Americans Fought and Died to make Iraq an Islamic state

[Manch]

Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth and ask stupid rhetorical question s
 You claimed that Israel should be involved. That is crazy. Besides maybe just maybe supporting the Kurds their is no reason whatsoever to help anyone else.
 If they can they will go to fight Israel and they will have an easier way once Syria Jordan and others fall. If Iran is too strong for them they will just slide westqard instead.

Agreed! Israel should stay the hell out!

[muman613]

No matter what the expansion of islam in the region bodes evil for the future of Israel.

I do not believe they will destroy each other, eventually their destruction will come the way of Israel.

We must do something to protect our future. What that is will be determined, but I don't think we can just ignore the problem and hope  they will kill each other.

[syyuge]

They should be made to annihilate each other as much as possible. Then the remnants of them can be tackled and easily obliterated in some simpler manners.

[muman613]

They should be made to annihilate each other as much as possible. Then the remnants of them can be tackled and easily obliterated in some simpler manners.

Who will be left? The most barbaric and deadly ones...

We must keep our eyes open to what is going on around us. I have no problem with evil people killing each other but I do worry about the innocent ones (and the lesser guilty ones) suffering in the process. Of course we have the maxim that even righteous people who live among wicked people will share the fate of the wicked ones, but even so I take the lesson of Abraham our father to heart, that we should be concerned for those who have a hope of turning away from evil...

I am not suggesting in my comments that America send any more troops to fight this battle. But America and Israel should be vigilant.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

 I think I heard that ISIS has about 800 or 900 members in Iraq VS. 25,000 Iraqi troops that just fled!
 Could this possibly be an attempt by Iraq (gov.) to get even MORE U.S. aid? Or a reason and excuse for Iran to start marching Westward.

[syyuge]

Who will be left? The most barbaric and deadly ones...

We must keep our eyes open to what is going on around us. I have no problem with evil people killing each other but I do worry about the innocent ones (and the lesser guilty ones) suffering in the process. Of course we have the maxim that even righteous people who live among wicked people will share the fate of the wicked ones, but even so I take the lesson of Abraham our father to heart, that we should be concerned for those who have a hope of turning away from evil...

I am not suggesting in my comments that America send any more troops to fight this battle. But America and Israel should be vigilant.

Vigilance is OK, but none of the muslamics is going to be turning away from the evil..

[muman613]

Vigilance is OK, but none of the muslamics is going to be turning away from the evil..

As I said, the evil can perish... But the innocent should be spared.

Remember that non-muslims have lived peacefully in Iraq for hundreds of years. My good friend's father grew up in Iraq (he and his father were righteous Jews). Iraq has had a Jewish population which has shrunk since 1948 but there still may be 100s of them there. So too there are Iraqi Christians and seculars... They all will be harmed by the increase in terrorist violence.

[muman613]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_jews

The Jews in Iraq (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים בָּבְלִים, Babylonian Jews, Yehudim Bavlim, Arabic: يهود العراق‎ Yahūd al-ʿIrāq) is documented from the time of the Babylonian captivity c. 586 BC. Iraqi Jews constitute one of the world's oldest and most historically significant Jewish communities.

The Jewish community of Babylon included Ezra the scribe, whose return to Judea in the late 6th century BC is associated with significant changes in Jewish ritual observance and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. The Talmud was compiled in Babylonia, identified with modern Iraq.[2]

From the Babylonian period to the rise of the Islamic caliphate, the Jewish community of Babylon thrived as the center of Jewish learning. The Mongol invasion and Islamic discrimination in the Middle Ages led to its decline.[3] Under the Ottoman Empire, the Jews of Iraq fared better. The community established modern schools in the second-half of the 19th century.[4]

In the 20th century, Iraqi Jews played an important role in the early days of Iraq's independence. The Iraqi Jewish community decreased drastically after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. By 1952, 120,000 of the community (around 75%) had left for Israel.[5]

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Present estimates of the Jewish population in Baghdad are seven[39] or eight.[40] Among the American forces stationed in Iraq, there were only three Jewish chaplains.[41]

It seems that today there are only 7-8 Jews left in Iraq.... Let the terrorists kill each other...

