Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said

[ChabadKahanist]

Eli Yishai: If Only People Knew What Rabbi Yosef Really Said

Yishai says Rabbi Yosef never supported Oslo Accords; says recordings could reveal all and give him ten mandates.
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By Nir Har-Zahav
First Publish: 12/26/2014, 2:02 PM


Eli YishaiYonatan Sindel/Flash 90
Chairman of Ha'am Itanu Eli Yishai believes that his party's chances could be enhanced if he published recordings of the Shas party's spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef z"tl.

"Maran [Rabbi Yosef - ed.] never said he supported the Oslo Agreements," Yishai said on Radio Israel, referring to the 1993 accords that Shas under Aryeh Deri enabled in a crucial vote abstention.

Yishai intends to reveal yet-unheard recordings of Rabbi Yosef, but noted that he will "do everything possible without prejudice against the Shas movement - good things that I can say, I will say" - this despite Shas's multiple attacks and even death threats against Yishai.

"But really, perhaps to a certain extent, I am also paying a price," Yishai added. He said that if he played all the recordings his party would supersede Shas and gain ten seats in the next Knesset, in contradistinction to polls indicating he may not pass the Knesset threshold.

"They have said to me, 'If you say all you have to say you will get ten seats plus,' but it's not an easy decision and as a public figure, I know it and I'll do (what I must) even at a large price if I have to," he said.

On the issue of an agreement with the Palestinian Arabs, Yishai insisted that Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef never supported the Oslo Accords - against Shas, which has, at times, aligned itself with the Left and is increasingly doing so under Deri.

"I think the decision to establish a Palestinian state is bad for Israel, it's no secret, unfortunately this is already a fact," he said. "It's there, it works, there are negotiations and talks with the Palestinian Authority, with ministers there."

"This is really a serious problem," he said. "Maran said to me, in recent years, 'I will talk about peace and they wage war,' it is impossible to believe them. You see that they don't want peace, do not want true peace, just to hit their target and destroy us."

Yishai added that there is no plausible possibility that the PA will recognize Israel as a Jewish state, even if they commit to do so publicly, as for them such a decision would be "irreversible."

Yishai, when asked if the Oslo Accords were a mistake, said immediately "yes, I think so."

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If it's true, he needs to stop being a shlemiel and release those recordings right away !
It would mean that the leaders of the Shas party mislead their voters for decades.   But why if they misrepresented his views, would the Rabbi never have mentioned it?   

My guess is he probably made some contradictory statements over the years and Yishai has the side of it that usually didn't get press, while the peace talk did get press.   So either way, release the recordings and let's go on a the right path instead of the old insane way.

[Zelhar]

That's bulls*t! Had Ovadia Yosef cared so much he would have spoken out. The fact is as matter of principle Ovadia Yosef was very left leaning. Sometimes he spoke against the wickedness and dishonesty of the Arabs, yet he had not ruled them our as "peace partners", and he was in favor surrendering just about any piece  of land for a peace treaty, even rationalizing it in his famous "saving life takes precedence to saving territory" halachic thesis.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

 http://youtu.be/08SNBv6MQV4?t=35m1s

 Rabbi Mizrachi on this. (From a few days ago). 2 Minutes.

[Israel Chai]

http://youtu.be/08SNBv6MQV4?t=35m1s

 Rabbi Mizrachi on this. (From a few days ago). 2 Minutes.

Too much to swallow. Rav Ovadia takes it back? He can't, and that move could be just for his popularity, so he gets support from left and right. He was misled? What did they tell him, the Arabs all of a sudden could be trusted? The biggest Torah genius got misled by leftists to think we could have peace with Arabs by giving them tribute. I don't know all the details of this, but with what I know, I don't believe a word of what the Rabbi said.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

(Quick google search got me to this, I believe we did see this some time ago as well, maybe later I will search the forum and see)


 http://www.jewishpress.com/news/letter-reveals-rav-ovadia-reversed-land-for-peace-ruling-in-2003/2013/10/09/0/

 Still not our position though, but it claims that he did not trust Arafat and the PA and said not to give them any land for anything. I think it was also apparent during Gush Katif where he cursed Sharon for it.

[Israel Chai]

(Quick google search got me to this, I believe we did see this some time ago as well, maybe later I will search the forum and see)


 http://www.jewishpress.com/news/letter-reveals-rav-ovadia-reversed-land-for-peace-ruling-in-2003/2013/10/09/0/

 Still not our position though, but it claims that he did not trust Arafat and the PA and said not to give them any land for anything. I think it was also apparent during Gush Katif where he cursed Sharon for it.

