Cutting medicaid, NIH funding, and medical research funding are all idiotic

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Whether this is republican establishment clowns like Paul Ryan behind this budget proposal, or the Trump people, it's a terrible idea that's bad for the country.   These guys are bought and paid for by corporations and their billionaire owners who want tax cuts at any cost.

[angryChineseKahanist]

Terrible. Horrible.
How did we ever do without socialism 60 years ago?
People actually work for a living back then instead of sitting around and only going out to buy junk on the first of the month?
Man, can't believe how primitive people were. Imagine, working for a living. We're progressive now.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Terrible. Horrible.
How did we ever do without socialism 60 years ago?
People actually work for a living back then instead of sitting around and only going out to buy junk on the first of the month?
Man, can't believe how primitive people were. Imagine, working for a living. We're progressive now.

How is it socialism to invest in basic medical research?   It isnt.
As for how medical insurance works, tearing down the system in the guise of being more "free market" than it is now helps no one and harms a lot.   Conceptual subservience without practical benefit except to whom?  Politicians and the insurance lobby?

[angryChineseKahanist]

Except medical research of course.  But then again, why is the government involved in medical research? Isn't that the medical/pharmaceutical industry?
These are all recent burglaries.  We didn't have such heavy taxation not that long ago.  70 years ago cities went to court to put in parking meters because it was double taxation. Today, we accept it as normal. Income tax, what's that? Before the uncivil war, the federal government had no real power. It got its money by begging the states. Today, it steals half your salary. If you were eating a sandwich and I just came up and took half of it, would you pretend you saw nothing? No, you would grab me by the throat.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Except medical research of course.  But then again, why is the government involved in medical research? Isn't that the medical/pharmaceutical industry?

Because it is good for society and leads to better health which would mean lower costs over time and better scientific understanding than competing nations which is also good.
Pharma is involved in drug development but many of those drugs come from the concepts explored by basic biology research in academic centers first which thrive on govt grants or are actual govt institutes (like NIH).  There is an ecosystem in which insights get discovered in academic research, and drug companies then attempt to *apply those insights into a workable drug (which academics usually cannot do).   Both sides of that equation are important and there is increasing pharma-academic partnership on r&d for this reason.

These are all recent burglaries.  We didn't have such heavy taxation not that long ago.  70 years ago cities went to court to put in parking meters because it was double taxation. Today, we accept it as normal. Income tax, what's that? Before the uncivil war, the federal government had no real power. It got its money by begging the states. Today, it steals half your salary. If you were eating a sandwich and I just came up and took half of it, would you pretend you saw nothing? No, you would grab me by the throat.

Bro that's important for rewriting the tax code, but that hasn't happened. As long as things are as they are currently, ripping away healthcare from people is not right.

And these budget changes are not going to make people pay less income tax over the longrun, nor probably in the shortterm, which is why it is critical what in particular they choose to cut.   Trump plans to run up the debt bigly regardless, so what's justification for cutting health spending.... to build improved roads?

[nessuno]

Because it is good for society and leads to better health which would mean lower costs over time and better scientific understanding than competing nations which is also good.
Pharma is involved in drug development but many of those drugs come from the concepts explored by basic biology research in academic centers first which thrive on govt grants or are actual govt institutes (like NIH).  There is an ecosystem in which insights get discovered in academic research, and drug companies then attempt to *apply those insights into a workable drug (which academics usually cannot do).   Both sides of that equation are important and there is increasing pharma-academic partnership on r&d for this reason.

Bro that's important for rewriting the tax code, but that hasn't happened. As long as things are as they are currently, ripping away healthcare from people is not right.

And these budget changes are not going to make people pay less income tax over the longrun, nor probably in the shortterm, which is why it is critical what in particular they choose to cut.   Trump plans to run up the debt bigly regardless, so what's justification for cutting health spending.... to build improved roads?

Which healthcare will be ripped away from people?
People are paying higher premiums and have huge deductibles.
Or they are on a plan that no provider takes.
The cost of my healthcare has more than doubled since the implementation of Obama Care. 
Healthcare is being ripped away from people who do the right thing.
It will never be ripped away from the takers.  They always get their healthcare.  They just show up at a hospital.
So, I don't think trying to fix the healthcare debacle is ripping care away.  That already happened when Obama Care was instituted.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Terrible. Horrible.
How did we ever do without socialism 60 years ago?
People actually work for a living back then instead of sitting around and only going out to buy junk on the first of the month?
Man, can't believe how primitive people were. Imagine, working for a living. We're progressive now.

 People didn't have phones and computers 60 years ago as well. What's your point?

 Notice they make cuts to everyone except old people, Corporations and the military industrial complex.

[Israel Chai]

So were you against Cruz's plan?

[angryChineseKahanist]

Because it is good for society and leads to better health which would mean lower costs over time and better scientific understanding than competing nations which is also good.
Pharma is involved in drug development but many of those drugs come from the concepts explored by basic biology research in academic centers first which thrive on govt grants or are actual govt institutes (like NIH).  There is an ecosystem in which insights get discovered in academic research, and drug companies then attempt to *apply those insights into a workable drug (which academics usually cannot do).   Both sides of that equation are important and there is increasing pharma-academic partnership on r&d for this reason.

Bro that's important for rewriting the tax code, but that hasn't happened. As long as things are as they are currently, ripping away healthcare from people is not right.

And these budget changes are not going to make people pay less income tax over the longrun, nor probably in the shortterm, which is why it is critical what in particular they choose to cut.   Trump plans to run up the debt bigly regardless, so what's justification for cutting health spending.... to build improved roads?

some of that sounds good. I just don't trust the dictators in the District of Corruption to have my DNA that's all. Of course its also true that the gigantic pharmaceutical industries aren't to be trusted either.

