Author Topic: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!  (Read 19273 times)

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Offline jsullivan

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Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« on: August 16, 2007, 03:57:19 AM »
A very prominent Israeli attorney, Yoram Sheftel, has offered to help Chaim Ben Pesach in his long battle to gain Israeli citizenship.

Chaim was expelled from Israel 11 years ago, and has been barred from setting foot in the Holy Land ever since.

Sheftel will first try to convince the Interior Ministry to reverse their evil decision to expel and bar Chaim. If the Interior Ministry does not reverse their immoral decision, then Chaim's supporters in Israel plan to appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court.

Now Chaim needs letters of support from prominent people in the United States and Israel who agree with us that it was a grotesque injustice to prevent Chaim from making aliyah while at the same time inviting the Arab Hitler Yasser Arafat and 80,000 Muslim Nazi terrorist mass murderers from the PLO/Fatah into the Holy Land. Arafat and the 80,000 PLO/Fatah terrorists murdered 1800 innocent Jewish men, women and children after the Israeli government invited them in.

What can we do to help Chaim? Who should we write to, to try to get letters of support from prominent people? Should we have a mass demonstration at the Israeli Consulate demanding that Chaim be allowed to make aliyah?

Offline Wayne Jude

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 04:16:46 AM »
I in!

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 05:24:12 AM »
Why should they care what "prominent people in the United States" think? 

I think someone like Avigdor Lieberman and others who made aliyah from the USSR, should be obligated to help since the JDL helped Soviet Jewry.


With all his media exposure, is Rabbi Schmuley Boteach considered prominent?  With his media appearances and also considering that I believe he's supposed to start a TV show in Israel, would he be considered prominent?  Boteach supports   I think he'd be in favor of Chaim being allowed to make aliyah.  Would Lubab know if Boteach would be in favor of Chaim? 


Although I disagree with some things he's said at times, his views tend to be better than many liberal rabbis. 


Schmuley has stated the following:

"At every available opportunity the Rebbe reached out to non-Jews. Several times a year, when his live addresses were broadcast on national television, he always addressed the mainstream public. Whether the subject was the need for a moment of prayerful silence in public schools, or a call to greater acts of charity, the Rebbe made it clear that outreach to the widest possible audience was his intention.

Most importantly, he made it a central staple of Chabad outreach to teach the universal code of morality, as embodied in the Bible's Noachide covenant, to all non-Jews. "


He also stated:

         "This is a subject that is extremely close to my heart. Three months after the Rebbe's death I was summoned from my station in Oxford to a meeting of the Chabad leadership in London, where I was told that I would have to rescind the membership of 5,000 non-Jewish students because too many in Anglo-Jewry complained that their participation diluted the Jewish character of our organization."   

 
       So I think he would be pleased that Chaim supports having a good relationship with Christians, especially those who support the Noahide Laws.   


He also has contacts with Giuliani.  Giuliani made it known that he considered Arafat to be a terrorist.  However, if JTF could get Boteach to write a letter of support for Chaim, I'm not sure if it would be good or not to try and get him to have Giuliani do the same. 

There are some conservatives who are so opposed to Giuliani that they will look for any excuse to bash him.   If it were to get in the media that Giuliani supports Chaim being allowed to make Aliyah, there'd probably be lots of people who know nothing about Chaim who would try and bash him and consequently, make it look bad for Giuliani. 


When I've mentioned Boteach's name on this forum in the past, there have been some disagreements.  However, unless anyone else has any other ideas, he might be one of the few people who Israel's courts would consider prominent.  I'm not saying he's a better rabbi than most others in the US, just that he's more well-known due to his media appearances. 



In summary, I have no idea who from the US, Israel's court would consider to be prominent.  I think
someone like Boteach could be good enough.  Although Chaim probably disagrees with Boteach on some things Boteach has written or said, more than I disagree with him, I think Chaim could put his differences aside in exchange for an endorsement;  they probably agree more than they disagree.


Is Debbie Schlussel considered prominent enough?  She's written newspaper columns and sometimes makes television and radio appearances.  I think she definitely would write a letter on behalf of Chaim.  However, maybe they'd consider her to be too anti-Bolshevik for them.  I'm not sure.   Olmert would probably go crazy if he knew anything about her and saw a letter of endorsement from her.   

Offline Mishmaat

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 05:33:12 AM »
B"H

Whatever I can do to help, I will.