If Arafat was peaceful, giving him land would be worse. It seems from rabbi Mizrachi's speech that they told him they would hold all the money, and that basically there would be different terms than complete surrender, which means he trusted leftists to make a deal that would be honored with Arabs. I don't think a Torah genius is that stupid.

[Israel Chai]

The "lack of emmunah" theory that Rabbi Kahane proposed about him doesn't really explain everything to me. He trusts commies and sex-slavers but not Hashem? My only logical explanation, which isn't a statement of fact in any way, is that they had some kind of dirt on him or one of his friends, and they blackmailed him.

[edu]

The following article in Hebrew brings a quote from former head of Shas party, R. Eli Yishai
http://www.srugim.co.il/100414-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99-%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%99-%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99-%D7%9B%D7%9F-%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%9C%D7%95-%D7%9B%D7%9F-%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%99-%D7%97%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%9B%D7%9F
from secular year 2002 {5761 or 5762}
אז עובר ישי לדבר גם על דעותיו ומפתיע את הכתב "אנחנו יושבים כעת בממשלת ליכוד ואנחנו אומרים במפורש: "כן אוסלו, כן פינוי חברון, כן ערפאת."
Translation, we are sitting at this time in the government of the Likud and we say explicitly,
Yes Oslo, Yes Hebron eviction,Yes Arafat"

[Zelhar]

Whatever he said, there was no admission of self mistake, no apology, and no reversal of his principle that significant portions of our tiny country should be traded for peace treaty with the Arabs.

Ovadia Yosef was supposed to be a genius and he lived through the entire history of Israel and most of the events predating its independence. Really he didn't know who our peace partners are until he reached his late 80s? Really he couldn't tell that Arafat was insincere  until AFTER the second intifada broke out?

[ChabadKahanist]

Whatever he said, there was no admission of self mistake, no apology, and no reversal of his principle that significant portions of our tiny country should be traded for peace treaty with the Arabs.

Ovadia Yosef was supposed to be a genius and he lived through the entire history of Israel and most of the events predating its independence. Really he didn't know who our peace partners are until he reached his late 80s? Really he couldn't tell that Arafat was insincere  until AFTER the second intifada broke out?

Or maybe he was senile?

[Yehudayaakov]

he activated the death oslo accord he could have prevented it triggering the death of thousands of defenseless Jews, he is more culpable along with pipi than others combined.

[Israel Chai]

Or maybe he was senile?

He seemed coherent. Either they threatened to shut his yeshivas down or they had something on him or his buddies. I don't know why I'm wasting my brain on this, but I can't figure out any other logical option.

[ChabadKahanist]

He seemed coherent. Either they threatened to shut his yeshivas down or they had something on him or his buddies. I don't know why I'm wasting my brain on this, but I can't figure out any other logical option.

You make sense.

[Israel Chai]

You make sense.

Still a billion problems with each of those theories. The event that my gut says key to unraveling this thing is why he cursed Sharon. You don't go around putting level 10 curses on people that did what you said. This makes the theory that the rav was a leftist, and his Wilsonian goggles that saw everything going perfect  were ripped off when he saw the effects of what he helped, and got mad. That theory has twice the problems of all my other ones, especially considering his ideology wasn't left wing, at least as far as values are concerned.

You abstain, letting Sharon win, and then you curse him for using what you gave him? The only other theory is he didn't really believe that he was going to do it, the most retarded one, because Rav. Torah genius would be smarter to think Arabs make peace than to think leftists won't make tribute.

I got nothing really, those before were just the top ideas. I have no clue why he did it, but I'm noticing a common theme with my conspiracy theories: He turned from the path to save someone's skin or investment. You don't use Torah for your purposes as a rabbi, so his purposes are likely irrelevant, even from what Rabbi Mizrachi, who's his big fan, said, he seems to have had alterior motives in making a decision for Israel.

The problem though is that if he cursed Sharon, and Hashem blamed the Rav, wouldn't he be cursed too? Why did Hashem let his curse go through if they weren't still tight?

