Murdering fully formed babies is legal in America (new video)

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

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[Irish Zionist]

A real shame these "women" weren't aborted. 

[TruthSpreader]

Abortion is murder.

[Rubystars]

I want to watch this video but I need to know if there are any graphic dead baby pictures in it first. I don't share graphic imagery on my timeline unless it's invisible behind a link with a strong warning so I need to know this for that reason too.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I want to watch this video but I need to know if there are any graphic dead baby pictures in it first. I don't share graphic imagery on my timeline unless it's invisible behind a link with a strong warning so I need to know this for that reason too.

Nope it's all good.

[kyel]

Michelle Obama: partial-birth abortion is "legitimate medical procedure"
 
By Gina Miller

On the eve of the most critical presidential election in our nation's history, it is worth revisiting the despicable words of the wife of the criminal occupier of our White House. On Tuesday, Life News posted an image of a 2004 fundraising letter Michelle Obama wrote in support of Barack Obama (or whatever his name is), as he ran for the U.S. Senate in Illinois.

In the letter, Michelle Obama laments the "rise of conservatism in this country..." Oh, the horror! That awful conservative ideology is rising, pushed by those scary people who love God and our nation as founded, who cherish our Constitution, our freedom, our national sovereignty and American heritage!

She is specifically "concerned" with the rise of conservatism as it "relates to women," or more correctly, as it relates to a woman's ability to kill her pre-born baby. It is not early-term abortion she is talking about (although that is bad enough), but barbaric, partial-birth abortion.

From the American Family Association Journal, here is a basic description of it:

In a nutshell, a partial birth abortion typically involves an abortionist reaching into the uterus, grabbing the unborn baby's leg with forceps, and pulling the still-living baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb. The abortionist then sticks scissors into the back of the baby's skull and spreads the tips of the scissors apart to enlarge the wound. He then removes the scissors, inserts a suction catheter, and sucks the baby's brains out. The collapsed head is then removed from the uterus.

This gruesome, obscene "procedure," visited on middle trimester to near full-term pre-born babies, was outlawed by congressional legislation signed by President George W. Bush in 2003. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the federal partial-birth abortion ban in 2007, but in her 2004 letter, Michelle Obama was pushing for Barack Obama's U.S. Senate run, in part, so he could help thwart pro-life Supreme Court nominees by President Bush, in order that the partial-birth abortion ban might be declared unconstitutional by a Supreme Court stacked with liberals.

And, we certainly know that Michelle Obama is not going off the range here. She is like-minded with Barack Obama, who was one of the most radically pro-abortion members of the Illinois State Senate, voting repeatedly against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which would require doctors to give medical care to babies who survived abortions. He supports letting tiny babies die, if the "doctor" trying to kill them failed to get the job done. Barack Obama is an abortion extremist who does not want any restrictions on abortion at all.

In the letter, speaking of the partial-birth abortion ban, Michelle Obama wrote,

The fact remains, with no provision to protect the health of the mother, this ban on a legitimate medical procedure is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned.

It's "clearly" unconstitutional? What is "unconstitutional" about requiring life-saving care for a baby who survives an abortion? And, further, in what kind of sick, twisted mind is the abominable, partial-birth murder of a baby considered a "legitimate medical procedure"? Only in the mind of Hell and Hell's minions.

As for the usual arguments about abortion being "acceptable" in cases of rape, incest and to protect the health or life of the mother, these abortion defenses are shown for the fallacies they are by the Association of Pro-Life Physicians in an excellent, concise report titled, "Are There Rare Cases When an Abortion Is Justified?". In answering these pro-abortion arguments, the piece states,

It is easy to prove that these objections to the pro-life ethic are insincere. What if someone brought up these arguments to justify the killing of an infant: "The baby was conceived through rape" — "The infant is deformed and mentally handicapped" — "The mother's health is suffering as a result of her baby." Would anyone who endorses abortion in the womb openly justify the killing of an infant using these excuses? No, they would not. This proves that these objections are insincere and that the heart of the matter is whether the fetus is a living human. If it could be proven that the human fetus is just as alive and just as human as the infant, then these objections would not justify aborting a fetus any more than an infant.

... We should not kill an unborn baby to alleviate the suffering of the mother any more than we should kill her infant to alleviate her suffering. Neither should we commit an abortion of a malformed fetus in order to prevent his or her suffering later in life. Being handicapped is not a capital crime. The intentional destruction of health is not compassionate and it is not healthcare, it is assault. We must not be swayed from our pro-life ethic by emotional appeals that admittedly swell our eyes with tears. Truth and compassion prevent us from this fatal compromise.

