Author Topic: Polygamy  (Read 8346 times)

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Offline RationalThought110

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Polygamy
« on: August 01, 2007, 01:42:20 AM »
Anyone hear of a Mormon "prophet" named Warren Jeffs? 

Apparently he teaches the following: 

"A man must have three wives to go to heaven and own his own planet."


I saw a segment on CNN earlier about a woman who decided to escape from that Mormon church. 


One of the interviewees friends had got married at age 15. 



Is this group supposed to be what most Mormons are like or is it different?


newman

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 01:44:50 AM »
The mormon pervert church is choc-a-bloc with polygamist, phsyco whack-jobs.

Offline Vito

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 01:48:10 AM »
I don't know who's weirder, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses.. we should have a voting poll hehe.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 01:49:07 AM »
But Romney's family isn't involved in polygamy.  So is he a minority among Mormons or are the polygamists the minority? 

newman

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 01:51:19 AM »
But Romney's family isn't involved in polygamy.  So is he a minority among Mormons or are the polygamists the minority? 

I think so, but there's still a lot of them.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 01:58:58 AM »
But Romney's family isn't involved in polygamy.  So is he a minority among Mormons or are the polygamists the minority? 

I think so, but there's still a lot of them.


Which group are you saying is the minority?

newman

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 02:07:58 AM »
Polygamists

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 02:16:25 AM »
While I don't personally agree with the Mormon religion itself, being Jewish... many of the greats in the Torah had more than one wife.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

newman

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 02:22:48 AM »
While I don't personally agree with the Mormon religion itself, being Jewish... many of the greats in the Torah had more than one wife.

Polygamy is not the problem with mormon perverts. It's the fact that they also like 12 year olds and have a habbit of shooting people.

Google Ervil Lebaron and Seige at Marion.

Offline Masha

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 04:55:52 AM »
While I don't personally agree with the Mormon religion itself, being Jewish... many of the greats in the Torah had more than one wife.

They also had slaves. Chaim covered this point in one of his radio programs. Just because they were prophets and greatest people in Jewish history, it doesn't mean they were blameless. They did things according to the customs of the day.This was the custom of the day.

There is a point in Christian theology (this is an aspect of Christian theology which I studied when I was doing research in college for a paper on ethics) that says that what is ethical is revealed gradually and historically. This is why one needs to keep re-reading the scriptures. All the underlying principles are laid out in the Bible. They have to do with treating people equally, having equal respect for them, because they are equal in the eyes of G-d. But how to apply them is revealed historically. We, not only as individuals, but as historical communities, grow in the knowledge of G-d. They specifically gave an example of slavery, but I don't remember whether they specifically talked about polygamy. Before people didn't know whether slavery was wrong. Eventually they came to understand that it is so.

Now, I don't know what the Jewish sages say in the Talmud. But I would imagine that the view of at least some of them is not incompatible with what I just presented. There is no Torah commandment that forbids polygamy, but neither does the Torah prescribe it. I hear religious Jews say that women are not inferior to men as a besic principle in Judaism. Cetainly, polygamy would make them second class citizens.

I don't want to live in a polygamous society - I'd rather die, because life in a society where women are treated as lower beings is not worth living for me. I think that one woman one man should have each other in marriage. Otherwise - it's fornication. And this is what happens in islamic societies that permit polygamy. From polygamy it leads to concubines and temporary marriages (which is legalized prostitution).

There is another point. Polygamy morally wrongs men as well. Since there is an about equal ratio of men to women, then the fact that some rich men can afford multiple wives leaves other men without a possibility of having a wife, which means without a possibility of having a fruitful, productive life as G-d has intended. Why do you think islamic societies were so aggressive and raided nations around them? One of the important reasons was that there were a lot of sexually frustrated men who didn't have mates. They often killed all males, but they captured the women and took them as wives and concubines. No, both the demographic and the principle of equal worth tell us that one man should have one woman.

Offline mord

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 07:01:28 AM »
I don'nt care about Romney being a mormon,what i care about is that he's a sleazy Mass Liberal who trying in a an 'Extreme makeover' to trick people into beleiving he is a Conservative
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Ehud

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 07:29:21 AM »
I saw this segment on CNN too rationalthought.  I've heard of Warren Jeffs, he's a brutal and controlling cult fascist.  The idea about a man needing a wife to go to live on another planet as a G-d is a mainstream belief in Mormon.  It's the belief of the LDS which is the largest Mormon group.  YES THAT'S RIGHT, MORMONS BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL BECOME G0DS ON OTHER PLANETS!  THey also believe that "Elohim" is a man and the physical son of some other G0ds.  Mormonism is actually polytheism, Mormons believe in literally thousands of G0ds.  Most Mormons are not like that group though.  Mormons live a somewhat normal life (other than their beliefs) and polygamy has been outlawed in the major parts of Mormonism for over a century.  The overwhelming majority of Mormons are NOT polygamists.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline Ehud

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2007, 07:34:19 AM »
If anyone wants to see an animated video about what Mormonism is all about, check this out:



This stuff is so koo-koo, they even give Scientologists a run for their money.

Mormonism is similar to Islam in many respects.  For one, they both believe that the Bible was corrupted and that the Book of Mormon is the true word of G-d, exactly like Muslims believe. 

Come to think of it, would we even allow a Mormon into JTF?  They're almost as bad as Muslims are in my opinion.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

kellymaureen

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 07:43:42 AM »
I don't know how those women do it...I do not share ;)


Offline Masha

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 07:50:41 AM »
I don't know how those women do it...I do not share ;)



No, I would never share either. What a husband and a wife have is a sacred bond of intimacy (not just sexual). I would be extrelemy offended and humiliated if it were proposed that I share my husband with another woman.