[ChabadKahanist]

Still a billion problems with each of those theories. The event that my gut says key to unraveling this thing is why he cursed Sharon. You don't go around putting level 10 curses on people that did what you said. This makes the theory that the rav was a leftist, and his Wilsonian goggles that saw everything going perfect  were ripped off when he saw the effects of what he helped, and got mad. That theory has twice the problems of all my other ones, especially considering his ideology wasn't left wing, at least as far as values are concerned.

You abstain, letting Sharon win, and then you curse him for using what you gave him? The only other theory is he didn't really believe that he was going to do it, the most retarded one, because Rav. Torah genius would be smarter to think Arabs make peace than to think leftists won't make tribute.

I got nothing really, those before were just the top ideas. I have no clue why he did it, but I'm noticing a common theme with my conspiracy theories: He turned from the path to save someone's skin or investment. You don't use Torah for your purposes as a rabbi, so his purposes are likely irrelevant, even from what Rabbi Mizrachi, who's his big fan, said, he seems to have had alterior motives in making a decision for Israel.

The problem though is that if he cursed Sharon, and Hashem blamed the Rav, wouldn't he be cursed too? Why did Hashem let his curse go through if they weren't still tight?

Good questions

[Zelhar]

He had a different set of values, so short term funding for his yeshivas and other institutions seemed like a good deal in exchange for portions of the holy land. He was not brilliant in international relations either. He probably also never got information from good unbiased sources. He trusted people like Deri to feed him with their falsehoods. Again showing that he was no genius in reading people character.

He seemed coherent. Either they threatened to shut his yeshivas down or they had something on him or his buddies. I don't know why I'm wasting my brain on this, but I can't figure out any other logical option.

[Yehudayaakov]

He seemed coherent. Either they threatened to shut his yeshivas down or they had something on him or his buddies. I don't know why I'm wasting my brain on this, but I can't figure out any other logical option.

the thirst for power aligned with stupidity suffice! same for pipi can be said and these dark people in the shadow  are able to elect dumb on the right they can bent at will every time pipi has bad stuff hidden in the wardrobe that allow this fifth column within have traction on him.

[Israel Chai]

He had a different set of values, so short term funding for his yeshivas and other institutions seemed like a good deal in exchange for portions of the holy land. He was not brilliant in international relations either. He probably also never got information from good unbiased sources. He trusted people like Deri to feed him with their falsehoods. Again showing that he was no genius in reading people character.

That's your guys' theory, but it just doesn't add up. You're trusting a leftist to honor a deal with you, that involves trusting Arabs? That says he should have his description changed from ingenious to ingenuous, and it's not an emmunah issue now, you're saying he was a gullible fool. He lived through enough for that to not make sense, and also made lots of rulings. Two I know of are "if you have to work on shabbos, still come in to daven in the morning" and "if you convert/make teshuva in Israel, you must join the Sephardic because there's more of them there". 1 is making a bracha on pork 2 is self-serving, and would mean that converts in Guatemala (or wherever they went) should join Lev Tahore, so that doesn't make sense and I'm sure he wouldn't advocate mandatory Chabad if you find yourself in crown heights. I'm 50-50 on that first one, but the second one doesn't apply to other cases, so I'm 100% against. Maybe he wasn't as smart as they say? Or just more book smart and less "street" smart.

Why curse Sharon? What did he think was going down?

[Israel Chai]

the thirst for power aligned with stupidity suffice! same for pipi can be said and these dark people in the shadow  are able to elect dumb on the right they can bent at will every time pipi has bad stuff hidden in the wardrobe that allow this fifth column within have traction on him.

I only got like 10% of that, you're saying Rav Ovadia wanted power? Interesting, maybe they promised to stick him or one of his guys in the government, and then they just screwed him. The theory with money works fine until you remember this guy sat around studying day and night and wasn't exactly living lavishly.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

He had a different set of values, so short term funding for his yeshivas and other institutions seemed like a good deal in exchange for portions of the holy land. He was not brilliant in international relations either. He probably also never got information from good unbiased sources. He trusted people like Deri to feed him with their falsehoods. Again showing that he was no genius in reading people character.

Yes, a genius at reading books and text and memorizing it, and even a genius at talmud study, is not the same thing as a genius at understanding people and personalities or world events.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/189220

Explosive Tape Shows Rabbi Yosef Slamming 'Evil' Aryeh Deri
Never before seen recordings show former Shas spiritual head rejecting Deri over corruption; 'Why would I betray Eli Yishai?'

