Questions about Chassidim

[Mein Koran]

1) what percentage of chassidim/charedim are against the existence of the state of Israel?

2) why don't chassidim/charedim serve in the Israeli army?

3) what percent of charedim are chassidim?

[muman613]

1) what percentage of chassidim/charedim are against the existence of the state of Israel?

2) why don't chassidim/charedim serve in the Israeli army?

3) what percent of charedim are chassidim?

1) A small percentage.... Chabad/Lubavitch & Breslov are two of the largest Chassidic groups today. They are both pro-Israel.

2) They do serve in the IDF... This is why they have Nahal Charadie... I have posted numerous videos which demonstrate the contribution of the Charadie to the defense of the nation.

3) I don't know this answer...

[muman613]

[muman613]

The reason many Charadie do not fight, as I have explained numerous times also, is because they do not recognize the secular Jewish state as having any religious standing to exist. There is a concept in Judaism called the 'Three Oaths' which establish promises that the Jewish people make to Hashem concerning the Exile from the land. One of these oaths is not to take the land by force, against the will of the nations of the world. Some of these Charadie sects have been in the land from long before the modern state was established (1948) some go back to the medieval times (12-1500) during the 1st aliyah. When the secular zionists created the state they did not recognize it as the actual beginning of the redemption because secular zionists do not keep the Torah, they violate many of the commandments (Shabbat and Yom Tov most vividly) and they look down on the religious Jews... In some ways I understand why they are anti-Zionist.

I am happily a religious Zionist who believes that the redemption has begun. I believe that the three oaths were violated by the nations of the world because one of the oaths is that the nations not oppress the Jewish people too harshly (and we have repeatedly been oppressed brutally during these 2000 years of exile). I rebuke those Jews who cling onto the three oaths as a reason to reject the modern state.
 

[Super Mentalita]

I have a lot to learn.... lok

[muman613]

Here is more on the Nahal Charadie unit.

[muman613]

Another issue is that the IDF hardly makes any accomodations to the religious lifestyle. Charadie men do not mingle with women, nor do they work with them, or listen to them singing. This causes problems because the IDF is a mixed force, and the Charadie men will not compromise sexual morality or tzniut (modesty) issues. Also IDF doesn't allow them to observe the Shabbat as the custom of Orthodox Judaism requires. There are numerous reasons that a special Charadie unit must be formed.

[muman613]

Here is an in-depth discussion of these three oaths which have hung-up a lot of Jews concerning the modern state.

http://www.kby.org/hebrew/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=4001

Moreover, even if the Ramban is correct, there are the "three oaths" mentioned in Ketuvot 111a, that the Jewish People will not return to Israel with force. This Gemara is the basis of the Satmar Rebbe, as explained at length in his work, "Vayo'el Moshe." (The name is an allusion to the pasuk in Shemot 2:21 and Rashi there, that Moshe swore to Yitro that he would not leave him without permission.) Thus, we cannot take land without permission. Furthermore, even according to Ramban the current political circumstances are not considered control anyway – to do as you wish, which we cannot do. For example, there is mitzvah to destroy Avoda Zara; can we destroy the churches?! We are not allowed to leave non-Jews in Israel; can we transfer them, or even travel in security?! Thus, we are not fulfilling the mitzvah properly anyway, and thus we should consider pikuach nefesh – if indeed it will lead to peace.

This ruling led to a wave of Rabbinic literature. Rav Shaul Yisraeli responded that he respects Rav Ovadia Yosef greatly, but the Ramban writes explicitly that the mitzvah applies even in the time of galut, even though was aware of the "three oaths." It is true that the Avnei Nezer writes that due to the "three oaths" there cannot be a mitzvah to settle Israel even on the individual, since if it were incumbant on each individual – they form the group! This is not clear, though, since Rashi explains the oath precludes returning with force in battle. But if an individual goes – this is not through force!

In addition, the Balfour Declaration, and, afterwards, the League of Nations addressed the division of the world after the World War. The major representatives of the Leauge of Nations decided in the San Remo Conference that Israel belongs to Jewish People as a national homeland, and meanwhile awarded the mandate to England to capture it from the Turks, who had sided with Germany, and ultimately return it to the Jews. Amongst the great majority of Jews there was great joy. In Agudat Yisrael, there were many enthusiastic calls. In a letter on behalf of KKL, the Ohr Sameach writes after the San Remo Conference "the fear of the oaths is removed." I.e., the oath is not that Jews will not leave Poland with force to go to Israel, but that they should not battle against the nation that is in control of Israel. But if the League of Nations grants the Land to the Jewish People – we are no longer bound.

We should also take note of the phrase, "the fear of the oaths." What does he mean by fear? Is it permissible or not? He should have said that the prohibition is over. Rav Zvi Yehuda explained that there is no real prohibition, since an oath cannot be superimposed upon a prior oath, and since we are under oath to settle Israel – we cannot be put under oath not to! If, according to the Ramban, there is a mitzvah for generations – there cannot be a prohibition!

The Rambam explains: "I have put you under oath." The Jews will want to come to Israel before the time on account of the troubles of galut. G-d warns them against this as if they were put under oath.

Thus, the oaths are no longer relevant. Even if later the nations were to retract their consent, once they granted permission – it is too late for them to retract. Thus, the argument of the three oaths is no longer valid.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

1) what percentage of chassidim/charedim are against the existence of the state of Israel?

2) why don't chassidim/charedim serve in the Israeli army?

3) what percent of charedim are chassidim?

