Shalom

[Dan Ben Noah]

Shalom

[Super Mentalita]

I'am not realy agree. This children are victoms of Islam. 99% of this kids are born under Islam and learn to hate from there parents. This child brides have no choice at all.

[Zelhar]

I'am not realy agree. This children are victoms of Islam. 99% of this kids are born under Islam and learn to hate from there parents. This child brides have no choice at all.

Yes you can claim they are victims because they didn't choose to be born into Islam. But at the same time the hatred in their heart is very real. They are terrorist larvae. They will grow up to spawn more terrorist and perhaps blow up themselves.

[muman613]

Hashem has very difficult to understand calculations concerning this. On the one hand we say we do not hold the children of sinners guilty of their parents sin. And yet there is a concept which is expressed in the very Aseret HaDribroth (10 commandments) where it says.

2) "You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, nor any manner of likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them. For I the Lord your G-d am a jealous G-d, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children of the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

It is clear that children of sinners who persist in the ways of their evil parents will be cursed by Hashem. So it is the parents who are guilty of perpetuating Hashems hatred of their offspring. No matter what it is clear that any and all of these children haters deserve the death penalty.

[Yotin]

I like most of your posts Dan, but I can't agree with this one.  They are double victims, little girls who have been clearly brainwashed and I cannot bring myself to think that this justifies further abuse at the hands of their evil muslim pedophile "husbands".

You could take little jewish girls or any other non muslim girls and raise them to believe the exact same thing. Do you have any kids? You should know how impressionable they are.  The sin of this evil poem rests on the head of the adults, who are responsible for their upbringing, who make these girls recite these poems with such gusto.  We can't tell what is really in their hearts, they are but little children.

[muman613]

I like most of your posts Dan, but I can't agree with this one.  They are double victims, little girls who have been clearly brainwashed and I cannot bring myself to think that this justifies further abuse at the hands of their evil muslim pedophile "husbands".

You could take little jewish girls or any other non muslim girls and raise them to believe the exact same thing. Do you have any kids? You should know how impressionable they are.  The sin of this evil poem rests on the head of the adults, who are responsible for their upbringing, who make these girls recite these poems with such gusto.  We can't tell what is really in their hearts, they are but little children.

They will grow up to be full-blown enemies of the Jewish people. As such they are already doomed... It is not their fault, but as the Torah clearly says that Hashem will hate those who hate him for three generations. This is because they will repeat the sins of their fathers.

It has nothing to do with 'child brides' but rather the way the muslims raise their children to hate Jews... Until this stops their children will be cursed.

[angryChineseKahanist]

if these girls were sent to a normal school where they learn to play with dolls and sports, math and language instead of evil islam, they would not likely grow up evil.

[Yotin]

They will grow up to be full-blown enemies of the Jewish people. As such they are already doomed... It is not their fault, but as the Torah clearly says that Hashem will hate those who hate him for three generations. This is because they will repeat the sins of their fathers.

It has nothing to do with 'child brides' but rather the way the muslims raise their children to hate Jews... Until this stops their children will be cursed.

I agree with what you just said in its entirety muman, yet I think it may still remain the case that we can and maybe even should still feel pity for anyone caught in such circumstances and not look upon this with glee.  In other words, may we not still "shed tears" for these cursed children even though they will grow up to be enemies?  They are still children as of yet.

[muman613]

I agree with what you just said in its entirety muman, yet I think it may still remain the case that we can and maybe even should still feel pity for anyone caught in such circumstances and not look upon this with glee.  In other words, may we not still "shed tears" for these cursed children even though they will grow up to be enemies?  They are still children as of yet.

Of course I do not enjoy or or am happy in the least about this. And in most cases I am willing to have compassion on those who are born into such tragedy. I have a problem being merciful when it comes to two classes of people, Nazis and Islam. But as is the case with all of my hatred I try to insure that it is 'LaShem Shemayim' or 'for the sake of heaven' and not because I enjoy seeing people being killed or shedding blood.

