Can't we dismiss some trolls and useless and annoying?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

Not defending him or anything but wishing cancer on anyone isn't funny.

Agreed!

[Israel Chai]

Not defending him or anything but wishing cancer on anyone isn't funny.

I wasn't trying to be funny. Delete the threads, or ban the troll.

Agreed!

EPHY!!!!!!! Long time no see!! Why are you never here?

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I wasn't trying to be funny. Delete the threads, or ban the troll.

EPHY!!!!!!! Long time no see!! Why are you never here?

Just been hanging out in my own little noachide world fighting with people over politics.

[edu]

Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,

There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is  absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:

Shalom

It is well known that with relation to all Tora related issues, a person is not required to obey his/her parents if their wishes cannot be reconciled with the Tora, or where their wishes prevent the child from acting properly. One example is the choosing of a spouse; if one is sure that this is the right person, one should ignore one's parents. The situation you mention is similar; the demand is unreasonable and runs contrary to the Tora. A parent cannot make such a demand.

[Israel Chai]

Just been hanging out in my own little noachide world fighting with people over politics.

Add me on fb dude. msg me. My accounts go down sometimes, so leave me here and I'll re add you.

There are only Drumph supporters to debate with now, and it's a nightmare. I need sane and not depraved people to talk to there.

[Israel Chai]

Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,

There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is  absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:

OMG. You know him? That Rav is a hero.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

OMG. You know him? That Rav is a hero.

He is great.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons.  One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.

[Israel Chai]

I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons.  One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.

Every comment you make to him is proof that he's really a martyr to him. At least he won't be here to cry about it and how unfairly we treated his friend who posts Nazi propaganda. Or waste everyone's time. Or make the forum look bad. He sends me private messages, really dude, don't go down that road, waste of time.

 Online Islam sucks!

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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 18, 2016, 03:14:46 AM »

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Stfu, you evil slime! You don't talk about my late grandfather this way. If you hold anything against me personally, tell it to me. Do not insult my grandfather. You don't know what it's like to lose both grandfathers a year apart distance.
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Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 23, 2016, 11:55:01 PM »
« You have forwarded or responded to this message. »

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And then tell me if I am a fraud for what I've said in the past:

jewishbible.blogspot.com/2005/10/ten-curses-of-eve-unpublishable.html
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Re: Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 24, 2016, 05:04:59 AM »
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I don't know anything about Michael Lerner or whoever the author of that blog is, but the fact that he quotes actual rabbinic sources doesn't bother you?
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Re: Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 25, 2016, 01:04:20 AM »
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The guy who runs this blog is Berel Dov Lerner, not Michael Lerner. And he brings up actual rabbinic sources that are also frequently cited in other critical works. Have you even checked the link that I sent you?
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 03:37:37 PM »

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I would ask you to remove your insulting posts. I removed my previous threads and apologized. So please stop. You're the one who's hurting the forum now, not me.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 04:20:04 PM »

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I'm recanting what I've said before, but I'm going to restart the thread because I want to have serious discussions, not battlefield.

Either participate or not, but don't make personal insults. Please.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 05:04:42 PM »

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I apologize if I did something wrong, by please do not insult me. Let's have a serious discussion.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 02, 2016, 10:09:42 PM »

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I told you to stop.


(he sent  "I told you to stop" after I made this thread)

[Zelhar]

I agree with that too.

I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons.  One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.

[Rational Jew]

You said Islam treats women better than Judaism yet in the Muslim world, they are treated like cattle. Keep posting this crap and you're gone.

Where did I say this? How about both of them have problems in their own ways when it comes to women?

Sounds like Mohammed got his dictation confused. He told the ghostwriter, Then your mother Then your mother.   This illiterate clown was on acid.   Why because this sentence says mother first you think that means Islam treats mothers well?   Lying sack of _____.

