rabin. Perhaps it was sarcastic? What was the exact context and is their proof (like a video or something?). Other similar statements were made by different people but they were sarcastic. From what I know Noam Federman also made such statements such as "its a holiday soo we celebrate" and other such things basically mocking them. Soo it could have been the same here just reading it somewhere is not the same as actually seeing it.

Shaking hands is not necessarily a crime. Some would others do not. Heck Romney shakes hands with Obama yett they hate each other and are enemies. Perhaps he was trying to win them over since their are different ways to approach a situation. sometimes with full force (also very good) other times perhaps giving them chance to change their heart.

The rest I dont know too much about.

muman613 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2012, 12:31:16 AM »

I was really hoping Chaim would answer this question.... I am patient but I hope this thread doesn't just disappear.

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,64901.msg566947.html#msg566947

Sveta · « **Reply #32 on:** November 01, 2012, 01:14:17 AM »

I agree with Muman. What alternatives are there. And if not now, when? When will there be one. Kahanism today is completely disorganized. There are remnants of the older Kahanist generation and their kids/grandkids. There are newcomers to Kahanism. But no central leadership and no central authority. No one can stand up to the task because if someone does, the other groups immediately discredit each other. Whether in the days of Revava vs Kfar Tapuach vs Kahane.org vs JTF vs Bnai Elim vs JDL vs.. every other group. We are all "splinters" "liars" "do nothing" "traitors" etc..etc.. No one can be first, no one can step up and no one can lead "Kahanism". So then where is the future of Kahanism? What are WE doing to change Israel and the world?

Ahavat Yisrael, Hadar, Barzel, Mishma'at, Bitachon. We all believe in it but heaven forbid someone try to organize anything. I think the only time where Kahanist try to put their issues aside is during the yearly Rabbi Kahane memorial. And Rav Binyamin''s memorial. (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/253494#.UJIEZoZqA1I)

From my perspective. While I am completely pro-Kahanism...if a group comes into power that is not Kahanist but pro-Torah, right wing etc I would support them.
I don't expect Moshiach to be a hardcore Kahanist, maybe he won't be, maybe he will. That's ok.
To me the message of Kahanism is that it is a step in the right direction. And a message that will go on and will continue. But a central Kahanist leadership is close to impossible. And if it is close to impossible, I believe it can inspire the next generation of future rightwing leadership.

Sveta · « **Reply #33 on:** November 01, 2012, 01:23:25 AM »

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. If I did then I apologize.

I did not mean anything against this group. I just get frustrated in general with the way things are.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #34 on:** November 01, 2012, 01:31:39 AM »

Quote from: muman613 on October 31, 2012, 02:22:54 AM

In defense of those statements I must say that the image, not knowing what you know Chaim, is that these guys have said things which can be seen as similar to our position. I am sure that you know more than most of us. But my question to you Chaim is this.... What are we doing?

Our situation seems pretty hopeless at this point. I don't mean to be controversial but I have a legitimate question of us all. What are we going to do? We have no politician in the current system which can do anything to save our land. What I think we need is to make alliances with the existing political system, establish which politicians are the ones who will achieve the goals we envision.

But it seems we are always knocking the people in government, and we have no tangible ability to influence the system.

While bringing down the 'phony right' let us also build up an alternative, one which offers hope to us all. Because without hope we cannot continue, without strength from Hashem to keep us moving in the right direction we will wither.

In your most honest opinion, Chaim, could you offer us some names and parties which you think offer us hope?

בס''ד

Do you want the hard truth? The hard truth is that all of the politicians and parties in Israel are phonies who are more concerned about their own political future than the future of the Jewish people. That includes Michael Ben Ari, Baruch Marzel and Itamar Ben Gvir.

Ben Ari has been in the Knesset for almost four years. He has not accomplished anything because he is unwilling to truly confront the establishment that is destroying the country. During the time Ben Ari has been in the Knesset, things have gotten worse on every issue. Giving him another four years in the Knesset will not bring any better results than the past four years.

The only solution is to tell the truth and wake up the Jewish people. That is what we are trying to do. It is very hard to do with a very limited budget but we must reach as many Jews as possible. We have no intention of giving Jews false hopes and illusions. Jews must change their entire way of thinking and acting in order to bring redemption. There are no shortcuts.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #35 on:** November 01, 2012, 01:57:19 AM »

Quote from: IsraeliHeart on November 01, 2012, 01:14:17 AM

I agree with Muman. What alternatives are there. And if not now, when? When will there be one. Kahanism today is completely disorganized. There are remnants of the older Kahanist generation and their kids/grandkids. There are newcomers to Kahanism. But no central leadership and no central authority. No one can stand up to the task because if someone does, the other groups immediately discredit each other. Whether in the days of Revava vs Kfar Tapuach vs Kahane.org vs JTF vs Bnai Elim vs JDL vs.. every other group. We are all "splinters" "liars" "do nothing" "traitors" etc..etc.. No one can be first, no one can step up and no one can lead "Kahanism". So then where is the future of Kahanism? What are WE doing to change Israel and the world?