[Yotin]

Of course I do not enjoy or or am happy in the least about this. And in most cases I am willing to have compassion on those who are born into such tragedy. I have a problem being merciful when it comes to two classes of people, Nazis and Islam. But as is the case with all of my hatred I try to insure that it is 'LaShem Shemayim' or 'for the sake of heaven' and not because I enjoy seeing people being killed or shedding blood.

Well, we agree entirely then muman.  And I wasn't implying that you enjoyed any of this, by the way.  I was telling Dan however that I disagreed with his statement about these girls deserving their abuse.

[Dr. Dan]

I probably wouldn't state this the way Dan Ben Noah stated this. Rather i believe it is better to be outraged by the behavior of pedophilia to these little girls. At the same time, my recommendation isn't for Jews to spend their time to correct the wrong of Muslims. Rather we should look at these Muslim pigs and learn to never imitate them and to punish any Jew or gentile in arms reach that commit or encourage pedophilia in the most brutal manner.

It's not a matter of shedding tears not for the little Muslim girls. It's the anger we should have for those pigs that behave like Mohammad piss be upon him

[A Blue Thread]

Many years ago I was a off-and-on poster on the StørmFrønt forums, and it's rather disconcerting to see almost the exact same things being said here about Muslim children that were said there about Jewish children. I understand very well the intent- and extent- of the emotions involved, but it's a bit of a shock all the same. Some of the things said here (and not just in this specific thread), with very few changes in the wording, might just as easily have been copied verbatim from an anti-Jewish story in a mid-30's copy of Julius Streicher's "Der Sturmer".

That big old wheel keeps on turning, and if we keep on pushing it around- instead of stopping it- we'll soon find ourselves taking another turn in the hot seat.

That being said, I agree with the general consensus: I'm all for the harshest of punishments being meted out to those who abuse children anywhere. If a Muslim or Christian does wrong, he gets called out for it- and if a Jew does it he doesn't get a free pass either. Evil has a face, but unfortunately it looks just like everyone else- he's not an Arab, or a Zulu, or an Eskimo. We have to learn to recognize Evil and work to undo the bad deeds it leaves in its' wake, and prevent the ones we can along the way.

[muman613]

Many years ago I was a off-and-on poster on the StørmFrønt forums, and it's rather disconcerting to see almost the exact same things being said here about Muslim children that were said there about Jewish children. I understand very well the intent- and extent- of the emotions involved, but it's a bit of a shock all the same. Some of the things said here (and not just in this specific thread), with very few changes in the wording, might just as easily have been copied verbatim from an anti-Jewish story in a mid-30's copy of Julius Streicher's "Der Sturmer".

That big old wheel keeps on turning, and if we keep on pushing it around- instead of stopping it- we'll soon find ourselves taking another turn in the hot seat.

That being said, I agree with the general consensus: I'm all for the harshest of punishments being meted out to those who abuse children anywhere. If a Muslim or Christian does wrong, he gets called out for it- and if a Jew does it he doesn't get a free pass either. Evil has a face, but unfortunately it looks just like everyone else- he's not an Arab, or a Zulu, or an Eskimo. We have to learn to recognize Evil and work to undo the bad deeds it leaves in its' wake, and prevent the ones we can along the way.

ABlueThread,

The Jews do not have any command to kill those who do not believe in Judaism. I cannot see how you can compare our desire to preserve our nation to the perverted claims of Nazis. That we debate whether we should be concerned with trying to help these poor children born into a life of misery or not is not calling for them to be destroyed, rather it is pointing out that they are doomed by their parents iniquity.

I am somewhat surprised that you compare our debate to StørmFrønt blather... We are debating and have a lot of latitude in the opinions which are acceptable. Nobody wants all arabs to be rounded up and exterminated. We would certainly like to see them turn around and live as respectable human beings, if possible.

As long as these 'children' grow up to be terrorists we must be concerned for the wellbeing of the Jewish people. There is very little you can do to change the situation.

