Revava

[admin]

In light of the below post by Mike Guzofsky regarding Revava suggesting Revava supports Marzel's people and the Kach approach and not the Kahane Chai approach, why does Revava oppose JTF if JTF also is part of the Kach approach?

After the Rav's death actually prior to Rav Meir Kahane's murder in Nov 1990 there was a dispute already in Kach about the concept of Revolution or Referendum. The board of Kach opposed rabbi Kahane's new focus and he basically shut Kach down to take effect Dec 1990. He was assassinated Nov 90 in the states and they continued on their merry way as if nothing had happened. I was one of the few board members and leaders in the movement who agreed and remained loyal to the Rav.

When Binyamin - rav kahane's son and myself insisted on continuing that program, after his murder, (that was the crux of the split between rav kahane and his Kach board of directors even in his life time), they basically said, "Mike, Binyamin, the Rav is dead we will not be bound to stupid ideas that we had problems with even when he was alive, if you wish, go make your own movement but we will not tolerate you guys doing that program and certain others here". And so Kahane Chai was born and cofounded by myself and Rav Binyamin Kahane in 1990. The folks in Tapuach from the Gareen that I had started there in 1989 supported Binyamin and myself in our new endeavor with exception to a few folks that went with the original Kach.

Slowly but surely with the help of G-d and hard work around the globe we gained the support of  most of the old members and chapters as well as a lot of new people.

Binyamin and his wife were murdered 6 years ago.

Note that Mr HaIvri who is married to Moly who was born the sister of Taly, who was Binyamin's wife. In other words David and Binyamin were brothers -in -Law. In any event in the initial years of Kahane Chai Mr HaIvri was close to Rav Binyamin and his neighbor. Later on, HaIvri became frustrated with Binyamin's "lack of assertiveness" and he went his own way, supporting Agudat Yisrael in former elections. Rav Binyamin naturally opposed and condemned this move. HaIvri later opened his own groups and distanced himself from Rav Binyamin. The two were not on particularly good terms prior to Rav Binyamin's murder.

After Binyamin's assassination MR HaIvri left the various failed business and organizational ventures he was operating and became a very dominant force among those who wished to continue to publish Rav Binyamin's writings and parsha newsletter. I, who had been the codirector of international Kahane activities from NY, saw no particular problem with Mr HaIvri playing a central role in preparing the bi-weekly parsha sheet for production and distribution. While understanding that he lacked the ability to manage content or do much more, I permitted him and the others in Tapuach to gather old writings and prepare a parsha sheet to be sent out every other week. haIvri's role was more to collect funds and to make sure that the people who prepared ocntent and who stuffed the enevelopes came in every few weeks to do just that...

 I figured that there was little room to go wrong. At best some importnat writings would be recirculated. At worst the project would fall apart due to lack of funds or lack of new material and lack of interest. What ultimately did happen.

At a meeting after the murder of Rav Binyamin some key activists met and discussed who should run things, so to speak. It was requested of myself, after I had now returned to Israel to take on the leadership of the organization in Israel. Whatever. And Rav Richter was asked to assume some sort of spiritual leadership position. I saw no need for formalities and was quite busy with Jewish Legion affairs, and other personal and organizatinal issues, however, I did commit to "Keep an eye on things" and  promised to make myself available AS NEEDED. Since the whole local activity amounted to a bi - weekly publishing of the parsha sheet and perhaps a reprinting of a book once a year, I figured the local 2-3 people who were preparing the page content and HaIvri coming in to the office once every few weeks to make sure things were being packed etc would suffice. Naturally,  I came to regular editorial meetings and helped submit materials when requested to do so.

While I thought it was odd that Haivri should draw a full time salry for doing no much more than overseeing production and mailing not more than 5-10 hours a week or a month to do that, I supported the continuation of the new status quo.

Eventually, I saw that the newsletter was not reflecting some of the key programs and that in fact the B Kahane newsletter took a turn resembling the Kach side of the debate and not the Kahane Chai style and content, and worse I saw that certain unworthy individulas were being given editorial disgression and that the parsha started to literally emphasize the building of HaIvri and yisrael Cohen in a cult style fashion as well as their new group revava. It was at this point that I privately stepped forward and tryed to have them rehabilitate  the parsha sheet which started to look like their own personal campaign for Prime Minster or something. I insisted that the editorial borad meet and that there be a board to oversee the content.

