Author Topic: A great history book that might put this mess to bed about Nazi's in Germany... (Read 5935 times)

raiseyourfist · « **on:** August 29, 2007, 11:07:32 PM »

HAS ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY READ ANY NON-BIASED MATERIAL ON THE THIRD REICH... IF YOUR INTERESTED I SUGGEST:

YOU TO READ RICHARD EVANS called Rise and Fall of the Third Reich..

He has also done several others which i have read and they are all top notch...

He tells facts about what really happened during this misinterpreted period...

he discusses different opinions by different groups e.g the Communists, democrat and Nazi parties with the use of Citations it is clear what he say's is true...

He mentions that:

The nazis tried to rig the elections
Put other political leaders in concentration camps. e.g. Communists

And gave rise to other untold issues which showed that Hitler was an outright dictator and how he persued people's interest such as young Germans because they were easily brainwashed through the depression...

I SUGGEST YOU TO READ THE BOOK BECAUSE IT WILL PUT THE LIE TO MOST OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING:

Xgamer · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:33:47 PM »

German-bashing should result in an immedient ban, i explained so in the last thread.

EagleEye · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:39:00 PM »

I was going to ask this in the ask jtf as Lisa suggested, but now that I have a thread, I will ask you, as I do not wish to impolitely put Chaim on the spot.

How much truth is there to the idea that at least a certain amount of Germans were under the influence of German propaganda, and therefore not active parts of the machine itself? Was it a matter of too many people being weak, and afraid to stand up, or was it a matter of Hitler having SUPPORT from the majority of the population? Majority support is not required to run a dictatorship if team-work is utilized by the people in power. Once in power, the dictator uses propaganda and brainwashes his subjects. The Bolsheviks certainly took power in Russia without majority support. Did Hitler simply outmaneuver his opponents and use underhand tactics to gain power, or did the people freely support him, in such a way that he did not have to use any deception? Would the people have supported him, if they didn't fear for their own lives? It's possible to create a climate of fear in which people won't speak up, and it's possible for many people to simply be apolitical. Of course a certain amount would have, but I'm asking about the majority.

My personal take is that Hitler had about 40% support, and muscled his way into power, systematically eliminating dissidents, and forcing many Germans to follow him. Is this view wrong?

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:40:57 PM »

It's wrong because it flies in the face of the facts.

EagleEye · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2007, 11:45:02 PM »

Are you suggesting that Hitler's rise to power is no different than Bill Clinton's or George Bush's? Simply they were elected, the people supported them, and that was that?

I have to find that a little bit ridiculous. Surely Hitler used totalitarian tactics on his own German people.

EagleEye · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:06:17 AM »

And my view is that the German nation was a threat to the world, and had to be taken out.

Hitler simply controlled the media, the police force, the government and all of Germany. He did this by appointing nazis into important economic, military, and political positions. He banned opposition parties. Clearly he had enough support to do this, but this simply takes a dedicated group of followers, and doesn't necessarily mean there was not opposition.

Hitler basically gained his power by declaring martial law. He justified it by burning down the building, as suggested in the original post.

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:08:37 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 29, 2007, 11:33:47 PM

German-bashing should result in an immedient ban, i explained so in the last thread.

If you are jewish, which i don't know you are i would definitely accuse you of being a self hater if you plan to defend the German Nazi's of either back 60 years ago or today...... People on this forum should be free to attack the people who massacred 11 million innocent people...

Like i said earlier almost all Germans are evil because they did nothing to stop Hitler even when he was murdering Jews gypsies and other groups....

They are the worst people imaginable and if you want to support these people i suggest you leave this forum because not only what you say doesn't make sense but you are going to cop a lot of slack if you plan to defend these abode of the damned

newman · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:13:06 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 29, 2007, 11:33:47 PM

German-bashing should result in an immedient ban, i explained so in the last thread.

Oh yeah?..........

germans are Jew-hating, scheiser movie-watching, nazi animals!

How's that?

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:14:02 AM »

Quote from: EagleEye on August 29, 2007, 11:45:02 PM

Are you suggesting that Hitler's rise to power is no different than Bill Clinton's or George Bush's? Simply they were elected, the people supported them, and that was that?

