Does the fact that the Jews lived in Israel give tham the right to control there

[Dexter]

Does the fact that the Jews lived in Israel give tham the right to control there ?
Does the fact that the Frenchs lived in france give tham the right to control there ?
What gives you the right to control a land as people ?

[Joe Schmo]

Yes.  Yes.  The Torah.

[Boeregeneraal]

There needs to be control, otherwise it would be anarchy

[Dexter]

Yes.  Yes.  The Torah.

Besides of that .

There needs to be control, otherwise it would be anarchy

I'm talking about control of spacific people on spacific land .

[newman]

1/ The Jews lived in Israel centuries before arabs were even thought of.

2/ The Jews paid $ for it.

3/ The Jews paid blood for it.

4/ G_d gave it to them.

What's the arab claim?.........

"we wan't it 'coz we hate Jews"

[Dexter]

the arabs also paid blood for it in the 7th centery .
Why does the fact that jews lived there befor arabs give tham the right to control it ?

[newman]

the arabs also paid blood for it in the 7th centery .
Why does the fact that jews lived there befor arabs give tham the right to control it ?

The same reason your family has the right to control your house. It's THEIRS. NOT the arabs', not mine, not the Pope's.

[Dexter]

the arabs also paid blood for it in the 7th centery .
Why does the fact that jews lived there befor arabs give tham the right to control it ?

The same reason your family has the right to control your house. It's THEIRS. NOT the arabs', not mine, not the Pope's.

It's diffrent, my family BOUGHT this house, we claim it because we bought it, the Jews as PEOPLE claim the land because we have been here befor the arabs, not because we bought it .

[newman]

the arabs also paid blood for it in the 7th centery .
Why does the fact that jews lived there befor arabs give tham the right to control it ?

The same reason your family has the right to control your house. It's THEIRS. NOT the arabs', not mine, not the Pope's.

It's diffrent, my family BOUGHT this house, we claim it because we bought it, the Jews as PEOPLE claim the land because we have been here befor the arabs, not because we bought it .

Much of the land in EY was PURCHASED from absentee muslim land owners in cold, hard, cash between 1880 and 1947.

The Jews are the ONLY people in history who PAID for their OWN country AND fought for it when it was already theirs. The JEWS have TRIPPLE the legitimacy to their country as anyone else does.

[Boeregeneraal]

the arabs also paid blood for it in the 7th centery .
Why does the fact that jews lived there befor arabs give tham the right to control it ?

As Newman said, the Jews(Zionist Organization) paid for the land of Israel-we'll parts of it anyway. Then the arabs tried to exterminate the Jewish bought lands. But, to their surprise, lost the wars,-and as in all wars, the Jews rightfully claimed the lands lost by the arabs.
Therefore, the acquired land, is rightfully Israel's.

Take for example Paraguay and Bolivia. Bolivia was much stronger, and decided to invade Paraguay in order to annex (steal) the northern territories of Paraguay. To Bolivia's horror, it's army was defeated! The Paraguayians pushed north into Bolivia-until a peace treaty was signed. Paraguay was now in possesion of Bolivian territory, and rightfully annexed it.

This is just one war referenced, and if other countries are allowed by international law to do this, then why should Israel be of any exception.



As for the Arabs in the occupied territories:
When the arabs invaded tiny Israel, the palistinians were asked to evacuate Israel for their own security-up until the Jews were exterminated, and the palestinians could now steal the possesions and lands of the Jews. The Pali's refused, and as a result are today in the sitaution they are. Israel does not rule over the arabs in palestine, but under their own elected government. Should those people come under the control of the Israeli government, Israel has a RIGHt to have control over them-and if the palestinians don't like civilised control over themselfs-they can always leave

------------

Hope this helps Dexter?  

[New Yorker]

Jews have as much of a right to the land of Israel as the Chinese have to China. Wow, people seem to have a problem with the completely self evident obvious.

[Dexter]

Jews have as much of a right to the land of Israel as the Chinese have to China. Wow, people seem to have a problem with the completely self evident obvious.

