MK Feiglin Explains Attempt to Enter Dome of the Rock

[Yerusha]

Semi-warped Haifa University political pundit Steven Plaut gives his opinion as to why "Feiglin is morphing in to a disgrace"





    The time has come to clear the air about Moshe Feiglin                                                                                    by Steven Plaut

      I have long had ambiguous feelings about Feiglin and his
political activities.  Many are asking me about him these days.  I
would like to explain why Feiglin has morphed into a disgrace.

    I was among the early supporters of Feiglin when he was organizing
anti-Oslo mass street demonstrations as part of what he called the "Zo
Artseinu" organization in the 1990s.  I praised him and his efforts.
I denounced the persecution of Feiglin by the Judicial Left when it
decided to prosecute him for "sedition," after he and his protesters
had blocked a traffic intersection.  I opposed blocking the
intersection on tactical grounds, because it antagonizes people, but
lots of protesters in Israel do it, including the Left and the
Histadrut.  Prosecuting Feiglin for "sedition" because of it was just
an ugly side of Israel's anti-democratic entrenched Left.   In fact I
consider it an act of Leftwing Fascism.  And like most of the outrages
of the Judicial Left, it was carried out under a Likud government.

     I had two serious criticisms of Feiglin's political behavior and
agenda, both of which I think ultimately reflected his poor judgment.
I long ago communicated both criticisms to Feiglin himself directly.
The first is that he failed to distance himself from Kahanists.  His
number two back then, who is still his number two today, is Samuel
Sackett, an open Kahanist.  Feiglin's refusal to distance himself from
Sackett is one reason for Feiglin's chronic weakness and political
failures.  The second problem is that Feiglin is basically a theocrat,
even though he insists he is not, a person whose policies ultimately
rest upon doing politically what he thinks religion requires
(regarding strategic questions) and leaving the rest for God to sort
out.  That is also a self-defeating position.

    Feiglin is a nice guy, a truly religious guy, speaks well, and
most of his other priorities are spot on.

    Feiglin's other perpetual problem is his insistence on running as
part of the Likud, as a small internal opposition to the party machine
that controls Likud, hoping that grassroots support will push him to
power.  He has stubbornly fought this Quixotic battle over and over
again, losing every time,  rather than throwing his support behind
non-Likud smaller movements or parties that are closer to his
political philosophy.  The Likud machine is not so dainty and
vulnerable as he thinks and will always confine him to being little
more than a small nuisance factor within the party.

      All the above explains why Feiglin fails, and it raises
questions about his judgment.  But his newest behavior raises the most
serious questions about his sincerity and integrity.

      The rising star of the Israeli anti-Oslo "Right" is Naftali
Bennett and his Bayit Yehudi (Jewish Home) party.  He has galvanized
not only the rump leftovers from the old National Religious Party, but
he is almost a superstar among secularist college students and other
secularist Zionists in Israel.  He draws listeners to his talks by the
hundreds.  A talk he gave this past week at the Technion, which was
NOT about politics, produced a crowd that overflowed the hall.  He
speaks well, is a bit of a legend in his time (the young Bennett is a
very rich high-tech entrepreneur and he made his money on his own and
honestly, with no political favors).  He is a dynamo, and **THE** guy
worth watching in the coming election.

     Bennett in a sense is also a more-intelligent Feiglin than
Feiglin himself.  He is also religious and militantly anti-Oslo.
(Fair disclosure - Bennett's American parents are friends of mine.)

      A sensible Feiglin would realize that this is the golden
opportunity he always dreamed of.  Bennett is polling at the moment 11
or 12 Knesset seats (out of 120).   Feiglin could pop this up to 20 or
so, making Bennett's party perhaps the second largest in the next
Knesset and the number-two power in the next government, by publicly
breaking with the Likud Party and joining Bennett, calling on his
supporters to do the same.  Feiglin would not be the number one in
such a new party and would need to dump Sackett to join in.  But the
result could be a real political alternative that was honest, clean,
and had an unambiguous anti-Oslo ideological vision.  Unlike most
Likud members, the new party would not consist of incompetents who are
in politics because they are incapable of finding a job.  And a strong
Bennett-led party that absorbed the Feiglin "camp" would be a major
factor in affecting Israeli history over the next decade and beyond.

     Even without the Feiglin support, Bennett and his party already
have Netanyahu foaming at the mouth.  Netanyahu knows that a
middle-sized Bennett party would join his coalition only by shoving it
to the right, blocking Netanyahu's silly ideas about freezing
settlements and appeasing the "Palestinians" or their US State
Department advocates.   Netanyahu's range of maneuver would be sharply
reduced.

     And Netanyahu has been increasingly directing his rhetoric
AGAINST Bennett and Bayit Yehudi, rather than the Labor Party, urging
Israeli voters from the Right (keep in mind the above public opinion
poll) to stick with Likud rather than voting Bennett.