I have to find that a little bit ridiculous. Surely Hitler used totalitarian tactics on his own German people.

Hitler rigged the elections... he tried to intimdate people by having SS guards standing outside the voting hall...

He then used his power to become consol for life and made himself a G-d amongst the Evil brainwashed Germans..

People were threatened by him and that is not just my interpretation... i think history speaks for itself

Xgamer · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM »

Hitler was a hero to the people at the time. This is why: The current german government was corrupt enough.

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

EagleEye · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:31:57 AM »

The nazis represented the lowest and most disgusting side of human nature. They were 100% Machiavellian in their rule. That everyone should agree on. I'm simply being careful to not overgeneralize the situation.

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:32:20 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM

Hitler was a hero to the people at the time. This is why: The current german government was corrupt enough.

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

What so your saying that we should embrace Hitler as a hero...

First of all Hitler was a disaster to Germany...

HE CRIPPLED GERMANY AND THEY WERE WORSE OFF AFTER THE WAR THAN THE WORST TIME IN THE DEPRESSION

HE WAS NOT A HERO EVEN TO THE MOST EVIL PEOPLE HE BETRAYED THEM

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:34:01 AM »

GERMANY WAS DIVIDED FOR ALMOST 50 UNDER THE IRON CURTIN BECAUSE OF HITLER'S ANTICS

Believe me he was a DISASTER

Xgamer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:40:04 AM »

Quote from: raiseyourfist on August 30, 2007, 12:32:20 AM

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM
Hitler was a hero to the people at the time. This is why: The current german government was corrupt enough.

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

What so your saying that we should embrace Hitler as a hero...

First of all Hitler was a disaster to Germany...

HE CRIPPLED GERMANY AND THEY WERE WORSE OFF AFTER THE WAR THAN THE WORST TIME IN THE DEPRESSION

HE WAS NOT A HERO EVEN TO THE MOST EVIL PEOPLE HE BETRAYED THEM

First of all:

The German government before Hitler started WORLD WAR 1. Hitler was viewed as a hero of the german people is what I said. I was explingn why germans were pro-hitler, which is what the threads about. I never said I was pro-hitler, I was explaining why the germans seemd to be 100% for him.

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:44:48 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:40:04 AM

Quote from: raiseyourfist on August 30, 2007, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM
Hitler was a hero to the people at the time. This is why: The current german government was corrupt enough.

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

What so your saying that we should embrace Hitler as a hero...

First of all Hitler was a disaster to Germany...

HE CRIPPLED GERMANY AND THEY WERE WORSE OFF AFTER THE WAR THAN THE WORST TIME IN THE DEPRESSION

HE WAS NOT A HERO EVEN TO THE MOST EVIL PEOPLE HE BETRAYED THEM

First of all:

The German government before Hitler started WORLD WAR 1. Hitler was viewed as a hero of the german people is what I said. I was explingn why germans were pro-hitler, which is what the threads about. I never said I was pro-hitler, I was explaining why the germans seemd to be 100% for him.

It wont do you any good because we all agree on this forum... ESPECIALLY CHAIM.. that the German people are evil

ILL AGREE Hilter looked like he was getting the German people out of the depression by giving the people of Germany work when there was an unemployment of over 6 million in 1933 when he took power

HE betrayed them and there is nothing wrong with me saying that they were brainwashed corrupted and ended up being betrayed by the furer who promised them everything and gave them NOTHING.. in the end he was a disaster

EagleEye · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:50:32 AM »

I'm simply trying to make a case that one can be anti-nazi without being anti-german. I'm definitely anti-nazi.

I'm not against Germans for being German, I'm simply against the past actions of many Germans.

Xgamer · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2007, 12:57:39 AM »

raiseyourfist:

Once again, Germany was for a long time a great nation. The Germanic race defeated even Rome, something that no one else did. They ruled Spain (Visigoths), France (Franks), Brittania (Angles, Saxons, Jutes), Italy (Lombards), and I could go on. The Germanics were the largest immigration wave to America and are the largest populated in the USA. Which is why Germany cannot be bashed. And before anyone says anything, I do not have any recent German ancestry. I say recent because just about all of Europe are descendents of the Germanic people.