[muman613]

Dan,

Technically a 'rodef' is a pursuer, not just of Jewish life, but someone who pursues with the intent to damage. Most of our laws concerning the Rodef come from the story of Pinchas who was a 'rodef' and killed Cosbi and Zimri. In this case a 'Rodef' is a good thing. And so too Aaron HaKohen is called a 'Rodef Shalom' or 'Pursuer of Peace'. So the term doesn't only refer to enemies of the Jewish people.

[muman613]

From the Daf Yomi (daily study) of the Talmud Sanhedrin Page 82

http://dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-082.htm

2) A SINNER'S ALLOWANCE TO KILL IN SELF-DEFENSE
QUESTION: Rebbi Yochanan states that if Pinchas would have killed Zimri after Zimri was no longer with the Nochris (and not during the act), then he would have been Chayav Misah and Beis Din would have executed him for Retzichah, murder. This is because the law of "Kana'in Pog'in Bo" applies only during the act of sin. Furthermore, if Zimri would have killed Pinchas in self-defense when Pinchas was coming to kill him, he would not have been guilty of murder, since Pinchas was considered a "Rodef" who was pursuing Zimri in order to kill him.

How can the Torah sanction the killing of a sinner ("Kana'in Pog'in Bo") while at the same time it permits the sinner to kill the righteous person (as a "Rodef")? Does this mean that every sinner who puts himself in danger because of his sins has the right to defend himself?

ANSWERS:
(a) The RAN explains that although the zealous person is doing the will of Hash-m, Beis Din cannot give permission to a person to act this way. The Gemara earlier quotes Rav Chisda who states that if a person asks Beis Din what to do in such a situation, Beis Din may not tell him to go and kill the offender. In contrast, when a person is being pursued by someone else who wants to kill him and he asks Beis Din what he should do, Beis Din certainly tells him to hunt down the killer and stop him before he kills. In that case, the Rodef has no right to defend himself by killing the person trying to stop him; rather, the Rodef must desist from his pursuit of his intended victim. In the case of a man who is sinning with a Nochris, since Beis Din does not kill him, it is considered as though he is not liable to death at the hands of anyone. Consequently, although the Torah permits a zealous person to kill him, he is allowed to defend himself and kill the zealous person who pursues him.

(b) The YAD RAMAH qualifies the status of "Rodef" as it applies to the zealous person. Although the Gemara calls this zealous person a Rodef, he is not classified as an ordinary Rodef whom everyone is allowed to kill. He is different because he has permission from the Torah to kill the sinner. Therefore, only the sinner himself is allowed to kill him in self-defense. He explains that this is based on logic. Everyone is allowed to kill the sinner if they wish to be zealous. The only person who cannot kill the sinner is the sinner himself. Therefore, only he is allowed to defend himself. This is also the opinion of the ROSH and the TUR (CM 425). (Y. Montrose)

3) THE RIGHT OF A "RODEF" TO KILL THE PERSON TRYING TO KILL HIM
OPINIONS: Rebbi Yochanan states that if Pinchas would have killed Zimri after Zimri was no longer with the Nochris (and not during the act), then he would have been Chayav Misah and Beis Din would have executed him for Retzichah, murder. This is because the law of "Kana'in Pog'in Bo" applies only during the act of sin. Furthermore, if Zimri would have killed Pinchas in self-defense when Pinchas was coming to kill him, he would not have been guilty of murder, since Pinchas was considered a "Rodef" who was pursuing Zimri in order to kill him.

The MISHNEH L'MELECH (Hilchos Rotze'ach 1:15) answers a Halachic question based on this Gemara. The Torah teaches that there is a law of "Go'el ha'Dam" -- a person whose relative was killed by accident has the right to kill his relative's killer as long as the killer has not yet reached an Ir Miklat. If, when the Go'el ha'Dam attempts to kill the unintentional killer, the killer defends himself and kills the Go'el ha'Dam, is he guilty of murder? The Mishneh l'Melech answers that he is not guilty, and he proves this from the Gemara here which says that Zimri would not have been guilty had he killed Pinchas.