The piece goes on to address the issue of ectopic pregnancy and ends up shooting holes in the "health of the mother" and other arguments for abortion.

Michelle Obama's 2004 letter, in which she insanely uses partial-birth baby killing as a fundraising topic for Obama's Senate run, shows her repugnant mind. It is essential that we get out on Election Day and vote this malevolent Obama duo out of our White House. People like Barack and Michelle Obama, who have such utter disdain for innocent human life, would not likely hesitate to embrace murderous tyranny over their fellow man and especially their perceived "enemies."

[Debbie Shafer]

So What if the murderers had been aborted by their mothers...they wouldn't be here either...Its an insane world, and the Lord has to be very angry!

[Rubystars]

Nope it's all good.

It's a good video but there is one part with what appears to be a cut up baby that's partially obscured by some text. I'm just glad it wasn't in clear focus. I have to be careful what I share on my timeline because some of the people on there have had self harm issues or PTSD and I don't want to post graphic stuff for their sake. So showing a cut up baby with blood all around it isn't exactly something I can share with them.

[Debbie Shafer]

Mark 9:42 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if a milestone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.   God will deal harshly with child murderers!   

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Abortion is murder.

 I know I might get attacked for this, but I don't see how abortion is murder? I don't believe it is from a Halahic stand point. Abortion generally speaking is wrong, but it cannot and should not be equated with murder since the fetus is not considered a human being at the time. Leaving aside the issues for Noahides, I head that for Jewish women it certainly isn't considered murder and that in certain cases should be encouraged (besides if it poses a danger to the women which everyone knows) also in cases of it being a Mamzer, or even if some genetic problems are discovered and it will not be living a good life (being somewhat deformed or something).

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Well here is a list from most lenient to most strict in ascending order.

 This blog discusses this and other medical issues at length.

http://rationalistmedicalhalacha.blogspot.com/2011/02/now-that-i-have-completed-my.html


1.Tosfos - abortion is Muttar
2.Ran and Rosh - abortion is muttar as long as you are not putting the mother in physical danger by terminating the pregnancy
3.Ramban, Ramah, Behag - Abortion is a bad thing because we are preventing the existence of a future Human being and shomer Mitzvos, but it is still permitted to do in extenuating circumstances
4.Maharit - Abortion is assur because one is wounding, or causing a chavallah, in the pregnant mother.  According to this approach, abortions would be permitted for constructive purposes, in the same way that one is allowed to wound oneself for a constructive purpose.  Some would extend this even further and say that a woman can abort her own fetus, just as she is allowed to wound herself.
5.Rav ZN Goldberg 's understanding of the Rambam - that abortion would be prohibited due to chavallah of the fetus (this would be an additional reason for the prohibition, above whatever understanding you may have of the Rambam, and above other reasons suggested by HaRav Goldberg in other places. I am not claiming that HaRav Goldberg holds that this is the only reason why an abortion may be prohibited.  - see our lengthy discussion of the Rambam's opinion here)
6.According to the Ohr Sameakh's understanding of the Rosh, one who performs an abortion without the permission of the parents is transgressing the prohibition of gezeilah, stealing.
7.According to HaRav SZA ZTL one who aborts a fetus is guilty of gezeilah from the fetus him/herself.  Whether or not the parents would be allowed to give permission remains an open question.
8.Chavos Yair,  due to the prohibition of wasting seed (which according to him is a torah prohibition)
9.According to the Mizrachi and Rav Chaim Palagi and their interpretation of the Rishonim,  the Chachamim declared that a Jew is prohibited from performing an abortion because a gentile is prohibited, and it would be inappropriate for a Jew to be allowed to do something that is prohibited to a gentile.  They explicitly and vehemently reject the possibility that it has anything to do with Shefichat damim (murder).
10.According to R Yaakov Emden, abortions are prohibited because of waste, which is a rabbinic aspect of the HZL prohibition; therefore they can be performed in circumstances of great need. If the child is illegitimate from a relationship that would incur the death penalty, the RYE would allow it outright.
11.The opinion of the Beit Yehuda and the Chofetz Chaim (according to his interpretation of Tosfos) that it was a rabbinic decree and the reason for this decree was because it is akin to murder.
12.Abortion is a rabbinic decree because permitting abortions would encourage promiscuity (Chavos Yair 31)
13.Abortion is a rabbinic decree because it would be a negation of the mitzvah of P’ru U’rvu (the obligation to procreate) (Mishpetei Uziel here)
14.Abortion was a rabbinic decree because it will prevent the potential of a future life (Mishpetei Uziel here)
15.Abortion was a rabbinic decree because by terminating a pregnancy, one prevents a future soul from doing mitzvos (Ohel Moshe by Rav Moshe Zweig Chelek 3 page 49)
16.Abortions are considered morally wrong by other religions, and thus we should also take a moral stand (Ohel Moshe, see above)
17.The opinion of Rav Moshe Feinstein that it is indeed prohibited due to murder
18.The opinion of the Maharam Shick and Sdei Chemed that it is Avizrayhu of retzichah due to chatzi shiur
19.The opinion of the Minchas Avrohom that it is due to murder but he differs from RMF by only applying this rule if the fetus is viable
20.The opinion of the Meshekh chochmah and Moshav Zekeinim LeDaas Baalei Tosfos who hold that it is murder and liable "medin shamayim", and the drasha of rabbi yishmael only exempts Jews from punishment from Beit Din
21.One more opinion is that of the Zohar, which I did not discuss because it is unclear from the Zohar what the Zohar actually holds from a Halachic perspective.  The Zohar speaks about how terrible abortion is because it is ruining the creation of God. (see` Zohar Shmot 3:2)

