Author Topic: David Horowitz: “Zimmerman a Guilty Liar”; he is also pro-gun laws  (Read 15718 times)

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Offline eb22

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muman,  I agree with you that Pamela Geller has done plenty of good with her efforts.    Sadly though,   she used horrific judgment with her comments regarding JTF and by not giving Orly Taitz the opportunity to speak at the alternative 2013 CPAC Convention.    Orly Taitz's message and information regarding the cover ups with BHO's birth certificate and related matters should be an extremely high priority by Conservatives and others who want to save the U.S,  Israel,  and Western Civilization from epic disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY26-jX4hM


In April I attended Pamela Geller's speaking appearance at Chabad of Great Neck and the rally in Mineola that afternoon not because of defending Geller but because of the threat of the combination of Islam's continuing influence and the Leftists that welcome/ promote Islam.   Including deformed " rabbis",  especially the hideous Jerome Davidson of Great Neck and Michael White of Roslyn Heights.    I had a verbal confirmation with the latter a couple of years ago.    He's an Obama supporter who supports our enemies in Judea and Samaria.

 
In 2010 I met Pamela Geller at a Candidates Fprum.   I bought her book,  and asked her to sign the book.    At that time I had a very favorable opinion of Geller.   Everything changed when she turned on JTF.    With her reaction to Orly Taitz reinforcement that this isn't the person/ leader I thought was the case in 2010.    While Geller indirectly changed the direction of my life because of who I met at the candidates forum in 2010,   she proved to be a disappointment.     I expected better.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

.....................................................................

http://jtf.org/

Offline muman613

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You got amnesia and we have to remind you exactly what she did every time the subject comes up?  Hasn't this already been hashed out here numerous times?  Even between me and you personally?

Look at the thread I posted when this first came up. Apparently this paragraph in an AmericanThinker article is what led to this argument. It appears to me that Pamela was not in favor of EDL forming an alliance with JTF. Is this not the case?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/smearing_geller_on_perry.html

Quote
Jawad then spends the rest of his piece on a tangent, attacking me over the English Defence League. What this has to do with Rick Perry, only Aymenn Jawad can tell you - but it reveals that the real agenda of his piece is not to defend Rick Perry at all. As for the EDL, my position has been consistent from the beginning: I supported them insofar as they fought for freedom and human rights, and rejected all racism, anti-Semitism, neofascism, and the like, I supported them. That goes for every group and individual on the planet. Roberta Moore (Jawad doesn't even have her name right) made one inquiry to the JTF back in February. When I heard about it, I immediately condemned it and Moore withdrew the idea. An alliance was never made. Jawad is trying to make hay over something that did not happen which shows how desperate he is to make a case, any case, even a dishonest one. Smoke and mirrors.

Is it because of this that members here are denigrating Geller? And could you please provide me a link to the discussion between you and I concerning this, as I have no recollection of discussing Geller with you.

Apparently Spiraling Leopard spoke with Roberta Moore and informed us  that Pamela doesn't think Chaim is a 'terrorist'.

Roberta told me that Pamela said to her that Chaim is not a terrorist.

And he later explained:

From what I understand she thought it to be a bad idea for JTF and EDL to work together.

So, does Spiraling Leopard have correct information or not? It seems to me that the problem was that Pamela thought EDL and JTF collaborating would be a bad idea.

Is there something else I am missing concerning a 'diss' on her part?

In closing I have to re-assert that I was not in favor of an alliance with EDL as there were questions about whether antisemitism existed in that organization. And I don't know if my questions were ever answered.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Eb22, here's what so those so-called libturd "rabbis" wrote about Geller:

http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/hate-speech-has-no-place-synagogue

We write as rabbis devoted both to our faith community and to human rights for all peoples.  We were disheartened to learn that the Great Neck Synagogue has invited Pamela Geller to speak on April 14. Geller has a long track record of hateful and virulently anti-Muslim views that seek to divide American Muslims and Jews, rather than unite them.

Both the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League have  designated Geller’s “Stop Islamization of America” organization as a hate group. As was recently reported in the Jewish Week, Etzion Neuer, director of community service and policy for the ADL’s New York region, said that Geller “under the guise of fighting radical Islam, absolutely demonizes an entire religion. In directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith, she fuels anti-Islamic bigotry. Geller doesn’t do us any favors,” he continued. “She muddies the waters because she hands the platform to the extremists in our midst. Instead of thoughtful, fact-based dialogue on the issues, we get incendiary rhetoric and xenophobia.”