      So where is Feiglin in all this?  The answer is that Feiglin has
agreed to be Netanyahu's button man in attacking Bennett!  After being
spat upon (I had a different bodily emission in mind but decided to
spare you the image) by the Likud leadership for two decades, Feiglin
is suddenly performing Netanyahu's dirty work against Bennett!   Even
though Bennett represents Feiglin's agenda and priorities FAR better
than Bibi.

     You can draw your own conclusions from this.   Mine is that
Feiglin's stock as a political thinker and man of vision is crashing
to the curb.  Feiglin's role in this is a shande.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So let me summarize the irrelevant and Kahane hating Plaut:  if feiglin would just extract Judaism from his platform and reject Torah, then plaut would be ok w him.  Another insane selfhater. And this is the same guy same guy who defends the israeli govts rendition of events about Rabin.  This guy is obsessed with getting respect from the left and enemies of the Jewish people.

[Yerusha]

Feiglin may well be a "useful idiot", and only good things can come from his now using his newly won Knesset-unarrestable immunity to stir up the Arabs by from now on regularly ascending the Har Habayis, since everything, World War III, the Third Temple and the Redemption all depend on our reclaiming the Temple Mount!

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164727

[Yerusha]

"Proud Homophobe Feiglin to meet with Tel Aviv gays"
http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=302222

Barely one day in his MK's seat and the all-corrupting air of the Knesset building is working it's magic, even on a Feiglin!

After this meeting, Feiglin could well become a Homophile!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Feiglin may well be a "useful idiot", and only good things can come from his now using his newly won Knesset-unarrestable immunity to stir up the Arabs by from now on regularly ascending the Har Habayis, since everything, World War III, the Third Temple and the Redemption all depend on our reclaiming the Temple Mount!

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164727

It is evident that you don't understand the meaning of the term "useful idiot" and have misused the term in the context of your rather transparent ranting and raving.

And as to the words themselves taken separately- well I suspect you could be one but definitely not the other.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

"Proud Homophobe Feiglin to meet with Tel Aviv gays"


After this meeting, Feiglin could well become a Homophile!

Why?  Did a gay turn you?
That doesn't happen to straight men.

[Yerusha]

Feiglin has been striving mightily for 20 years to get in to the Knesset, and the very first thing he is does......is to have a photo-op with AIDS-ridden Tel Aviv homosexuals!
http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=302560



How can this be explained?!


"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Vayikra 20)

[muman613]

Feiglin has been striving mightily for 20 years to get in to the Knesset, and the very first thing he is does......is to have a photo-op with AIDS-ridden Tel Aviv homosexuals!
http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=302560



How can this be explained?!

Political pressures... The article you posted doesn't give the impression that he agreed with their position. I would like to know what was discussed before making a judgment call on this issue.

[edu]

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=302560

Feiglin tells 'Post': I am not a homophobe

In discussion with LGBT community, Likud MK says he will support protection of LGBT "human rights," but not "values."

I don't know how Feiglin fits in with Vayikra {Leviticus} 20:13
Jerusalem Bible translation:

If a man also lie with a man, as one lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[muman613]

I couldn't find any pictures of Feiglin 'morphing' but I did find these:








Wow, get me an aspirin please..

[muman613]

One more 'morphing' joke...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=302560I don't know how Feiglin fits in with Vayikra {Leviticus} 20:13
Jerusalem Bible translation:

 This is what the article continued to say:

Feiglin promised to support legislation that would protect what he described as the “human rights” issues the LGBT community faced, such as discrimination, and the plight of youth thrown out of their homes over their sexuality.

With issues of “values,” however, the gaps appeared unbridgeable.

“When we’re talking about the human issues, the human rights, that’s where I see myself helping you,” Feiglin said. “When you’re trying to change the value system, that pushes me into the closet!” Families, he stated, are the foundation stone of society and the nation, and he said he would not do anything to harm what he called the “classic” family structure of one man, one woman and their children.
________________________________________________


 Soo I do not see the problem with what he was saying. Facts are that we don't put these people to trial without a proper Sanhedrin. Your question can also be asked of people or kids who are not Shomer Shabbous because the punishments are the same basically. I don't see a problem with what he was and is saying here. They do not need to face discrimination etc. but at the same time they should not promote their "values" unto society and change the family structure (like adoption etc.) or make their "pride" parades.

[edu]

Tag-MehirTzedek
stated:
 

Soo I do not see the problem with what he was saying. Facts are that we don't put these people to trial without a proper Sanhedrin. Your question can also be asked of people or kids who are not Shomer Shabbous because the punishments are the same basically. I don't see a problem with what he was and is saying here. They do not need to face discrimination etc. but at the same time they should not promote their "values" unto society and change the family structure (like adoption etc.) or make their "pride" parades.

