Anders Behring Breivik: What the media tries to hide

[Israel Chai]

If this report is true I need to reconsider...

http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2011/07/norway-utoya-island-youth-camp-connected-with-fatah.html

The camp, run by Norway’s left-wing party, was lobbying for breaking the blockade of the terrorist Hamas regime in the Gaza Strip and for immediate recognition of a Palestinian state without that entity needing do anything that would prevent it from being a terrorist base against Israel. They were backing and justifying forces that had committed terrorism against Israelis and killing thousands of people like themselves. [snip]

The Oslo Syndrome can be defined the opposite of the Stockholm Syndrome. Instead of being a target of terrorism and then changing views to support the terrorists’ side, it means—individually, as part of a movement, or as an entire country—supporting the terrorists’ side then being victims of terrorism. (continue reading at Rubin Reports)

They certainly deserved it, but I think this was planned to hurt the counter-jihad movement. No way he pulled off the car bombing, and then everything else by himself. Could this be an example of the wicked attacking the wicked to hurt the righteous, only to play into the plan of G-d? I can not take a definitive stance without further information, and would caution the same for others. We can judge the details as they come along, but context changes everything.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

They certainly deserved it, but I think this was planned to hurt the counter-jihad movement. No way he pulled off the car bombing, and then everything else by himself. Could this be an example of the wicked attacking the wicked to hurt the righteous, only to play into the plan of G-d? I can not take a definitive stance without further information, and would caution the same for others. We can judge the details as they come along, but context changes everything.

 Look at the video, he was a trained and decorated soldier. when their is a strong will their is a way. Soo stop with the BS conspiracies. Anyway in my opinion it probably had little affect in either direction. Its mostly forgotten anyway. 

[edu]

The Torah in Breishit (Genesis) 34:25 describes Shimon and Levi when they fought against the city of Schem (some spell it Schechem) by the term  איש (pronounced as, eesh) which means man.
Rabbi Dovid Ganz (writing in Prague, Jewish year 5352, or secular year 1592) does the calculation in his book Tzemach Dovid (on the Biblical year 2207) that Shimon and Levi according to Jewish sources were no more than 13 or 14 years old at the time.
Yet the Torah defines them as men, that is to say adults.
Judaism defines being an adult at a much lower age than the definitions used in Western Cultures.
So whatever you want to say about the Norway incident, keep out the issue that they were kids.
According to Torah standards they were adults.

[muman613]

The Torah in Breishit (Genesis) 34:25 describes Shimon and Levi when they fought against the city of Schem (some spell it Schechem) by the term  איש (pronounced as, eesh) which means man.
Rabbi Dovid Ganz (writing in Prague, Jewish year 5352, or secular year 1592) does the calculation in his book Tzemach Dovid (on the Biblical year 2207) that Shimon and Levi according to Jewish sources were no more than 13 or 14 years old at the time.
Yet the Torah defines them as men, that is to say adults.
Judaism defines being an adult at a much lower age than the definitions used in Western Cultures.
So whatever you want to say about the Norway incident, keep out the issue that they were kids.
According to Torah standards they were adults.

My entire issue is whether these can be considered Rodefim or not. I am trying to learn more about the laws concerning the Rodef and whether it can be applied to this case.


http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1088917/jewish/Chapter-One.htm

[Zelhar]

I know that the youth camp was filled with anti Israel slogans. I still don't agree with the killing, even though I can't say I feel sorry for them because they supported Arab terrorists and justified murdering Israelis.

[Super Mentalita]

I apologize because it seems there is ample evidence that there were terror/jihad connections to the camp...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/12788#.UbFLe-dDtfQ

Preaching Israel-Hatred at Norway's Terror Island

Interview with Ivar Fjeld, Norwegian journalist who wrote a book on the Utoya Island massacre:"The Red youth movement invited youngsters from the Palestinian Popular Front of Palestine (PFLP) to participate in their camp."
From Dr. Manfred Gerstenfeld

“On July 22nd 2011, Norwegian fascist terrorist Anders Behring Breivik killed 69 youngsters at a camp of the AUF youth wing of Labor – the leading government party – on the island of Utoya. This camp served as a venue to inculcate party ideology into the minds of children from 14 years and up. Later it became known internationally that part of this included promoting anti-Israel sentiments.”