Ahavat Yisrael, Hadar, Barzel, Mishma'at, Bitachon. We all believe in it but heaven forbid someone try to organize anything. I think the only time where Kahanist try to put their issues aside is during the yearly Rabbi Kahane memorial. And Rav Binyamin''s memorial. (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/253494#.UJIEZoZqA1I)

From my perspective. While I am completely pro-Kahanism...if a group comes into power that is not Kahanist but pro-Torah, right wing etc I would support them.
I don't expect Moshiach to be a hardcore Kahanist, maybe he won't be, maybe he will. That's ok.
To me the message of Kahanism is that it is a step in the right direction. And a message that will go on and will continue. But a central Kahanist leadership is close to impossible. And if it is close to impossible, I believe it can inspire the next generation of future rightwing leadership.

בס''ד

We are the true Kahanist leadership. We do not betray principles and we have a history of accomplishing great historic things - such as freeing over 1.5 Soviet Jews.

Our message is the message that can change things. You see it with our great videos in both Hebrew and English - our videos are powerful and convincing. But we have to achieve one of three goals in order to become a mass movement:

*If we can ever raise millions of dollars, we will become a mass movement. Unfortunately, this was something that Rabbi Kahane also was unable to do - he never had a multimillion dollar budget. When will we finally have an adequate budget? I have no idea. But when we do, with G-d's help, we will take off in Israel like a rocket.

*If I am able to finally make aliyah, that will also be a big boost for our movement in Israel.

*If we find a way to increase the number of people seeing our videos from thousands every month to millions every month - or even hundreds of thousands in Israel every month, then we will become a mass movement. How do we do this? If I knew, we would have done it already.

If we achieve any of these three goals, we will be in a position to dramatically changes for the better. So we have to keep striving in the hope that eventually we catch a break, G-d willing. In the meantime, we still try to change things with what we have. We are not allowed to be silent and we are not. We do influence the thousands who see our videos on a regular basis. Admittedly, it's not enough but it is worthwhile. The young Israeli Jews seeing these videos can become the Kahanes of the future.

edu · « **Reply #36 on:** November 01, 2012, 02:16:04 AM »

I am not happy about some of the statements MK Ben Ari has made about "African refugees" and his stance on the issue of the Oslo Criminal, Rabin.
But on the majority of issues, I probably agree with him, and he and his new party are the ones most likely to press for the repeal of Anti-Kahane laws and most of our agenda.
In any case, Rabbi Yisrael Ariel (head of Machon Hamikdash) , who was #2 on Rabbi Kahane's party list, told me (several years ago, when I was thinking of boycotting the elections) that I have to vote and choose the lesser of evils.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #37 on:** November 01, 2012, 02:41:03 AM »

בס''ד

Quote

Ben Ari on Iran- http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/159550#.UJE4QsXA99U

He is saying to attack Gaza first before Iran and not ignore that problem (the missiles coming in from Gaza).
I dont see him directly saying not to attack Iran and not to confront that issue

This shows that Ben Ari is completely unfit to be a Jewish leader. What an idiotic statement. Hamas missiles from Gaza are a "bigger problem" than a nuclear Iran which can lead to a nuclear holocaust?! BTW Ben Ari also has no solution for missiles from Gaza because he has abandoned the Kahanist platform of getting the Arab Nazis out of Gaza which is the only thing that would solve the problem.

As far as your claim that Ben Ari is not suggesting that Israel not attack Iran, just to clear up any doubt, here is the interview that he did in Hebrew in which he explicitly states: "one of the stupidest things that Israel could do is to attack the Iranians". Ben Ari adds: "It is impossible to stop nuclear arming [of Iran]". He also says that Iran is not Israel's problem and that "we [Israel] are the last ones who are threatened by the Iranian threat". Ben Ari then tells us that the Saudis and the Europeans are more threatened by the Iranian threat than Israel!

G-d help us with leaders like Ben Ari who learned nothing from the holocaust and are willing to allow Iranian Muslim Nazis who vow to exterminate us obtain nuclear weapons.

One final point: you really should change your user name if you want to support Ben Ari. Because in this same interview, he condemns the underground fighters of Tag Mechir who risk their freedom and their lives to try to save the Jewish people.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #38 on:** November 01, 2012, 03:30:10 AM »

Michael Ben-Ari is reminding me a whole lot of that other fraud, Mike Guzofsky.

Zelhar · « **Reply #39 on:** November 01, 2012, 04:38:42 AM »

This is like the worst interview ever. It is not a simple slip of the tong or a rush dismissal, he developed a whole thesis against attacking Iran while also admitting the sanctions aren't going to stop them either and it is inevitable that they will go nuke so we should just let them and be quiet.

He is worse then Shimon Peres and any other Israeli politician on that issue.

