Author Topic: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible  (Read 11190 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2014, 05:16:40 PM »
In or harayon. I can tell you exact pages later if you request it. And he also explains that the canaanim dpbt all have to be killed. They are fist given choice of peace then choice to leave and then if the fight they get killed.

Wait... What you wrote does not make sense. If they are Caananite nations then there is no option to make peace... The commandments is that they must be destroyed (wherever they are found). So either they are, or they aren't... Please check the source you refer to.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5451
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2014, 05:30:50 PM »
Wait... What you wrote does not make sense. If they are Caananite nations then there is no option to make peace... The commandments is that they must be destroyed (wherever they are found). So either they are, or they aren't... Please check the source you refer to.

its not like that. read Or harayon. the sources are brought down and quoted. 1st option is peace, but in our terms. last option is war and fight all the way.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »
I do not consider him a leader of the Jewish people. I consider him a good Rabbi who is onto something good.

The overall message he conveyed is correct. There is no peace with people who want to kill us. Whether Rabbi Mizrachi thinks that peace was possible or not, to me it is irrelevant because it has been shown that there is no peace with Abbas and Fatach.

You should look at the good things which were said by the Rabbi rather than try to tear it down based on one thing you disagree with. He is not a 'leader of the Jewish people' at this time. I support what he says and think it can bring people to see that we must not accept peace with them, especially with the history we have witnessed.

Sorry, but you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.   The premise of LKZ's post was to promote this rabbi as a leader (so your comment that he is not a leader at this time as a challenge to what I said, is irrelevant).  Lkz proposed him as a Rabbi Kahane of our generation.  That's false and I stated its falsehood.   That is not "trying to tear it down" it is simply an honest response to LKZ.  Rabbi mizrahi is a big boy, he can handle someone critiquing his view, so you should strap the big boy pants on and stop demanding that I only see the good and nothing else or else keep my mouth shut.    No one is under any obligation to keep silent on falsehood.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 06:37:32 PM »
its not like that. read Or harayon. the sources are brought down and quoted. 1st option is peace, but in our terms. last option is war and fight all the way.

The commandment of destroying the Caananites has no provision for peace or allowing them to flee. I posted above the commandment as brought down by Rambam. So maybe Rabbi Kahane doesn't consider them to be Caananites?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/961561/jewish/Positive-Commandment-187.htm

http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter83.html

Quote
We are commanded to destroy the seven nations of Canaan and it is forbidden to let any Canaanite live, as it says "[But from the cities of these nations...] you shall not let any soul live; for you shall destroy them... [in order that they do not teach you to imitate all their abominations]".7 It is forbidden to forget the evil deeds of Amalek; we are commanded to remember them and to destroy all trace of him, as it says "Remember what Amalek did to you... you shall wipe out the memory of Amalek... you shall not forget".8 However, if these nations accept peace terms they are not to be killed. Before declaring war we are commanded to offer peace terms, as it says "When you approach a city to make war on it you must call out to it regarding peace".9 (We are forbidden to do this with Ammon and Moab, as it says "You shall not seek their peace or welfare"10; but if they make peace with us we accept it.) War must not be conducted destructively; for example, it is forbidden to cut down fruit trees during a siege, as it says "[If you besiege a city many days...] you shall not destroy its trees".11,d


So I am a bit confused at this stage. If Rabbi Mizrachi was wrong or right to suggest that peace may be had with them (if they are indeed counted among the seven caananite nations)...

Maybe the solution is that they are not 'Canaanite' nations but fighting them is a Milchemet Mitzvah... Hope to learn the answer after Shabbat...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 06:41:45 PM »
But he did not think it is possible or desirable to make peace with them at this time. He said 'it may have been possible' which is clearly past tense, moving forward he says that there is no possibility.
But it was never true.  NEVER.

Quote

While it may have been possible to make peace with Mazen and his partisans, Hamas’s intentions will never change and therefore


When?  When was that ever true?  It wasn't and it is misleading to suggest otherwise.
The rabbi's statement implies that up until the minute abu mazen made a coalition govt with hamas, bibi should be hard at work making "peace" with him, but no longer.     That is establishment nonsense. Oslo policy.  Death.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2014, 06:43:40 PM »
But it was never true.  NEVER.

When?  When was that ever true?  It wasn't and it is misleading to suggest otherwise.
The rabbi's statement implies that up until the minute abu mazen made a coalition govt with hamas, bibi should be hard at work making "peace" with him, but no longer.     That is establishment nonsense. Oslo policy.  Death.