[Every Jew AK47]

I think I heard that ISIS has about 800 or 900 members in Iraq VS. 25,000 Iraqi troops that just fled!
 Could this possibly be an attempt by Iraq (gov.) to get even MORE U.S. aid? Or a reason and excuse for Iran to start marching Westward.

800 and 900 if you are not counting the tens of thousands of Iraqi Sunnis and their enraged clerics who are supporting the militants against the enemy Shia army who currently rules over Iraq.  Their conquests obviously couldn't happen without the support of some external entity.  However, I cannot just call this a false flag operation, especially not at this scale.   There has been infighting, tribal hatred, Sunni vs Shia animosity for generations.  Each side hated each other so much, they committed "war crimes", shooting rockets with chemical warheads into civilian areas killing thousands of people in each strike.   I don't think anyone would argue that the Iran-Iraq War was a fabricated war or simply a ploy to expand the dominion of one government.  After all, every Islamist power yearns for conquest and to expand its territory.  Obviously, the Sunnis want to gain control of the Shia controlled areas and the Shias want to gain control of the Sunni dominated areas.   

I think the fact that the US supported a pro-Iranian/Shia leader as the head of Iraq was the greatest mistake they could have made.  Then again, I think there is nothing better for Israel then for the arch-foes Iraq Sunnis and Iranian Shias to go to war. 

When Hamas and Fatah go to war things generally are pretty quiet in Israel. 

Also, I cannot see how Syria being taken over by Sunni militants is any worse than the Iranian proxy leader Bashir Assad and the militant Hizbullah Shias who control most of Lebanon.   Exchange one hostile entity for another.  Israel is a nuclear armed nation with the most powerful military in the Middle East.  These militants will be hard pressed to try to conquer Israel.  Syria is already a basket case with a pro-Iranian dictator.  I say better to even the score and help promote two arch rival factions, Sunni and Shia who will drain each other's resources fighting each other, as they have done in the past.

The First Iran-Iraq War set both nations back decades and is probably the only reason today that Iran is not a more powerful nuclear armed nation.

P.S.
In no way do I think Israel should get directly involved in this conflict.  They should do what they did in the First Iran-Iraq War, indirectly support each side to help destroy the other.  Providing  weapons , funding, intelligence, etc does not pull Israel into the fray, especially since both of sides already consider Israel an enemy.   Many don't realize Israel supplied Iran with arms in the first Iran-Iraq War, while the US supplied Iraq with weapons.

[muman613]

Again I strongly disagree with EJA44 on this...

Either do nothing or do something... Arming one or the other in the hopes that they will destroy themselves has proven again and again to be a foolish strategy. In the end the weapons and training given to them will be used against us. In my lifetime I have witnessed this again and again. Al Queda was supposed to be our ally against Soviet Union, and in the end they attacked America. In Iraq we fought and supplied Iraqi forces with training and weapons which are now going to be used against us. In Libya we were supplying supposed allies to overthrow the Quadaffi administration and in the end those weapons were used against Americans.

If we do something we must totally devastate the enemy so that he fears to rise again against us.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

America has to get rid of it's sellout administration be for we do anything. The left has our military fighting with their hands tied behide their back, along with some sabotage. After that then America and Israel should go in full force and hit both sides... No mercy, and make an example out of them, and show the World we're not [censored] around anymore, and we are done playing games. Make them wish they they never heard Mofagmed, and show the left, this is how it's done. If the left don't like it, they can go live in the glass desert  we just made for them! We will even give them a free ride.

[Every Jew AK47]

America has to get rid of it's sellout administration be for we do anything. The left has our military fighting with their hands tied behide their back, along with some sabotage. After that then America and Israel should go in full force and hit both sides... No mercy, and make an example out of them, and show the World we're not [censored] around anymore, and we are done playing games. Make them wish they they never heard Mofagmed, and show the left, this is how it's done. If the left don't like it, they can go live in the glass desert  we just made for them! We will even give them a free ride.