And one more thing, at the last sentence he also condemns tag mechir. This is no Kahanist.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #40 on:** November 01, 2012, 10:49:48 PM »

Chaim serious question- if you had the opportunity to be in Israel now and to run but your only way of getting in (at least in the beginning) would be with them would you turn it down? Wouldn't you run, be in and try to use that influence to change things for the good of Am Yisrael? Just a though.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #41 on:** November 01, 2012, 11:49:47 PM »

Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek on November 01, 2012, 10:49:48 PM

Chaim serious question- if you had the opportunity to be in Israel now and to run but your only way of getting in (at least in the beginning) would be with them would you turn it down? Wouldn't you run, be in and try to use that influence to change things for the good of Am Yisrael? Just a though.

בס''ד

It would be difficult for me to run with someone who says that a nuclear Iran is not a problem for Israel. Or someone who literally had a Nazi as an admin on their forum. Or someone who puts money given to them in Arab Nazi banks. Or someone who blesses mass murderers like Rabin or Meretz members but condemns the underground fighters of Tag Mechir.

Most of all, it would difficult for me to run with someone who does these things and then claims that this is Kahanism.

I could run with non-Kahanists whom I disagree with on some issues more easily than with fake "Kahanists" who are distorting the ideology of my rabbi, my leader and my mentor.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #42 on:** November 01, 2012, 11:52:32 PM »

What do you mean about him putting money into muslim banks? What is he doing exactly and what is his purpose?

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #43 on:** November 02, 2012, 12:07:14 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 01, 2012, 11:52:32 PM

What do you mean about him putting money into muslim banks? What is he doing exactly and what is his purpose?

בס''ד

I sent money to Baruch Marzel and when my check came back, I noticed that it had been deposited in an Arab Nazi bank. Marzel opened bank accounts in Arab Nazi banks.

A true Kahanist boycotts Arab Nazi businesses.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #44 on:** November 02, 2012, 12:23:19 AM »

Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on November 02, 2012, 12:07:14 AM

בס''ד

I sent money to Baruch Marzel and when my check came back, I noticed that it had been deposited in an Arab Nazi bank. Marzel opened bank accounts in Arab Nazi banks.

A true Kahanist boycotts Arab Nazi businesses.

That is bizarre. Why would he do that?

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #45 on:** November 02, 2012, 01:00:02 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 02, 2012, 12:23:19 AM

That is bizarre. Why would he do that?

Obviously, because he is a Judenrat kapo.

Chaim Ben Pesach · « **Reply #46 on:** November 02, 2012, 01:04:36 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 02, 2012, 12:23:19 AM

That is bizarre. Why would he do that?

בס''ד

Who knows? Maybe they offered a higher interest rate or it was more convenient to bank there for some reason.

edu · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2012, 03:32:48 AM »

Chaim, after months of open for support for Mitt Romney as the lesser of evils, I have difficulty in understanding why you can't apply the same logic to supporting Israeli politicians who at least claim to be Kahanists, even if they have some of the drawbacks that you have already pointed out.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #48 on:** November 02, 2012, 03:37:11 AM »

Quote from: edu on November 02, 2012, 03:32:48 AM

Chaim, after months of open for support for Mitt Romney as the lesser of evils, I have difficulty in understanding why you can't apply the same logic to supporting Israeli politicians who at least claim to be Kahanists, even if they have some of the drawbacks that you have already pointed out.

How is Chaim being inconsistent?

He is opposing the so-called "conservative Republican" Dan Halloran (ysv) because he is an evil piece of crap. He would back an honest liberal Republican or even a pro-Obama Democrat before he would back Halloran, because Halloran is worse.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #49 on:** November 02, 2012, 04:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on November 02, 2012, 01:04:36 AM

בס''ד

Who knows? Maybe they offered a higher interest rate or it was more convenient to bank there for some reason.

I dont know these laws well, nor am I in such a position (to borrow or lend), but perhaps this has to do with the fact that many still hold that a Jew cannot earn interest from another Jew (directly for sure everyone agrees) with a bank still many do hold by that, although some say that with a bank it is different since its a business and has investors etc.
Soo if he was making $ off a bank, he did not want to earn interest from a Jewish bank soo made $ off an Arab bank. Anyway he was making $ off them and not the other way around.
According to Halacha a Jew cannot charge another Jew interest nor can he pay interest to another Jew. With a non-Jew both are allowed. To pay and get paid. Soo maybe he was taking that into consideration since i believe Haredim (most if not all) hold that way and thus would not and do not deal with any Jewish owned bank.

Can you directly speak with him or some of these people and deal with these issues?

http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/41-audiohalakha/234-prosbol-how-can-a-torah-misswah-be-cancelled-
- He holds it is not forbidden for a Jewish Bank to charge interest.
- But never-the-less I did discuss a little about this with another Rabbi and he did say that one should not pay interest to a Jewish owned bank (thus meaning not to borrow from them).