Rabbi Mizrachi has stated numerous times that Oslo was a failure and we must learn from the mistakes.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5451
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2014, 06:43:57 PM »
The commandment of destroying the Caananites has no provision for peace or allowing them to flee. I posted above the commandment as brought down by Rambam. So maybe Rabbi Kahane doesn't consider them to be Caananites?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/961561/jewish/Positive-Commandment-187.htm

http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter83.html

 IT actually does. That is why their were the Gevyonim (I believe that's what they were called if Im not mistaken) who were Canannites and who even though they tricked us into a peace treaty and gave a false identity to themselves they still weren't harmed (even though technically the deal wasn't just because it was based on a lie).
 Rav Kahane quotes the Rambam. Its not a contradiction at all. Their are different options including fighting.
 I don't have the time now to go into it. Overall I highly recommend you read Rav Kahane's Sefer Or Harayon. He goes deeply into this subject (and the different opinions and the bottom line Halacha as well) and does mention the Arabs as well and their is a specific highlight stating that they have the status of the Cananites. Maybe this last point is a disagreement with the Rambam but according to Rav Kahane and the sources he brings he does make this specific point. About the other points of first giving option for peace (according to our terms) its in the Rambam as well.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2014, 06:44:40 PM »
edu, do you have a source for this? I cannot believe that Rabbi Kahane thought like this because I have heard his speeches and he said that he didn't want to kill them all, he wanted them out of Israel (far far away).

What's that have to do with peace?  They are hateful people and they will always hate unless they assimilate and forget (and then its not really peace with them but with completely different people).
Haters gonna hate.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2014, 06:45:36 PM »
IT actually does. That is why their were the Gevyonim (I believe that's what they were called if Im not mistaken) who were Canannites and who even though they tricked us into a peace treaty and gave a false identity to themselves they still weren't harmed (even though technically the deal wasn't just because it was based on a lie).
 Rav Kahane quotes the Rambam. Its not a contradiction at all. Their are different options including fighting.
 I don't have the time now to go into it. Overall I highly recommend you read Rav Kahane's Sefer Or Harayon. He goes deeply into this subject (and the different opinions and the bottom line Halacha as well) and does mention the Arabs as well and their is a specific highlight stating that they have the status of the Cananites. Maybe this last point is a disagreement with the Rambam but according to Rav Kahane and the sources he brings he does make this specific point. About the other points of first giving option for peace (according to our terms) its in the Rambam as well.

Is the Ravs Sefer available in English today?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2014, 06:53:27 PM »
The commandment of destroying the Caananites has no provision for peace or allowing them to flee. I posted above the commandment as brought down by Rambam. So maybe Rabbi Kahane doesn't consider them to be Caananites?

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/961561/jewish/Positive-Commandment-187.htm

http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha-overview/chapter83.html


So I am a bit confused at this stage. If Rabbi Mizrachi was wrong or right to suggest that peace may be had with them (if they are indeed counted among the seven caananite nations)...

Maybe the solution is that they are not 'Canaanite' nations but fighting them is a Milchemet Mitzvah... Hope to learn the answer after Shabbat...


The undeniable fact that there cannot be peace with the nazi terrorists of fatah and abu mazen has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how you classify the arabs currently living in Israel or what the Torah presents as options for dealing with cananites

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2014, 07:00:29 PM »
I'm sorry but anyone who says it is possible or worthwhile goal to make supposed peace with abu mazen is unfit as a Jewish leader.  This mindset has gotten Jews murdered maimed and injured for decades, and it is plain wrong.

He never says it's a worthwhile goal, nor did he promote it, but it's true that in order to remove all the nazis from Gaza, we have to artillery them first, while removing them from the north is easy, we just go in and say go, and that is the differentiation he was making. He's not speaking of it as a political issue that this is the right choice to make, it's just to understand how bad they are in Gaza.

I do not consider him a leader of the Jewish people. I consider him a good Rabbi who is onto something good.

The overall message he conveyed is correct. There is no peace with people who want to kill us. Whether Rabbi Mizrachi thinks that peace was possible or not, to me it is irrelevant because it has been shown that there is no peace with Abbas and Fatach.

You should look at the good things which were said by the Rabbi rather than try to tear it down based on one thing you disagree with. He is not a 'leader of the Jewish people' at this time. I support what he says and think it can bring people to see that we must not accept peace with them, especially with the history we have witnessed.

I agree with everything you say, except I would end the first sentence with yet, obviously, nobody is even able to do what Rav Kahane Z"TL did. He is willing to go against the establishment, he has shown that he can make a massive following and convince people of the truth. All he needs is to get involved with politics, and it's finished, we can make all of Israel baalei teshuva. Imagine the difference in Israel if he was the head of Shas, or had his own party and Bennet brought him to Likud instead of his fellow traitor.

