Question Regarding JTF's current Political Advice

[muman613]

Shalom,

This question is aimed primarily toward Chaim, Shlomo, or Rafoe... I am trying to present a unified message to my congregation. As I have said previously I am making progress within my community, persuading my minyan friends and larger community that Obama is terrible for America and Israel, that Israel must not make concessions to the terrorist arab entity, that Israel must take action against the Iranian threat, and basically attempting to move the line more to the right in a mixed congregation.

It seems to me that for the most part 'Right Wing' Israeli politics means Likud and Bibi. Bibi received a lot of support from my congregation which I supported because he is standing up (apparently) to Obama and those who are selling Israel down the tubes. Of course I share the view of the average long-time JTF member that Bibi is no really 'Right Wing' but I am at a loss of how to explain this to my so-called 'right wing' friends.

It seems that JTF is currently battering Bibi again. And of course I share the feeling he should be held accountable for his errors, but I really am failing to see the positive outcome of bashing Bibi without a viable 'right wing' alternative. I would hate to see our Bibi bashing being used by the left in order to mount another attempt to control Israels politics. I am certain a left-wing coalition would spell more terror, more lang give aways, and more Jewish lives.

Please explain to us how JTF sees the coming few years politically... I would like to know so I can try to influence those around me to this vision.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

By definition the left cannot use our criticisms against bibi because the left agrees with bibi's leftwing stances and actions which we are criticizing.

When bibi contradicted obama the left jeered bibi for eroding the "special relationship."  We criticize him for caving to obama.

When bibi said a negative word about the arabs the left went bezerk.   When he appeases the enemy we complain but the left is happy with that approach and would do even more of it themselves.

Bibi won the election and will make the govt.  The leftists can cry all they want but they will either sit in bibi's govt or the coalition.  Either way, they will not have the chance to rule until a new election comes about.  Feiglin estimated 1 to 2 years.  I'm not sure what you are afraid of.  The truth will never ever help the leftists.

[muman613]

Good points KWRBT, but I am still interested to hear Chaims answer.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Lewinsky is a joke of a leader. He wants to be Israel's Putin but will only ever be Hussein's kurva.

That being said, the fact is that if he truly went far to the right and meant it (i.e. started expelling Arabs left and right, started executing terrorists, cut off their food and water and electricity) it would generate mass outrage by the bleeding-heart, Hellenized majority of Israel and he really would be in a world of trouble. Still, that doesn't excuse him being a kurva.

[muman613]

This question is still nagging at me this evening...

Until I know that there exists a viable right-wing power in Israeli politics I cannot join in openly knocking Bibi. Not because I think he is the best thing since sliced bread, but rather because of the alternative. While I understand KWRBT's explanation I do not fully agree that our knocking of Bibi publicly is seen in a different way than the lefts knocking him. A vast amount of 'low information people' exist who see Bibi as the sucker of childrens blood, the most evil sutton incarnate. When these low information people see our bashing of Bibi it only fuels the anti-Israel sentiment. These are just my opinions and maybe I am missing something.

What we say between Jews is one thing. But things said openly in public, one Jew about another, especially things which can be taken out of context and used against Israel is another thing. I spend a lot of time reading web news sites and believe me there is still a lot of open Jew hatred going on in the talk-backs out there.

I understand that Bennet and Feiglin are still possible right-wing champions but a lot of time and effort needs to be expended to get the popularity of their positions to increase. Of course we all hope and pray that Chaim and his associates would be permitted to form a party in Israel, but still this seems like a far off dream at this time.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

This question is still nagging at me this evening...

Until I know that there exists a viable right-wing power in Israeli politics I cannot join in openly knocking Bibi. Not because I think he is the best thing since sliced bread, but rather because of the alternative. While I understand KWRBT's explanation I do not fully agree that our knocking of Bibi publicly is seen in a different way than the lefts knocking him. A vast amount of 'low information people' exist who see Bibi as the sucker of childrens blood, the most evil sutton incarnate. When these low information people see our bashing of Bibi it only fuels the anti-Israel sentiment. These are just my opinions and maybe I am missing something.

What we say between Jews is one thing. But things said openly in public, one Jew about another, especially things which can be taken out of context and used against Israel is another thing. I spend a lot of time reading web news sites and believe me there is still a lot of open Jew hatred going on in the talk-backs out there.

I understand that Bennet and Feiglin are still possible right-wing champions but a lot of time and effort needs to be expended to get the popularity of their positions to increase. Of course we all hope and pray that Chaim and his associates would be permitted to form a party in Israel, but still this seems like a far off dream at this time.

If American Jews had any self-respect they'd get the message that Lewinsky is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He might as well do what he wants, since he isn't going to make any friends anyway. If people see him as some kind of answer, there will never be any pressure to create a real political alternative to him.

[muman613]

If American Jews had any self-respect they'd get the message that Lewinsky is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He might as well do what he wants, since he isn't going to make any friends anyway. If people see him as some kind of answer, there will never be any pressure to create a real political alternative to him.