Offline mord

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 09:18:19 AM »
Was'nt Yoram Sheftel the lawyer who defended Ivan Demjajuk?
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline mord

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 09:36:48 AM »
He's a good lawyer he likes controversy
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Dan

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 09:38:13 AM »
I'm in!

Offline Chaim, Jr.

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 09:45:07 AM »
Chaim:  Talk about self-hating Jews, Yoram Sheftel is the attorney who defended Ukranian Jew-killer JOHN (IVAN)DEMJANJUK.  He was so hated that someone threw acid in his face.  He sounds like a real Ron Kuby.  Do you really want to be represented by "Satan's Lawyer-The most hated man in Israel"?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2007, 09:57:11 PM by Chaim, Jr. »

Offline mord

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 09:47:58 AM »
I don'nt think he liked Ivan just defended him,this could be his repentence
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Lisa

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 09:54:46 AM »
How about right wing Rabbi's Daniel Lapin and Aryeh Spero?

http://www.towardtradition.org

http://www.caucusforamerica.com

Rabbi Lapin does lots of outreach with conservative Christian organizations, and Rabbi Spero was involved in that protest against the New York Times a while back. 


Offline mord

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 10:05:42 AM »
He also defended Nadia Matar 



http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=1764






Quote
Yoram Sheftel’s Opening Statement on behalf of Nadia Matar
Anyone who was not present to hear Adv. Yoram Sheftel’s opening statement in the courtroom of the Jerusalem Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday, June 14, 2006, simply missed a historic event.

Adv. Sheftel represents the Chairperson of Women in Green, Nadia Matar, who is charged with “insulting a public servant” because of a letter that she sent to the head of the Deportation Administration, Yonatan Basi, in which she compared him to the Judenrat (to read the letter: .)

Unfortunately, taping court proceedings is forbidden, and all that remains of Adv. Yoram Sheftel’s opening statement is what was typed by the stenographer, in a document entitled “The Protocol.” After reading this Protocol, it became clear to us all that, unfortunately, the
stenographer did not succeed in following what Adv. Sheftel said, and she did not type this properly. Spelling mistakes, the lack of vocalization, and sentences that were not typed or were left uncompleted turn this document into a horror instead of enjoyable reading. Because of the importance of Adv. Sheftel’s statement, the Women in Green executive resolved to attempt to reconstruct the gist of the statement, based on the adequate passages in the Protocol and working closely with Adv. Sheftel.

The following is an abstract of what happened and was said on the first day of the trial, Justice David Mintz presiding.

Adv. Yoram Sheftel requested that the judge exercise his authority under Section 150 of the Criminal Code and discharge the charges, by allowing the pleading of the defense “on the grounds of justice.” In a fascinating speech, almost one hour long, Sheftel substantiated his request by citing numerous examples from the recent and more distant past of people who said, and even did, much more serious things, but were not placed on trial. (The examples will be listed, one after the other, below.) All these examples prove that this is a case of “selective law enforcement founded on invalid political considerations and/or on cowardice.” Adv. Sheftel showed that anyone who belongs to the leftist camp can say and claim whatever he pleases, even if such statements constitute a clear violation of the law, and the State Attorney’s office will not lift a finger. In contrast, anyone who belongs to the patriotic and Zionist camp is liable to be placed on trial, even if it is highly doubtful whether his statements constitute an offense.

The prosecutor responded to the long list of examples brought by Sheftel by stating that what Sheftel said might be correct when a clearly political figure is insulted, but have no force regarding a simple “public servant” like Yonatan Basi. Adv. Sheftel replied, in a most convincing argument, that Yonatan Basi is not the average “public servant,” who falls under the protection of the law (such as a policeman who issues a parking ticket), rather, Yonatan Basi is a completely political appointment, an individual who volunteered (albeit for pay) to implement the deportation crime.

At the end of the lengthy court session, the judge asked the prosecutor whether it was really worthwhile to continue with this trial, and actually broadly hinted that it might be worthwhile for the State Attorney’s Office to retract the indictment- which would prevent the further public dissemination of what Nadia Matar had said. The next court session was set for September 10, 2006.

The most fascinating section of Adv. Sheftel’s statement consists of the many examples that he cited in support of his argument that there is no legal and/or public basis for the charges. The following is Adv. Sheftel’s statement, based on the Protocol:
cotinued on above link
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 10:07:19 AM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Jasmina

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 10:12:51 AM »
I'll support Chaim 100%!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

newman

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 10:15:57 AM »
Count me in!