That's what I want to do Tag. I want him to be the new Micheal Ben Ari, besides the new facebook, and just push for Jewish education and have a 100% kosher platform, and people will rally to him like they did with Rabbi Kahane, because "in the world of the blind, [that] one-eyed man is king", G-d willing.


The undeniable fact that there cannot be peace with the nazi terrorists of fatah and abu mazen has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how you classify the arabs currently living in Israel or what the Torah presents as options for dealing with cananites

You're right, and if you want to send him an email to clarify his position (it's clear to me, but I'm interested to see if he'd spell it out, but I'm too scared to waste his time for this question, in all the conversations we had I barely told him a few things about me or anything outside the point), use this form http://www.divineinformation.com/contact-us/ and I'm certain his position is congruent with ours.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 07:09:53 PM »
He never says it's a worthwhile goal, nor did he promote it, but it's true that in order to remove all the nazis from Gaza, we have to artillery them first, while removing them from the north is easy, we just go in and say go, and that is the differentiation he was making. He's not speaking of it as a political issue that this is the right choice to make, it's just to understand how bad they are in Gaza.


This is what you're saying.
This is not what he said in the interview.  In fact he said something contrary.  Have a good shabbos.

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2014, 03:38:16 PM »
Muman613
It appears that the english translation 2 volumes of Ohr Haraayon of Rabbi Meir Kahane is
available for sale at
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/184-0572576-2539858?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=ohr%20haraayon

In addition Muman613 you quoted before Rambam's opinion on the 7 nations of Canaan but there are other Rabbis on Rambam's level who don't see it the way he does.
See for example, Rashbam and Chizkuni to Breishit 22:1, Ramban's addition #4 to the list of Positive Commandments in Sefer Hamitzvot.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2014, 08:26:13 PM »
Like Amnon Yitzhak, Mizrahi
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Author.aspx/6260
has brought thousands back to belief in Hashem.

All though they have their good points and are not avowed Shasniks, but being Sefardim they cannot but help having partial reverence for Ovadiya Yosef ie that "Land for Peace" is at least nominally permitted for "pikuach nefesh".

This is the antithesis of Kahanism.











Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 08:53:13 PM »
Like Amnon Yitzhak, Mizrahi
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/Author.aspx/6260
has brought thousands back to belief in Hashem.

All though they have their good points and are not avowed Shasniks, but being Sefardim they cannot but help having partial reverence for Ovadiya Yosef ie that "Land for Peace" is at least nominally permitted for "pikuach nefesh".

This is the antithesis of Kahanism.

Not gonna argue for the sake of arguing, you're right in this, Y-----a.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5451
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2014, 08:53:18 PM »
Is the Ravs Sefer available in English today?


Definitely. Check amazon. English is 2 volumes.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2014, 10:39:35 PM »
The fact remains that as prime minister, if he said something on the news to the homo riot like "you want to do sins and make Hashem angry, don't show it off. Stay in your closet. Actually you should go in a closet inside a closet, just in case you were thinking about leaving the first one." would be epic. It's not like if Rav Ovadia was in power, he would have actually given land himself. Don't pretend you wouldn't kill to see him PM Y-----a.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2014, 01:20:37 AM »
The fact remains that as prime minister, if he said something on the news to the homo riot like "you want to do sins and make Hashem angry, don't show it off. Stay in your closet. Actually you should go in a closet inside a closet, just in case you were thinking about leaving the first one." would be epic. It's not like if Rav Ovadia was in power, he would have actually given land himself. Don't pretend you wouldn't kill to see him PM Y-----a.

It is imo immature thought processes which cause someone in denial to ascribe thoughts and views of their own onto someone else who actually in actual deed, written, and/or public statements supported, facilitated and defended the opposite views.    It is also a futile exercise.   Why play a game of , "but if ravv x was prime minister he might have..."  He was not prime minister, he was who he was and did whathe did.

If the idealized version of any person I could make up in my head was prime minister, they would all kick out arabs.  So what?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2014, 01:22:47 AM »
Muman613
It appears that the english translation 2 volumes of Ohr Haraayon of Rabbi Meir Kahane is
available for sale at
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/184-0572576-2539858?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=ohr%20haraayon

In addition Muman613 you quoted before Rambam's opinion on the 7 nations of Canaan but there are other Rabbis on Rambam's level who don't see it the way he does.
See for example, Rashbam and Chizkuni to Breishit 22:1, Ramban's addition #4 to the list of Positive Commandments in Sefer Hamitzvot.

However none of that matters.  A group of people hellbent on your extermination has given up any rights to peaceful engagement.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2014, 02:00:13 AM »
It is imo immature thought processes which cause someone in denial to ascribe thoughts and views of their own onto someone else who actually in actual deed, written, and/or public statements supported, facilitated and defended the opposite views.    It is also a futile exercise.   Why play a game of , "but if ravv x was prime minister he might have..."  He was not prime minister, he was who he was and did whathe did.