Islamic sharia law is derived from koran and hadiths. This hadith is sahih which means that it's authenticity is strong and serves as basis for sharia.
http://www.al-islam.org/islamic-family-life-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/parents-and-children#superiority-mothers-rights
http://www.islamicity.org/8603/the-status-of-parents-in-islam/

This is just pathetic.   All you said was "doesn't honor motherhood" - a retarded claim.  There is no source that says such a thing so stop pretending there is.     Once again you've never spent time with people who practice the religion, you clearly don't practice yourself, so you have no idea how Judaism values motherhood and you have no sources.   I figured a white knight feminist like you would be angry at how much Judaism values mothers having many children and taking care of them.    But you claim the opposite and get angry about something that isn't even true.

What about the sources that say son must obey father if he forbids him to say kaddish for his deceased mother "because father's honor comes first"? What about classical Jewish literature regarding pregnancy and birth of a baby as a "curse" and a "punishment"? Yes, right. Judaism honors motherhood so greatly that it made father superior to mother and even allowed father to forbid his son from commemorating his dead mother.

So the fact that the rabbis even debate a question, which cannot be answered without debating it, is to you "disgusting."      Some say one way, some say the other way. 

Why should it be debatable whether or not father can prevent his son from saying kaddish for his mother? That's his mother, not some distant relative or an outsider. Why is it not debatable whether mother can prevent her son from saying kaddish for his father?

For those who are interested in truth (meaning not the Troll) the Sages derive from a Biblical verse that a wife's obligation to honor her husband is greater than her obligation to honor her parents.
When honoring her father (or mother) conflicts with honoring the husband, the husband's honor wins out.
This is how the Sages understand the Biblical Text.
And if this irks the feathers of Feminazis I don't give a hoot.

Another man-made law enacted by rabbis to remind women they're "property of husband".

As far as the kaddish question is concerned it is clear to me, that my rabbis hold that the son could say Kaddish for his mother, despite the objections of the father.
I know this because in more extreme cases they have sided with the child who wanted to go against the wishes of his parents.

Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,

There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is  absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:

Great! You have one rabbi who understands this ruling is immoral and regards saying kaddish as obligatory.
But, what about all those rabbis that say the opposite? What about that halacha by Rav Ovadia Yosef that I posted earlier where he explicitly stated that son must adhere to father's wish if father doesn't want him to say prayer for his mother? Wasn't Ovadia Yosef a Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel?

[Rational Jew]

For those who think I'm an "antisemite/radical feminist/missie troll", what are your arguments for that? Prove that I'm a "missionary" or a "troll"? I just pointed out that Judaism has problems (like any other religion on the planet). There are no perfect religions and never were. Judaism has problems with women and it's a FACT. It is not just Islam. Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently. Mother's status is inferior to father's. These laws don't even exist in islam.

If you really care about Judaism then work to improve it. No one talks about bashing Torah. There are dozens of posts attacking Islam and pretty much every other religion for their evil laws, but when someone points at some evil laws in Judaism, that person is immediately labeled as "nazi", "troll", "missionary", or any other absurd term. 

The problem is that Judaism denies married women independent entity. Married women are treated as minors under halacha.

Judaism may not be the worst religion, but it does have problems like any other religion. Stop pretending all religions are moral.

[Israel Chai]

"Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently"

You're a lying piece of trash. Do you wake up every day and decide the best thing you can do is repeat that same lie for us to disprove? What a useless life you have.

[Rational Jew]

"Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently"

You're a lying piece of trash. Do you wake up every day and decide the best thing you can do is repeat that same lie for us to disprove? What a useless life you have.

I'm sure either kahaneloyalist or edu would only confirm what I said.

[edu]

I have the ability to give a point by point rebuttal to the troll. But I have a better idea.
For those serious people who are really interested in doing G-d's will and are confused by the distortions brought up by the troll, try contacting Rabbi Bar Chaim.
Probably on these type of issues Machon Meir ( http://www.english.machonmeir.net/ ) is also okay.
For the troll who is not interested in G-d's will, go to the Muslim sites and talk there.

