Author Topic: The Pope is anti Capitalist?  (Read 784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« on: November 27, 2013, 01:41:25 PM »
What do American Catholics think about this? Please no fighting about this, I'll remove thread.

http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/11/the-vaticans-journey-from-anti-communism-to-anti-capitalism/281874/

It seems the whole world is turning against Jews and Right Wing Americans...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 05:25:57 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline NoMosqueHere

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1150
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 05:57:15 PM »
Hitler was a catholic; or at least was raised in the catholic church.   The church never excommunicated or even condemned Hitler for his crimes against humanity.  Is it surprising that many sensible and sensitive catholics have abandoned their church?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 06:19:47 PM by NoMosqueHere »

Online cjd

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8994
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 09:47:55 AM »
Hitler was a catholic; or at least was raised in the catholic church.   The church never excommunicated or even condemned Hitler for his crimes against humanity.  Is it surprising that many sensible and sensitive catholics have abandoned their church?
Have mercy :::D During the war Hitler could have taken over the Vatican with very little resistance at all... Why would the pope subject his church to that sort of situation knowing that there was nothing to stop it once it started... Despite popular thinking the church made some efforts where it could to shelter Jews even opening the Pope's summer residence to as many as 400 Jews to live in relative safety... The Vatican even opened many other church owned properties as shelters where it could... By killing himself Hitler excommunicated himself and there was little point in the church prolonging the issue after he was dead and gone... Hitler was a Catholic in name only... He had little use for the church and made it a well known fact that if he won the war it would be a very different picture for the church... The RCC is growing in the third world far faster than it is in developed countries so it only natural for this pope to say the things he has... With over a billion members the church will gain a few and loose a few as the Vatican's position on issues change but in the larger picture the church will continue on as it has for some centuries to come if not forever.

Quote
In August 1939, the new pope, Pius XII, made a global appeal to the world from Castel Gandolfo: "Nothing is lost with peace, everything may be lost in a war." But his warnings were ignored and, within a few years, both war and Nazi terror would also reach Rome and its surroundings. In 1943, German soldiers would occupy the Eternal City and began deporting Roman Jews. Pius XII initially didn't react to the persecution of Jews taking place outside his windows. Later, he would order churches, cloisters and other Vatican properties -- including Castel Gandolfo -- to be used to shelter for those being targeted.

Several hundred Jews were supposedly kept hidden and provided with kosher food at the summer residence. Gaining more precise information about this matter is difficult because the related Vatican files are still sealed. What is certain, however, is that in October 1943, the Vatican dispatched a contingent of papal Palatine Guards to stand guard at Castel Gandolfo. This unit was then gradually strengthened by volunteers until the Vatican exclave was protected by thousands.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 10:14:44 AM »
Thank you cjd, for your input. Don't you think the Popes words could have a negative effect on America or even hatred... Also a lot of people connect Capitalism with Zionism.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10529
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 11:00:48 AM »
The pope is also pro homo.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5760
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 11:22:05 AM »
בס''ד

cjd, I almost always agree with what you write on this forum. But I cannot be silent when it comes to claims about the holocaust.

1. If the Pope had condemned the mass murder of Jews and other innocents, and had warned Catholics that they would face hellish punishment if they participated in this monstrous crime, the holocaust could have been prevented. Because the most brutal murderers of Jews in the holocaust were Catholics. Auschwitz and most of the other Nazi death camps were deliberately located in Catholic Poland because Hitler knew that the Jew-hating Poles would be happy to assist in the holocaust. In fact, the overwhelming majority of Nazi death camp guards were Catholics. Austria, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Croatia and Slovakia are all Catholic nations - every one of these countries enthusiastically murdered their Jewish populations. The vast majority of the over 6 million Jews who were slaughtered were butchered by Catholics. Catholic Bishops in Germany and Austria blessed Hitler. Catholic priests were sent by the Church to the Nazi death camps to conduct church services for the Nazi death camp guards while tens of thousands of Jewish men, women and children were being burned and gassed every day.

