Fatah: 'Two-State Solution Is Dead, Time for Armed Conflict'

[Irish Zionist]

A shame The Jewish People didn't make that statement.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180097#.U2DR61cVCYQ

[ChabadKahanist]

Is anybody surprised?

[angryChineseKahanist]

Never heard of this camel "Tawfiq Tirawi".

[Manch]

In response, Israel has yielded to ayrabs and delivered remains of 3 suicide bombers to PA to be reburied there. Among them, a beast who perpetrated the Sbarro massacre. This happened last night. When this madness stops?

[Every Jew AK47]

This is why I don't make aliyah..  Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists.   The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.

I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance.  The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc ..  The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc. 

The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern.  Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers.   Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all.  Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers.  It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country.  The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.

[angryChineseKahanist]

This is why I don't make aliyah..  Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists.   The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.

I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance.  The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc ..  The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc. 

The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern.  Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers.   Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all.  Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers.  It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country.  The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.

....actually, that's precisely the reason you SHOULD return to your ancestral home land.
If you don't, they will outnumber el yahud.

[Every Jew AK47]

....actually, that's precisely the reason you SHOULD return to your ancestral home land.
If you don't, they will outnumber el yahud.

I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior?   What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?

If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.

Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters.  Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA.  Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living.   The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive.   However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families.  It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel.  Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers.  Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel.  If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective.    THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York.  Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.

Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being.   When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon.   If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.   

Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad..   If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.

The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots.   If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble.   Sadly, its the other way around.

[ChabadKahanist]

Russian Goyim are more wanted here than real Jews.

[muman613]

Let's just give up... I cannot believe what I am reading here...

[angryChineseKahanist]

I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior?   What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?

If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.

Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters.  Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA.  Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living.   The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive.   However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families.  It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel.  Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers.  Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel.  If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective.    THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York.  Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.

Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being.   When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon.   If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.   

Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad..   If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.

The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots.   If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble.   Sadly, its the other way around.

I see a few problems here.

* Try telling Chaim not to bother moving to Israel
* You want to have large families here hoping their children will move to Israel instead of being comfortable. Is this realistic?
* The promised land is full of evil people and lazy people. So you refuse to move there. You want to stay in America and be comfortable.
* You don't like the way they would treat you. You think there's no difference between there and being on the nazi train.

[muman613]

I understand the sentiment completely. The news is full of bad news for the Jewish state and at times it seems hopeless. We read about righteous Jews being evicted from their homes, their homes destroyed by the so-called Jewish state, and the arabs are running around desecrating our Holy places.... I am so angry when I think of the way it is...

But we must always look forward to making the move to Israel. We must always think about where we will live, learn Hebrew to prepare to make Aliyah, and work to remove the evil leftists who are assisting the destroyers of our heritage.

I will not give up (even though at times I feel like giving up)...

[muman613]

Talmud Mesechet Berachot 10a implores us to never give up, even when the blade of a sword is against our throat:

http://halakhah.com/berakoth/berakoth_10.html

R. Hamnuna said: What is the meaning of the verse, Who is as the wise man? And who knoweth the interpretation [pesher] of a thing?30  Who is like the Holy One, blessed be He, who knew how to effect a reconciliation [pesharah] between two righteous men, Hezekiah and Isaiah? Hezekiah said: Let Isaiah come to me, for so we find that Elijah went to Ahab,31  as it says, And Elijah went to show himself unto Ahab.32  Isaiah said: Let Hezekiah come to me, for so we find that Jehoram son of Ahab went to Elisha.33  What did the Holy One, blessed be He, do? He brought sufferings upon Hezekiah and then said to Isaiah, Go visit the sick. For so it says, In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet, son of Amoz, came to him and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thy house in order, for thou shalt die and not live34  etc. What is the meaning of 'thou shalt die and not live'? Thou shalt die in this world and not live in the world to come. He said to him: Why so bad? He replied: Because you did not try to have children. He said: The reason was because I saw by the holy spirit that the children issuing from me would not be virtuous. He said to him: What have you to do with the secrets of the All-Merciful? You should have done what you were commanded, and let the Holy One, blessed be He, do that which pleases Him. He said to him: Then give me now your daughter; perhaps through your merit and mine combined virtuous children will issue from me. He replied:35  The doom has already been decreed. Said the other: Son of Amoz, finish your prophecy and go. This tradition I have from the house of my ancestor:36  Even if a sharp sword rests upon a man's neck he should not desist from prayer.37  This saying is also recorded in the names of R. Johanan and R. Eleazar: Even if a sharp sword rests on a man's neck, he should not desist from prayer, as it says, Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.38

[Every Jew AK47]

I see a few problems here.