As time went on, the parsha sheet came out less, and less, up to the point where it perhaps comes out 5-6 times out of 52 weeks per year. No great harm, in my opinion. The parsha sheet was used more as a platform to sell HaIvri, Cohen and revava than to spread a necessary and actual message of truth. As one of the founders of Kahane Chai and of the parsha sheet and as al eader in those movements, I recently took the initiative to reinstate the parsha sheet, on a weekly basis.

It is incredible. People that had not seen the page for a year or two now see it and they are so thirsty for it. New people are calling daily to receive our message. I am sorry I did not take the initiative long ago. No matter. That is the history of the split with Kach and the split within what was once known as Kahane Chai if you want to call it that.

I dont care about splits. I care about getting out a message that people want and need to hear now more than ever. I have no problem with HaIvri or the Kach people on a personal level and they should all live and be well. As for the projects such as the Parsha sheet that I was a cofounder of, I am committed to trying my best to continue to get the word out period.

I am obsessed with 2 messages today: the Forty Year message, this being the fortieth year since the liberation of the Temple Mount and a year for Israel to deside its destiny and fate and the message of referendum or revolution. The people are ripe to demand to decide their own destiny here. We see the masses moving in that direction. It is sad that so  many former Kahane people fail to realize the power and the role of the masses to topple the corrupt regime in Israel. I think Rav Kahane's books forty years and revolution are prophetic and vital to be broadcasted loudly and clearly today more than ever, The HaiVris and Marzels dont share that view. That is their right. And it is my right to focus on the messages that I think are vital. Split? I dont know, I dont care. We have a job to do and we will get it done with whoever wishes to join us. I have the ability to move forward and organize programs to create platforms for these messages and for Rav Kahane's proposals to save Jews. Young people are joining daily. We must continue, in spite of the obstacles that the governments place in our way. With G-d's help we will succeed. Time is running out. Who has time to talk about splits. The question is what needs to be done. Let us not ask how we will do it, but get the job done with those who share our views and who wish to join us.

We need to reconnect with the thousands ij the street who need and wnat to see our message. It is a shame that 5-6 of the oldtimers may think they kno wbetter than Rav Kahane. No matter. It is more important to go out otthe masses and to connect with the hundreds of thousands of people who are waiting ot hear direction from us. Over recent years, the people on the streets have lost contact with any of the Kahane movements. Now, with organizational coordination back on track and with a message fo substance I am rebuilding the ties with the old chapters nad with the new people. Split? Quit ethe ocntrary! Hard work and good work in the right direction and with a passion and dedication coupled by new organizational talent to reignite that Kahane torch in every town thorugout Israel. Split? Nah, the way it once was and the way it shall be gain, with G-d's help in spite of government persecution and in soite of years of inaction, incompetency and lack of direction by those who thought they knew better than Rav Kahane.

[jsullivan]

Guzofsky does NOT say that revava supports the Kach approach.  He claims that at one point HaIvri was supporting the Kach side in the split.  I don't if that's true, but anything is possible with HaIvri, who has always been a fraud taking all types of different positions over the years.

Today revava does NOT support Kach or the Kahanist movement.

As Guzofsky mentions, HaIvri supported the anti-Zionist whores of Agudah in the Knesset elections.  The same Agudah that currently is part of the Smolmert coalition government.  The same Agudah that was against the creation of a Jewish state in 1948.  The same Agudah that was a part of Ben Gurion's coalition government when Sephardi Jewish children were sent to anti-religious schools where they were taught to abandon the Torah and the mitzvot. 

When Guzofsky writes about his decision to try to split the Kahanist movement, he again says many things that are untrue.  Chaim dealt with this issue on the last Ask JTF program.

Let's stop worrying about these irrelevant little splinter groups.  The former Kach group that JTF supports is the only HEBREW SPEAKING, NATIVE ISRAELI Kahanist movement.  Guzofsky's group and revava are English-speaking American Jews who cannot possibly appeal to Hebrew-speaking native Israelis in a serious way.

However, there is a difference between Guzofsky's group and revava.  We disagree with Guzofsky's decision to split the Kahanist movement, and with other aspects of what he is doing.  But despite our differences with him, Guzofsky is not an evil person.  HaIvri and revava ARE evil.  They allowed one of their administrators to compare Chaim to Hitler!  All they do is preach hatred against good Jews.  They are the scum of the earth.

[TheCoon]

I agree with jsullivan. We see what happens when real right-wing movements around the world splinter because some leaders have their own agenda. It allows crazy leftists to fill the void in any situation where it happens. It appears Revava is no different.

[davkakach]

HaIvri and revava ARE evil.  They allowed one of their administrators to compare Chaim to Hitler!  All they do is preach hatred against good Jews.  They are the scum of the earth.

I'm saddened to learn about this.   

Only JTF and the organizations it endorses are the "real deal."

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

no offense but jsullivan your criticism of David Haivri isnt based on anything solid- its just becuase some 1 on the forum called chaim a name , ill let you know that David H. isnt allways active on the forum and ho personally doesnt allways read and see whats going on the forum, he mainly makes some of his article posts from time to time and thats pretty much all. soo if he personally called chaim something then thats a diff. story.

[davkakach]

Tzvi,

At first, I, too, was skeptical.  But over the years I came to realize
that when JTF makes a statement, that statement is almost always
true, no matter how difficult it is for you or me to accept it.
JTF doesn't criticize fellow Jews lightly, and when it does, you
can be certain that it is justified.

JTF is the real deal, because Chaim performs the most
important Mitzvah in the entire Torah---he cleaves onto HaShem
and accepts unconditionally the yoke of heaven.  Ultimately, JTF
will prevail, and those who oppose it, for whatever reason, will
not.  JTF is the closest to what Kach used to be under the wise
and courageous guidance of Rav Kahane HY"D, and, again, the
fact that Noam Federman chooses to post his recorded programs
on JTF and not on other websites should speak volumes about
JTF's credibility.

[Scriabin]

...the fact that Noam Federman chooses to post his recorded programs
on JTF and not on other websites should speak volumes about
JTF's credibility.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

GREAT post Davkakach!

[Nahum]

What an interesting thread.  What is even more interesting is that after Rav Kahane HY"D was kicked out of the knesset, he removed himself from Kach and tried to dismantle the organization.  Baruch Marzel and Itamar decided to keep it going against the wishes of Rav Kahane HY"D.  Im not saying that Marzel or Itamar are bad people because they are not.  They are good leaders that are making a positive difference in the movement.  Im just saying that at the end, not even Rav Kahane HY"D was part of the Kach approach.  The problem today, with almost all the leaders, is that everyone that worked directly for Rav Kahane HY"D said that they were fulfilling and doing exactly what Rav Kahane HY"D would have done.  What is a fact is that at the end of Rav Kahane's life, after he tried to dismantle Kach due to its ban from the knesset, he decided that maybe the israeli political approach was not working.  His last book, "revolution or referendum" is proof to this claim.  The idea of the State of Judea was Rav Kahane's last and final approach.  This did not stop Kach NOR Kahane Chai from trying to enter the knesset again. 

I happen to work for Yekutiel Ben Yaakov, AKA Mike Guzofsky.  In regards to Kahane Chai or -there - after being an only english speaking american organization, that is simply incorrect.  It was co founded in Israel by Binyamin Kahane HY"D and Guzofsky.  There was a headquarters in Israel as well as the US.  Many of the members where both Israeli and outsiders exactly the same as Kach was.  In fact, most of the original members were Kach members. Even today, most of the people that i work with are Israeli born Jews.

I see myself as a more modern Kahanist.  I was not around for the split not do i really care about it today.  All I see, is a bunch of groups that have the exact same goal but different ways of accomplishing it.  There are many grudges and rifts between the men that worked directly for Rav Kahane HY"D.  That is not my business nor will it effect what i do or how i feel about the message.  I attend event hosted by ex Kach members just the same as I do by ex Kahane Chai members.  If i disagree with another groups tactics, it does not anger me because regardless it is a push in the right direction.  ALTHOUGH, this may sound a little hypocritical but I am in full agreeance with you in regards to Revava.  There is one moderator on the revava forum that I happen to like a lot and respect and i can not understand why he still works with the Revava people.  They have proven time after time... nevermind.  We all know what they have proven themselves to be.  Jsullivan described them pretty well in his last post. 

I have deep respect for Chaim and his endeavors and i wish him well in his goals today and in the future.