We cherish our relationships and friendships within the local Muslim community. Both Temple Beth El of Great Neck and Temple Sinai of Roslyn share deep and abiding connections with the Islamic Center of Long Island. Our communities have broken bread together, studied together, engaged in social action projects together, and our children have learned from each other as well.  The local Muslim community adds immeasurably to Long Island’s vitality, and we are blessed by their commitment to the betterment of our society. Their presence among us affirms the essence of America’s greatness, a nation founded on the principles of democratic pluralism.

We state unequivocally that Geller’s inflammatory rhetoric does not represent us or the great majority of Jews in Great Neck and on Long Island. Hate speech has no place in synagogues. Synagogues should be places for worship, positive dialogue and reasoned political debate. The right of free speech is vitally important, but Geller crosses the line from political to hate speech. In sharp contrast, Judaism teaches us to respect the traditions and values of other faiths.

Last fall the group T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights (formerly Rabbis For Human Rights-North America) echoed that sentiment with its effective New York City subway ad campaign that countered Geller’s offensive anti-Muslim subway posters.  T’ruah’s message challenged: “In the choice between love and hate, choose love. Help stop bigotry against our Muslim neighbors.”

We share T’ruah’s vision, reflecting our faith’s mandate to work for understanding, unity and peace among all humanity. Geller’s messages seek to divide peoples, and fail to acknowledge that even with significant political differences, Jews and Muslims are working to build the world of justice and compassion that both faiths demand. Rather than trying to denigrate a diverse community and rich tradition, we must find ways of respecting one another and working together on shared concerns.

At this season of the year following the Passover festival, Jews study a tractate of the Talmud called Ethics of the Fathers.  We are mindful of Hillel’s enduring words in the opening chapter: “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” The time is now to stand – for ourselves, for our fellow citizens, for our common humanity and kinship.

We hope Great Neck Synagogue leaders will take a hard look at their decision and ask themselves why they are giving a platform to someone who has devoted her life to defaming fellow Americans of a different Abrahamic religion.

Rabbi Michael White is the Senior Rabbi at Temple Sinai of Roslyn. Rabbi Jerome Davidson is Rabbi Emeritus of Temple Beth-El of Great Neck and teaches at the Hebrew Union College, New York City.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now imagine if they were to ever hear Chaim speak.  They would probably have a heart attack.

Offline muman613

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muman,  I agree with you that Pamela Geller has done plenty of good with her efforts.    Sadly though,   she used horrific judgment with her comments regarding JTF and by not giving Orly Taitz the opportunity to speak at the alternative 2013 CPAC Convention.    Orly Taitz's message and information regarding the cover ups with BHO's birth certificate and related matters should be an extremely high priority by Conservatives and others who want to save the U.S,  Israel,  and Western Civilization from epic disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY26-jX4hM


In April I attended Pamela Geller's speaking appearance at Chabad of Great Neck and the rally in Mineola that afternoon not because of defending Geller but because of the threat of the combination of Islam's continuing influence and the Leftists that welcome/ promote Islam.   Including deformed " rabbis",  especially the hideous Jerome Davidson of Great Neck and Michael White of Roslyn Heights.    I had a verbal confirmation with the latter a couple of years ago.    He's an Obama supporter who supports our enemies in Judea and Samaria.

 
In 2010 I met Pamela Geller at a Candidates Fprum.   I bought her book,  and asked her to sign the book.    At that time I had a very favorable opinion of Geller.   Everything changed when she turned on JTF.    With her reaction to Orly Taitz reinforcement that this isn't the person/ leader I thought was the case in 2010.    While Geller indirectly changed the direction of my life because of who I met at the candidates forum in 2010,   she proved to be a disappointment.     I expected better.

Thank you eb22, and I can understand why some here may not support her.

If I find that she has a deep rooted hatred of JTF and what we are trying to do, then I may change my opinion.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline eb22

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Lisa,   thanks for sharing the article.    This article helps illustrate why it was essential for me to be at the two events in Nassau County that day.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

.....................................................................

http://jtf.org/

Offline eb22

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Thank you eb22, and I can understand why some here may not support her.

If I find that she has a deep rooted hatred of JTF and what we are trying to do, then I may change my opinion.

muman,   for what it's worth I can understand why people would still support Pamela Geller.    I'm not going to condemn her because she takes high risks in the effort to point out many dangers of Islam.   Yet,  from my point of view there are people that are far worth more supporting than Geller.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

.....................................................................

http://jtf.org/

Offline muman613

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Lisa,

That article makes me want to hurl on those 'rabbis'...