I don't completely disagree. I just don't want big government all over me and inside my colon that's all. And you're right, nothing is going to change much in the short time. The only way for change for the good of the people is of course the way of George Washington, revolt.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Lol you don't have to give anyone your dna.

Except your wife...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Which healthcare will be ripped away from people?
People are paying higher premiums and have huge deductibles.
Or they are on a plan that no provider takes.
The cost of my healthcare has more than doubled since the implementation of Obama Care. 
Healthcare is being ripped away from people who do the right thing.
It will never be ripped away from the takers.  They always get their healthcare.  They just show up at a hospital.
So, I don't think trying to fix the healthcare debacle is ripping care away.  That already happened when Obama Care was instituted.

Do you believe that by cutting medicaid somehow the private insurance market will suddenly become cheaper?  There's no connection there.  Large corporations dominate that market and they are beholden to their shareholders and constantly seeking to grow profits.  Raising premiums and deductibles is the way to do it.   That is also why they used to try to get out of paying for pre existing conditions  (what a scam!)... to lower costs.

Why does killing NIH research have any thing to do with people's costs going up?

[nessuno]

To me it's apples to oranges.
Did I mention that I thought medicaid cuts would lower my premiums?
Making healthcare competitive might help lower my premiums.  Eliminating fraud.  Figuring out who is actually entitled to coverage.  This might help.  Dealing with illegal immigration.  This may help.  Because...my health insurance premiums are the up front healthcare costs I pay for.  The hidden health care I pay for is the untitled that can't be turned away.

Here is an idea that seems to work.
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2017/03/08/atlasmd-founder-featured-on-fox-news-program.html

Why aren't we listening to people like this when looking at healthcare?

My taxes pay for NIH research.  The government isn't always the best administrator.  Maybe it's not research I care a lick about.  Or maybe they aren't spending my money the right way.  Maybe there needed to be some cuts.
Perhaps the NIH can fund raise.  Then I can choose to donate to the cause of my choice.  Maybe someone does better research than the government.
People will donate to medical research.  If they can donate to the creation of the man romper...they will donate to anything.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

To me it's apples to oranges.
Did I mention that I thought medicaid cuts would lower my premiums?


Making healthcare competitive might help lower my premiums.  Eliminating fraud.  Figuring out who is actually entitled to coverage.  This might help.  Dealing with illegal immigration.  This may help.

All great ideas but how are any of hem addressed by this budget plan?

Immigration is indeed a huge prpblem compounding the public markets.  Why is it the cuts get dictated in, yet Mr trump has yet to do a damn thing about building a wall or fixing immigration?   So if we cut off funding somehow costs for patients will go down, and just by saying I am against illegals and the extra costs they bring suddenly the problem is fixed?

This has always been a problem with republicans, they talk big game with all their slogans "if we didn't have illegal problem then health costs come down so elect me to fix it" Gets into office and "well we can't really fix illegal problem but hey I can cut the budget for Medicaid so the federal govt will save some money to spend on other pork projects or hey just so i can say I saved costs. "  great right?  A trump style deal?

 

My taxes pay for NIH research.  The government isn't always the best administrator.  Maybe it's not research I care a lick about.  Or maybe they aren't spending my money the right way.  Maybe there needed to be some cuts.

NIH has scientists doing important research but there is intramural and extramural programs.   The vast majority of funding for the best academic researchers out there in all kinds of academic institutions (not govt) is from NIH grants. Because the budget is large enough to support all that, including specifically the most important work and it is highly competitive to get one of those grants.   

There are other sources of funding for basic research but they are miniscule compared to govt grants.

People will donate to medical research.  If they can donate to the creation of the man romper...they will donate to anything.

But not in the amount that is needed to support the ecosystem and fuel medical advances, not the huge amount doled out by NIH.   

I give Zuckerberg and his wife credit because they stared an initiative like this to fund specific scientists and research projects with their own riches.  (Also competitive to get obviously).  But there aren't enough among the wealthiest doing stuff like that.  And so the argument that If we defund NIH now, private wealthy ppl will step in to fill the void collectively,  is a fallacy because if they are capable of doing it now, why aren't they?   

Now do you really believe that if we cut funding to NIH or medicaid your tax bill will go down?  I don't see these things as tied and I see the major benefit going to those in highest tax bracket even if that did happen.   

Ie me getting a couple hundred dollars check cut to me by George w bush hardly scratched the surface of my huge tax bill and what was the good result from that if we cut healthough care to people who need it in order to cut that check?

[nessuno]

Maybe these agencies will be driven to achieve greater efficiency and to eliminate waste.
That sums it up for me.
I am not against people who need medicaid receiving medicaid.  But this country is out of whack.  Especially, the healthcare system.

No problem will be fixed over night.  No wall building....
And no problem will be fixed unless the Republicans grow a backbone.
Whatever you think about Donald Trump.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think the priorities are messed up.  Republicans have no problem running up the debt on military adventures and illegals but first thing they want to cut is treatment to Americans who need it.

[nessuno]

I think the priorities are messed up.  Republicans have no problem running up the debt on military adventures and illegals but first thing they want to cut is treatment to Americans who need it.

Illegals receive the same healthcare, sometimes better, than many hospitalized Americans.
That is a lot of money that can be spent on Americans citizens.
Priorities are messed up.

[angryChineseKahanist]

Lol you don't have to give anyone your dna.

Except your wife...

Uh-huh...
Now I'm uncomfortable brother.