Author Topic: gilad shalit should be jailed  (Read 2688 times)

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Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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gilad shalit should be jailed
« on: March 29, 2013, 07:39:51 AM »
Gilad shalit did not follow orders he hid in his tank prayed for the attack to be over and when he left the tank he didn't even take out his weapon. He should be jailed

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Gilad-Schalits-capture-In-his-own-words-308015


Former soldier gives military investigators an account of the attack that led to his capture and the deaths of two of his comrades.
Gilad Schalit arrives from captivity Photo: REUTERS/Handout In conversations with a psychologist after his return to Israel from five years in captivity, Gilad Schalit expressed fears over the IDF investigation he would undergo. Schalit knew exactly what he was worried about – he knew all too well the circumstances that led to his captivity. He knew that there was no military glory in what had happened there, on that night. He knew that he did not do his duty as an IDF combat soldier and did not even do the minimum to prevent his own capture.

Click here for original article in Hebrew

Schalit knew that he had effectively given himself up on June 25, 2006, been taken captive without firing even one bullet, despite the fact that he could have prevented the entire situation with relative ease. He was very concerned indeed over his meeting with the military investigators.

But in contrast to other cases of soldiers being taken prisoner or abducted, the IDF was handling Schalit with kid gloves.

The soldier had become “the child of us all,” whose years of absence were etched on the national consciousness – and it was a sentiment that had infected the IDF as well.

There weren’t real investigations; there were neither interrogation rooms nor investigative tricks. Schalit was not subjected to the same treatment as former Hezbollah captive Elhanan Tannenbaum, for example. He was treated as the nation’s sweetheart.

The experts who examined Schalit identified his fears and alerted the investigators to possible trauma. He continued his military service. He became a superstar, with a life of privilege.

He delighted in the massive wave of warmth that washed over him, all the benefits that were showered upon him. He had given years of his life to his country; it may not have been a voluntary act, but even so it was one that was duly noted.

The day of his release, October 18, 2011, became a kind of national holiday. Traffic of streets was at a standstill, the collective tears of happiness flowed freely and even IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz branded him a “hero.”

Watching Schalit’s return, it was impossible not to have been teary-eyed. It happened to me, too, despite my years of writing opinion pieces against the deal-in-the-making, and even presenting a list of arguments as to why a rational country could not take such a step of capitulation. It seemed to me to be a national failure.

But ultimately, and after changing his own stance and betraying his own ideological principles, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu decided to pay the high price for Schalit’s freedom. Even today, I still don’t know if he did the right thing.

In the meantime, another intifada hasn’t broken out, and Israel has survived Schalit’s release. True, some of the prisoners who were freed have since been re-arrested, and launched a hunger strike that threatens to ignite the Palestinian territories, but the bottom line is that the soldier came home and started a new life, and Israeli society held firm to the solidarity for which is it famous. Only history can judge who was right, if it is at all appropriate to say if anyone in this whole affair was in the right.

This story is the story of Gilad Schalit. This is his version, as told to the IDF investigators who questioned him. As stated, he feared his encounters with them; he was ashamed of what he had to tell them, yet he did so with an honesty that truly inspires respect. He didn’t try to conceal the truth; he told them he’d failed and acknowledged that he had not done his duty. He said this willingly, without any coercion or pressure.

Schalit has a phenomenal memory, he knows exactly what happened on each day of his captivity, when he was moved from place to place, what he ate, what was done and what happened.

And thus, for his interrogators, Gilad Schalit went over the details of the attack that led to his capture. Here is Schalit’s version, almost in its entirety (which the exception of the details that were redacted by the censor).

The attack took place in the pre-dawn darkness. Schalit’s tank crew was on guard duty outside the Gaza Strip. During the night, the crew took it in turns to rest – two keeping watch and two sleeping.

With the dawn, everyone was supposed to be awake, in his place and battle ready. At this stage, there is a communications check with the rest of the troops in the field, as well as with the operations room, and everyone reports that they are ready. This is what Schalit’s tank team should have been doing.

In reality, just one of the four-man team was awake – the rest were sleeping the sleep of the just. The driver was in the driver’s seat, the gunner (Schalit) was in his place, the comms guy in his and the commander in the commander’s turret.

Schalit was what is known in the army as “rosh katan” (literally, small head, and meaning someone with little or no initiative).

He was assigned for operational duty without knowing what was going on around him, the makeup of the area, or where the enemy lay. He had attended meetings and briefings before setting out on the mission, but had not immersed himself in the details. He was, after all, a member of a team, and trusted in his commander.

If he had listened to the company commander of the sector, who had issued detailed briefings, he would have known that there had been an explicit warning from the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) about a possible Hamas infiltration from Gaza, perhaps via a tunnel, and an attempt to kidnap a soldier. If he had been aware that in his vicinity – and just a few minutes away – there were reinforcements, perhaps it could have changed the face of the battle and even prevented the abduction.