(a) The Mishneh l'Melech asks another question in this regard. When a Rodef is pursuing his victim in order to kill him, and other people attempt to kill the Rodef in order to stop him, may the Rodef kill those other people in self-defense? The Mishneh l'Melech answers that he may not kill the others, since, in this case, it is a Mitzvah for everyone to kill the Rodef.

The CHIDUSHEI HA'RIM (CM Teshuvah 7) does not understand the question. Killing even a Rodef is permitted only when one cannot stop the Rodef in any other way, such as by injuring him. If the Rodef can stop the person who is trying to kill him in a manner other than by killing him, then how is it possible that he would not be guilty of murder if he kills his pursuer instead? In the case of a person chasing a Rodef, the Rodef simply has to stop trying to kill his intended victim in order to stop the other person from pursuing him!

The KLI CHEMDAH answers that the same question may be asked on the Gemara here. The Gemara states that Zimri would not have been guilty of murder for killing Pinchas. Why would he not have been guilty of murder? Zimri had another way to stop Pinchas from pursuing him -- he simply could have stopped doing his sin! The Kli Chemdah asserts that it must be that someone doing a sin is considered unable to stop what he is doing (it is like a case of "Ones"). Consequently, the logic of the Chidushei ha'Rim cannot prove that a Rodef who kills his pursuer is guilty.

[Yotin]

ABlueThread,

The Jews do not have any command to kill those who do not believe in Judaism. I cannot see how you can compare our desire to preserve our nation to the perverted claims of Nazis. That we debate whether we should be concerned with trying to help these poor children born into a life of misery or not is not calling for them to be destroyed, rather it is pointing out that they are doomed by their parents iniquity.

I am somewhat surprised that you compare our debate to StørmFrønt blather... We are debating and have a lot of latitude in the opinions which are acceptable. Nobody wants all arabs to be rounded up and exterminated. We would certainly like to see them turn around and live as respectable human beings, if possible.

As long as these 'children' grow up to be terrorists we must be concerned for the wellbeing of the Jewish people. There is very little you can do to change the situation.

Well said muman

[A Blue Thread]

ABlueThread,

The Jews do not have any command to kill those who do not believe in Judaism. I cannot see how you can compare our desire to preserve our nation to the perverted claims of Nazis. That we debate whether we should be concerned with trying to help these poor children born into a life of misery or not is not calling for them to be destroyed, rather it is pointing out that they are doomed by their parents iniquity.

I am somewhat surprised that you compare our debate to StørmFrønt blather... We are debating and have a lot of latitude in the opinions which are acceptable. Nobody wants all arabs to be rounded up and exterminated. We would certainly like to see them turn around and live as respectable human beings, if possible.

As long as these 'children' grow up to be terrorists we must be concerned for the wellbeing of the Jewish people. There is very little you can do to change the situation.

No, my meaning was that one person's Absolute Truth is another person's Absolute Propaganda, and unfortunately it usually all sounds and reads exactly alike, regardless of the source. I don't for one second hint that this forum and SF are two sides of the same coin, only that- given the wide range of personalities involved- there are bound to be those on the ragged edges of the thought processes to be found in both places.

But yes, I agree that the children in question have a difficult road ahead of them when faced with such an onslaught of anti-Jewish sentiment from Day One. We can only do our best to provide a good example for them and hope they see the error of their parent's ways before it's too late for them- or us.

As for my posts, obviously I'm new here and just getting a feel for the forum's ebb and flow- I don't intent to sound like I'm pontificating on anything, only sharing some thoughts.

[A Blue Thread]

A Blue Thread, when you were a Stormfronter, did you see any videos of Jewish children preaching death against Germans?

Actually, no I didn't- but then again, this was in the rather early days of forums and such and most of what was posted were links for downloading entire movies ripped from DVD's! Of course over on SF the perennial favorite was "The Eternal Jew", which most looked to as a documentary instead of a propaganda film. That and any number of Nazi-era films, especially anything anti-Jewish, could be found any day of the week.

I haven't been to that dark place in a LONG time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they're ranting and raving about Muslims now just as hard as they were about Jews previously. And with the explosion of internet video, there's no telling what they have now.