Even my 'right-wing' friends who agree with me concerning the situation (and they know I am an open Kahanist) praised Bibi over Passover. I did not want to have any arguments with my congregation so I did not debate them. But I have said to some of them in the past that Bibi is not a real right-wing politician (and some even nodded in agreement to that). But without a real alternative I do not want to stir things up more than I already have.

[muman613]

Let the Latma Bibi-Bashing begin...

[Zelhar]

Bibi pretended to be right winger for a couple of months to win the elections, as soon as he did he u-turned. He deserves contempt and condemnation. It's not that I bought into his pretending but in my opinion he is still less disastrous then the alternative of a and Arab backed Labor coalition that would function for all intense and purposes as a foreign installed regime.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Lewinsky is a joke of a leader. He wants to be Israel's Putin but will only ever be Hussein's kurva.

That being said, the fact is that if he truly went far to the right and meant it (i.e. started expelling Arabs left and right, started executing terrorists, cut off their food and water and electricity) it would generate mass outrage by the bleeding-heart, Hellenized majority of Israel and he really would be in a world of trouble. Still, that doesn't excuse him being a kurva.

Not really.   When he threatened the arabs would take over Israel, there was a massive increase in voter turnout.   When he said no to a fakestine state, he got elected with overwhelming 30 seats.  The evidence is against your view.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This question is still nagging at me this evening...

Until I know that there exists a viable right-wing power in Israeli politics I cannot join in openly knocking Bibi. Not because I think he is the best thing since sliced bread, but rather because of the alternative. While I understand KWRBT's explanation I do not fully agree that our knocking of Bibi publicly is seen in a different way than the lefts knocking him. A vast amount of 'low information people' exist who see Bibi as the sucker of childrens blood, the most evil sutton incarnate. When these low information people see our bashing of Bibi it only fuels the anti-Israel sentiment. These are just my opinions and maybe I am missing something.

What we say between Jews is one thing. But things said openly in public, one Jew about another, especially things which can be taken out of context and used against Israel is another thing. I spend a lot of time reading web news sites and believe me there is still a lot of open Jew hatred going on in the talk-backs out there.

I understand that Bennet and Feiglin are still possible right-wing champions but a lot of time and effort needs to be expended to get the popularity of their positions to increase. Of course we all hope and pray that Chaim and his associates would be permitted to form a party in Israel, but still this seems like a far off dream at this time.

I don't quite understand you.  We are not in the business of bashing and knocking.  A policy is either good for the Jewish people or bad.   Let's just be honest about policy and actions (which do not equal campaign promises).  Bibi decided against striking iran last year!

[muman613]

I don't quite understand you.  We are not in the business of bashing and knocking.  A policy is either good for the Jewish people or bad.   Let's just be honest about policy and actions (which do not equal campaign promises).  Bibi decided against striking iran last year!

I am just looking for what we say the alternative is. Being against Bibi is one thing, being for something is another...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Not really.   When he threatened the arabs would take over Israel, there was a massive increase in voter turnout.   When he said no to a fakestine state, he got elected with overwhelming 30 seats.  The evidence is against your view.

Those are gestures though, not real action.

[muman613]

KWRBT is correct. It shows that the majority of Israeli's do want a more right-wing leader...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I am just looking for what we say the alternative is. Being against Bibi is one thing, being for something is another...

Again, it is not personal.  It is not about the person.  We are not fans of a sports team cheering for a banner.  Blind party loyalty and personality cults are for simpletons, not us.

The alternative to doing the wrong thing is doing the right thing.  Why must there be some hero to point to if we know the person in charge isn't doing the rright thing in so many areas (building freezes, terrorist releases, "negotiation" over a fakestine state, promoting the idea that a supposed "good deal" could stop Iran because he is afraid to strike them etc)?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Those are gestures though, not real action.

Not my point.

If he took real actions, the media would lose its marbles but the people would love it.  That contradicts what you claimed.

[edu]

Except for his pogrom against good Jews at Amona, the Prime Minister who has done the least damage to Israel since the Oslo-Criminal Rabin was elected was Ehud Olmert.
Not that Olmert didn't have intentions to do a lot of evil things, but that's just the way everything worked out.
Sometimes a government run by the phoney right is worse than the open left and sometimes the opposite is true.

It is our job to promote the ideas that will actually work to save Israel in the long-run.

[muman613]

Except for his pogrom against good Jews at Amona, the Prime Minister who has done the least damage to Israel since the Oslo-Criminal Rabin was elected was Ehud Olmert.
Not that Olmert didn't have intentions to do a lot of evil things, but that's just the way everything worked out.
Sometimes a government run by the phoney right is worse than the open left and sometimes the opposite is true.

It is our job to promote the ideas that will actually work to save Israel in the long-run.

I am aware of this. Still I am hoping that someone has thought about how we can move to the right without a real right wing to support.