"An explosive recording has been released showing former Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef slamming current party chairman Aryeh Deri for corruption, as tensions continue to escalate between Deri and is arch-rival Eli Yishai.

Aired on Channel Two, the never-before-seen recordings are from a meeting held in 2008 between Rabbi Yosef and several members of his inner circle, including his top aid Tzvi Hakak.

In it, Rabbi Yosef refers to the possibility floated by some Shas members of Deri making a comeback following several years in the political wilderness, after being jailed for corruption in 1999. "Anyone who suggests that isn't just wrong, he's a fool... 30%-40% (of Shas supporters) will leave us," the rabbi says.

"They judged him in court - why take someone who is a thief?" the agitated Rabbi Yosef asks Hakak. "Why would you take someone who accepts bribes?"

Addressing Deri's respect for Rabbi Yosef's authority, or lack thereof, the rabbi added: "I know from past experience, Aryeh is too independent. A number of times I have spoken with him - he didn't want to listen."

At one point he even refers to Deri as a "rasha," or wicked person, when relating Deri's ouster of a family member from a particular position within Shas. "Your mother cried tears," he related.

If he wanted to run a party, suggested Rabbi Yosef, "let them make him his own party... I won't betray Eli Yishai."

The recordings come as tensions between Deri and former Shas party head Eli Yishai continue to escalate.

Yishai headed Shas following Deri's incarceration, but despite Rabbi Yosef's harsh words for Deri, four years after the recording he backed him to take over from Yishai. The two were at loggerheads ever since then, with Yishai being effectively sidelined by his arch-rival and even prevented from attending a memorial service for Rabbi Yosef.

The tensions led Yishai to break away earlier this month and form his own party, Ha'am Itanu. Polls showed that the party would split Shas's electoral strength, and left some Shas officials concerned for the party's very future.

But the drama deepened further still after a pact between Shas and Ha'am Itanu not to attack one another was left in tatters when Deri publicly slammed Yishai during a press conference. Deri loyalists have threatened violence against Yishai for breaking away from Shas, and a group of extremists even disrupted a press conference announcing Yishai's new party, which was initially called "Yachad" before being changed to Ha'am Itanu. One Shas supporter was arrested over the incident in Jerusalem's Ramada hotel.

In response, Yishai said he possessed recordings of Rabbi Yosef which clearly showed his support for him over Deri, and implied he would be releasing them at some point; the latest recordings are believed to be only the first of several.

Intriguingly, Channel Two claims that subsequent recordings will reveal just why, despite his harsh words for Deri, Rabbi Yosef eventually agreed to support him over Yishai four years after the recording."



This has to do with the crook Deri, but what's it got to do with Land for Peace?   At least on the bright side this may help put the nail in the Shas coffin.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

היום כולם יודעים את שטענתי תמיד:סבא,הרב עובדיה יוסף זצוק״ל התנגד לא רק להתנתקות אלא גם להסכמי אוסלו.
גם היום אם היינו זוכים וסבא היה בחיים, הוא ודאי היה מוביל מדיניות המתנגדת מסירת שטחים לאויב הערבי.
זו האמת ואין בילתה.



Today everyone knows that always claimed: grandfather, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef זצוק״ל opposed to disengagement but also for the Oslo accords.
 Even today if we win and Grandpa was alive, he would have opposed the policy of handing over territory to the Arab enemy.
 It's true and not spent.

 From R' Ovadia Yosef's Grandson (Via Facebook).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

היום כולם יודעים את שטענתי תמיד:סבא,הרב עובדיה יוסף זצוק״ל התנגד לא רק להתנתקות אלא גם להסכמי אוסלו.
גם היום אם היינו זוכים וסבא היה בחיים, הוא ודאי היה מוביל מדיניות המתנגדת מסירת שטחים לאויב הערבי.
זו האמת ואין בילתה.



Today everyone knows that always claimed: grandfather, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef זצוק״ל opposed to disengagement but also for the Oslo accords.
 Even today if we win and Grandpa was alive, he would have opposed the policy of handing over territory to the Arab enemy.
 It's true and not spent.

 From R' Ovadia Yosef's Grandson (Via Facebook).

I think this is a rewriting of history.  But at least it's a good rewriting - an improvement over the reality.   If people will assume going forward that he was against Oslo, that is a win-win situation.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Ok, I also see R' Mizrachi put this video of R Ovadia against Deri on his page. (Hebrew). As well as R' Bar-Hayim.