[Lisa]

A Blue Thread, when did you stop posting on SF?  What made you stop? 

As for these child brides, it's certainly disgusting.  But that's their religion for you. 

But for us Jews, this is what we're up against.  For me, the priority is for Jews in Israel and elsewhere to protect themselves from these barbarians who teach their children to hate and to kill, and who use their girls as terrorist incubators. 

I remember once listening to an audio of Rabbi Kahane who said he wished the Arabs well "in their own countries."  And I agree.  But that doesn't go for the ones that kill, rape, and maim Jews and other good people.  It certainly doesn't apply to those who support these hoodlums either. 

[Lisa]

Another thing, A Blue Thread.  From my past run-ins with some SF'ers I can tell you flat out that they support the Muslims even though they may not want them in the West.  The only "non-whites" they care about are the fecalstinians. 

Also, I had one of them tell me flat out that he supports Obama whom he believed would stick it to us Joos. 

I guess what I'm getting at is that those people would kill their own mothers if it would somehow make the world Jew free. 

[A Blue Thread]

A Blue Thread, when did you stop posting on SF?  What made you stop? 

That was years ago- it had to have been a good ten or fifteen years ago now- and I stopped because I woke up and realized the direction I was heading in my life, and it wasn't good at all. I wasn't particularly against any specific race or religion, but I certainly was VERY pro-White People. Age and education eventually opened my eyes, though, and I saw I was boxing myself into a very tiny, intolerant world and that's just not the kind of person I wanted to be. I stopped posting on forums like that and cut my ties to the White Nationalist outfits I had been involved with and for all practical purposes disappeared from that life and started rebuilding myself from the inside out. Years later, through many unexpected twists and turns of secular and spiritual life, here I am- Jewish and proud of it.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

 

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

Many years ago I was a off-and-on poster on the StørmFrønt forums, and it's rather disconcerting to see almost the exact same things being said here about Muslim children that were said there about Jewish children. I understand very well the intent- and extent- of the emotions involved, but it's a bit of a shock all the same. Some of the things said here (and not just in this specific thread), with very few changes in the wording, might just as easily have been copied verbatim from an anti-Jewish story in a mid-30's copy of Julius Streicher's "Der Sturmer".

That big old wheel keeps on turning, and if we keep on pushing it around- instead of stopping it- we'll soon find ourselves taking another turn in the hot seat.

That being said, I agree with the general consensus: I'm all for the harshest of punishments being meted out to those who abuse children anywhere. If a Muslim or Christian does wrong, he gets called out for it- and if a Jew does it he doesn't get a free pass either. Evil has a face, but unfortunately it looks just like everyone else- he's not an Arab, or a Zulu, or an Eskimo. We have to learn to recognize Evil and work to undo the bad deeds it leaves in its' wake, and prevent the ones we can along the way.

בס''ד

Once again, you promote evil and "moral relativism" on every thread.

You compare us to your Nazi web site StørmFrønt because we expose the evils of massive Islamic pedophilia and rape. You also claim that there is no moral difference between Muslims and Jews, or between Muslims and non-Muslims in general. Wrong. Jews do not chop the clitorises off of tens of millions of little girls the way Muslims do. Jews do not seek to conquer the world and exterminate or forcibly convert every one on this planet to their religion the way Muslims do. Jews do not rape millions of women and then blame the rape victims the way Muslims do. Jews do not marry and rape little girls the way Mohammed the founder of Islam did and the way Muslims continue to do to this very day.

It is your defense of Muslim Nazis that sounds like Der Sturmer. But then again, considering that you come from the Nazi StørmFrønt site, that should not be surprising.

[Ulli]

Yes you can claim they are victims because they didn't choose to be born into Islam. But at the same time the hatred in their heart is very real. They are terrorist larvae. They will grow up to spawn more terrorist and perhaps blow up themselves.

Right.

[TruthSpreader]

"A Blue Thread" sounds suspicious. Is he really Jewish? Considering he's from the Neo-Nazi forum, StørmFrønt.