[jdl4ever]

Nice post Nahum .  I am a supporter of Mike Guzofsky and the kahane.org people and don't like a lot of JTF's approach but none the less I give my regards to Chaim since we are all aiming for the same goal. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

whats wronge with Revava or any of the guys their, will some 1 please explain to me, write it privatly to me or whateva, but not once was their a real reason of why revava is bad. maybe im not seeing something, or maybe people here have something personal, i dont know.

[Nahum]

Also, to add to my point earlier, Baruch Marzel was born in the US.

[Nahum]

There are many faults for Revava and many people dislike them for different reasons.  Personally, i dislike them because they banned me from their forum.  Not because i spoke irrationally or vulgarly, but because i dared to argue their "stance" with a rational and logical approach.  If you dare disagree with any of their moderators, you will be subjected to loshon hora, scorn, embarrasment, and in the end you will be banned from their forum where you will continue to be picked on without the ability to argue back.  I have a serious bone to pick with one of their moderators; Elisha AKA Yissachar.  He has said and done things that are unimaginally devestating and horrible. If you want details, here is a short one for ya.  There was an American that joined a group of defenders in Kfar Tapuach (Samaria, West Bank). His name is Jeff.  Jeff was caught by the shin bet for smuggling a sniper rifle into Israel.  Since he was part of our community, Mike Guzofsky felt as though he would help Jeff out with the lawyer fees.  Mike does this for a lot of kahanistim that are persecuted by the government.  He creates fliers, posters, letters, tv shows, interviews, etc... all in effort to bring attention to the cause and of course to help fundraise.  Now, when one is first arrested, there is a service called Honenu.  Honenu is a group of lawyers that help out with the pretrial.  Once pretrial is over you must obtain your own lawyer.  When Mike was calling out for fundraising, Elisha decided to spread the rumor that Jeff already had a lawyer and Mike was unjustly fundraising.  Anyone that knows mike including his enemies knows that he has never done such a thing.  Now, Jeff is left without a lawyer and Mike is suffering, trying to raise money for him in lue of Elishas vicous attacks.  It was a sick thing to do to Jeff as well as Mike.  Everyone knows that Elisha was in the wrong and yet he still refuses to apologize or admit he was wrong. 

What does this have to do with Revava?  Well Elisha is praised by his leader and commander in arms, David Haivri everytime he makes a move against kahane.org, jewish legion, and the rest of mikes endeavors.  Not only that, but he was made moderator over an attack against kahane.org.  Not only that but they are proclaimed to not be part of the movement and not related to was once kach or kahane chai.  Not 100% of them are rotten but the goods ones are certainly the minority. 

This is only one example of how sick they are.  I could write a book about some of the disgusting things that go on there. 

I must add one more thing.  There is however, one good moderator of their forum that is a good friend of mine and should not be mixed in with this mess.  He is the only left that brings logic to the table and even then sometimes his own posts are deleted by his fellow moderators.  Not even the moderators are able to speak freely there. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Elisha also deleted a message I posted about Ask Yekutiel. I also happened to mention JTF in the post about how Mike got the idea from Ask JTF.

I also got this messages from Elisha:

Yissachar
Moderator

Posts: 1021


Proud #1 on Yekutiel's hitlist!


   (No subject)
« Sent to: kahanechaivekayam on: Today at 05:48:41 PM »     

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Items relating to Yekutiel and JTF are irrelevant to this forum. Please keep this in mind in the future.

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In a bad mood, as usual

Yacov i think you just opened something unnecessary and stupid, their are obviously private problems and grudges that these diff people have against eachother, in all these quarrells no one makes sense, and people try attacking one another for stupid ego infated reasons sometimes, and then we ask why we arent helped by Hashe-m in our struggles for the greater Israel.

[kahaneloyalist]

There better things to focus on but here are the reasons I am unhappy with Revava

Revava has made clear they are not Kahanist

Revava was in charge of the Parsha sheet which went from a weekly to a bi-monthly(at best) when they were in charge

Revava recently stopped publishing the parsha sheet

Revava used the Kahane Chai donor list to raise a lot of money that never did anything besides provide for the salaries of the people in charge

Yisrael Meir Cohen, who runs Revava with David Haivri, is by his own admission an ex-shabak agent

Revava has consistently worked to undermine any work done by Mike Guzofsky out of a personnal vendetta by Elisha against Mike

[Nahum]

The list goes on and on.  Listen Tsvi, I dont know what your relationship with Revava is, but if you are involved with them or donate money you must know that you have been warned.  Eventually you will either get burnt by them or disgusted.  It took about 8 months for it to happen to me.  I could dig up some details and make a different arguement but i dont think it would be enough for you.  after my last post, after what he did to Jeff, i dont understand how you can not see the logic to Elishas and Revavas blind hatred toward Kahanistim. 