I was so please to hear that the Chabad of Great Neck invited her to speak...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dan193

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Debbie's crazy for criticizing David Horowitz.
Horowitz is one of Israel's biggest supporters.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Horowitz is one of Israel's biggest supporters.

So that means he can never be wrong?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Look at the thread I posted when this first came up. Apparently this paragraph in an AmericanThinker article is what led to this argument. It appears to me that Pamela was not in favor of EDL forming an alliance with JTF. Is this not the case?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/smearing_geller_on_perry.html

Is it because of this that members here are denigrating Geller? And could you please provide me a link to the discussion between you and I concerning this, as I have no recollection of discussing Geller with you.

Apparently Spiraling Leopard spoke with Roberta Moore and informed us  that Pamela doesn't think Chaim is a 'terrorist'.

And he later explained:

So, does Spiraling Leopard have correct information or not? It seems to me that the problem was that Pamela thought EDL and JTF collaborating would be a bad idea.

Is there something else I am missing concerning a 'diss' on her part?

In closing I have to re-assert that I was not in favor of an alliance with EDL as there were questions about whether antisemitism existed in that organization. And I don't know if my questions were ever answered.

Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us!   You honestly don't get that?

Offline Israel Chai

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Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us!   You honestly don't get that?

How much did she really have to help on that front?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us!   You honestly don't get that?

If you read my explanation you will see that I cut Geller some slack on that. I can understand if she doesn't want to be associated with JTF. There is a thing called 'public relations' which needs to be played by people like Geller who want a platform in the 'mainstream media'. Once someone gets a reputation as a hater, it is difficult for the MSM to allow them to have a voice on their platform.

We all know that JTF has a reputation and for some, even those I talk to, there is still a stigma with the entire Kahanist viewpoint. So I am willing to use what some may call 'Jewish Indirection' and avoid talking about Kahane and our philisophy directly, but indirectly in a manner which may ultimately bring them to understand the JTF view. This is , according to my opinion, where the Gellers and others come in. I am speaking from a little experience exposing more center-right people to move further to the right, almost into our camp.

So maybe I am not as uncompromising as Chaim is on issues. But I believe it is possible to work with Jews to bring them to understanding our enemies exist, and what they are trying to do to Israel and America. This is why I appreciate Gellers work.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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If you read my explanation you will see that I cut Geller some slack on that. I can understand if she doesn't want to be associated with JTF. There is a thing called 'public relations' which needs to be played by people like Geller who want a platform in the 'mainstream media'. Once someone gets a reputation as a hater, it is difficult for the MSM to allow them to have a voice on their platform.

We all know that JTF has a reputation and for some, even those I talk to, there is still a stigma with the entire Kahanist viewpoint. So I am willing to use what some may call 'Jewish Indirection' and avoid talking about Kahane and our philisophy directly, but indirectly in a manner which may ultimately bring them to understand the JTF view. This is , according to my opinion, where the Gellers and others come in. I am speaking from a little experience exposing more center-right people to move further to the right, almost into our camp.

So maybe I am not as uncompromising as Chaim is on issues. But I believe it is possible to work with Jews to bring them to understanding our enemies exist, and what they are trying to do to Israel and America. This is why I appreciate Gellers work.

I don't think the concept of public relations eludes them. Selling out JTF is still what she did, and the loss of potential value if she had supported JTF has to be measured against the value in terms of counter-jihad she provides now.

She does provide a benefit, and essentially her message tries to be clean and fit in with what is politically correct so it can become establishment, but she lied about this forum and said that this forum was a violent forum, which is not true. I got banned for making a gun joke [with a hint of indirect threat].
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Offline Debbie Shafer

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Many people who know Zimmerman says he is not racist, he has mentored and taught all different races.  This is about Self-Defense!

Offline Israel Chai

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Many people who know Zimmerman says he is not racist, he has mentored and taught all different races.  This is about Self-Defense!

Lol I thought you were posting on the wrong topic for a sec.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Does anyone know if Pamela Geller has made any statements in regards to Rabbi Kahane zt'l?
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
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Offline Lisa

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Does anyone know if Pamela Geller has made any statements in regards to Rabbi Kahane zt'l?

No.  But Debbie Schlussel has written about meeting him, and how what he warned about always came true.