It isn't what I believe, I just gave anti-Israeli claim that I heard .

[RationalThought110]

1/ The Jews lived in Israel centuries before arabs were even thought of.

2/ The Jews paid $ for it.

3/ The Jews paid blood for it.

4/ G_d gave it to them.

What's the arab claim?.........

"we wan't it 'coz we hate Jews"

Is Dexter trying to claim the opposite of what you're saying?

[newman]

Jews have as much of a right to the land of Israel as the Chinese have to China. Wow, people seem to have a problem with the completely self evident obvious.

It isn't what I believe, I just gave anti-Israeli claim that I heard .

Baruch HaShem!

I thought you were getting flakey for a while, there, little buddy.

[newman]

It's diffrent, my family BOUGHT this house, we claim it because we bought it, the Jews as PEOPLE claim the land because we have been here befor the arabs, not because we bought it .

I believe it was Daveed HaMelech A"h that actually purchased the most controversial properties of Eres Yisrael, even when he had the opportunity to take them for free. One of them was the Temple Mount...

He said that he did it because no one should be able to say that the Jews stole that that land.

The sort of noble, appologetic, wishy-washy attitude that has now degenerated into full-blown self-hate and insecurity in EY today!

[mord]

The family that lives in Israel continously for the longest length of time is the the zinnati family i think thats the name   



http://www.travelnet.co.il/israel/Haifa/haifa14-PEQI.htm 

PEQI'IN



Peqi'in evokes feelings of awe in the hearts of secular as well as religious Jews because it is the only place in the Holy Land that has had continuous Jewish settlement from the days of the Second Temple, and because the noted scholar, Rabbi Shimon Bar-Yochai, lived here for many years.


Today there are only a few Jews, members of the Zinati family, living among the Druze and Moslem villagers. In 1972 a band of students from Jerusalem set up a yeshiva in Peqi'in, with the aim of re-establishing the Jewish community and restoring the old synagogue.



The synagogue is believed to date from the 2nd century CE. Although it was restored in 1873, stone carvings of the Holy Ark, a menora, shofar, lulav and etrog dating from the first synagogue are embedded in the walls. Parts of an ancient Scroll of the Law kept in the Ark are said to be 1,200 years old.



The stone houses have overhanging balconies fashioned with wrought iron and vines creeping along pole supports on the flat-topped roofs. Narrow streets lead to the synagogue and, further on, to the enclosed spring. This is where the 1st-century CE rabbinical sage, Rabbi Shimon Bar-Yochai, and his son, Eleazar, are said to have got their water supply when hiding from the Romans for thirteen years in a cave above the village.



Rabbi Shimon Bar-Yochai is believed to have written the Zohar (The Splendour), the treasured book of the Kabbalists, while living in the cave. To reach it, return to the entrance to the village and take the road forking left up the hill. Once you are past the village you arrive at some steps near a stone, with Hebrew writing noting that this is a holy site. The cave is on the left, near the top of the steps.



Rabbi Bar-Yochai's memory is so revered by the pious that on the festival of Lag Ba'Omer tens of thousands of pilgrims converge on his tomb in Meron.



Return to Road No. 89 and drive in the direction of Nahariyya, very shortly arriving at Ma'alot. This settlement is linked to the Arab village of Tarshiha, a little further along the road, and was used as the headquarters of Arab gangs until it was captured by Israelis in 1948. Schoolchildren were taken hostage and killed here by PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi terrorists in 1974.



Take the right fork on reaching Tarshiha and drive a few kilometres until you reach Kfar Vradim, where there is the Tefen Museum of Industry, Art and Nature. Soon afterwards you are at Mi'ilya. The Arabs living in this village are all of the Greek Orthodox faith and a number of their houses are built within and on the ruins of the Crusader castle, Castellum Regis (The King's Castle). Note how the two corner towers on the north side of the ruins stand at their original height.

 

Castellum Regis was captured by Sultan Beibars in 1265.