[Rational Jew]

I have the ability to give a point by point rebuttal to the troll. But I have a better idea.
For those serious people who are really interested in doing G-d's will and are confused by the distortions brought up by the troll, try contacting Rabbi Bar Chaim.
Probably on these type of issues Machon Meir ( http://www.english.machonmeir.net/ ) is also okay.
For the troll who is not interested in G-d's will, go to the Muslim sites and talk there.

I'm not a troll, and you're coward.

I'm not responding to this thread anymore. Mods, lock this thread.

For further discussion, refer to this thread http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I'm not a troll, and you're coward.

I'm not responding to this thread anymore. Mods, lock this thread.

For further discussion, refer to this thread http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html

Lol this is just precious.  You're not going to tell the mods what to do.  It was you who started the propaganda and trollish threads and after you drop in some last jabs at people in a response thread, now it should be locked so your missionary propaganda stands as the last word?  Man your games are unbelievably transparent, you insult the reader's intelligence.

No one is locking this garbage thread.

[Israel Chai]

The sniveling little troll just called edu a coward. Can it go away, please?

[Rational Jew]

Lol this is just precious.  You're not going to tell the mods what to do.  It was you who started the propaganda and trollish threads and after you drop in some last jabs at people in a response thread, now it should be locked so your missionary propaganda stands as the last word?  Man your games are unbelievably transparent, you insult the reader's intelligence.

No one is locking this garbage thread.

I didn't start this thread. I started a specific thread and wanted to have all discussions there. What propaganda? That Halacha has laws that are repressive to women? That married woman is forbidden to give charity or sell property without husband's consent? That father is superior to mother?

Facts are not propaganda. http://www.thehalachacenter.org/journal-links/5775/shemos/vayakhel-pekudei/married-women-and-tzedaka.php

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I didn't start this thread. I started a specific thread and wanted to have all discussions there. What propaganda? That Halacha has laws that are repressive to women? That married woman is forbidden to give charity or sell property without husband's consent? That father is superior to mother?

Facts are not propaganda. http://www.thehalachacenter.org/journal-links/5775/shemos/vayakhel-pekudei/married-women-and-tzedaka.php

Do you need a tissue?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question


Next you will ask forum members if they stopped beating their wife.

[Rational Jew]

Do you need a tissue?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question


Next you will ask forum members if they stopped beating their wife.

Aren't you and your buddy lkz tired of waging wars against me? What's so unjustified about my questions? It is the laws that treat married woman as husband's possession that are unjustified. 

[nessuno]

Islam Sucks!, what are you talking about?
Where are the Jewish women that are treated like possessions?
I don't know one.
If there are some.  They may have chosen to follow that lifestyle.
In almost every case, the Jewish women I know are educated and independent women.
Some wear the pants in their house.  They are in control.  In fact, in todays society in general, women seem better protected by the law.
It is quite obvious that you are trying to be antagonistic.
Why?
In answer to the thread...
If you want to dismiss trolls as useless and annoying.  Stop going around in circles with them.

[Israel Chai]

Islam Sucks!, what are you talking about?
Where are the Jewish women that are treated like possessions?
I don't know one.
If there are some.  They may have chosen to follow that lifestyle.
In almost every case, the Jewish women I know are educated and independent women.
Some wear the pants in their house.  They are in control.  In fact, in todays society in general, women seem better protected by the law.
It is quite obvious that you are trying to be antagonistic.
Why?
In answer to the thread...
If you want to dismiss trolls as useless and annoying.  Stop going around in circles with them.

The troll goes around in circles. I don't bother responding to his same lies over and over again, I just call him filth and tell him to get cancer. Edu tried and he called him a coward, and kept believing his made-up interpretation.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Aren't you and your buddy lkz tired of waging wars against me? What's so unjustified about my questions? It is the laws that treat married woman as husband's possession that are unjustified.