Ivar Fjeld is a gentile Norwegian journalist. He was formerly a local leader of the AUF and was media advisor to Labor politician Olaf Akselsen when he was minister of Oil and Energy in 2001. His book "The Red and Green Terror Island" was released at the beginning of 2013. It discusses the history of what happened on Utoya Island.

“I was raised in a traditional, secular Norwegian family. Until 2004 when I re-discovered our Christian origins, I was an admirer of Yasser Arafat. We were however, always moderates and never believed that violence should be used as a political tool. At a certain point in 2006, the AUF broke away from its moderate traditions and turned sharply left.

“The AUF owns Utoya Island and its facilities. As a local AUF leader, I participated in this camp in 1986 and 1987. Even at that time there were Palestinian participants. They used drugs and shared them with Norwegian youngsters. We complained about it to then-Labor Youth Secretary General Mr. Stale Dokken, but he and his colleagues preferred to hush it up.

“In 2007, the AUF began to rent out the facilities on Utoya. As an ideological movement, they should have been selective about to whom they were willing to make the place available. One of the organizations to which it was rented however, was the youth movement of the small Norwegian communist Red party (Rodt). Its members included Leninists, Marxists and Maoists.

“The Red youth movement invited youngsters from the Palestinian Popular Front of Palestine (PFLP) to participate in their camp. The PFLP is listed as a terrorist organization by the United States, the European Union, Canada and the U.K. Money was collected for the PFLP at the camp. I have documents and pictures which prove this.

“The AUF had already entered into a formal educational program with the Fatah Youth from 2006 onward. They called this Palestinian body their ‘sister organization.’ Members of Fatah Youth were regular guests at Utoya camps.

“In 2010 at the Utoya camp, the AUF established ‘the State of Palestine.’ They fenced off an area and set up a separation wall. They gave some youngsters the task of being Border Guards. The General Secretary of the Labor party, Raymond Johansen visited Utoya. He wanted to visit ‘Palestine.’ The guards asked him to show his ‘identity card.’ Within ‘Palestine’ there was a banner which read, ‘Show contempt for the acts of Israel and Free Gaza.’

“At Utoya’s 2011 camp, Israel was also demonized. This was done by AUF leaders and visiting anti-Israel lecturers. There was a huge banner calling for the boycott of Israel. There were many countries they could have called to boycott with far more justification, but as usual, they chose Israel. When then-Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere visited Utoya, he spoke out against the boycott, yet was photographed in front of the boycott banner. Stoere said that Israel’s fence should be dismantled, knowing well that this would lead to increased terrorist attacks.

“There have been unconfirmed reports that youngsters in Utoya were taught about how Palestinian freedom fighters are trained to handle Israeli soldiers.

“There have been many rumors in Norway about what actually took place at Utoya. I have done detailed research to document the activities of the groups which were invited to the island. I want people to know the facts. It seems that the line between ‘showing contempt’ for Israelis and the use of violence against innocent civilians inside Israel, is blurred. Summer camps on Utoya have further fueled the already widespread anti-Israel sentiments in Norway.

“Members of the ruling left-center coalition government in Norway have accepted terrorists on Norwegian soil. These people are using violence as a political tool and kill innocent civilians in the framework of their activities. The terrorism and assassinations by these people have not harmed Norwegians. They have taken place mainly in the Middle East and in particular in Israel, targeting Israeli civilians. There is proof that the Prime Minister’s office is well aware and supportive of the welcoming attitude toward the terrorists.

“I can only hope that my book will lead to Norway closing its borders to terrorists of all colors. Then groups who use terror will also be banned from political workshops and ideological summer camps like those we have seen at Utoya. It is a sad testimony for Norway that one had to wait for the horrible Breivik murders in order to learn about the anti-Israeli activities, a mostly unknown part of Utoya’s history.”

Yes my friend, this whas not just a summer camp. This people are destroying Norway, and try to boycott Israel with huge campaing... Marxists, speeches of Iranian Jew-haters, Palestinian flags. All kind of things that happend on this Island.

[mord]

I can't condemn what Mr. Breivak did.He attacked a Bolshevik KGB/ Nazi Gestapo camp.The campers admitted they thought it was a play about how Israeli Soldiers attack qurananimal teens in Gaza     http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/07/24/norway-youth-camp-had-a-boycott-israel-rally/ 

It was a Leftist indoctrination camp. One of the activities at this camp was the demonization of Israel. In fact, when the shooting began, some thought it was a simulation of what they are taught, Israel does in Gaza.