Return towards Tarshiha, driving up the right-hand fork (Road No. 8833) just after passing the police station. Pass En Yaaqov and brace yourself for another spectacular view. Ahead is the Mediterranean Sea and the Zebulun Valley that you drove through earlier. To the left is the Carmel mountain range and closer, on your left, is the silhouette of Castle Judin.



The road passes Ga'aton and soon branches left to Kibbutz Yehiam and the remains of the Crusader citadel.



Castle Judin, now known as Metzudat Yehiam, was built by the Order of Templars in the 12th century. Later it passed into the hands of the Teutonic Knights it was destroyed in 1265 by Sultan Beibars, in preparation for his attack on Montfort Castle, a few kilometres northwest of Mi'ilya. Unlike many of the other Crusader forts that fell to the Moslems, this one was reoccupied and partially rebuilt in the 18th century by Sheikh Tahar al-Amr. This National Parks site is open daily, April - Sept. 8 a.m. - 5 p.m., Oct. - March 8 a.m. - 4 p.m. It closes one hour earlier on Fridays and holidays. Entrance fee.



Return to the main road (No. 89) and soon arrive at the point where it crosses Road No. 70. Kibbutz Kabri is on your immediate right. It was founded in 1949 by farmers who had been compelled to abandon their settlement at Bet HaArava, north of the Dead Sea, during the War of Independence. There is the Nativ Hashayara memorial here (one kilometre to the southeast) to 46 members of the Haganah convoy who were killed in an ambush while on their way to relieve Kibbutz Yehiam in 1948.



You have two choices for the remainder of the route back to Haifa. You may continue straight for 5 km., turning left (Road No. 4) at Nahariyya for the coastal drive through Akko. Or, and we recommend this route, you may turn left (Road No. 70) at this point for some more of that refreshing Galilee landscape.



Assuming you have turned left, pass the Netiv Hashayara memorial and a picnic area also on your left. Pass Sheikh Daud and Sheikh Danoun, then Amqa, a village abandoned by the Arabs in 1948 which still has ancient columns in some of the houses.



Bet HaEmeq, a kibbutz established by Hungarian and Slovakian survivors of the Holocaust, is close by.



The road winds through one of the largest olive groves in the Galilee. The groves continue through the large Arab villages, Kafr Yassif, and farther on Kafr Jadeida, culminating in a stunning view of the Zebulun Valley with its steam-roller-flat fields. As you dip down a hill, the Carmel looms beyond the kilometres of sunflower fields.



The road meets up with Road No. 85 going left to Zefat and right to Akko. Drive 8 km. to Akko and from there swing south to Haifa along the same highway (No. 4) you travelled at the start of this ro

yes the Zinnati family is the oldest family in Israel  arab or Jewish

[dawntreader]

Newman is 100% correct in everything he had to say in this thread.

Dexter, besides all the arguments you've heard already, there is another argument for the Jew's right to the land.

Have you ever heard the expression "To the Victor Belongs the Spoils"?

Every nation on earth that has conquered another gains the right to the land, its resources etc., the original inhabitants are usually either wiped out, or they become subjects of the conquerers.

Am Yisrael conquered the Canaanites through HaShem's command. All the land of Canaan then became the Land of Israel.

In every other nation on Earth the same sort of thing has happened. The United States fought Mexico for California, New Mexico and Texas. The USA won. Do you think the USA would ever give that land back to Mexico? Do you think Americans ever once shed tears over the fact that we took it from Mexico? Do you think the USA ever once felt sorry for the "poor Mexicans" we took it from?

No. we fought a war and won. Therefore Texas, California and New Mexico belong to the United States.

You can take the argument even farther.

The United States fought the Native American peoples who lived here FIRST. The USA took their land, conquered them in battle etc. Do you believe the USA would ever give the land the USA now holds back to those peoples?

No. Never. Do you think there is hand-wringing, crying over the fact that the land that was once held by Native American peoples is now the great nation known as the United States of America?

No. Never. Because the U.S.A. WON the wars. Sometimes the land was also purchased etc.