[Mishmaat]

Wow. My account there is now deleted.

[kahaneloyalist]

who were you on Revava?

[Mishmaat]

The same username as on here -- I just rarely posted there.

[Yekutiel]

To set the record straight:

1- I dont think HaIvri or Y Cohen have any bad intentions.
2- They are both dedicated Jews who have done good things, even great things for Jews.
3- The parsha was coming out every other week when Rav Binyamin was murdered not weekly.
4- Yisrael Cohen never admitted to working for Shin Bet or police against right wing Jews, as far as I know. He had said that in the past he worked against Leftist Jews, just as Federman had admitted working for police but in his opinion to give disinformation re Kahane activities, kind of a doubleagent type of thing. I am not judging or justifying either here. However, both claim that it was  an issue of the past and that they never harmed good Jews. I have no way of measuring this and only have their own words to go by. I would work with both on various levels and do continue to do so.
5- In ideology I am probably closer to Federman today than to HaIvri. There are three main camps of philosophy among the Kahane people who count. One is strictly political activism like Marzel and Ben Gvir. Another is anti the system and believes that it all has to fall and that we should have nothing to do with the army or elections like Federman, Lenny and Baruch Ben Yosef. And then there are those who think that they can reinvent the wheel, make cosmetic changes more applicable for today, I think Revava falls into that side, where they think that a newand fresh focus or a different way of presenting and packaging the views will get further than the Rav got. In their new search they often make mistakes and contradict old and tested tactics and ideology.

If Rav Kahane focused on the removal of the Hillul Hashem on the mount, they might focus on the building of the Temple and not the immediate need to erase the Hillul Hashem. Seems like a small nuance but it is not from a halachic perspective. It is consensus to say nice positive things about Moshiach and building Temples, but it is rare, dangerous and more halachically obligatory to address the immediate Hillul Hashem or immediate threat to Jewsih survival. I am not condemning Revava for joining the many who will talk about ascending the mount and building Temples. It is wonderful. However, I as a Kahanist will concentrate on the immediate threat and the immediate Hillul Hashem. I chose this as one example.

It is kind of like the debate with Yesha and gush emunim wether we focus on settlement building or on the second side of the mitzva- expeling our enemies. Revava leaders HaIvri and Cohen clearly stated in an interview that they did not see the need to focus on that anymore. While it is true Haivri was ironically tried for having shirts that read "no arabs no terror" this is clearly not his focus, by his own admission. The article and others are full of the idea that they will come to rescue the day, stop falling in the pitfall of nostalgia andmove forward with new and innovative ideas and tactics. I have not seen the new and innovative ideas or tactics. It is more like old stuff that had  been rejected by Rav Kahane or used by Rav Kahane in this form or another and if anything focusing on the stuff that was rejected by the Rav.

I dont have much of a problem with Revava though. They shouldlive and be well. I truly wish them the best of luck and appreciate much of what they do. My problem was that the group was born and built out of the Kahane data bases and people and that HaiVri and Cohen conveniently would wear the Kahane cap when it facilitated their needs and then the unKahane cap when it did not. My problem was building people and groups out of existing groups and data bases. It is like a lawyer in a law firm, making his own firm and taking the old files to do so. No doubt some of those files were his own new contacts but the idea was that there was no disclosure here and no permission granted and there was a blur over the divisions between the groups and it wasKahane=Haivri-Revava=hameir Ldavid=darka shel Troah in people's eyes.

So then joining Revava was like joining Kahane or staying in Kahane and that is simply not the case.

This non disclosure and mixing has led to confusion and distortion on many fronts.

It was clear and obvious that at some point the new revava would shed the Kahane, the parsha sheets etc..but that would be done when there is enough of a base for HaIvri and Cohen outside of the Kahane circles. They would reatin the new people and the old donors but part ways with the Kahane liabilities. That has now been done. After years of peddling Revava and themselves through the Kahane institutions as well as through their new vehicles, they now feel that the new vehicle can stand alone and actually healthier without the legal and financial liabilities of paying the legal and financial price for a weekly parsha sheet or whatever...