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 12:01:37 PM »
This is great and I urge everyone to stand firm on this and fight with Chaim that he can make his dream come true.  He deserves it.  It may be tough with the leftists, but any American citizen on this forum if we mention to the government of Israel, if they want to be known as a democracy then prove it.    We owe it to Chaim he has sacraficed a lot for so many it is now time for us to stand on this issue.
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Offline jsullivan

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 01:05:59 PM »
Yoram Sheftel did indeed defend the Nazi war criminal Demanyuk, yimach shmo vezichro. And Sheftel got him acquitted.

What Sheftel did with Demanyuk was a disgrace. Sheftel usually defends rightwing Jews like Nadia Matar from Women in Green and the Jewish teenage girls who were placed in prison for months because they engaged in civil disobedience to protest the expulsion in Gush Katif. Sheftel often defends these rightwing Jews for free. So I can't understand how he could defend the monster Demanyuk. But he did.

Maybe it was just ego. Sheftel is a brilliant and highly respected attorney who might have wanted to prove that he could even get a beast like Demanyuk acquitted. Whatever his reasons, there is no excuse. We do not defend his actions in the Demanyuk case, in fact we condemn what he did in that case.

When Sheftel heard about what was done to Chaim, he volunteered to represent Chaim. Although he usually defends rightwing Jews, Sheftel is respected by the Bolshevik Israeli Supreme Court. Sheftel is also feared by many on the left.

Sheftel does a weekly audio program on Arutz 7 (in Hebrew), in which he takes rightwing positions.

But because of what he did with the monster Demanyuk, this is no simple matter morally. Chaim decided to accept Sheftel's offer of help because Chaim believes that it is essential to the Jewish cause that he be allowed to make aliyah (immigrate to Israel). Chaim believes that this could ultimately save many Jewish lives if G-d willing he wins his battle to get into Israel.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 01:09:20 PM by jsullivan »

newman

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 01:12:36 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly, Jimmy.

I would dance with the 'devil' himself to save a Jewish life. Chaim is 100% right in this instance and need not apologise to anyone.

Offline cjd

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 01:30:46 PM »
This is great news I pray Chaim gets his wish. Jimmy please keep us posted on whatever is needed to make this happen. As far as the lawyer goes sometimes there are issues that prompt a lawyer to take on a case such as with Demanyuk that they normally would not. He is assisting Chaim so lets give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Offline TorahZionist

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 02:09:32 PM »
Now is the time to start distributing this video: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=5227.0

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 02:17:04 PM »
Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. My Uncle on my father's side (who is not Jewish) was in charge of the 700 Club and they used to eat dinner together. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all? I'll ask my Aunt. I'm not sure how close they are anymore but if it will help, it's worth a shot.

I'll do anything I can to help... just name it. Want me to fly somewhere?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 02:20:15 PM by jeffguy »
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 02:42:11 PM »
Pat Robertson is a friend of my family. My Uncle on my father's side (who is not Jewish) was in charge of the 700 Club and they used to eat dinner together. I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all? I'll ask my Aunt. I'm not sure how close they are anymore but if it will help, it's worth a shot.

I'll do anything I can to help... just name it. Want me to fly somewhere?

Of course, a letter from Pat Robertson would help a great deal!

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 02:59:04 PM »
I do hope that Chaim will be able to go to Israel.  I hope we all get to see it happen.  God willing!!!!!

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 03:17:52 PM »
Pat Robertson is a friend of my family.  I *might* be able to get a letter from him. Would that help at all?
Of course, a letter from Pat Robertson would help a great deal!

Holy Cow!  Obviously, that would help, and Pat Robertson is a TRUE ally of the Jewish People.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 11:27:26 PM by Scriabin »

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 04:56:32 PM »
Wow Jeffguy, that is a great connection. I think Pat Robertson would help. I hope Chaim gets in but I hope we have a JTF meeting with him before he leaves so we can say goodbye. I will do whatever I can to help but unfortunately I don't have any good connections nor do I know famous people.
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Offline mosquewatch

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 07:57:31 PM »
Just of a note of a  Christian friend  of Israel. Pastor John Hagee is a staunch advocate of Israel and the Jewish people and does not believe in preaching our Theology to the Jewish people.

I beg you too watch this link.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Iv1Wz5SgSQ
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Offline mord

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Re: Big News! Chaim Is Applying For Aliyah Again!
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 08:23:19 PM »
Yes but no one   knows Pastor Hagee who is a great man personally like Jeffguy knows Pat Robertson
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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