Whatever the method...whoever wins the war, or purchases the land is the legitimate owner...no matter WHAT country you might happen to live in.

Only in Israel does the International community have a double standard.

Don't fall into that trap.

[Trumpeldor]

Because the Arabs living in Israel attempted to annihilate the Jews rather than share the land with them. Eretz Yisrael was vivisected into Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. Plus, Eretz Yisrael's borders during its colonization (Jewish and Arab) stretched into Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

[pbc]

No land truly belong to no one.
Human population started somewhere. Let's say Africa.
As technology evolved, tribes started moving to other places, discovering new areas of the world.
As certain tribes settled at all kinds of locations, their numbers grew, and they became a people, a nationality.
Did the land bare a mark saying that the Anglos belong to Europe? no, but they were one of the people who conquered Europe.
The Jews lived in Israel, as the Anglos lived in Europe.

Saying that the bible states Israel as the Jewish land is very good, but I don't think the Arabs or any other people care too much about that.

I have a questions for you guys. If Mexico conquers the US, will the land still belong to the US citizens?
When did that stage of the history end, and when did this new one begin?

[Joe Schmo]

I have a questions for you guys. If Mexico conquers the US, will the land still belong to the US citizens?

No.  In fact, portions of the US are already theirs.

[Daniel]

Jews have as much of a right to the land of Israel as the Chinese have to China. Wow, people seem to have a problem with the completely self evident obvious.

I agree. But then a Palestinians and antzionists will come along and say that Palestinians have as much of a right to the land of Palestine. How do we answer that argument besides for just saying that there is no Palestine and there are no Palestinians?

[newman]

No land truly belong to no one.
Human population started somewhere. Let's say Africa.
As technology evolved, tribes started moving to other places, discovering new areas of the world.
As certain tribes settled at all kinds of locations, their numbers grew, and they became a people, a nationality.
Did the land bare a mark saying that the Anglos belong to Europe? no, but they were one of the people who conquered Europe.
The Jews lived in Israel, as the Anglos lived in Europe.

Saying that the bible states Israel as the Jewish land is very good, but I don't think the Arabs or any other people care too much about that.

I have a questions for you guys. If Mexico conquers the US, will the land still belong to the US citizens?
When did that stage of the history end, and when did this new one begin?

What a load of lofty, hypothetical, academic BS!

Euopeans and Jews have won the 'race' of human development. The arabs and other turd worlders lost. We get to say who owns what!

[TheCoon]

Jewish history in Israel pre-dates the history of all current non-Jewish peoples' in the land of Israel. All pagan idol-worshipping peoples who were there in the beginning don't exist anymore. What right do the muslims have to the land? The only people who were there before Israel was formed were smelly muslim squatters and bedouin camel herders. Then the British brought in muslims from all over the muslim world. The only claim the PLO nazi folks have is that their families were there for a few generations. Those scum even called the Jews what they now call themselves!

The Jews have the history in the land, the Jews were there the longest, the Jews paid for the land with their money and with their blood. The muslim scum only want it because the Jews have it and because its the spot their pedophile prophet seemingly had a seizure and claimed to have "ascended to heaven". He likely made it all up with the belief his idiotic followers would use it as a legitimacy excuse to wage war on the Christians and Jews over the land of Israel.

Even today we see these morons making comments like North and South America was really first discovered by muslims. They claim every land is really theirs...

[Boeregeneraal]

and when it comes to who should own Jerusalem, here is just one answer:

The muslims have THREE holy cities! Mecca, Medina nad Jerusalem. Why can't the Jews just have atleast one?! Jerusalem. After all, if Jerusalem were to belong to the Jews, the mosquitos would still have their TWO religious cities to themselfs. Goes to show how selfish the mosquitos are.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

1/ The Jews lived in Israel centuries before arabs were even thought of.

2/ The Jews paid $ for it.

3/ The Jews paid blood for it.

4/ G_d gave it to them.

What's the arab claim?.........

"we wan't it 'coz we hate Jews"

I think you got the order messed up. #4 should be (and is) the #1 reason.