Efraim, in a perfect world what you said would be the absolute best action for us to take.. Sadly, we live in a world far from perfect and I think the best solution for a country that is as hated and despised as Israel, as well as the USA, which is also hated and despised , is to fight a proxy war, where they use rival Islamic factions to attack one another.  When Muslims do the killing, there is no UN inspectors, anti-Israel news media, world outcry or war crimes tribunals.   Netanyahu will not get a subpoena to show up at The Hague to defend his actions, etc , etc.   The Muslims are barbaric, blood-thirsty , warmongering beasts by virtue and they hate each other as much as they hate everyone else.  Many people do not realize that Muslims have been killing more of one another for centuries (especially the last century) than anybody else.      I do believe the Sunnis and Shias hate each other more than they hate Israel.  The Israelis have never purposely destroyed a Sunni or Shia shrine or holy site and both the Sunnis and Shias know it.  Both the Sunnis and Shias know that they hate each other and want to destroy each others religion. 

I think many underestimate the deep rooted hatred Sunnis and Shias have for one another and how either side would jump on an opportunity to obliterate the other.    With Iran under attack by the Sunnis, it know longer can spend its resources on developing a nuclear arsenal, but would have to sacrifice everything to

Essentially, the Sunnis are doing what Israel should have done a long time ago, but will not face the repercussions from Mother Europe and the Arab League that Israel would if it launched such an invasion.

I say LET EM FIGHT.. KEEP EM FIGHTING.. IF THEY UNITE, THEN KILL EM ALL..   They have never united and have always hated each other, so I really doubt that will happen.   Uniting together to conquer Israel, which they know would be a suicidal feat, when they can conquer one another would be irrational.   Also, they enjoy fighting.. If they attack Israel, it may mean sudden death.. They know a war among each other will be a conventional war..   Neither is nuclear armed, yet!

I'm out.. Shabbat Shalom

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

^I agree with a lot of what you said.... but they will join to destroy us!

Would you give one blood thirsty gang money to help defeat another gang. That money will help kill innocent people? That blood would be on you too!


http://pamelageller.com/2014/06/savage-al-qaeda-group-isis-claims-responsibility-presumed-kidnapping-israeli-teens.html/

[syyuge]

If we do something we must totally devastate the enemy so that he fears to rise again against us.

Precisely, what this is supposed to mean.

[syyuge]

The worst mistake has been already made and Iraq was invaded in place of Pakistan666. So the rest of the consequences follow accordingly.

[Every Jew AK47]

Looks like the US and Iran may partner up to fight the Sunni insurgency in Iraq...

I know you guys may not agree with me, but I am cheering for ISIS!

Whoever, thinks that the Sunni militants will defeat the Shias and then suddenly be a superpower that becomes nuclear and destroys Israel, is really exaggerating.  It is like North Korea suddenly emerging as the new SuperPower of the world.  Belligerent extremists may succed at capturing a certain area, but they will be hard pressed to rule the world, especially against a formidable foe, like Israel or any nuclear-armed country.   Even North Korea has more backbone than them.  The reason they are gaining so much ground is they are leading rebellions among the more oppressed Sunni populations in countries that are ruled by Shia factions, where Shia's are not a great majority.  Syria and Iraq both fall in this category.

I rather have a country run by Sunni fanatics than SHia fanatics.. The Sunnis always end up self-destructing with their insanity and sooner or later being overrun by a pro-Western military dictator.  Just look what happened in Egypt when the Islamists took control and then were instantly booted out to make way for a pro-Western military government.  The Shias always have been unified as a single people, serving one leader and have a unified vision and a shared sense of animosity for the US , Israel and Western world.  Unlike Sunnis, Shias swear their loyalty to their leaders and have a view of racial superiority and believe in divine revelations, such as the Persian Messiah (Mahdi) to come rescue the Persian nation as it makes wars with all its enemies.

When Iran gets the nuclear bomb, every Sunni country will strive to get the nuclear bomb and this could spell a much greater disaster for Israel.

I'm too tired to get into it now, but I think its Israels best interest to do all in its power to seek the destruction of Iran and its power..  Even if that means arming and helping Al Qaeda!!  Yes, even Al Qaeda!  Al Qaeda is fanatical, backwards, strong-headed and crazy..  However, one thing that always seems to unite Sunnis more than anything else is fighting the Shias..   The Sunnis have hated the Shias for ages.. They have killed more each other's children than any other people.

I really don't think people see the big picture here.  This is not some group of super ninja islamic fighters who rose from the ashes and are kicking everyone's butt.  This is just a group of Islamic zealots who are leading a Civil War in Iraq between the Sunni and Shia.  Why do you think Iran now wants to join the USA to subdue this uprising??  The Shia fear a powerful militant Sunni government next to them like the plague.

Also, the Kurds may gain their own country out of this whole mess, which would also work in Israel's favor , as the Kurds have been more pro-Israel than either of these fanatical factions.

[syyuge]

Looks like the US and Iran may partner up to fight the Sunni insurgency in Iraq...

I know you guys may not agree with me, but I am cheering for ISIS!

Whoever, thinks that the Sunni militants will defeat the Shias and then suddenly be a superpower that becomes nuclear and destroys Israel, is really exaggerating.  It is like North Korea suddenly emerging as the new SuperPower of the world.  Belligerent extremists may succed at capturing a certain area, but they will be hard pressed to rule the world, especially against a formidable foe, like Israel or any nuclear-armed country.   Even North Korea has more backbone than them.  The reason they are gaining so much ground is they are leading rebellions among the more oppressed Sunni populations in countries that are ruled by Shia factions, where Shia's are not a great majority.  Syria and Iraq both fall in this category.

I rather have a country run by Sunni fanatics than SHia fanatics.. The Sunnis always end up self-destructing with their insanity and sooner or later being overrun by a pro-Western military dictator.  Just look what happened in Egypt when the Islamists took control and then were instantly booted out to make way for a pro-Western military government.  The Shias always have been unified as a single people, serving one leader and have a unified vision and a shared sense of animosity for the US , Israel and Western world.  Unlike Sunnis, Shias swear their loyalty to their leaders and have a view of racial superiority and believe in divine revelations, such as the Persian Messiah (Mahdi) to come rescue the Persian nation as it makes wars with all its enemies.

When Iran gets the nuclear bomb, every Sunni country will strive to get the nuclear bomb and this could spell a much greater disaster for Israel.

I'm too tired to get into it now, but I think its Israels best interest to do all in its power to seek the destruction of Iran and its power..  Even if that means arming and helping Al Qaeda!!  Yes, even Al Qaeda!  Al Qaeda is fanatical, backwards, strong-headed and crazy..  However, one thing that always seems to unite Sunnis more than anything else is fighting the Shias..   The Sunnis have hated the Shias for ages.. They have killed more each other's children than any other people.

I really don't think people see the big picture here.  This is not some group of super ninja islamic fighters who rose from the ashes and are kicking everyone's butt.  This is just a group of Islamic zealots who are leading a Civil War in Iraq between the Sunni and Shia.  Why do you think Iran now wants to join the USA to subdue this uprising??  The Shia fear a powerful militant Sunni government next to them like the plague.

Also, the Kurds may gain their own country out of this whole mess, which would also work in Israel's favor , as the Kurds have been more pro-Israel than either of these fanatical factions.

Nothing wrong with these opinions. I too agree with the Kurdish point.

[muman613]

Al Queda should never be bargained with. All these Islamic Jihad groups hate America and Israel, and any thing which we give to them will be used against us.

What I mean by 'totally devastate the enemy' should be crystal clear. It means that we eliminate the faction which is threatening us. Either Israel or America has the power to fight a war in which we truly win, and do not allow the enemy to crawl under rocks and caves and live to fight another day.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Looks like the US and Iran may partner up to fight the Sunni insurgency in Iraq...

I know you guys may not agree with me, but I am cheering for ISIS!

I'm too tired to get into it now, but I think its Israels best interest to do all in its power to seek the destruction of Iran and its power..  Even if that means arming and helping Al Qaeda!!  Yes, even Al Qaeda!  Al Qaeda is fanatical, backwards, strong-headed and crazy..  However, one thing that always seems to unite Sunnis more than anything else is fighting the Shias..   The Sunnis have hated the Shias for ages.. They have killed more each other's children than any other people.

I really don't think people see the big picture here.  This is not some group of super ninja islamic fighters who rose from the ashes and are kicking everyone's butt.  This is just a group of Islamic zealots who are leading a Civil War in Iraq between the Sunni and Shia.  Why do you think Iran now wants to join the USA to subdue this uprising??  The Shia fear a powerful militant Sunni government next to them like the plague.

Also, the Kurds may gain their own country out of this whole mess, which would also work in Israel's favor , as the Kurds have been more pro-Israel than either of these fanatical factions.

That is ridiculous! Did you not hear ISIS is taking credit for the 3 Israeli and American kids that were kidnapped... And you want to arm them and give them money, what the hell?

And for the Kurds having their own country. .. Most of Iraq belongs to Israel.

[Every Jew AK47]

That is ridiculous! Did you not hear ISIS is taking credit for the 3 Israeli and American kids that were kidnapped... And you want to arm them and give them money, what the hell?

And for the Kurds having their own country. .. Most of Iraq belongs to Israel.

And how many dead Israeli children will there be if Iran gives Hamas a nuclear bomb to detonate in Tel Aviv??  Do the math..

Every terrorist group takes credit for every bad thing that happens in Israel and USA..   The  3 Yeshiva children who were kidnapped were taken by the Hamas who is funded and aided by the Shias in Iran..  Iran has contributed to a good majority of the terror and attacks against Israelis that have occurred from its Gaza, Syrian and Lebanese borders..


What is ridiculous is that Israel sits on its a $$  doing nothing while Iran is becoming a powerful nuclear armed enemy who will wreck more havoc than any small terrorist group could do.     

Like I said people will write me off as naive or a nutjob for supporting ISIS/Iraqi Sunnis.   Unlike Israel, at least ISIS/Iraqi Sunnis are doing something to combat the Shias..  Yes, they may hate Israel but their fight right now is not with Israel, it is with Iran and any war against Iran will linger on for a very, very long time.  That is assuming that US doesn't ally with Iran and start a new war against the Sunni militants..

Israel's best friend right now is ISIS and the Iraqi Sunni militants...  I know I sound like I am crazy, but I do hold onto that Middle Eastern proverb, "The Enemy of my Enemy is My Friend'..  The Sunnis and Shias have never been friends and never will be.. 

The best thing Israel can do now is hope that the most dangerous, organized, fanatical, eugenicist and diabolic regime on the earth, Iran is destroyed.  Unlike the Sunni, the Shia have it in their doctrine that the destruction and conquering of all their enemies, who include both Sunnis and Jews will bring the coming of their holy Messiah, The Twelfth Imam or Madhi who will make the Shias the supreme rulers of the Earth..

Destroying Iran should be our TOP PRIORITY! Anybody who will help in the effort is our friend, whether they like it or not!

In Shia Islam "the Mahdi symbol has developed into a powerful and central religious idea."[1] Twelver Shi`i Muslims believe that the Mahdi is the son of Narjis, and is the Twelfth Imam, who was born in 869 and was hidden by God at the age of five (874). He is still alive but has been in occultation, "awaiting the time that God has decreed for his return," When it comes he promised that no one who wanted happiness would be denied and no one who had believed will be left behind.

Why would Iran authorize a major terrorist operation on American soil? Skeptics say the much-discussed “foiled” Iranian plot makes no sense. We will know soon enough if the Feds have sufficient evidence related to this specific plot. But Iranian leaders may, in fact, have a motive to accelerate direct attacks on the U.S.: Shia Islamic eschatology, or "End Times" theology.

Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are convinced that the End of Days has come. They believe the Shia messiah known as the “Twelfth Imam” or the “Mahdi” will appear soon to establish a global Islamic kingdom known as the caliphate.

What’s more, they believe the way to hasten the coming of the Twelfth Imam is to annihilate Israel (which they call the “Little Satan”), and the United States (which they call the “Great Satan”). We should not, therefore, be surprised that Iran is probing for weaknesses in American intelligence and homeland security.

Khamenei told Iranians in July 2010 that he personally met with the Twelfth Imam. He also claimed to be the personal representative of the Mahdi on earth, and said all Muslims must “obey him.” Meanwhile, Western intelligence agencies say he continues to work with Ahmadinejad and the Iranian military to develop nuclear warheads and the ballistic missiles to deliver them.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/11/07/why-irans-top-leaders-believe-that-end-days-has-come/

[Every Jew AK47]

Iran's Nazi Past... Iranians also had a very close bond with Adolf Hitler.. Even though this was the pre-Islamic Shah dynasty, the mentality of Persian people and their unification with Hitler, Aryan theology and Nazism never was truly dissolved.  The Shah was overthrown for political reason and many Shia Muslims still upheld the Aryan theology and hatred of Jews and bondship with Adolf Hitler.  This is why the Nazi salute is very common among Shia Muslims, such as Hizbollah.

Reza Shah Pahlavi, himself, was a good friend and ally with Adolf Hitler.. Hitler sent the Shah a signed autograph photo of himself, giving the Shah great praise and respect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Iran_relations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hswwp6wqys

The feeling of racial superiority coupled with the fanaticism and imperialist mindset of Persian people, make Shia Islam the most formidable and dangerous religion of the era.   Even the most religious of Shia Islamist fanatics uphold their Aryan lineage and intermix this with the deranged, totalitarian and violent Islamic religion.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I totally agree about Iran. But we should not support Al Qaeda!

[Every Jew AK47]

I totally agree about Iran. But we should not support Al Qaeda!

It's not like we are truly supporting them.. We are helping them fight Iran with the good faith that Iran will also kill plenty of them in the process...    Essentially, we are supporting them to kill one another, which will be good for Israel.     If US and Iran ally to fight the Sunnis, I think it's in Israel's best interests to support the Sunnis to even the score..    If Iran sticks its nose into this issue in any manner at all, we can already consider Iraq, a new proxy state of the Iranian empire, just as are Gaza, West Bank, Syria and Lebanon.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

^ I agree with them killing each other!

But.... If Israel supports Isis... Israel will be blamed for everything,  and it will hurt Israel in G-ds eyes. .. Isis are really sick animals, do you think the children of G-d should encourage them? I really doubt that is what HaShem would want!

[Every Jew AK47]

But.... If Israel supports Isis... Israel will be blamed for everything,  and it will hurt Israel in G-ds eyes. ..

They would blame Israel?? Tell me its not so!!      

Israel already is considered a land of child murderers, arab killers, apartheid, oppressors, etc etc..  Who cares if they blame Israel..  They will blame Israel less if the Sunnis do the killing than if the Israelis do the killing..    They blamed Israel for the massacre of Islamic terrorists in Lebanon, when the Lebanese Maronites avenged themselves and killed the Shia Hizbullah militants who previously were seeking to wipe them out completely.     

If an Arab has a toothache you can bet the Mossad is behind it somehow..

Isis are really sick animals, do you think the children of G-d should encourage them? I really doubt that is what HaShem would want!

Yeah, I really think the children of G-d should encourage the death of Iran and Shias..  I mean, I'd rather Israel go and bomb all of the Iranian cities and towns, but considering the world condemnation, better to let the Sunni savages do the dirty work.   I much rather see Sunnis and Shias killing each other, than see young Jewish boys being sent off to Iran to do the killing in a ground war..  Since Israel is bound by UN regulations and must abide by the modern conventions of war rules, indiscriminate bombing of Iran would probably never be an option and Israel would be forced to invade Iran by land and then not be allowed to hit civilian targets , allow UN to come in and send aid to the enemies , no bombing schools, hospitals, etc.   Essentially, its like fighting with one hand behind your back..  The Sunnis would have no such restrictions, since they just don't give a crap.   

Yep, Hashem cares about his people and I don't believe he has much sentiments to either the Sunnis or Shias.. The sooner they can kill each other off the better.  That's my opinion, however.