[TruthSpreader]

 I know I might get attacked for this, but I don't see how abortion is murder? I don't believe it is from a Halahic stand point. Abortion generally speaking is wrong, but it cannot and should not be equated with murder since the fetus is not considered a human being at the time. Leaving aside the issues for Noahides, I head that for Jewish women it certainly isn't considered murder and that in certain cases should be encouraged (besides if it poses a danger to the women which everyone knows) also in cases of it being a Mamzer, or even if some genetic problems are discovered and it will not be living a good life (being somewhat deformed or something).

Because the Bible clearly states so. Just look at this website.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/physician_explains.htm

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Because the Bible clearly states so. Just look at this website.

 I thought you were Jewish, sorry.

[TruthSpreader]

I thought you were Jewish, sorry.

Who said I was Jewish.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Who said I was Jewish.

 I THOUGHT you were. Now I see otherwise. Soo ookay.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim has stated that is is murder unless there is a medical emergency and the life of the mother is in danger.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Chaim has stated that is is murder unless there is a medical emergency and the life of the mother is in danger.

 Ookay, I just stated what I heard recently from a Hacham on this (Hacham Faur). I also heard that its not the equivalent because its not considered a full life before the head comes out. That is why at least in Judaism when the mother's life is in danger she can, no must get an abortion to save her life over the life of the fetus up until the head (or majority of head) comes out. At that point even if she is in danger the baby cannot be killed because its life for a life. Before that its a question of a life (mother) vs. a not full life (or even considered a limb of the mother).

 I also provided a list of the different opinions for Jews on this issue and how they looked at this question. The question for Bnai Noah can be different, perhaps stricter and I'm not dealing nor do I know anything about this with them on this issue.

[Israel Chai]

If you're Jewish, you're not only a murderer, but you're killing the first-born that has not yet been redeemed from the Kohanim, so it's a huge sin.

http://www.divineinformation.com/613-commandments-series-16-2/

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

If the soul enters at conception... then killing the fetus is going against G-ds will. Every soul is attached to G-d and is part of G-d, by killing a soul of Hashem you are trying to hurt him. These acts by man are playing G-d and putting man over Hashem. Might as well be murder...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

If you're Jewish, you're not only a murderer, but you're killing the first-born that has not yet been redeemed from the Kohanim, so it's a huge sin.

http://www.divineinformation.com/613-commandments-series-16-2/

 Don't see how the first born has to do with anything, soo let's say its the second or third child?
 Anyway perhaps in a way you have proven the opposite because the first born is redeemed by the Kohen ONLY if it was a natural birth. A person born through a C-section wouldn't need to be "redeemed" by the Kohen. Anyway I think this is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

 Its not "murder". We could say it should be discouraged in most cases but certainly in some cases it should be done. (Besides the obvious risk to mother) I personally think if the child is retarded and such, or has a genetic disease (for example the common genetic disease that some Askenasim have and when both parent's carry that gene the child has a likelihood of being born with it).
  Also I don't know too much about this but their are certainly cases where some abortions are done in Israel with the approval of the Rabbanut. I heard this from some Haredi guy who was complaining about the "Zionist" Rabbanut who allow's abortions, but I extrapolated at least this info. that is some cases it can and should be done.
  (Anyway good to see you here, I thought you were gone?)

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

* This isn't a definite thing, each person should ask his/her own Rabbi and make a proper decision. What I said shouldn't be a Psak or anything saying it is ookay. It definitely is a serious matter and a private matter between the doctor, family and together with their Rav.

[TruthSpreader]

I THOUGHT you were. Now I see otherwise. Soo ookay.

It's okay. Christians and Jews both have their differences but they must agree on Abortion is wrong. Abortion is the death of an unborn child.