    “Some of my friends tried to stop him by talking to him. Many people think on the island that it was a test … comparing it to how it is to live in Gaza. So many people went to him and tried to talk to him, but they were shot immediately.” - Adrian Pracon

Why would these kids think this? Clearly there was anti-Israel/Jewish indoctrination going on.

   
No Offense IZ and here we have this Irish imbecile and I'm being kind to him who believes it,or makes believe he believes it. 

 http://joequinn.net/2011/07/26/israel-attacks-norway/

[Zelhar]

I can't condemn what Mr. Breivak did.He attacked a Bolshevik KGB/ Nazi Gestapo camp.The campers admitted they thought it was a play about how Israeli Soldiers attack qurananimal teens in Gaza     http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/07/24/norway-youth-camp-had-a-boycott-israel-rally/     
No Offense IZ and here we have this Irish imbecile and I'm being kind to him who believes it,or makes believe he believes it. 

 http://joequinn.net/2011/07/26/israel-attacks-norway/

Yes but most people don't realize that, even some of the participants he killed. His attack would mostly serve to fence out right wing ideology as extreme and violent.

In an analogy to what he did, lets say Israel deliberately bombed a Hamas "youth camp" for mini terrorist I wouldn't feel sorry for the dead but I would still think it was a bad idea.

[Super Mentalita]

I know that the youth camp was filled with anti Israel slogans. I still don't agree with the killing, even though I can't say I feel sorry for them because they supported Arab terrorists and justified murdering Israelis.

How about justified Islamic grooming gangs in Europe...

[Israel Chai]

Since no one likes to consider my metaphysical speculations, I will make one of my own and then answer it. If he shot up a mosque, no matter the effect, I'd support him completely.

[Zelhar]

How about justified Islamic grooming gangs in Europe...

Then go kill muslims, you don't need my permission, that's your problem to deal with.

[muman613]

I think we should clearly say that we don't suggest anyone imitate what was done. I, for one, distance myself from some of the statements made here. I would like to hear a true Jewish view based on Halacha whether there is anything meritorious about this act. First, Brevik was not a Jew, second was his motivation truly for the benefit of Heaven (LaShem Shamayim), and in the case of Rodef it is necessary to first give a warning... So I still find problems in the entire situation...

[Israel Chai]

I think we should clearly say that we don't suggest anyone imitate what was done. I, for one, distance myself from some of the statements made here. I would like to hear a true Jewish view based on Halacha whether there is anything meritorious about this act. First, Brevik was not a Jew, second was his motivation truly for the benefit of Heaven (LaShem Shamayim), and in the case of Rodef it is necessary to first give a warning... So I still find problems in the entire situation...

I'm on he did a good thing to bad people who deserved it, but not like that, for some good and some bad reasons in a bad way that has had bad and good effects.

[Spiraling Leopard]

No 'kids' were on that camp. They were teenagers supporting murder against Israelis.

[JTFenthusiast2]

No 'kids' were on that camp. They were teenagers supporting murder against Israelis.

They absolutely were promoting, organinzing and campaigning for Jew hatred. But I think they were kids, who like nazi children, who certainly had the capacity to be decent at birth, were directed in the path of hatefulness and evil.  That's for sure.  That Joe Quinn seems like ****

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I think we should clearly say that we don't suggest anyone imitate what was done. I, for one, distance myself from some of the statements made here. I would like to hear a true Jewish view based on Halacha whether there is anything meritorious about this act. First, Brevik was not a Jew, second was his motivation truly for the benefit of Heaven (LaShem Shamayim), and in the case of Rodef it is necessary to first give a warning... So I still find problems in the entire situation...

 Huh? No one suggested it and no one called for it. I quoted you King Dawidh, their is a lot more available and you yourself know. Everything you know about how to treat Hamas and its people you apply it to other enemies as well.
 - He wasn't a Jew, sooo that makes him wrong for that fact? What nonsense.
 What do you mean by Leshem Shemayim? His motivation as stated by himself was to wake up his people against these people and Islamic take over of his country and continent. These were the people promoting these things and the future arctics of leftist propaganda.

 - Where did you think of what you said about a redef and giving warnings? No such thing. Their are  things and times where warning is given (for example someone breaking Shabbath) not in the case of a redef. It would be like seeing someone literally running after another person  to kill him (a rodef) and you have a shot, but you stop in order to tell him your warning? The other guy would be dead by then.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I don't agree exactly how this was done... But you have to strike fear in to the hearts of your enemies, or they will walk all over you!