 1) dont know.
 2) Complicated answer with different motivations involved. Some because they simple have an excuse to skipp it (as many secular do as well). Others because in general mistrust of the system and the secular leaders involved and the history involved as well. While others are exempt because of Torah learning which would exempt them from doing other Misswoth because they are bussy doing these Misswoth (Torah learning is considered higher).
 3) Do not know exactly. I also think their is some misconception as well about the Hassidim on these matters since at times it seems to me that within the Haredim (at least Askenasi Haredim- leaving out the Litvaks) some of these groups are more pro-Israel.
 Also their are the Sefardi "Haredim" as well and that is a whole different ball game. (Most Shas voters do serve- actually most or many of them are not even classified as Haredim.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

[kahaneloyalist]

In the first few years of the State many Charedim were very sympathetic or even supportive of the State of Israel. As one example the Chazon Ish in his meeting with Ben Gurion said he would officially rule all young men should serve in the IDF if women wouldn't be drafted. But Ben Gurion refused.

The Gur Chasidim, said Hallel with a bracha for 3 years following the declaration of the state but stopped because of the behavior of the government.

But some Charedim such as Satmar are against any form of Jewish sovereignty until Mashiach comes.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  I would also like to add (and this is a negative unfortunately). The attitudes and ways that were picked up and absorbed because of the galut as well in that many beliefs that developed were pacifistic in nature. The Gaula became one big thing with open miracles and Temple falling down from heaven (as some still believe till this day). Because of all the persecution of all these years these type of ideas developed and were taught as bringing the Geula. Even still taught till this day.

 Also about the "3 oaths" I believe it had and has more to do with other factors then supposedly those "oaths". Like explained before they were never binding and even if they were broken by the nations and freed Israel on our part.
 But that is besides the point.  Many felt threatened about this new secular movement that emphasized about being a nation and dropping the Torah.  Besides the Mizrachi movement which was seen as irrelevant this is what took place. With these people (offshots of the "Haskallah" soo-called "enlightenment" movement) they dropped the Torah and made these new ideologies. It was big with all sorts of books and songs and basically european type socialist idealism devoid of the Torah and looking at the Religious Jews with scorn. Soo this was a challenge and competition if you will to the Torah and Torah world. At that time the "Kibbutznik" was seen as some macho man, and savior of the Jewish people and people in a way looked up to them and wanted to be them.
 As with all secular off-shots of the real thing- the Torah all these ideologies spring up for some time and then die out. You see this with the deform, with other movements even from thousands of years ago. They have some truth to them and then they die out. Same with the secular "zionist" movement as well. Today the religious have nothing to fear from them and instead should be taking over the country and making it fully REAL Jewish. This is our opportunity.

[muman613]

Tag,

There are two opinions regarding how the Third Temple will be rebuilt and there is no problem reconciling both interpretations.

http://www.thirdtemple.com/whatisit.html

Regarding the rebuilding of the Third Temple envisioned in the prophecies of Yechezkel (Yechezkel chs. 40-48), there are two opinions: One view maintains that the future Beis HaMikdash will be built by the Holy One, blessed is He, Himself (Shemos Rabbah 15:1; Tanchuma, Ki Tissa 13). Similarly, the greatest of the classic commentators, Rashi, writes that the future Temple which we eagerly await, stands in the heavens fully built and exquisitely decorated, and from there it will descend. This is the meaning of the verse (Shemos 16:17), "The Sanctuary, O [G-d], which Your hands have established" (commentary to Sukkah 41a). The Gemara (Rosh HaShanah 30a) also endorses this view: "The future Temple is in the hands of Heaven."

In contrast, another view maintains that the future Temple will be built by man, as the Rambam states explicitly (Pirush HaMishnah, Introduction; Hilchos Melachim). This opinion is based on the Midrash (Vayikra Rabbah 9) which states explicitly that Mashiach, the Messiah of flesh and blood, will build the Third Temple.

Tiferes Yisrael (Middos) offers a solution to this dilemma by explaining that the Holy One, blessed is He, will help the Jewish people in a miraculous way to rebuild the Beis HaMikdash. In this vein, the author of Aruch l'Ner (Sukkah 41a) writes: The future Beis HaMikdash will certainly be built by man. And regarding the verse, "The Sanctuary, O [G-d], which Your hands have established," from which the Midrash Tanchuma learns that it will descend from Heaven, refers to the _spiritual_ Temple which will descend and become infused in the physical building, like a soul within a body!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

What was the " Mizrachi movement "?

[muman613]

What was the " Mizrachi movement "?

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/modern_zionism/

After the Fifth Zionist Congress in 1901, a group of religious Zionist, in an attempt to synthesize modern Jewish national with traditional Jewish identity founded the Mizrachi Movement ion 1902 ( an abbreviation for the words merkaz ruchani-“spiritual center”). The Mizrachi manifesto stated:

In the lands of the Diaspora the soul of our people-our Holy Torah-can no longer be preserved in its full strength, nor can the commandments, which comprise the entire spiritual life of the people, be kept in their original purity…The people have found one remedy for this affliction-to direct their hearts to that one place which has always been the focus of our prayers…Zion and Jerusalem…It has therefore been agreed by all those who love the spirit of their people and are faithful to their God’s Torah, that the reawakening of the hope of the return to Zion will provide a solid foundation as well as lend a special quality to our people. It will serve as a focus for the ingathering of our spiritual forces and as a secure fortress for our Torah and sanctity.[5]

Today the Mizrachi movement has evolved into the religious -nationalist movement Israel, whose adherents wear knitted kippot (skullcaps) and comprise the vast majority of the religiously right-wing settler movement.

[ChabadKahanist]

What was the " Mizrachi movement "?

Mizrachi HaPoel HaMizrachi National Religious today know as the Jewish Home