* Try telling Chaim not to bother moving to Israel
* You want to have large families here hoping their children will move to Israel instead of being comfortable. Is this realistic?
* The promised land is full of evil people and lazy people. So you refuse to move there. You want to stay in America and be comfortable.
* You don't like the way they would treat you. You think there's no difference between there and being on the nazi train.

I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here.  I am glad MUman can understand ..

1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel..  Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened.  Every Jew knows Israel is their home..  If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem.  I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in  New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries??  There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel..  But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families.   And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I  am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do.   Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison.    And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews?  A nation where we are free??   With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s.   When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps..  That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.

[Irish Zionist]

I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here.  I am glad MUman can understand ..

1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel..  Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened.  Every Jew knows Israel is their home..  If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem.  I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in  New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries??  There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel..  But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families.   And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I  am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do.   Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison.    And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews?  A nation where we are free??   With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s.   When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps..  That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.

1 day (I don't know when but feel it's near) you are going to WISH you moved to Israel while you still had a chance.

[Every Jew AK47]

1 day (I don't know when but feel it's near) you are going to WISH you moved to Israel while you still had a chance.

Or, maybe I will be glad that I didn't go to Israel if the place erupts into flame from a self-destructive and anti-Jewish government?   Do you not think Israel can be destroyed from within??  How about reading my earlier posts.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here.  I am glad MUman can understand ..

1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel..  Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened.  Every Jew knows Israel is their home..  If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem.  I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in  New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries??  There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel..  But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families.   And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I  am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do.   Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison.    And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews?  A nation where we are free??   With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s.   When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps..  That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.

Well, ok. Have you tried to at least visit from time to time? At least go there and try to make a difference even if its for a week or a few days.

[kyel]

I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior?   What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?

If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.

Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters.  Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA.  Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living.   The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive.   However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families.  It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel.  Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers.  Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel.  If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective.    THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York.  Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.

Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being.   When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon.   If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.   

Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad..   If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.

The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots.   If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble.   Sadly, its the other way around.

The next generation of Orthodox Jews will be 2 million with 14+ million being "half-jews" two million being reform and other combinations of halakhic quarter Jews and 1/8 jews that are already present here. The best place to remain Jewish would be in Israel where it is convenient and not as expensive to be Jewish. I mean meat here is 5-6 times the price if it's Kosher, Jewish schools are ridiculously priced. Honestly, I bet a big reason that we see so much assimilation is because only upper-middle class and upper class Jews can afford to live a Jewish life. There are 500,000 Jews who are living near the poverty level in the U.S. and the ridiculous high price to live a Jewish lifestyle and increasing taxes and the recession already pushes the assimilating Jewish population even further into complete assimilation

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This is why I don't make aliyah..  Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists.   The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.

I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance.  The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc ..  The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc. 

The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern.  Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers.   Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all.  Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers.  It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country.  The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.

On the other hand, all of this was true already in Rabbi Kahane's day, and he advised all Jews to make aliyah.

[Debbie Shafer]

Of course its dead....Because these Radicals never wanted a solution...they just wanted a war to kill Jews, if the Jews were willing to move out of their land and appease their enemies, the muslims would have been rejoicing all the more. 

[Every Jew AK47]

The next generation of Orthodox Jews will be 2 million with 14+ million being "half-jews" two million being reform and other combinations of halakhic quarter Jews and 1/8 jews that are already present here. The best place to remain Jewish would be in Israel where it is convenient and not as expensive to be Jewish. I mean meat here is 5-6 times the price if it's Kosher, Jewish schools are ridiculously priced. Honestly, I bet a big reason that we see so much assimilation is because only upper-middle class and upper class Jews can afford to live a Jewish life. There are 500,000 Jews who are living near the poverty level in the U.S. and the ridiculous high price to live a Jewish lifestyle and increasing taxes and the recession already pushes the assimilating Jewish population even further into complete assimilation

Actually, if you consider that wages are lower in Israel, cost of living and taxes are higher, the fact that you may pay a little more for kosher meat is irrelevant.  Also, I find it hard to believe that Kosher meat is cheaper in Israel, because a lot of meat in Israel is imported, whereas in the USA it is locally sourced.  I had a friend from Poland and she says she was living very comfortably in Poland with her own house and car, but now that she lives in Jerusalem she works two jobs, like 10+ hours a day ,six days a week and is barely making it and has to share a small flat.  She says she constantly thinks about going back to Poland, but came to Israel because she desired it so much in heart..   She also is infuriated by the fact JEws are treated like 2nd class citizens in Jerusalem and Arabs have more rights.  She says there is many areas of the city she is not allowed to go unless she can prove she is of Arab origin.   Last I check, Jerusalem was a Jewish city, so why are Jews restricted to be anywhere in the city? ? ?


I'm not trying to convince people to not make Aliyah.. If you make Aliyah more power to you!  What I am saying is, don't give up your US Passport.  There is advantages of having citizenship for both countries..  I hate to say it, but Israel's freedom, liberty and society is in jeopardy and trying to save the country from the inside I am sadly thinking may prove futile.   The fact that a majority of the Jewish population is disarmed and a corrupt, anti-Jewish government rules the country makes me hardly think of it as a Zionist state, but rather as a Puppet government for the EU and Arab League.

It's true that it costs a lot to live as a Jew, send your kids to Jewish school, etc etc..  However, if survival is of the most importance, we don't have to send our kids to great Jewish schools or eat the fanciest kosher meats or have $10,000 Bar Mitzvah parties at our $5,000,000 synagogues in the nicest neighborhoods in our cities.  Living in the mountains of the USA actually is not that expensive and we can raise our own cattle, our own food and own enough weapons to protect our families and homes and train ourselves with them.   We don't have to force our daughters to join the military and cheat them of those important years where they could focus on preparing for motherhood to raise a future Jewish generation.. Too many Israeli girls are exhausted after serving in the military and instead spend their time travelling, partying or pursuing a career than having children.  Israel's dangerously low birthrate among non-Orthodox Jews will prove this point.

Also, considering the amount of half Jews , 1/4 Jews, Russian, African, Arab immigrants in Israel, to say that all Jews in Israel are "whole" Jews, if I can use that term can also be misleading.

[muman613]

Im sorry for you EveryJewa44...

I will never give up on Israel. I cannot move there now, but I always keep an eye out for Job opportunities in my field (High tech computer) in Israel (and there are many good paying jobs in my field)... I also periodically look at property prices in Israel (particularly in northern Israel, like Tzfat)...

I am sure that if I make the move I will be able to support myself and my family.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It's true that it costs a lot to live as a Jew, send your kids to Jewish school, etc etc..  However, if survival is of the most importance, we don't have to send our kids to great Jewish schools or

Huh?   What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school?   Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival.  There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy.  The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it.  They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make.  But pay you will.  It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck).   You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival.   Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat.  Period.   We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs.  Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america.  It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.   

There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there. 

[ChabadKahanist]

Huh?   What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school?   Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival.  There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy.  The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it.  They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make.  But pay you will.  It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck).   You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival.   Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat.  Period.   We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs.  Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america.  It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.   

There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there.

Kosher meat isn't any cheaper here in Israel,however you can get your children educated for free here as most religious schools are state funded.

[Every Jew AK47]

Huh?   What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school?

The parent who is being hunted in the woods or the one who was thrown out of his home and had it given to Arabs.

  Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival.

So are Jewish people..  If we keep getting exterminated, those Jewish schools will be quite empty.

  There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy.  The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it.  They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make.  But pay you will.  It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck).