And so I have no current problem with Haivri. He should go his own way, we should go our own way and he should have all of the success and happiness in the world. H ei snot the enemy. And people here as well as on the Kahane forum should not waste time attacking him. he is a not a leftist as someone said here. That is outrageous.

Yes, I have a problem with his twisted moderator who does in fact undermine any and every vital program and appeal I make for prisoners and other good people. There should be accountability on the part of HaIvri for allowing this tormented soul to continue to hurt Jews but other than that, Haivri should not be attacked or maligned. If he says something that is stupid or false he should be confronted like anyone else. And if he has a bolshovic style forum that bans people who question the wisdom of his ideas and programs he should be confronted for that or for the loshon Harah spread by his forum moderators. There is nothing wrong with demanding accountability. But let us not attack him for false reasons and let us give the man credit for the wonderful things he has done. Those things dont grant him immunity. Even Avraham Avinu, the first HaIvri had no immunity and we learn from his great deeds as well as his mistakes.

[kman123]

To set the record straight:

1- I dont think HaIvri or Y Cohen have any bad intentions.

they dont have bad intentions? Haivri was caught on many occasions stealing property and money from you, Joel B and many others. he has taken over a parsha sheet and ran it to the ground until you took it iver again and started to rebuild it. maybe he didnt do that on purpose and hes just stupid?
Yisroel cohen was working for the shin bet at some point or another if he isnt still that is yet to be known but there is someone named chaim perlman who is pretty sure he spent 6 months in jail because of cohens "disinformation" to the authorities.

2- They are both dedicated Jews who have done good things, even great things for Jews.

so did sharon and many other Jews but what does that say? they have a right do what they want because they did a few good things in their life?

3- The parsha was coming out every other week when Rav Binyamin was murdered not weekly.

and when he took it over the list of people recieving it went down to half and it cme out in some cases once every few months.

4- Yisrael Cohen never admitted to working for Shin Bet or police against right wing Jews, as far as I know. He had said that in the past he worked against Leftist Jews, just as Federman had admitted working for police but in his opinion to give disinformation re Kahane activities, kind of a doubleagent type of thing. I am not judging or justifying either here. However, both claim that it was  an issue of the past and that they never harmed good Jews. I have no way of measuring this and only have their own words to go by. I would work with both on various levels and do continue to do so.

he may not have admitted to working for the authorities against right wing Jews but he did against left w ing jews and federmans own brother as well as a man by the name of Gershon Barcella both swear that they spent a long time in jail because of federmans disinformation he gave to the shin bet. so much for disinformation i guess.

[JTFrulz]

We all know that the only TRUE and LEGITIMATE representatives of the KAHANIST
movement in Israel are Noam Federman and Baruch Marzel.

While they may not agree on the issue of ELECTIONS, they do not hide their opinions
and are being TRUTHFUL.

Yekutiel is a distinguished person but he is FAR from being truthful.

Yekutiel says he is against elections but in fact he WORKED FOR Yissrael Cohen
and Michael Kleiner AGAINST Baruch Marzel.

Yekutiel says he is close to Noam Federman but he always accuses him of being
a Shabak Agent.

Yekutiel says he is represents KAHANISM but he did nothing to spread RABBI KAHANE works
since BINYAMIN KAHANE was shot by muslim terrorists. UNLESS you consider training dogs
or opening up Internet Coffee Shop.

I know nothing of REVAVA excluding their failed attempt to go to Temple Mount.

I know nothing of David HaIvri except he continued BINYAMIN KAHANE work on the
Darka Shel Torah and spreading RABBI KAHANE books together with LENNY GOLDBERG.
I wonder why Yekutiel was not the one to take over the project from the beginning.

I also see David HaIvri does not respond to wicked language against him and that may mean
he is a true JEW who hears insults and remains silent just as Noam Federman does when he
is being accused by wicked opportunists and slanderers from his own camp.

JTF should support the ones who are TRUTHFUL ,for TRUTHFULLNESS is the main value
RABBI KAHANE viewed as a test if a person is being rightworthy of the title PROUD JEW.

[kman123]

your right JTFRULZ you indeed know nothing.