2. The Vatican was liberated by the Allies along with Italy in 1943. By that time, 2 million Jews had been murdered. So the other 4 million Jews who were later murdered from 1943 to 1945 could certainly have been saved. But even then, the Pope and the Vatican refused to condemn the mass murder of Jews. In fact, the Vatican maintained diplomatic relations with Nazi Germany until the last day of the war in May 1945. This is the same Vatican that refused to establish diplomatic relations with Israel from 1948 until 1993. In 1993, the Vatican finally agreed to establish relations with Israel in order to encourage the Oslo suicide process that had started that year. The Vatican stubbornly insisted upon maintaining diplomatic relations with Nazi Germany throughout the holocaust until the last day of the war. But the same Vatican stubbornly refused to diplomatically recognize Israel for 45 years.

3. The Vatican has excommunicated Catholics for going against Church teaching. But the Church has refused to excommunicate Hitler or a single Nazi war criminal. That means that Hitler and all of the many Catholic Nazi war criminals remain in the Church's baptismal records as Catholics in good standing.

4. When Jews were being murdered and sought refuge all over the world, if the Vatican had urged Catholic nations to accept Jewish refugees, millions could have been saved. But the Pope and the Church remained silent during the holocaust. The same Vatican suddenly finds its voice to constantly condemn tiny Israel for defending herself. The claim that the Vatican sought to save Jews during the holocaust is laughable - in the vast majority of cases, churches refused to offer refuge to Jews. In the few cases where refuge was offered, the Church usually had a pre-condition: Jews being rescued had to be baptized and become Catholics, otherwise they were sent away to be burned and gassed in the Nazi death camps.

5. The one group that the Church did try to rescue was the Nazi war criminals fleeing after the war. Thousands of Nazi war criminals escaped to Catholic countries in Latin America with the assistance of the Vatican.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10681
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 12:19:50 PM »
Have mercy :::D During the war Hitler could have taken over the Vatican with very little resistance at all... Why would the pope subject his church to that sort of situation knowing that there was nothing to stop it once it started... Despite popular thinking the church made some efforts where it could to shelter Jews even opening the Pope's summer residence to as many as 400 Jews to live in relative safety... The Vatican even opened many other church owned properties as shelters where it could... By killing himself Hitler excommunicated himself and there was little point in the church prolonging the issue after he was dead and gone... Hitler was a Catholic in name only... He had little use for the church and made it a well known fact that if he won the war it would be a very different picture for the church... The RCC is growing in the third world far faster than it is in developed countries so it only natural for this pope to say the things he has... With over a billion members the church will gain a few and loose a few as the Vatican's position on issues change but in the larger picture the church will continue on as it has for some centuries to come if not forever.
The Pope could have condemn Hitler and break diplomatic relations After Rome had been liberated in June 1944. He could very easily speak against Hitler and the Nazis and the holocaust but he didn't, and he maintained diplomatic relationship with Nazi Germany till the end of the 3rd Reich.

Offline syyuge

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7684
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 03:07:14 PM »
Never knew that and never thought of it.

Now as on today being anti-capitalist almost tantamount to being pro-muslamic leftist. What has he started doing, Petrus Romanus? 
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Online cjd

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8994
Re: The Pope is anti Capitalist?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 06:22:39 AM »
The Pope could have condemn Hitler and break diplomatic relations After Rome had been liberated in June 1944. He could very easily speak against Hitler and the Nazis and the holocaust but he didn't, and he maintained diplomatic relationship with Nazi Germany till the end of the 3rd Reich.
I had not intended to respond further since I agree with many of the points Chaim made in his above post and that more could have been done on all fronts including by the Vatican... I still wonder what would have happened to the RCC clergy and some Catholics in the still occupied parts of Europe had the Pope acted as Chaim suggests... For every case of the church being in bed with the Nazis there is a case where they were doing some good to help Jews on a local level... Had the Pope spoke out in 1944 even this limited help could have been lost... The countries that Chaim spoke of Austria, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Croatia and Slovakia were not going to be held back in their slaughter of their Jewish populations by the pope or anyone else... From what I have read over the years countries like this were all to happy to turn over their Jewish population either passively or aggressively to the Nazis for extermination... Sadly Catholics in countries like this were not going to go against popular thinking and listen to the pope or any other clergy unless they already had it in their hearts to do so... From people like this is where I feel the small amount of help came from... It was a very sad time in that part of the world where it was sadly a every man for himself situation and most people would either turn their backs or try to save themselves at the expense of others.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years