If Jews would stop being subjects to bureaucracy, which we seem to be great at.. Look at Israel with its bloated bureaucratic government and multitude of parties..  That's an example of how Jews spend too much time relying on organization rather than on one another.. IF we are a community like you say, we should help each other and we can definitely do that here in USA..    As Israel's Islamic population is increasing, soon Jewish schools will be getting more expensive and Islamic schools cheaper..    Remember, Israel has one of the highest Muslim popluations, per capita in the world.      If Jews would come together and move to cheaper places like Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and pull their funds together to build a school.   As a matter of fact, many Orthodox Jews not have thriving communities in places like Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City where living expenses are much less and cost of education/cost of living is much more affordable than in places like New York, which is the most expensive and overtaxed state in the entire US.

How did my relatives in Belarus who were very poor manage to operate a Hebrew school?  My great grandfather Efraim was a poor farmer, yet received a very good education in his shtetl.. Somehow, JEws in a modern wealthy country have no means to educate their young, because they must adhere to all standards and have their children pay for schools that are overpriced, because the schools are located in very expensive areas and have had too much money invested in things that may not be necessity, like state of the art facilities , fancy event halls , marble floors and other types of facilities/decor that are not of a necessity of a Jewish education.  COlleges, schools , in general tend to waste a lot of money on unnecessary expenditures that don't benefit their students educations.

   You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival.

yeah you can Just live in the mountains and people have been doing it for 1000s of years, including me.  Community is only important if your community is not threatened with extinction.

   Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat.  Period.   We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs.  Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america.  It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.   

Insulting?? Ha..  I guess I should apologize..  But, in fact, you can buy cheap kosher meat in this country, many Jews i know only will buy good quality meat..  That doesn't mean there isn't Jews eating cheap Kosher meat..  I actually think you can probably get cheaper Kosher meat in USA than in Israel..   That was my original point, but if you think meat is more expensive here, it's probably because of the type of meat you are buying..   There is so much cattle in this country and there are many Kosher organizations in USA that slaughter and certify the meat.  Jews also are not the only people who eat Kosher meat in USA.

There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there.

Who says I will never move to Israel??? Should I burn my American passport and renounce my citizenship?

Im sorry for you EveryJewa44...

I will never give up on Israel. I cannot move there now, but I always keep an eye out for Job opportunities in my field (High tech computer) in Israel (and there are many good paying jobs in my field)... I also periodically look at property prices in Israel (particularly in northern Israel, like Tzfat)...

I am sure that if I make the move I will be able to support myself and my family.

Don't put words in my mouth Muman..   Muman, are you in USA???  BTW.. DOn't say I have given  up on Israel...  Especially, coming from a guy who lives comfortably in his home in California..   I have not given up on Israel...  The fact any of you here live in USA means you are not so faithful in Israel.. If you are all such good Jews why are you not in Israel???  Would you starve? 

Looking for jobs???  Are you telling me with your credentials and experience you cannot get some type of job to make a living in Israel?? BS!  YOu are satisfied  with your lifestyle here, more than you would be in Israel or else I am thinking you would be there..  There is people who make much less money than you and have much worse jobs than you can get who live in Israel.. 

[muman613]

EJA44,

I am not putting words in your mouth. You have been speaking Lashon Hara against Israel in this thread as bad or worse than the 10 Spies in the desert.

I have said many times I am not in Israel now, and I have pointed out that I need to be able to take care of my parents. My parents (my mother and step-father) are getting old and they do not want to make the trip to Israel. I understand where they are coming from, and with my step-dad suffering with cancer currently I cannot confront them nor force them. He needs the care from the good doctors he has currently.

I know there are good jobs for me in Israel, I receive almost daily a list of companies hiring in my field. So I have the plan to make aliyah when the time is appropriate.

I will not sit around and lament how bad things are there. I know how bad they are, and I pray daily that things will be better when I get there. I will not point out every blemish and hardship to live there, I am of the opinion that our entire life is a life of hardship. We all suffer one way or another (physically, mentally, emotionally)... And I am prepared to suffer in Israel.

Yes, I do live comfortably here in California. I do work hard and invest a lot of time and effort in my profession. And it is because of my natural ability in computer programming that I am able to live this way. Baruch Hashem, may we all utilize our skills to maximize our income.

I am not knocking you, I am not really saying what you said is not true... I am just disappointed to see a good Jew saying these kinds of things especially here.