In the briefing before the operation, it was clearly stated where everyone was located in the field, the deployment layout and more. A unit from the Engineering Corps had been situated 200 meters from Schalit’s tank, next to the border fence, throughout the night. Col. Avi Peled, the senior commander in the sector, who was suffering from a manpower shortage, had wanted to give back-up to the tanks in the field, and had brought in the team from the Engineering Corps, assigned as a personal favor.

It would have been possible for Schalit to call on this backup, had he known that they were there, but he had not been paying attention when the information was imparted.

“I didn’t listen,” he admitted to the investigators. “The commander was listening, and that was enough. I trusted him.”

When the attack began, he was sleeping in his gunner’s seat, deep inside the tank. His personal weapon was on the floor underneath him; he wasn’t wearing his helmet, his bullet- proof vest was hanging on the back of the chair, and maybe his flak jacket was on. Maybe not.

As it turns out, the vest and the flak jacket saved his life. Schalit went to sleep at 4:35 a.m. Until then, he had been on guard in the commander’s post, and had been relieved by a team member. Twenty-five minutes later, he was awoken by the impact of a rocket-propelled grenade striking the tank. He looked up to see the tank commander, Lt. Hanan Barak, and the driver, St.-Sgt. Pavel Slutzker, climbing out of the tank at speed.

“Gilad, get out of the tank!” Barak yelled at him. From beneath him, he could hear the voice of Cpl. Roi Amitai, calling “Hanan, Hanan,” but Barak and Slutzker were already out.

The command to leave the tank contravened operational orders. An RPG cannot do significant damage to a Merkava 3 tank, and this was a light strike on the side. Yes, it caused shock and agitation, but even so, this was no reason to abandon the tank – it wasn’t on fire, the grenade had caused minimal damage, the electronic systems were working, and no one on the team had been wounded.

Following the attack, after it was all over, an army technician went to the tank, turned on the engine and drove it away. The tank that Schalit had been in was capable of continuing to fight. A tank like this is a powerful war machine, with an effective, precise and swift cannon; it has three machine guns, primed and ready at the touch of the trigger, not to mention all the other advanced weaponry on board.

And yet the crew fled. I’m not here to place blame. Under fire and in the heat of battle, people make mistakes, people don’t always stick to their orders; it has happened, does happen and will happen in every Israeli war. It was a judgment call at that moment, and ultimately, that call cost Hanan Barak and Pavel Slutzker their lives. Two people died in the tank attack, and their names far less familiar to Israelis than that of the captive for whose protection they made the ultimate sacrifice.

The officers questioning the post-captivity Schalit asked him if he had left the tank.

“No, I didn’t leave,” he replied.

“Why?” “Because the tank seemed safer than there, outside,” he said. “Outside is dangerous. Inside was protected.”

With the departure of Barak and Slutzker, Schalit heard the rattle of light weapons being fired. It was this gunfire that killed the two crew members, and they fell from the tank onto the ground. Schalit heard them fall, then quiet, and realized that the two, one of whom was his commander, were either dead or seriously wounded.

Cpl. Roi Amitai, who had been fast asleep at the time of the attack, was trapped in his spot in the tank. Schalit understood that he was alone. He decided to stay in the tank, and not get out and fight.

He had options, however, from inside. There was the machine gun, set up to be operated by the gunner without any need to stick his head out of the vehicle; he could have let off a few rounds and let the world know that the Merkava was still operational and in the fight. Yet he stayed put, in his seat, and hoped for the best.

Outside, at the same time, there were a total of two militants. The cell which had infiltrated from Gaza was seven strong. Two struck at an IDF post, wounded several soldiers and tried to flee. Both died.

Three more attacked an empty IDF armored personnel carrier some distance away, and the other two hit the tank. If the tank crew had remained inside the tank, it would have been easy to take out their attackers.

Even Schalit, alone as he was, should have been able to manage it. At this point Schalit was sitting in the gunner’s seat, praying for it to just be over. Then one of militants approached and threw two or three grenades into the turret. Schalit doesn’t recall the explosion of the grenades, but he does remember the smoke very well.

His bullet-proof vest and his flak jacket, hanging on the back of the chair, absorbed most of the impact. The chair was completely shredded.

Schalit, miraculously, was lightly wounded with shrapnel in his elbow and rear. He was scared, shocked. He stayed in the tank for a minute or two until the smoke spread throughout the turret and he found it hard to breathe. Then he decided, finally, to leave. He left unarmed. His gun, a deadly M-16, he left on the floor of the turret. In military terms, this is called abandoning your weapon.

If only Schalit had taken his gun with him when he left the tank; if only he had seen the militant approach the tank and start to climb up it. He could have taken him out easily, but he was not in battle mode. This is what Schalit himself told the investigators. Schalit’s tank did not fire a single bullet.