If the idealized version of any person I could make up in my head was prime minister, they would all kick out arabs.  So what?

The idealized prime minister in your head doesn't matter most likely.

What maybe it is is that you can't get an all-in-one Rabbi Kahane in this generation, but if you put Rabbi Mizrachi, Jews for Judaism, JTF, and some right wing guys in the knesset together in a group, you're getting close.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2014, 02:25:18 AM »
The idealized prime minister in your head doesn't matter most likely.

What maybe it is is that you can't get an all-in-one Rabbi Kahane in this generation, but if you put Rabbi Mizrachi, Jews for Judaism, JTF, and some right wing guys in the knesset together in a group, you're getting close.

You changed the subject away from you drooling about Rav Yosef Zt''L in your idealized mold which never existed in real life.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2014, 06:53:19 AM »
Or  "Death to all Muslims". That would be more accurate.

No it's not more accurate because there are non Muslims who are our enemies
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2014, 01:51:43 PM »
You changed the subject away from you drooling about Rav Yosef Zt''L in your idealized mold which never existed in real life.

What?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2014, 12:43:07 AM »
What?

You said that if Rav Yosef would have been prime minister, then magically he would have adopted the Kahanist view and transferred the arab enemy even though in his life and actual political role he never supported that and actually he actively worked against it.   Do you believe you know this from ruah hakodesh, lol?   When I called you on it, you replied with something convoluted in which you said a vague comment that the idealized prime minister in MY (kwrbt's) head doesn't matter but that you want to combine rabbi mizrahi with jtf and a few other groups.   So that is why I said you changed the subject.  Because you did. 

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: We should work with Rabbi Mizrachi HOWEVER possible
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2014, 03:40:39 AM »
You said that if Rav Yosef would have been prime minister, then magically he would have adopted the Kahanist view and transferred the arab enemy even though in his life and actual political role he never supported that and actually he actively worked against it.   Do you believe you know this from ruah hakodesh, lol?   When I called you on it, you replied with something convoluted in which you said a vague comment that the idealized prime minister in MY (kwrbt's) head doesn't matter but that you want to combine rabbi mizrahi with jtf and a few other groups.   So that is why I said you changed the subject.  Because you did.

Oh I did? It's amazing how much I can say and do here without doing anything. Must be the ruah hakodesh I just acquired. Or maybe it takes one to know one, and you can see what I'm thinking or will say.

Anyways, I said Rav Ovadia wouldn't have given land to terrorists. Whether he would keep them in Israel is unknown.

As for your imaginary prime ministers, I'm not trying to imagine what a perfect president would do, what I am saying is that of the people in the world to work with, meaning support and political appeal, Rabbi Mizrachi is the best candidate.

However, I expect that any candidate running that is normal would encounter ferocious resistance, and that's why I said imagine him as the head of Shas. If more parties were normal, it would make JTF running easier.

Of course you're looking to attack me first and call me immature to resolve whatever self-esteem issue I couldn't care less about. Personally, I get amused by being able to return insults, except it isn't particularly useful, and shameful that that's what you have to contribute in regards to what I say here, as usual. Anyways, your posts earlier were poorly expressed, and therefore I didn't change the topic, I responded to a misunderstanding, and was trying to say that I don't believe any one person would measure up to the man Rav Kahane ZT"L was, but put Rabbi Mizrachi's love for Torah and courage to speak it (hence the gay parade response), Jews for Judaism's outreach program and our political message together, and together we could do what Rabbi Kahane did and wanted to do.

By the way, I couldn't give a crap if you attack me, but now your twisting made Chaim attack (and thank G-d he didn't say he believed it) Rabbi Mizrachi, and better either of us had never said a word here than for that to happen.

Re-read the sentence "“While it may have been possible to make peace with Mazen and his partisans, Hamas’s intentions will never change and therefore any political solution will be doomed from the onset, making it impossible to conquer some peace at least for the next 10 to 20 years."

May have are the key words. Anyways in his lecture he said they'd attack in 10 or 20 years at least, so yes, he did say [elsewhere] that a political agreement could be reached with Fatah, but not that it would bring actual peace. In this article, shows clearly he's not talking about making any peace with Fatah or really talking about them at all, he's saying that at some other time Israel tried to give land, Fatah would have taken it, and they would be happy for a few years. Hamas would attack before they start unpacking. He spoke against giving land, which is clearly what he's talking about in a peace agreement here, so it's obvious that he DID NOT IN ANY WAY promote making peace with Fatah, he just mentioned them for the sake of showing 1. That Hamas is that bad, 2. That you can't even get your tribute's worth out of giving a piece to Hamas.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge