Author Topic: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.  (Read 1007 times)

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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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The Jews were forgiven for The Golden Calf on Yom Kippur, not on Tu B'Av.


Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 01:49:14 PM »
I think I heard Chaim say that on TuB'Av the Jews in the desert stopped dying.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 02:03:05 PM »
בס''ד

The Jews were also forgiven on Tu BeAv for the sin of the Golden Calf.

I know that you understand Hebrew, so here is a Hebrew video from HaRav Menachem Veis confirming what I said on the program.


Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 02:03:32 PM »
He did say that but he also said the Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Tu B'Av. The Sin of the Golden Calf was on 17 Tammuz, 3 months after the Exodus. They were forgiven on the first Yom Kippur 6 months after the Exodus. The Sin of the Spies was on Tisha B'Av in the second year of the Exodus, a year and 3 weeks after the Sin of the Golden Calf.

We read about being forgiven for the Sin of the Golden Calf on the fast day Torah readings from Parashat Ki Tisa in the Book of Exodus. The Sin of the Spies was in the Book of Numbers.


Offline muman613

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 03:07:50 PM »
I had a point to add to Chaims discussion of Eikev. While I see that it is possible to read the sentence :

17. and you will say to yourself, "My strength and the might of my hand that has accumulated this wealth for me."

As Chaim suggests, that it is through our actions that we acquire wealth and status, it is equally important to read the very next sentence to understand the context of what this section of the parsha is saying:

18. But you must remember the Lord your God, for it is He that gives you strength to make wealth, in order to establish His covenant which He swore to your forefathers, as it is this day.

The full lesson is that while we must do our action in this world we should not become haughty or ignore Hashems providence even when we are doing well.. If we should forget him the next line clearly warns of danger:

19. And it will be, if you forget the Lord your God and follow other gods, and worship them, and prostrate yourself before them, I bear witness against you this day, that you will surely perish.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 03:41:48 PM »
The Jews were forgiven for The Golden Calf on Yom Kippur, not on Tu B'Av.
Chaim knows what he is talking about dude. Who are you to correct him?

Offline muman613

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 03:48:05 PM »
Chaim knows what he is talking about dude. Who are you to correct him?

I love Chaim but nobody is absolutely perfect, especially when it comes to study of Torah, Binyamin is correct in saying that Yom Kippur is the day Hashem forgave the Jewish people for the sin of the golden calf... It is also correct to say that Tu b"av the people were forgiven for the sin of the spies...



Quote
http://www.aish.com/jl/hol/o/48955491.html

The Mishnah tells us that: "No days were as festive for Israel as the 15th of Av and Yom Kippur." (Tractate Ta'anit)

What is Tu B'Av, the 15th of the Hebrew month of Av? In which way is it equivalent to Yom Kippur?

Our Sages explain: Yom Kippur symbolizes God's forgiving Israel for the sin of the Golden Calf in the desert, for it was on that day that He finally accepted Moses' plea for forgiveness of the nation, and on that same day Moses came down from the mountain with the new set of tablets.

Just as Yom Kippur symbolizes the atonement for the sin of the Golden Calf, Tu B'Av signifies the atonement for the sin of the Spies, where ten came bearing such negative reports which reduced the entire nation to panic. As a result of that sin, it was decreed by God that the nation would remain in the desert for 40 years, and that no person 20 or older would be allowed to enter Israel. On each Tisha B'Av of those 40 years, those who had reached the age of 60 that year died – 15,000 each Tisha B'Av.

This plague finally ended on Tu B'Av.

At least this is the idea taught by most... Some Rabbis also explain it as Chaim has explained it...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 03:51:26 PM »
Chaim knows what he is talking about dude. Who are you to correct him?

 Relax someone can and should express an opinion. Is this a cult?
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 03:52:47 PM »
Quote
http://www.kiruv.com/articles/1269/the-mystical-roots-of-tu-bav/

On the 15th of Av, a holiday of unclear significance is commemorated — Tu B’Av. The Mishnah’s description of the import of the day contains a surprising analogy. Tu B’Av is compared with Yom Kippur, arguably the holiest day of the year:

There never were in Israel greater days of joy than Tu B’Av and Yom Kippur. On these days the daughters of Jerusalem used to walk out in white garments which they borrowed in order not to put to shame any one who had none …

The daughters of Jerusalem came out and danced in the vineyards exclaiming at the same time, “Young man, lift up your eyes and see what you choose for yourself. Do not set your eyes on beauty but set your eyes on [good] family.” As it says, “Grace is deceitful, and beauty is vain; but a woman that fears the lord, she shall be praised.” (Ta’anit 26b)


This is the concluding Mishnah of the tractate of Ta’anit, which deals with fast days. The previous Mishnah had taught the laws of Tisha B’Av. Now the Mishnah continues to the next day of importance in the Jewish calendar, Tu B’Av. Ostensibly the intent of the Mishnah is to end on a positive note, especially after all the tragedies previously enumerated. Indeed, the Mishnah concludes with the building of the Temple, clearly a cause for monumental joy.

A scene of dancing and celebration is described, raising two questions: This description seems dissonant with our understanding of Yom Kippur. And secondly, what is the significance of Tu B’Av, whereby it would deserve the same celebration as Yom Kippur?

The Talmud explains the joy of Yom Kippur while posing the question about Tu B’Av:

I can understand the Day of Atonement, because it is a day of forgiveness and pardon and on it the second Tablets of the Law were given. But what happened on the 15th of Av? (Ta’anit 30b)

A TIME OF CELEBRATION

The ecstatic joy, which is absent from the contemporary experience of Yom Kippur, is taken for granted in the Talmud. The experience of Yom Kippur was palatably different in Temple times. We are told that the red string in the Temple turned white, serving as a veritable spiritual barometer of God’s forgiveness of man. When the people were shown this tangible sign of forgiveness, celebration erupted.

Rabbi Yishmael said: But they had another sign too: a thread of crimson wool was tied to the door of the Temple, and when the goat reached the wilderness, the thread turned white. As it is written: “Though your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow.” (Yoma 68b)

This type of joy was spontaneous, even though it was a yearly occurrence on Yom Kippur. Singing, dancing and celebration broke out all over. The women of Jerusalem would dance in the vineyards. Marriage was on their minds.

The Talmud had described Yom Kippur as a day of “forgiveness and pardon and on it the second Tablets of the Law were given.” Yom Kippur is viewed as a day that encapsulates the commitment between the Jewish people and God. It is the day that the Jews finally took their vows and were forgiven for the indiscretion involving the Golden Calf.

The 17th of Tammuz, the day Moses came down with the first set of tablets in hand, should have been the day when the Jews solidified their commitment with God. Instead they worshipped the Golden Calf and it became a day of infamy. The fate of the entire community was held in abeyance in the following weeks until Moses was invited once again to ascend the mount on the first day of Elul.

One’s wedding is a day of personal forgiveness, and has a cathartic, Yom Kippur-like element.

Forty days later, on the 10th of Tishrei, the day celebrated henceforth as Yom Kippur, Moses descended with the second tablets as well as God’s message that He had forgiven the Jewish nation.

This idea dovetails with the teaching that one’s wedding day is a day of personal forgiveness, and has a cathartic, “Yom Kippur-like” element. This may also explain the practice of reading the section of the Torah which enumerates forbidden relations on Yom Kippur afternoon. The backdrop of celebration in the streets explains this choice of Torah selection, both as a warning against unmitigated, excessive frivolity, and as a demarcation of forbidden relations.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 06:04:20 PM »
When I was a kid, I thought the the Golden Calf was the reason the Jews were in the Desert for 40 years. That's what happens when you watch the movie "The Ten Commandments" without learning the story in the Torah first. At least from my own experience, it seems people that just learned in Hebrew School will learn the stories up to Parashat Yitro but then there are no more stories for a few parashot and the rest of the Torah is just mitzvot. So the rest of the Torah is not as known to all as the parts up to the giving of the Torah. I don't even know when I first learned about the Sin of the Spies.


Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »
I think the main answer to Dr. Dan's question should be that there is absolutely no comparison to "St. Valentine's Day". The part about finding a shiduch is only part of Tu B'Av. Chaim also didn't explain that part. He just said it's happy that we stopped dying in the Desert. The getting married part is because the women would dance in the fields in borrowed white clothing and also because of the ban of marrying Jews from another tribe and the ban on marrying Jews from the Tribe of Binyamin. Other than 400 men, the whole Tribe of Binyamin was annihilated (See the end of Judges.). All the women were killed. So the men had to marry other tribes to be able to continue. That is also something we celebrate on Tu B'Av.

I think Muman posted the whole list of things we celebrate. Just like there is a list of tragedies that happened on 17 Tammuz and 9 Av, there is a list of happy things that happened on 15 Mencahem Av.


Online angryChineseKahanist

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Re: The Jews were forgiven for the Golden Calf on Yom Kippur.
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 09:34:48 AM »
I saw something about an archeological dig where they found something like that golden calf.
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