Translated by Sara Miller.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline realist26

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
It is quite amazing that he even made it into a combat unit.  You only have to look at him to see he is unfit to be a soldier.  Yes, he should be made to complete his military service in prison

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 01:42:41 PM »
I think he was in on it with his captors.

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 05:44:18 PM »
Amazing that he didn't fire one bullet...this is really weird.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 05:52:41 PM »
I think he was in on it with his captors.

....could be.

It makes one wonder how he did in fact manage to negotiate his own life

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2013, 06:11:37 PM »
To say this was on purpose is insane, but he did panic and was not able to withstand the pressure. This is an example of the pathetic joke the army allowed itself to become. This is what happens when the army forgets whom it is fighting and what it is fighting for. 
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 06:54:48 PM »
To say this was on purpose is insane, but he did panic and was not able to withstand the pressure. This is an example of the pathetic joke the army allowed itself to become. This is what happens when the army forgets whom it is fighting and what it is fighting for.

Not on purpose, but people act to save their own necks in ways that we might not imagine until we were there.  I think he froze and then went into survival mode, though I wish he had paid a bit more attention to his JOB.  Other people did their jobs when they imprisoned 1000 Arab terrorists.  How do those victim's families feel now.  I can't judge Gilad Shalit or his father, but that was anything but a fair trade.  You know it, I know it, and the Jew Haters especially know it

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2013, 08:00:01 PM »
....could be.

It makes one wonder how he did in fact manage to negotiate his own life
Muslim terror entities do not have much of a history of keeping Israeli captives alive. This is why I am skeptical that he was truly a totally unwilling prisoner. Israel is full of kapos and this little punk is certainly one of them. Who knows what he arranged.

Offline muman613

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2013, 08:13:38 PM »
Muslim terror entities do not have much of a history of keeping Israeli captives alive. This is why I am skeptical that he was truly a totally unwilling prisoner. Israel is full of kapos and this little punk is certainly one of them. Who knows what he arranged.

Although it is no secret that the terrorists have been plotting to kidnap an IDF soldier and ransom him for terrorist prisoners. I do not believe he worked with the enemy and according to the recounting it seemed he lost his nerve and messed up royally.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/18-attempts-in-four-months-to-kidnap-israeli-soldiers/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3391544,00.html

They kidnapped Nachson Wachsman in 1994...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachshon_Wachsman

Quote
At home on a leave, Wachsman was instructed by the military to attend a one-day training course in northern Israel. He left Saturday night after the Shabbat and told his parents he would return Sunday night, 9 October 1994. He was last seen by a friend who reported that, after completing the training, Wachsman had been dropped off at the Bnai Atarot junction, a highly populated area in central Israel, where he could either catch a bus or hitchhike, a common practice by Israeli soldiers,[2] to Jerusalem.

Israeli intelligence learned that Wachsman entered a car with Hamas militants wearing kippot, a Bible and siddur on the dashboard, and Chassidic music playing.[1]

Mohammed Deif stated that he was the commander of the operation to abduct Wachsman.[3]
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2013, 08:25:22 PM »
Hamas has been plotting to kidnap IDF soldiers for over 20 years now...



http://www.idfblog.com/2012/05/03/today-23-years-ago-idf-soldier-abducted-killed-hamas-militants/

.
.

Today, 23 years ago, Cpl. Ilan Saadon was hitchhiking on a road near his base. Hamas terrorists abducted him and headed for the Gaza Strip. They killed him during the ride. His body was buried in the area of Palmachim; it was found 7 years later, on August 12, 1996.

The Hamas terrorist organization was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in 1987. In the beginning of the first Intifada in the late 1980s, Yassin ordered his men to abduct and kill as many Israeli soldiers as they could. On May 3, 1989, Ilan and his friend hitched a ride in Re’em (Masmia) junction — common behavior in those days, since public transportation was inconvenient.

A white Subaru with Israeli license plates stopped by the junction. Inside the car, Hamas terrorists Mahmoud Mabhouh and Muhammad Nasser, disguised as orthodox Jews, offered only Ilan a ride, as there was space for only one more passenger. Ilan parted from his friend and got in the car.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 09:27:54 PM »
Yeah they kidnap Jewish soldiers all the time. The only thing is up until Shalit, none of them lived more than a couple hours in captivity. I smell a huge rat--a Judenrat to be precise.

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 08:23:33 PM »
Yeah they kidnap Jewish soldiers all the time. The only thing is up until Shalit, none of them lived more than a couple hours in captivity. I smell a huge rat--a Judenrat to be precise.


 The Arabs got smart and knew they can get hugg ransom in return, that is why kidnapping instead of the usual murder was their target goal.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline realist26

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Re: gilad shalit should be jailed
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 10:24:32 AM »
Latest news is apparently he handed himself over to the terrorists.  He was also staying with families in gaza and had Internet access!