Im just guessing you dont live in Israel because you would know that there is NO kahane movement it isnt headed by marzel, federman or ben gvir because it doesnt exist.

there is a memorial once a year and marzel comes to plug why he should be elected and federman talks about taking down the state and everyone basically says the same thing year after year. thats the extent of the movement.

as far as yekutiel I know that he has been publishing books like revolution or referendum, 40 years and others in hebrew and english as well as the voice of judea, and recently took over the darka shel torah thank god after it didnt get published for quite some time, he has aranged the biggest kahane event ever when he organized the hachnasat sefer torah on the tapuach hill, he ran and continues to run the national referendum campaign and many more projects all in addition to the life saving dog project.  i could go on but im not here to plug him.
as far as the elections from what i understand he didnt vote but he helped kleiner with advertising because he thought it was very noble of him to put pinner who was an inmate on his list. in fact the day before the elections yekutiel aproached kleiner and asked him if he would be interested in putting pinner at the number 1 position on his list and he said that he would do that but marzel on the other hand when approached with the same proposal declined.

[Yekutiel]

JTFrulz wrote:
"Yekutiel is a distinguished person but he is FAR from being truthful."

Actually I always thought that I was not that distinguished but I am truthful. And if you wish to attack my truth, please try and substantiate the claim. If I have made mistakes, I will try and correct it.

JT..wrote:
"Yekutiel says he is against elections but in fact he WORKED FOR Yissrael Cohen
and Michael Kleiner AGAINST Baruch Marzel."

I never said I was against elections. I said that ideologically I am probabaly closer to Federman than HaIVri. That includes many aspects of ideology. As far as elections I am not in either camp. I think that good Jews should use any tool at their disposal to save Jewish lives. I really doubt that any great salvation will, in the end come from Knesset. Yet that does not mean that certain good people wont do certain life saving things if elected. And so I might help Marzel and Kleiner and Feiglin maybe even Efi Eitam, if he keeps it up, but overall I dont see that corrupt institution saving am Yisrael, at this point...

JTF...writes:
"Yekutiel says he is close to Noam Federman but he always accuses him of being
a Shabak Agent."

That is absolutely false. I am not close to Federman. I work with him from time to time on common goals. I do see him as a friend and an ally. But we are not close and I do not say that we are. I invited him to speak at the Judean conference, I have supplied him with guard dogs. I have made a protest on his behalf when he was in prison. He is a friend and I appreciate much of his work for prisoners etc...

I DO NOT SAY THAT HE IS A SHIN BET AGENT. I do say that he says that when he was a youth 17-18 that he worked as some sort of double agent feeding the police disinformation. That is what he says. I do not believe that he has worked with or for the authorities in any capacity since then and I dont say that he is an agent. At the same time, I would never suggest to Kahane people to play the double agent stuff, because I think anything we say to the authorities, even if we work 100 percent within the law, can and will be used against us. Noam was young, and for all I know he really succeeded as a double agent. I would not and have not said that he is an agent. And it is wrong and misleading to say that this is what I have said. Federman is a good Jew. I dont have to agree with his style and everything he says. Nor do I have to agree with his decision to feed misinformation to the authorities when he was 17.

JTF says:
Yekutiel says he represents KAHANISM but he did nothing to spread RABBI KAHANE works
since BINYAMIN KAHANE was shot by muslim terrorists. UNLESS you consider training dogs
or opening up Internet Coffee Shop.

I dont say I represent Kahanism. I say that I am continuing some of the vital programs that Rav Kahane started, which others have aborted. I do say that Rav Kahane was right. I do say that I believe the Kahane ideas and programs to be the only ones that could save Israel.

What is the difference what you say or think or what I say? The US state dept seems to think that I am continuing Kahanism and they have inlcuded any group i ever started regardless of the groups stated purpose to be classified as a Kahane terrorist group, see today's news once again. The Israelis seem to feel that my work is more Kahanism than anyone elses. When was teh last time you saw teh Israeli police close down a Kahane person's private business? The Israeli highcourt upholds the closure of the kennels and the cafe because "they are continuing the Kahane legacy" see high court decisions. So maybe you can convince them that I am not Kahanist and maybe they can permit me to open a business and do the defense work that I had set out to do...

The Voice of Judea continues to publish writings of Rav Kahane. And I never stopped publishing Rav Kahane's works.

