The Karaite Judaism

[jsullivan]

The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.

In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.

[newman]

The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.

In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.

Well that's herasy, pure & simple.

Do the rest of them still consider the rapist pig Mo' a 'prophet' today?

[Dexter]

lol, I think karaite comes from the word Karet- which means Cut Off.

lol in hebrew their name is Kara'im 
And I didn't know so many people hate us .
Goodbye .

[newman]

lol, I think karaite comes from the word Karet- which means Cut Off.

lol in hebrew their name is Kara'im 
And I didn't know so many people hate us .
Goodbye .

Dexter,

Please don't go anywhere or do anything hastey.

Why not talk to Lubab and Chaim privately and think things over?

There's no rush, is there?

[Dexter]

The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was placed on trial in Baghdad 1200 years ago by the Islamic Caliph. To get himself acquitted, he called Mohammed a "prophet", praised Islam and Muslims, and condemned the Rabbis and the Talmud.

In exchange, the Muslim Caliph recognized and helped promote the Karaites. Because the Muslims saw this as a way to spiritually destroy the Jews.

Anan Ben David wasn't the founder of the Karaites, the Karaites were existed much befor Anan Ben David was even born . And they DON'T believe in mohammed and yeshu .

[Dexter]

Chaim just did a special Hebrew video about this subject to try to save Dexter from this evil treasonous cult.

Apparently, the video did no good as Dexter is continuing to preach heresy.

The founder of the Karaites, Anan Ben David, was a traitor Jew who proclaimed that Mohammed, the founder of Nazi Islam, was a "prophet"!

The Karaites are NOT Jews. They have created their own new religious cult.

Any Jew who denies the Oral Law is denying the entire Torah.

New Yorker, for your information, the Nazis did not kill the Karaites because they understood that they are NOT Jews.

We are not going to tolerate prosletyzing on this forum for a cult whose founder called Mohammed a "prophet".

Dexter, everyone on the Hebrew forum tried to convince you that this is insane and the argument went on for days. Thank G-d on our Hebrew forum, no one else is attracted to this evil cult. But here on the English forum, I see that some people who are uninformed might be misled by this, and we will not allow this to continue.

Also, I have changed the title of this thread. You are calling this cult "Judaism" in the title. That is a lie.

I don't preach !!

[Dexter]

One more thing.

Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.

There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.

This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.

That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.

They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.

Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.

Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??

[Dexter]

And Anan Ben David never say he thinks that yeshu and muhammad are prophets, this is a complete lie !

[Lubab]

One more thing.

Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.

There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.

This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.

That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.

They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.

Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.

Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??

Well since you only believe in the Written Torah it can mean whateve you want right?
There is no reason to say that the letters there are even Hebrew letters. The Written Torah doesn't tell you that it's Hebrew. It doesn't tell you how to pronounce any of the letters or what vowels to use.

We only know all that from Oral tradition.

[Lubab]

Even if you only want to go by the Written Torah you still must believe in the oral Torah because the written Torah tells you that there are explanations that G-d gave aside from what is written in the Torah.


For instance, when it comes to ritual slaughter G-d says:
"You shall slaughter your cattle... as I have commanded you"

(Deut. 12:21).


Now Dexter, please tell me where in the written Torah hyou will find G-d's explanations as to HOW to fulfill this commandment.

G-d says do it "as I commanded you". So how do we do it. Where to we find His explanation. It's not anywhere in the Written Torah. So where is it?

Answer: Only in the Oral Torah.

[Lubab]

One more thing.

Dexter is completely right when he says that you will not find written evidence of the oral tradition of how tefillin should look in between the time of the giving of the Torah and the writing of the Mishna.

There is a very good reason for this. Because it was an ORAL TRADITION. Nobody was allowed to write the oral tradition down. It was not meant to be written down at all.

This oral tradition was passed down in a perfect chain of 40 generations from Moses to Yehoshua and so on through the greatest Torah scholars and Tzaddikim of each generation.

That is until Rabbi Judah the Prince, the giant of his generation decided that if this continues in an oral chain, with the weakening of the minds of the new generations it might start to be distorted. That's why he wrote it down as the Mishna. And there is where you'll see the oral tradition exactly as it was handed down through the 40 genarations. In the Rambam's Mishne Torah you can see exactly who were transmitters of the Mesorah (oral tradition) over those 40 generations.