The only war I am waging is against your lies about Judaism.

For example:

"That father is superior to mother?"

You've made this dishonest claim about Judaism over and over again, but it's still not true.   No matter how many times you tell this lie here, it's never going to become true.

[Rational Jew]

The only war I am waging is against your lies about Judaism.

For example:

You've made this dishonest claim about Judaism over and over again, but it's still not true.   No matter how many times you tell this lie here, it's never going to become true.

I'm not going to write anything anymore. I'm simply going to quote your own rabbis and let people interested in truth see for themselves what Judaism teaches:

http://www.dafyomi.co.il/erchin/halachah/er-hl-025.htm
Shevus Yakov (2:94): Rashi in Sotah supports the Rema. The Acharonim agree. A daughter's son must honor his grandfather, and all the more so a son's son, for a son stands in place of his father for everything. No one argues about this. Sotah discusses a daughter's son. We find that Shlomo did a great honor for his grandmother Rus, and put a chair for her near himself. If he were not Chayav to honor her, a king may not pardon his honor! I agree that a grandchild should say one Kaddish. Seemingly, his mother can protest. A father can protest that his son not say Kaddish for his mother, because the father's honor comes first (Darchei Moshe 376). (This is letter of the law; the custom is unlike this.) It is rare that a man's son die, and his grandson remains and his daughter-in-law protests, so there is no custom about this. The Rema said that a mother can stop her son from saying Kaddish for her parent. He would not say that she can stop him from saying Kaddish for his father's father, since one must honor his father more than his mother. We find that one does not want his wife to be disgraced (through needing to come to Beis Din) after his death (Kesuvos 74b). All the more so he does not want his father to be disgraced if his grandson will not say Kaddish for him, to fill his father' place! We force the grandson to say Kaddish according to the compromise. If the grandfather taught to him Torah, and he did not leave a son, surely the grandson says Kaddish like other Avelim.

R. Akiva Eiger (1:68): If one's mother commanded him to do something and his father protested, he may fulfill her request if refraining would cause a monetary loss, for we hold that one need not use his money for Kivud Av. Even if there will be no monetary loss, this is like divorced parents who both requested water. He may fulfill either first, for she need not honor his father. The same applies after his mother died. Death separates like divorce. Livyas Chen similarly says that one is obligated to honor his grandfather more than his father only while both are alive, for then also his father must honor his grandfather. However, the Beis Yosef (YD 376) says that if a woman commanded her son to say Kaddish for her after her death, and his father protests, Kivud Av has precedence over Kivud Em. The Noda bi'Yehudah says that honoring in life has precedence over honoring after death, even if the father died and the mother is alive. This is unlike the Beis Yosef, who gives precedence only because Kivud Av is greater. Rashi supports the Beis Yosef. He said that R. Yehoshua told the orphan 'you do not ask to apply in practice, rather, you just seek to learn.' If death is like divorce, perhaps he needed to know about a request after a parent died, and the living parent protested! Rather, it is clear that even after death, the father has precedence.

Just in case, let's compare now with this: http://www.al-islam.org/islamic-family-life-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/parents-and-children#superiority-mothers-rights

You see the paradox?
How in the world does violent and murderous religion like islam sometimes teach moral stuff? And how in the world does Judaism prefer to promote Greek/Roman views as "Halacha"? What does it say? The only thing it does say is that all religions are capable of teaching both good and evil things. That's why I no longer want to be part of Judaism. Who are we to criticize other religions when ours sometimes contains much worse teachings (this being an example)? We're all humans and we're all capable of changing systems to better standards.

That's all! You probably not going to see me here again. Everyone here hates me and wants me banned. Some even want me to die. LKZ continues to bash me even after I proposed peace. He also wished me cancer. What's the point to keep arguing with uncivilized savages like him who wish other people cancer and rejoice when their loved ones die?

Good bye!