Even the Celts such as the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, and Bretons are partly descendents of Scandinavian Germanic peoples.

Quote

German people are evil

We as a forum cannot bash german people.

newman · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:00:04 AM »

Quote from: newman on August 30, 2007, 12:13:06 AM

Oh yeah?..........

germans are Jew-hating, scheiser movie-watching, nazi animals!

How's that?

ONE MO' TIME.

EagleEye · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:05:09 AM »

I bash Germans as a group. But I don't bash Germans simply because they are German.

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:08:06 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:57:39 AM

raiseyourfist:

Once again, Germany was for a long time a great nation. The Germanic race defeated even Rome, something that no one else did. They ruled Spain (Visigoths), France (Franks), Brittania (Angles, Saxons, Jutes), Italy (Lombards), and I could go on. The Germanics were the largest immigration wave to America and are the largest populated in the USA. Which is why Germany cannot be bashed. And before anyone says anything, I do not have any recent German ancestry. I say recent because just about all of Europe are descendents of the Germanic people.

Even the Celts such as the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, and Bretons are partly descendents of Scandinavian Germanic peoples.

Quote
German people are evil

We as a forum cannot bash german people.

What are you trying to say then... the german people were a strong nation for hundreds of years ... yeh thats indisputable.. Hitler wanted to restore germany to their former greatness... so is that

Hitler was not a hero or even seen as such before 1933 to even the most evil people and after the WW2 it proved that he was an inevitable disaster and during the war he was evil and before 1933 he was seen as an extremest with no practical ideas and no one really took him seriously

So he diceded to use violence and threatened people to join... and those who opposed him wound up being attacked... and the weak German people that they are went along with him...

IS THAT HEROIC.... NOT by any stretch of the imagination

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:10:03 AM »

AND BY THE WAY WE ARE REQUIRED TO HATE THE ENEMY... THAT BEING GERMANY...

THOSE WHO ARE KIND TO THE CRUEL END UP BEING CRUEL TO THE KIND

EagleEye · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:11:12 AM »

You mean northern europe.

Clearly Slavs and Mediterraneans DO NOT descend from Germans. Its only Nordics who do.

raiseyourfist · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:12:20 AM »

Egle eye has a good point there

Ultra Requete · « **Reply #23 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:54:01 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:40:04 AM

Quote from: raiseyourfist on August 30, 2007, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM
Hitler was a hero to the people at the time. This is why: The current german government was corrupt enough.

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

What so your saying that we should embrace Hitler as a hero...

First of all Hitler was a disaster to Germany...

HE CRIPPLED GERMANY AND THEY WERE WORSE OFF AFTER THE WAR THAN THE WORST TIME IN THE DEPRESSION

HE WAS NOT A HERO EVEN TO THE MOST EVIL PEOPLE HE BETRAYED THEM

First of all:

The German government before Hitler started WORLD WAR 1. Hitler was viewed as a hero of the german people is what I said. I was explingn why germans were pro-hitler, which is what the threads about. I never said I was pro-hitler, I was explaining why the germans seemd to be 100% for him.

You can blame Russian secret police "Ochrana" for WWI they directed Serbian Black Hand against Austro-Hungarian crownprince Ferdinand; Germans was only ocupied (by alies) country in which resictance movement didn't existed; when Hitler ordered them to shoot people the shot; when American ordered them to work after war they worked; and when in the future someone will order them to kill Jews and Slavs they will do this obiedently again. Frickin Robots. BTW they killed lot more than 11 milions inocent people. They were worse than Soviet animals.
And BTW they killed lot more than 11 milions people.

Lubab · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2007, 06:38:29 AM »

Quote from: Xgamer on August 30, 2007, 12:27:45 AM

We can't think of Hitler's elections as a battle between good and evil

What the heck is that supposed to mean!? I have to wake up and see this complete slap in the face to all those who perished in the holocoust! Hitler YMS and his election was evil incarnate!

You're walking on very think ice here my friend. You're either a Nazi yourself or completely brainwashed to believe what the historical revisionists want you to believe about Germany during Hiter YMS's rise too power.

Either way, I think a ban is in order if this continues, and maybe even if it doesn't.