They were all incredible Torah giants. Not ever to even be spoken in the same breathe as the Kararite traitor-ignoramuses.

Dexter, it's Elul now. It's a good time to rededicate yourself to the entire Torah and reclaim your share in the world to come.

Can't you understand that the verses about the "tphilin" are a COMPLETE METAPHOR ??

Maybe mezuzah is a metaphor, and kosher and shabbat-maybe do not murder is also a metahpor-who knows we can ascribe any meaning we want in the wacky world of Kararite fun.

Oh it's so fun to able to make up things as you go along. This way we can get rid of all the commandments! Yay! We can just say their all metaphorical and we can do whatever we want! Yay again!

Since there's no vowels, the Torah can have the meaning WE want to ascribe to it.

Oh it's so good to be a Kararite cultist.

[mord]

Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat

[HiWarp]

Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat

I don't see the relevance of eating milk with meat to the practice of a martial art.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Lubab]

Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat

Absolutely. If you are a Kararite you can do what you want, when you want because you get to ascribe the meaning to each verse that YOU want.

If you don't like something. Say it's a metahpor. A metaphor for what? You can choose that too.

The written Torah doesn't say what's a metaphor and what's not. It doesn't tell you how to observe these laws, so it's up to you or your local Kararite cultist leader. Whichever you prefer.

I think I"ll start a Kararite halacha class.

[mord]

Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat

Absolutely. If you are a Kararite you can do what you want, when you want because you get to ascribe the meaning to each verse that YOU want.

If you don't like something. Say it's a metahpor. A metaphor for what? You can choose that too.

For example the can'nt boil a calf in it's mothers milk but they can drink milk on the side

[Lubab]

Exactly. And you it doesn't even say milk. It says Chet Lamed Vet, which I say has the vowels which make it Chaylev not Chalav. So it really means you can't boil it in the mother's FAT. FAT not milk.

And besides that's a metaphor too.

[mord]

Exactly. And you it doesn't even say milk. It says Chet Lamed Vet, which I say has the vowels which make it Chaylev not Chalav. So it really means you can't boil it in the mother's FAT. FAT not milk.

And besides that's a metaphor too.

true thats what someone told me about karaites i know one but with him it makesno difference since he's not religious so he just does'nt do anything

[New Yorker]

"rabbis placed an injunction against it in case people got beef mixed up with poultry. "


Yeah, the rules with those kinds of rationalizations behind it seems overly cautious, or even OCD to me.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Can practitoners of Karate eat milk with meat

They eat milk with poultry because birds are not the kid of the mother who has milk. Rabbinic Jews could also once do that but the rabbis placed an injunction against it in case people got beef mixed up with poultry.

It was much more than that. ITs not being ocd, the Rabbis with their great wisdom, made rules, and also brought down rules from tradition, so when it literally says in the Written Torah of not having cows meat with milk together it could be that it also included in tradition of not chicken, but it also can be a gazera (a decree) by the Rabbanim ZL, who said it has to be that way not to stumble and G-d forbid mix milk with meat. -a Rabbinic decree expecially made by the Sanhedrin is allmost as the same as a straight Torah law.

[New Yorker]

Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.     

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.     

go to Kolyakov.org - a very great site, with many lectures, if you need more sites, holler.

[New Yorker]

Interesting. I've learned a lot about the fundamentals of Judaism in the last two days that I didn't know before. I had no knowledge that there was an Oral tradition, really, you might find it shocking but there's a whole lot of Jews out there just like me with almost zero education on their own religion, I thought to be a Jew, it was simply follow the Torah, keep the sabbath, and keep kosher, and that was it. Didn't know about the other things involved.     

go to Kolyakov.org - a very great site, with many lectures, if you need more sites, holler.

Thanks, good website. I'm enjoying the video lectures.

[TorahZionist]

Rational Approach to the Divinity of the Oral Tradition by Rabbi Lawrence Keleman:
Low Bandwidth: http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rational_Approach_Divinity_Oral_Tradition.mp3
High Bandwidth: http://www.simpletoremember.com/audio/Rational_Approach_Divinity_Oral_Tradition-B.mp3