P.S. Did you change your nic?

kellymaureen

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2007, 07:53:55 AM »
No I have always used this nic.

And I agree totally, Im not married right now but once I am no way I would share, NEVER going to happen:P
I think its a weak and poor excuse for a man who feels the need to have multiple wives, whether or not he uses religion as an excuse to do so....not to mention the multiple mother in laws ;)

Offline Masha

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2007, 07:57:24 AM »
No I have always used this nic.

My mistake! I thought you were Shoshana.  :-[ :-[ :-[ Now I see you are not the same person.

Offline Shoshana

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2007, 09:18:01 AM »
No I have always used this nic.

My mistake! I thought you were Shoshana.  :-[ :-[ :-[ Now I see you are not the same person.

My pic is the same too. ;)

On to polygamy-
I agree with kellymaureen. I'm not married but have been and I could never share my husband. I think it's just sick that someone would want to.
Maybe in biblical days there were valid reasons for polygamy but in modern times those don't hold any water.

Offline Ehud

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2007, 09:29:27 AM »
The girls in some branches of Mormonism are brainwashed from day one to believe that if they are to become a G-d and ascend to a distant planet to rule over it as G-d, they must accept that they are to be one of the many wives of a man.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline Lisa

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2007, 10:29:35 AM »
I don't know that much about Mormonism,  but from what I have read, the mainstream Mormons have outlawed polygamy for quite some time now.  I have also worked with people who grew up Mormon.  They tell me that their mainstream churches are very big on charity, storing lots and lots of grain for emergencies. 

Basically, the impression I have gotten from my old co workers is that they are a law abiding, conservative, hard working group of people. 

Now regarding polygamy in the Bible, Genesis says a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his *wife* (not wives).  I agree with the other ladies here that there may have been reasons for this practice back then.  Then again, I think it caused quite a few dysfunctional families in the Bible.  Here are some examples:

Look at Isaac/Ishmael. 

Then there are Jacob, Leah and Rachel's kids fighting it out, and selling their brother into slavery.  Also, Jacob's son Reuben went and slept with one of his father's concubines (either Bilah or Zilpah -- I don't remember which)

Another example is the fighting that went on among Kind David's children, where one of the sons tried to rape one of the daughters, and where another son went and had sex with all those concubines on the roof. 

So I say, the whole practice causes problems, and the later rabbis outlawed it for a reason. 

Offline mord

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2007, 10:34:29 AM »
I think in the past the reason for polygamy was that women did'nt work so they needed someone to support them,so if a women had no husband or was a widow a man married her as a good dead
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Shlomo

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2007, 11:02:27 AM »
I would like to clarify. lol

I do not believe this current generation is able to be successful with polygamy and the Rabbis have ruled against it for many wise reasons (which makes it wrong in this day and age)... but I do not believe that the giants in the Torah did wrong with this.

Back in that time, there weren't as many men because lot of men died (war, defense, wild animals, etc.) and women were treated horribly and could not always survive on their own. Also, the women needed help because they didn't have washing machines, ovens, microwaves, electricity, etc and they usually had to care for the family while the men took care of fields, building, etc so that they could just survive and stay alive. It made more sense AT THAT TIME and it was a much different time.

I just wanted to defend the amazing people of the Bible. Furthermore, I would not wish polygamy on anyone! lol
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2007, 11:12:34 AM »
polygamy?  Come on... We are a civilized people who should not even bother considering it.  One man for one woman and vice versa. It makes more sense in this time and it is better for kids.

When one man shares his heart with one woman and vice versa it has to be so much better than fornicating with 50 woman all at once if a man could.  The heart is where it's at, people.

Therefore, most people who are polygamists are misguided and shoudl either be ignored or rebuked severely for their actions.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2007, 11:14:54 AM »
I would like to clarify. lol

I do not believe this current generation is able to be successful with polygamy and the Rabbis have ruled against it for many wise reasons (which makes it wrong in this day and age)... but I do not believe that the giants in the Torah did wrong with this.

Back in that time, there weren't as many men because lot of men died (war, defense, wild animals, etc.) and women were treated horribly and could not always survive on their own. Also, the women needed help because they didn't have washing machines, ovens, microwaves, electricity, etc and they usually had to care for the family while the men took care of fields, building, etc so that they could just survive and stay alive. It made more sense AT THAT TIME and it was a much different time.

I just wanted to defend the amazing people of the Bible. Furthermore, I would not wish polygamy on anyone! lol


100% true...Amen.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Polygamy
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2007, 11:29:45 AM »
Quote from: jeffguy link=topic=7387.msg64144#msg64144 date=
I would like to clarify. lol

I do not believe this current generation is able to be successful with polygamy and the Rabbis have ruled against it for many wise reasons (which makes it wrong in this day and age)... but I do not believe that the giants in the Torah did wrong with this.

Back in that time, there weren't as many men because lot of men died (war, defense, wild animals, etc.) and women were treated horribly and could not always survive on their own. Also, the women needed help because they didn't have washing machines, ovens, microwaves, electricity, etc and they usually had to care for the family while the men took care of fields, building, etc so that they could just survive and stay alive. It made more sense AT THAT TIME and it was a much different time.

I just wanted to defend the amazing people of the Bible. Furthermore, I would not wish polygamy on anyone! lol

Also, back then a man with 10 children might lose 25-30% to accident or disease leaving him with 7.  If half were male (let's say 4), there was a good chance some or all would die in battle.  In the worst case scenario a man with 10 children could be left with 3 girls.  With one wife, it would take nearly 10 years to have 10 children.  With 2 wives, it would take 5 years.  With 5 wives, it would take 2 years.

Having said that, I do not believe that polygamy is necessary or desirable today.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
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