We don't have a Sanhedrin today that executes evil individuals, but even after the Sanhedrin was long gone, Jewish communities whenever they had the power, provided some form of punishment or social sanction for those involved in what the Torah defined as very evil activities.
I also point you to Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat 425:5 to show that it is not so simple that because we don't have a Sanhedrin .....
But rather the current tolerance of the Jewish community is generally based on the Chazon Ish's idea of "the Kidnapped Baby" concept as well as other factors which I won't bring up. And I am told (not having seen his works on this in the original Hebrew) that even Chazon Ish doesn't apply the Kidnapped Baby concept to Mumar Lehakhis.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Tag-MehirTzedek
stated:
 
We don't have a Sanhedrin today that executes evil individuals, but even after the Sanhedrin was long gone, Jewish communities whenever they had the power, provided some form of punishment or social sanction for those involved in what the Torah defined as very evil activities.

That's still the case today.  In religious communities gays do not feel socially accepted because their choices are openly rejected by the community.  That wouldn't change by whatever legislation feiglin has in mind.  Further, the people he is meeting with are chilonim.  They do not subject themselves to rabbis or Torah so they do not care what sources we have.  You can make citations from now until the messiah comes, their lobby is not going to disappear because you cite shulchan aruch.   Feiglin is openly telling them I reject your values and will not let them infiltrate society.   Lol if you were in america you would understand just how valuable that is and how rare!

But rather the current tolerance of the Jewish community is generally based on the Chazon Ish's idea of "the Kidnapped Baby" concept as well as other factors which I won't bring up. And I am told (not having seen his works on this in the original Hebrew) that even Chazon Ish doesn't apply the Kidnapped Baby concept to Mumar Lehakhis.

He didn't consider todays chilonim as mumar lehakhis!  That's the whole point.  And chazon ish was not alone on this.

[Yerusha]

"Feiglin: I Hope Likud Will be in Bibi’s Coalition!"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165462

Already 35 years ago R.Kahane called Likud neveliah (a dead carcass) and Prof Eidelberg said that by sticking with Likud, Feiglin is an idiot wasting whatever talents he has by literally flogging a dead horse!

[cjd]

For the most part people don't actually morph into a disgrace after a time they just show the true colors they had all along.

[Yerusha]

For all his failings, Feiglin shows courage in keeping things simmering by repeatedly ascending the Har Habayis http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165856
and now incurring the wrath of the verminous Haredi MK Porush who wants Pipi to throw him out of the Likud for enraging the Arabs: the more polarization the better!

[edu]

Although I am not a supporter of Feiglin due to other issues, I do think he deserves some credit in trying to reconquer the Temple Mount
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165848

MK Feiglin Explains Attempt to Enter Dome of the Rock
"I am not calling on Jews to begin making pilgrimage to the location of the Temple itself," MK wrote.
By Gil Ronen
First Publish: 3/4/2013, 12:26 PM

Moshe Feiglin (Likud) explained on his Facebook page Monday why he asked to enter the Dome of the Rock, which is located atop the spot where the Holy of Holies of the Jewish Temple stood.

Entry into the actual area where the Jewish Temple stood is strictly forbidden by all major streams in Judaism, and this is doubly true as regards the area of the Holy of Holies.

MK Feiglin explained, however, that in attempting to enter the Dome of the Rock, he is relying on statements by Rabbi Shlomo Goren Z"l, who was the Chief Rabbi of the IDF and Israel's Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi.
"In the introduction to his book, 'The Temple Mount,' Rabbi Goren ztz"l wrote: 'There is no doubt that in a case such as this, when there is a danger of a takeover by foreigners of Har Hamoriah [the Temple Mount], it is permitted even to enter the zone of the Azara [which includes the Temple building itself and the place of the altar], so as not to give them a foothold on the Mount of G-d, because the ascent of Jews to the Mount in this situation is considered an act of conquest and prevention of a foreign takeover of [the Mount]."

[muman613]

I saw this and it is good he is keeping the issue in the spotlight...

WE must regain sovereignty of the Temple mount.

[Dr. Dan]

 

Right now, he is the best Israel has.

[Yerusha]

At least Feiglin is doing something to keep the Holiest Place in the Universe at the focus of people's attention!
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Feiglin-suspends-himself-from-coalition-over-Temple-Mt-ban-311740

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It'll be interesting to see how Feiglin, who is ostensibly a "Closet Kahanist", handles his new job as Deputy Knesset Speaker http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/166335
when b*tch Hanin Zoabi gets up to the podium to spout slyly couched anti-Israel rhetoric: will Feiglin be able to keep his cool and remain polite, patient, diplomatic and democratic, as is required of a Parliamentary Speaker.

Or will he blow his pro-Kahanist top & lose his job, & even be charged with "racism"?!

Feiglin's not an idiot.   Zoabi is not our problem.  Zoabi is the leftists' problem.  She constantly reminds them that Arabs will never accept Israel.   Feiglin already knows that.  In some ways Zoabi speaks for us by being an honest arab nationalist and Jew-hater in the knesset.  It shows the absolute absurdity of a "State of the Jews" which would allow an arab majority to vote it out of existence and which allows our enemies to be knesset members.

[Yerusha]

At least Feiglin is doing something to keep the Holiest Place in the Universe at the focus of people's attention!
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Feiglin-suspends-himself-from-coalition-over-Temple-Mt-ban-311740