JTF... writes:
I know nothing of David HaIvri except he continued BINYAMIN KAHANE work on the
Darka Shel Torah and spreading RABBI KAHANE books together with LENNY GOLDBERG.
I wonder why Yekutiel was not the one to take over the project from the beginning.

I was. I was one of the cofounders of the parsha newsletter. And I was in the states when Rav Binyamin was killed. The moment I came back to Israel, I was asked to lead the local activities and parsha newsletter, and I continued to make sure the page came out on track. The moment I saw problems I stepped in...

I also see David HaIvri does not respond to wicked language against him and that may mean
he is a true JEW who hears insults and remains silent just as Noam Federman does when he
is being accused by wicked opportunists and slanderers from his own camp.

I have not heard any allegations leveled against Noam. As far as HaIvri, I am not bothered why he does not answer the allegations raised against him. I am bothered why he does not answer false allegations made by his puppet and pet moderator Elisha against others. It is HaIvri's group and his forum and he has someone doing his dirty work and saying the sickest Loshon Horah about others and does not say anything nor does he prevent his moderator from doing that, nor does he permit myself and others to answer the trash. So that is his briliant way of not answering? I see...He bans JTF, Kahane.org and dozens of people - mamash a righteous bastion of democracy, that Revava democratic Republic.

Jtfconcludes:
JTF should support the ones who are TRUTHFUL ,for TRUTHFULLNESS is the main value
RABBI KAHANE viewed as a test if a person is being rightworthy of the title PROUD JEW.

Fair enough so let us be honest and stop misquoting.

[Yekutiel]

In reply to Kman:

Kman, as for you final statement:

"So there is no black and white between Kach and Kahane Chai. Today the two camps blend. What ideology do you believe JTF has? They support both Marzel and Federman. Chaim has said The Chayil Party is a good idea as is The State of Judea."

I do not think the ideologies blend nor do i think the tactics blend. I think there are common goals and i think people need to bury their egos to see how to help each other on common goals.

There is ideology and there is execution and implementation of an ideology. I do not know exactly what Chaim does or exactly what he preaches. I dont think that he is leading some sort of program in Israel. As for Merzel he has a political party. I have helped him here or there during the elections, but as I said i dont see any great salvation coming from the elections, the knesset or his party... As for Federman, I dont know exactly what programs he is implementing. But if he organizes a program or event that I agree with I will say so, as I have in the past.

When Federmanmade the appeal regarding teh police inaction on the Zada lynching, I praised him and invited him on teh Voice of Judea show. Jews need to be honest and truthful indeed. And when Federman does a good thing, I priase him and offer him a podium to express himself...

 I am focusing on the Kahane referendum program among others because it is clear to me that the Kahane referendum idea is a brilliant idea and it is clear that the current call from the majority of Israelis for a people's commission of inquiry could lead to the type of emergency referendum to save Israel from its corrupt leaders. This is a time for all Kahanists to join forces in trying to guide the righteous anger of the majority of Israelis. The fact that other Kahane people dont see this is beyond me. But I suppose it is ideas like this that differentiate us from the others. And I suppose the "revolution or Referendum" approach scares the regime to the extent that they have taken unprecedented measures against me and those assisting me in these programs and campaigns...

The people of Israel will yet determine their own destiny in spite of the sick leaders in Israel and inspite of the lack of movement in this direction by most Kahane factions...

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I am focusing on the Kahane referendum program among others because it is clear to me that the Kahane referendum idea is a brilliant idea and it is clear that the current call from the majority of Israelis for a people's commission of inquiry could lead to the type of emergency referendum to save Israel from its corrupt leaders. This is a time for all Kahanists to join forces in trying to guide the righteous anger of the majority of Israelis. The fact that other Kahane people dont see this is beyond me. But I suppose it is ideas like this that differentiate us from the others. And I suppose the "revolution or Referendum" approach scares the regime to the extent that they have taken unprecedented measures against me and those assisting me in these programs and campaigns...

Yekutiel dont you see that the Referendum idea is a joke, if the great Rav Kahane wasnt able to accomplish this ideal, then you believe that any one else can? I understand that you want positive change and still belive in the origional Rav Kahane's approach, but we have to see the reality and we have to see that being part of the system and trying to work within ( Marzel) or making a referendum (you) or any other democracy nonsense (as if democracy has any true say in Judaism or that a majority counts).